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Sethur posted:From what I've seen and read (which admittedly extremely little) Kendo seems very steeped in rules and tradition over being an effective fighting style. Now obviously it doesn't need to be seeing as how as you've said it's not applicable in any situation outside of the confines of the sport, but could you give some background on how Kendo developed out of (I'd presume) a system for real combat into the very restricted sport it seems to me to be today? To be honest I know little about the actual history/development of Kendo. I think basically after samurai weren't allowed to kill anyone anymore they started getting more involved in zen, since there wasn't anything else to do. Since they didn't need to know a ton of moves anymore, swordsmanship got more and more paired down into what became seen as the core principles and movements. Basically, most of the techniques that no one uses anymore came from the few basic moves practiced now. The bamboo swords and armor came about because people were tired of being mauled/accidentally killed with wooden swords while trying to practice. There's a huge philosophical component to Kendo, but how much you pay attention or care about it is up to the individual. Old Japanese senseis - Kendo's all about the inner focus and strength, etc. High school, college, or young adult - Kendo's about competing and beating up some bitches. As for the - relatively limited - techniques that exist today, they're basically codified and you can't stray outside of them if you want to be successful. Kendo's not really about being creative, it's about being better than the other guy at doing the same things. Some people, especially if they come from something like grappling, are gonna feel stifled but that's just how it is. I dunno, I rambled but does that answer your question at all? Basically in modern Kendo there are very specific ways to do everything and I can explain what those ways are and the reasoning behind them if you have anything specific. kimbo305 posted:Is or is not Iaido an ever more rarefied art compared to Kendo? That conversation never really got fleshed out in the old thread. Iaido rules but is hard to find even in Japan - there have been people I've asked who don't even know what iaido is. It is incredibly ritualized because, as tarepanda said, it is entirely individual kata. Some of them are pretty cool and have some fun scenarios (like pushing your way through a crowd of people to slice some dude, or being in a totally dark room and hitting the floor to freak your opponent out, or crawling under a table to get to a guy). There are competitions but it's basically just judging who has the best form. And yeah, guys who are really good at iaido can be really frightening. They can put themselves in this mindset like 'I'm about to gut some people' and you can see it on their face. This is getting really long, but I guess as a final thought, kendo and iaido may seem esoteric and impractical, and the actual physical techniques are, but the spirit of them is only as rarefied as you make it. Some people don't give a poo poo about the metaphysical stuff, but there's lots of stuff you practice and have to pay attention to in kendo and iaido that are perfectly applicable to the rest of life.
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May 16, 2011 10:46
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z0331 posted:swordsmanship got more and more pared down into what became seen as the core principles and movements . . . There's a huge philosophical component to Kendo, but how much you pay attention or care about it is up to the individual. Old Japanese senseis - Kendo's all about the inner focus and strength, etc. High school, college, or young adult - Kendo's about competing and beating up some bitches. This is totally true. Kendo has a few waza, but the most important ones are the kihon waza -- striking the basic scoring areas. Kendo's most important philosophy is also an incredibly Japanese/Confucian one: the idea that you can, through constant and diligent (correct) practice, perfect yourself day by day. That's why you get people who do men-uchi five thousand times a day, every day... and sure enough, they get better. z0331 posted:Iaido rules but is hard to find even in Japan - there have been people I've asked who don't even know what iaido is. 100% true. I almost feel like there are more iaidoka/schools outside of Japan than there are in Japan, just because iaido has more of a fetishistic following outside of Japan for various reasons. Even the name itself is "fake," it's made up from kanji 居 (being) 合 (joining, complementing), and 道 (way). I've written it before and had Japanese people say "What the hell is this?" because they had never seen or heard of iaido. Iaido itself is relatively modern and the politics of it are incredibly complex. This is not to suggest that it's a fake/mystical/bullshido martial art, just that it's all very much modern and refined from older traditions, so it doesn't really have its own yet. What we call iaido now is really a hodgepodge of refined basic kata from older schools of bujutsu/iaijutsu. The All Japan Kendo Federation (AJKF or Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei) governs kendo, iaido, and jodo (staff). When they took over iaido, they also codified it using a lot of stuff, but mostly Eishin kata. For example, the first iaido kata, shou hattou, is found in pretty much every single school, because it's just incredibly basic. From a seated position, draw horizontally, rebalance, cut vertically, swipe your sword over your head and down while maintaining situational awareness before you sheath. Every school has this and they're all pretty much identical, except for a few details about "correctness." While iaido itself is governed by the AJKF, there are tons of older schools still surviving; I studied Oomori-ryuu, but one of the largest schools is Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryuu (MJER). The two are very closely related. There are also a ton of other schools with varying legitimacy and of course, tangled family trees. It's not all that uncommon for someone to study seitei iaido (AJKF's standard) alongside a traditional school. It's also not terribly uncommon for people to cross-train inside AJKF; for example, my sensei is 7-dan kendo, 5-dan iaido, 6-dan jodo. I know many who are 5-3-1 or 5-2-2. There are common elements that link all three arts and they're all very helpful for each other. I didn't mean to steal this from you, z0331, but I loving love kendo and I had the privilege to train with a high-ranked teacher who was (and is) pretty involved with prefectural AJKF politics, so I know more about that side of things that most people really care about. I loving love kendo. Edit: One of the things I love about kendo is the life philosophy that my teacher distills it down to: Do it, do it to the best of your ability, and do it with all of your heart. Consider the consequences, but don't worry about them. Or, more simply... As he always says, "Go straight, live straight." Edit: Related, the judo concept of sutemi. tarepanda fucked around with this message at 14:03 on May 16, 2011 |
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May 16, 2011 11:08
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tarepanda posted:That's why you get people who do men-uchi five thousand times a day, every day... and sure enough, they get better. I think one of the most fascinating parts of kendo is that you really can actually practice exactly one technique over and over and over, and you can get better at everything. It isn't just some 'ancient asian mystic secret', either. If you do basic men (head) strike, and only that, all the time, and keep improving it, you will actually get better at kendo. Of course most people would go insane. quote:I didn't mean to steal this from you, z0331, but I loving love kendo and I had the privilege to train with a high-ranked teacher who was (and is) pretty involved with prefectural AJKF politics, so I know more about that side of things that most people really care about. It's totally cool - I'm glad to see someone else on the boards into kendo. To be honest I'm usually slightly hesitant to post in the martial arts threads since most of the focus is on MMA and similar things. What rank are you? I'm 2dan in kendo, although all the Japanese senseis I've talked to have said I could pass 3dan no problem. I'm 3kyu in iaido  Did it in college for a couple years but haven't in a long time. I went through phases of loving it and hating it. Wish I could pick it back up.Edit: Also, are you in Japan?
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May 16, 2011 11:24
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In Japan. I'm 1-dan kendo, my sensei was constantly encouraging me to take my 2-dan shinsa and had money problems and had to move. The shinsa costs around 20000 yen, which is absolutely ridiculous, and the 3-dan shinsa costs even more. I'm terrible in shiai, but I don't really care about the sports aspect... I'd be happy with two hours of kihon three days a week with maybe 30 minutes of shiai-geiko every day. That's basically what my old training session was like when I lived near the dojo. I'm definitely going back regularly once I get my car this July.
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May 16, 2011 11:36
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Wow and I thought judoposting was incomprehensible.
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May 16, 2011 12:33
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Well, now you know how I feel when I read people discussing grappling.
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May 16, 2011 13:07
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I found that whole discussion really interesting.
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May 16, 2011 14:00
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Well I (and, it seems, tarepanda) have no problem writing walls of text about kendo cause I love it, so any questions, let me know. 
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May 16, 2011 14:01
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z0331 posted:If you do basic men (head) strike, and only that, all the time, and keep improving it, you will actually get better at kendo. Of course most people would go insane. I tried this for about a month, 200 a day, and I pretty much did go insane and lose all of the skin on my hands. It was one of the reasons I switched to a koban-gata dobari shinai: the balance was much better for what I do (kote-men) and since I have short fingers, a koban-gata is much easier to hold properly than a big, fat, round tsuka. And definitely, question away. z0331, are you in Japan?
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May 16, 2011 14:06
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Can you give any idea as to the kinds of techniques that were removed? I'm curious as to what kind of stuff was removed and how necessary it was. Also, while I don't plan on picking a martial art up until I'm happy with where I am running, I'd like to start doing stretches now to improve my general flexability. Can anyone link me to a good set of stretches I can do at home for this to go with my running?
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May 16, 2011 14:19
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tarepanda posted:I tried this for about a month, 200 a day, and I pretty much did go insane and lose all of the skin on my hands. It was one of the reasons I switched to a koban-gata dobari shinai: the balance was much better for what I do (kote-men) and since I have short fingers, a koban-gata is much easier to hold properly than a big, fat, round tsuka. Yup, I'm actually up in Miyagi about as close as you could want to get to the earthquake center. Luckily we're far enough from the coast that no water reached us but we're about 30 minutes from areas that weren't so lucky. Among other things, unfortunately, one of the places where I practice (and the only place where I could practice with adults) was pretty severely damaged so no one case use it for the foreseeable future. From now on it's gonna be with high school clubs only. I'm a little surprised you had to switch to dobari since I thought that was pretty much what everyone used. Actually, a few days ago a sensei gave me a nice koto shinai as a gift which was pretty awesome. He recommended it as being easy to use, though I haven't had a chance yet. I used to keep thinking I liked thicker handles, but now I'm drifting back towards thinner. My hands would get tired too quickly. I have complete poo poo for forearm endurance anyway since absolutely nowhere I practice does suburi or anything. I bought a one-hand suburi bokuto to use on my own but I'm not exactly consistent... I love the oval handles but don't usually feel like paying for one.
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May 16, 2011 14:20
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Jose posted:Can you give any idea as to the kinds of techniques that were removed? I'm curious as to what kind of stuff was removed and how necessary it was. Well, I guess what I was thinking of was that if anyone tried to do kendo in a real fight they'd be dead pretty quickly, so there were probably other techniques and maneuvers that they used but that aren't necessary in kendo. At the very least stuff like horizontal slashes that you can see in iaido but not kendo (doh is different). Actually, a few decades ago kendo had some stuff you don't see now like leg sweeps and takedowns. You can't do that anymore. You can see it, along with some good old-fashioned family racism, here.
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May 16, 2011 14:23
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z0331 posted:Yup, I'm actually up in Miyagi about as close as you could want to get to the earthquake center. Luckily we're far enough from the coast that no water reached us but we're about 30 minutes from areas that weren't so lucky. Wow, I'm glad you're okay. z0331 posted:I love the oval handles but don't usually feel like paying for one. Yeah... I bought a few madake koban-gata shinai when they were on sale at Tozando. As much as I'd like to go local, it's really hard to beat Tozando. Jose posted:Can you give any idea as to the kinds of techniques that were removed? I'm curious as to what kind of stuff was removed and how necessary it was. Oh, tons of stuff. For example, while the modern shinai has a "back" denoted by a piece of string (the "tsuru"), it really doesn't have a blade. While kendo maintains some parries (harai-waza [sweeping techniques], to an extent maki-waza [wrapping techniques] and kaeshi-waza [deflecting/returning techniques]), it's also missing a lot of parries/counterstrikes for, say, thrusts. The head tends to be the primary target, so a lot of waza (at least, the ones practiced) focus on parrying head strikes. Many people say that kendo's current mentality of putting everything into an attack comes from old warrior mentality of the same, winning with one strike rather than having a protracted battle... but I really think that this came about also due to the fact that people wouldn't be mortally injured if they screwed up, so you'd have less student attrition due to learning. So of course, there's more of a focus in going straight for the target despite the opponent, say, trying to aim for your torso. The bladeless nature of the shinai also encourages things like my favorite technique: kote-men, which is a successive wrist-head strike. I can't imagine doing kote-men on an armored man while using a real sword; I'd probably just absolutely destroy the sword against armor. Even against an unarmored opponent, the technique would be somewhat impractical due to momentum, I think. Additionally, if you look at older schools of kendo, or old videos, you can see that they used to have what looks like judo attacks; you could disrupt the enemy's balance and then strike with your sword, or vice-versa. There's absolutely none of that in kendo today. Only four scoring zones, none of them near the legs. As you can imagine, that takes out a lot of techniques. Kendo maintains two general-use guard stances: middle (chuudan) and high (joudan), which are used in tournament play regularly. High guard is typically a very aggressive stance, since it leaves your entire torso open for scoring. There are three others that are never used, though: hassou (blade along the jaw), gedan (low guard), and wakigamae (sideways, blade down and hidden by legs). Gedan was meant for fighting naginata, but since kendo is always shinai-on-shinai, it's useless. Also, since kendo is always fought in a level square, there's no high ground to hold, which takes away the other purpose of gedan. Hassou is impractical with a men and leaves your scoring areas almost entirely open (excepting your neck) and wakigamae isn't particularly useful either. Basically everything that can't be used in the sport has either been culled or ignored in modern-day practice, though some of this is rectified with the kendo kata, which use bokuto and simulate actual sword practice with wooden blades. All of the guard stances are used in kata. Edit: Went back and cleaned up some of the Japanese with translations to make it more accessible for non-kendoka. One other note: some things are horribly, horribly exaggerated in kendo, like fumikomi. The thing that really makes kendo stand out is how loud the stomps are due to body weight shifting; it's not actually people stomping, it's people moving all of their body weight, starting from their stomach, forward onto another foot. It's incredibly important to kendo, but as it's done, it's really not practical for actual combat. We don't do it at all in kata, for example... and it doesn't really show up in iaido as such, either. But we do have proper grip when striking (ideally), which helps carry a blade through a target; people who do only iaido can have problems with that and also with situational awareness, having never faced a real opponent. tarepanda fucked around with this message at 14:43 on May 16, 2011 |
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May 16, 2011 14:35
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Jose posted:Also, while I don't plan on picking a martial art up until I'm happy with where I am running, I'd like to start doing stretches now to improve my general flexability. Don't do this, I told myself the same thing before starting BJJ and put it off for a year. Nothing gets you in better shape for _________ than doing _________ was what people here were basically telling me here. The first few weeks might suck a bit, but you'll find yourself adjusting really quickly. Just go!
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May 16, 2011 14:50
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Part of it is due to me finishing uni in a bit over a month so I'd start and then be moving back home straight away. I also want to achieve my goal with running anyway so I'd rather focus on that first.
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May 16, 2011 15:01
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Does anybody else have difficulty explaining combat sports to those who aren't into them? That's why I try to avoid telling people I train BJJ and boxing because other guys automatically think I'm trying to be a bad rear end. I have to explain to them its just a fun hobby to do that keeps you fit, I dont have any delusions about fighting in the UFC etc. etc.
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May 16, 2011 15:23
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Skrotum posted:Does anybody else have difficulty explaining combat sports to those who aren't into them? That's why I try to avoid telling people I train BJJ and boxing because other guys automatically think I'm trying to be a bad rear end. I have to explain to them its just a fun hobby to do that keeps you fit, I dont have any delusions about fighting in the UFC etc. etc. Haha yes, I don't often even try, martial arts must be the most misunderstood way of staying in shape and bad for your average coffee table discourse. I never mention my hobbies, unless I personally know everyone who is in listening range. Especially the male gender of the species who've had more than three pints should be avoided at all costs - it causes their IQ to become halved and results in rants about how hardass their Muay Thai training (or whatever) used to be and other types of uncomfortable posturing. I'm not sure about the exact psychology affecting the responses therein, but I suspect it has something to do with insecure alpha-male (or beta-male) status. Thus, I only talk about training with my friends who either train and when nobody else is around, or people whom I know well enough not to get into a paroxysms of "tough" and various other show offs. I also tell people I train in aerobics and gymnastics if someone asks really hard. We used to go for a drink to one of our locals with a friend after rolling sessions to discuss things over, and someone overhearing us was surprisingly often bothersome, neither of us having an inclination to talk about which martial art is the best or could someone 200 pounds overweight become "fit" for the summer without doing any training or putting any work into it. So when someone barreled into our space I'd tell them I'm doing bodypump and aerobic wearing a funky leotard with neon colours (which is halfway true) or some poo poo. Men will look at you, contort their faces into various positions and leers which imply serious thinking, and then go away. Chicks? Never mind. I still haven't met a girl or a woman who is really bothered about someone going to a boxing class instead of cycling or lifting. [I still avoid the subject though.]
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May 16, 2011 15:49
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The only thing anybody I know ever says to me if talk turns to me training BJJ is "fighting is stupid and you should just get the police to help you if someone tries to fight you." The idea of it being a sport, or fun, is completely alien and incomprehensible to them. I just call it "the gym" to avoid getting sucked into the endless cycle of "it's dumb" -> "I don't really care, it's fun" -> "You're stupid" -> Repeat. I also make a point of trying to shut down or at least stay away from any conversation about it in public and especially around alcohol. I always friends to keep it quiet if they're discussing it because I've got a bit of a concern about what will happen if some giant shaved gorilla juicehead with 12 beers under his belt hears someone say "how is your <fighting> going?" It's especially worrying because most of my friends only mention it when they're taking the piss and asking me dumb poo poo like "could you beat Mike Tyson?"
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May 16, 2011 16:14
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I wrestle. Jiu-jitsu is some esoteric foreign word that implies that I'm training to be a cage fighter or a weeaboo in most peoples minds, so I tell people I wrestle. I thik that's changing though. As MMA gets more popular people seem to understand that Jiu-jitsu and MMA are different things, and anybody with wrestling experience asks me who I wrestle for and gets the longer answer.
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May 16, 2011 16:37
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Skrotum posted:Does anybody else have difficulty explaining combat sports to those who aren't into them? That's why I try to avoid telling people I train BJJ and boxing because other guys automatically think I'm trying to be a bad rear end. I have to explain to them its just a fun hobby to do that keeps you fit, I dont have any delusions about fighting in the UFC etc. etc. I swear to god that the next person to make a "Judo Chop" joke when they hear I do Judo is getting Osoto-ed into the carpet.
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May 16, 2011 16:44
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Most of my friends know I train and still don't get why as I'm not a particularly violent or aggressive, this obviously meant alot of joking around and drunk friends throwing light punches at me or trying to wrestle me I just take it with a grain of salt... I was hoping once I the first tournament fight that I won got out on youtube they'd give it a rest.... nope now they all think they'd be awesome at MMA because I've managed to do it. They don't get how much work goes into training so I always make sure to offer them the opportunity to come training with me .......no one has taken me up on it yet (which is a shame as I get free private lesson time for introducing new students) For people that don't know me I generally avoid mentioning it especially around booze, because there's always the chance that ther'es that 1 guy who wants to have a go.
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May 16, 2011 17:06
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Let's say there were a hypothetical sport that: - was scored electrically like fencing - gave points for mere contact - but allowed 100% hard contact, so the sport would have to be contested with at least some padding - had a scoring of the entire body - allowed points with the leading edge (or strip) of a blade/shinai What advantages/deficiencies would the following practitioners have? - fencer - kendoka - traditional FMA practicioner (from what I understand, sparring is done with lots of padding) - Dog Brothers style FMA fighter (these guys spar with just a fencing helmet and hockey gloves) How much would things change if the scoring zone were limited to above the knee? Above the waist?
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May 16, 2011 17:09
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Haha I see I'm not the only one that avoids talking about my hobby. It kind of sucks because if I was into music or golf or, poo poo, ballroom dancing, it would be easier to deal with than trying to explain bjj and the whole martial arts scene.kimbo305 posted:if it is only by contact and anywhere on the body: then I think an FMA/dog bro. guy with long sticks would be the best since they can swing those fuckers about 10 times a second and have two hands to use. I could see a fencer doing well too, because they can lunge like 2 body lengths extremely quickly, which would be hard to defend. Kendo, I think, would be screwed unless you found a way to reward more points for a good slice than a stab or stick hit. On the basis that an opponent may survive a good stick beating, maybe a stabbing or two, but they are drat sure dead if you chop off an arm or split their torso. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 17:45 on May 16, 2011 |
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May 16, 2011 17:39
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awkward_turtle posted:I wrestle. Jiu-jitsu is some esoteric foreign word that implies that I'm training to be a cage fighter or a weeaboo in most peoples minds, so I tell people I wrestle. I thik that's changing though. As MMA gets more popular people seem to understand that Jiu-jitsu and MMA are different things, and anybody with wrestling experience asks me who I wrestle for and gets the longer answer. This is what I say when people ask what sambo is. I just say it's a Russian sport that's kind of like wrestling. I don't ever mention that I train MMA or striking, because people will almost always interpret that as you trying to act tough or that you are a violent person.
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May 16, 2011 19:57
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I'd say fencing, especially épée, would do really good. Ability to quickly recover from a botched attack and relatively light strikes with electrical scoring sounds like a winning combination. I think FMA practicioner would go a little too hard and a little too slow for the fencer, though they probably could put on pressure that would really wreck the fencers play. Kendokas would be screwed, yeah, it's a little too limited. A thrust to the throat and bunch of vertical strikes in slightly varying angles. Can't recover quickly enough, if the first strike doesn't hit he's a goner. I could see strengths of kendo being on the mental side but that'd be up to individual guys instead of kendo as a whole. Guess this sport would consist mainly of quick fencers, counter-attacking or really aggressive FMA guys and couple really good kendokas. Should be noted that I've done some kendo, very little fencing and am probably mostly wrong about what I think FMA is like so take it all as you will.
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May 16, 2011 20:20
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The mystery of mysteries about martial arts is that people who spend their free time practicing one, from wrestling to boxing to Aikido are usually by far less violent or prone to having fits of physical rage as opposed to those who do not. This is anecdotal in the sense it is my experience only but I have to say most people I know - and who train something - almost singularly agree. Unfortunately, and this is why it is a mystery in the first place, those who never engage in such activities often take it to be the opposite. Training anything with any consistency quickly forces you to accept to the fact your abilities are somewhat limited and it's not a good idea to "fight" anyone, and even if you have a mean streak and if you are superbly talented, offers a legal and easy way to blow of steam and causes you to respect other people (during training), in this way making angry people more pleasant and more respectful towards others in general. (Almost all of the shitheads who try to practice martial arts because they want to beat people up quit in no time, because they get beat up so much themselves and dislike it or are doing the wrong thing for various other reasons.) This mistake in thought is widely spread and not limited to your regular office worker. I once had an interesting conversation with a shrink, or a specialist on psychiatry if you will, a doctor with many decrees, who also suffered of this prejudice. Because I have as a sport trained punching at people she immediately concluded the moment I go "nuts" I would be in danger of assaulting others by utilizing my learned skills instead of just kicking a chair or saying something in an angry tone of voice. (We have good medical care at work and go through these things for free). It was not easy to persuade her to understand that exactly because I have practiced applying force I understand the consequences far better than someone who has not, and therefore will avoid it to the extreme, even when under duress or agitated to an extreme.
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May 16, 2011 21:16
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Yeah I also usually don't talk about training MMA, because the couple times I did it came over as CAGEFIGHTING so I just say boxing and wrestling and people understand what it is without seeing bloodsport infront of their inner eye.
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May 16, 2011 21:38
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kimbo305 posted:Let's say there were a hypothetical sport that: If scoring is just based on a touch, fencing would probably have a huge edge... otherwise, kendo would probably get points from critical areas (severed limbs, head strikes) and also from power in the strike. No clue about FMA. I'm not really sure where you're going with this thought experiment, though... it really sounds like "What's better: fencing, kendo, or FMA?"
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May 16, 2011 23:35
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Mechafunkzilla posted:This is what I say when people ask what sambo is. I just say it's a Russian sport that's kind of like wrestling. I don't ever mention that I train MMA or striking, because people will almost always interpret that as you trying to act tough or that you are a violent person. I should start doing this as well whenever i am around drunk people. I'm covered in bruises from this weekend because people wanted to play wrestle and theory craft about who would win in a fight between me and that person. From now on I'm practicing Yoga when someone asks.
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May 17, 2011 00:29
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Ligur posted:The mystery of mysteries about martial arts is that people who spend their free time practicing one, from wrestling to boxing to Aikido are usually by far less violent or prone to having fits of physical rage as opposed to those who do not. This is anecdotal in the sense it is my experience only but I have to say most people I know - and who train something - almost singularly agree. half of my training partners get into fights regularly i don't know any other people with a soft spot for random brawls
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May 17, 2011 00:35
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Fencers would dominate your theoretical sport, because fencing is all about dancing around at long range and tapping each other in annoying places, though most of the attacks wouldn't translate into doing any actual damage in a real swordfight. I hate myself for typing the words "real swordfight" on the internet. edit: also no disrespect to fencing, I fenced for five years myself. 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 00:57 on May 17, 2011 |
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May 17, 2011 00:50
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Paul Pot posted:half of my training partners get into fights regularly Well crap, they are some crazy motherfuckers, but as I said it's anecdotal - my experience only. That is what I've seen and who've I met. I don't know anyone who regularly get into fights and those who train anything at all want to get into ones even less than those who don't. edit: I mean, poo poo, what kind of people do you hang around with  I have to admit I'm all for random brawling, much as I'm all for open borders and other stuff which makes people choke on their tongue but I also understand that in general my ideas don't work and are not really that good for your average guy or girl. That's one reason I won't go around the town trying to get into random brawls. After the legal side of it. 02-6611-0142-1 posted:Fencers would dominate your theoretical sport, because fencing is all about dancing around at long range and tapping each other in annoying places, though most of the attacks wouldn't translate into doing any actual damage in a real... fight. That would be a good description of Savate 
Ligur fucked around with this message at 01:10 on May 17, 2011 |
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May 17, 2011 00:57
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Back in the day the Japanese government had to tell samurai to quit challenging Europeans to duels cause they were all getting killed.
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May 17, 2011 02:04
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z0331 posted:Back in the day the Japanese government had to tell samurai to quit challenging Europeans to duels cause they were all getting killed. Did this actually happen because it sounds so stereotypically Japanese
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May 17, 2011 02:06
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Epee fencing give you excellent footwork, distance, and timing for any type of striking.
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May 17, 2011 02:17
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mewse posted:Did this actually happen because it sounds so stereotypically Japanese Yeah I'm not going to discount this, but it just sounds very very different to everything else I've heard. I recall the samurai were more or less told to quit dicking around at the end of the warring states period. (1600s) Plus there was pretty heavy fines and punishment for provoking any kind of fights. The government wanted to avoid blood feuds and the like. I have a hard time imagining this wouldn't apply to foreigners, since Admiral Perry pretty much 'opened' Japan by threatening to shell the crap out of them.
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May 17, 2011 02:20
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The time periods are completely different... if samurai were told to stop dueling around the end of the Sengoku era, that would be in the 1600s -- but Europeans weren't walking around in Japan until after the middle of the 1800s, which makes the whole "samurai were losing to Europeans so dueling was abolished" thing sound like crap.
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May 17, 2011 02:27
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tarepanda posted:The time periods are completely different... if samurai were told to stop dueling around the end of the Sengoku era, that would be in the 1600s -- but Europeans weren't walking around in Japan until after the middle of the 1800s, which makes the whole "samurai were losing to Europeans so dueling was abolished" thing sound like crap. I know, but I meant the point that from the 1600s to the 1850s, the samurai were under a pretty scrutinized watch. 1850s to 1900 is a questionable time period for me. I could certainly imagine them losing and getting their asses handed to them. But killed, seems like a stretch. Senor P. fucked around with this message at 02:38 on May 17, 2011 |
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May 17, 2011 02:32
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Eh fair enough. Just another thing I heard that I didn't particularly care enough to verify. Anyway the point is more that fencing versus something like kendo is stupid to compare since they're so different, but when you really think about the strengths of each the fencer would win pretty easily depending on the rules set up.
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May 17, 2011 02:36
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Senor P. posted:1850s to 1900 is a questionable time period for me. I could certainly imagine them losing and getting their asses handed to them. But killed, seems like a stretch. European duels were generally to the death weren't they?
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May 17, 2011 02:42
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