The NEW A/T Martial Arts Thread: Aikido to Zoo-jitsu

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > The NEW A/T Martial Arts Thread: Aikido to Zoo-jitsu

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

Internetjack posted:

A few comments on Aikido; I trained in it for four years back in my college days. It was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

I like how Aikido was classified in the OP, a performance discipline.

In four years, training 2-3 days a week, I never learned to be an rear end-kicking machine; nor did I ever want to be one.
What I did learn though was more of a philosophy, a way of being and walking through life. There was plenty of cool poo poo and exercise too.

What I learned was breathing, walking, being calm in mind and body, relaxing, and facing conflict with love in your heart. These were lessons I could take off the mat, into my every day life. These are lessons that have served me in work, friendships, and confrontations for the last 16 years. That is why I love Aikido. I still do my turning exercises in the living room to this day.

This is extremely well said. I've been doing Aikido for about 5 years and this is exactly what I've gotten out of it and why I continue to train. And it's nice to see a little Aikido love in this thread.

# ¿ May 4, 2011 04:01

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 00:16

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

Xguard86 posted:

These people are usually so stuck in their own delusion that you can't really do anything for them, just piss each other off. Ironically, I take a page from the Aikido playbook and just gently parry the issue.

Even if you beat him up, the standard line is: "well aikido has a steep learning curve but once I "get it" in 10 years, you won't be able to touch me". Which, if you apply any logical thought, is insane. There is no other skill on earth where you mystically jump from terrible to mastery, windmills do not work that way. Still, that is what he will claim.

Sorry if I am making GBS threads on any aikidoka, it's not a bad MA but many of the people involved in it are awful or abrasively delusional.

I'm an aikidoka and I agree with you. I've heard the learning curve argument and the "our moves are too dangerous to spar" argument plenty of times and I don't buy it (fortunately not from the people I practice with, though). It seems especially goofy to claim that about aikido, which is more an art about not fighting. One of its main focuses is to use awareness and deflection to diffuse violent situations or keep them from happening in the first place.

I don't see how you can argue your martial art is the end all and be all in a fight, but never fight or spar in training. That aside, claiming that about any martial art is pretty ridiculous. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

# ¿ May 5, 2011 21:23

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

Taratang posted:

Yeah those GB rules aren't strictly adhered to in all schools, at least outside of the US.

At GB Birmingham in the UK you can wear pretty much whatever you want - one of the brown belts trains almost exclusively in sesame street T-shirts for no gi.

My school has had signs up about needing GB gis for a while now, but they don't seem to enforce it. Certainly they wouldn't enforce it for someone just visiting briefly.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2011 12:51

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

AlteredAtronach posted:

Can anyone recommend any BJJ schools in hawaii? I'm just starting out with no grappling experience beyond high school wrestling. Basically all I've found so far is Egan Inoue's place, a Relson Gracie school, and (not surprisingly) a Gracie Barra academy.

I don't know how good it is, but BJ Penn has a place in Hilo. http://www.penntrainingandfitness.com

# ¿ Jul 7, 2011 20:52

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

Xguard86 posted:

Aiki jiu-jitsu is not a thing, you are thinking of Aiki-jitsu which is, basically, the ancestor style of Aikido.

There are a ton of Aikido schools with their own slight variations and beliefs, I would hit up wikipedia and try to get a grasp on the major versions.

The only advantage an Aikidoka has moving to Bjj is that they at least understand the theory of martial arts. Going with the flow, balance/balance breaking, posture, angles all that stuff. Wrestlers and Judoka also know this, but have practical skills and experience to boot.

Also Aikidoka often try their wristlock shennanigans and tap white belts, but anyone blue or above crushes that bullshit.

Many people I've seen come over from Aikido have been disturbingly out of shape for someone that does a physical activity and usually either injury prone or living with some kind of chronic pain. I don't know if it's the Aikido or what, but I would not recommend Aikido if you want to cross train bjj. Judo/Bjj is a much better combo.

I'm a bit late to this discussion, but I've been doing Aikido for 5+ years, dabbled in kyokushin karate for a bit a few years back, and just started learning BJJ about 6 months ago. I would agree that there's not a whole lot from Aikido that transfers over to BJJ. About the only things I've found useful are:

Both arts use similar hip throws
Being comfortable falling. My BJJ school does not teach how to fall or be hip thrown and land correctly and safely. I'm glad I already knew this from Aikido
How to relax when sparring and go with the flow
That the best way to learn technique is to learn the correct form/movement, rather than through muscle/power
Observation - how to observe the nuances of what the instructor is doing when demonstrating

Interestingly, I think the small amount of karate I did and the BJJ are really complimenting my Aikido nicely. Enough so that I agree with Xguard86 and others when they say that Aikido may be best for others with other martial arts experience. I really like how BJJ has that element of human chess, with many options from any given position or action. Aikido gets to that eventually, but free technique and changing technique typically aren't focused on until a very advanced level (in my school, changing technique is a 4th-degree black belt requirement).

zalmoxes posted:

This is kind of true, but it has more to do with the individual then the art. Because there's no sparring, it attracts the middle aged, office worker types who are just looking to say they do something 3 times a week without really pushing themselves. As someone who is making an effort to improve, having to train with people like that is really annoying and after a while you learn to avoid them. Aikido allows you to train as hard as you're able or be a lazy gently caress who spends 10 years practicing and makes no improvement.

As someone who is young and physically able I feel like there is a crisis within the aikido community. Aikido became popular with the post vietnam generation when it was introduced in the US by Ueshiba's students. They themselves were in their prime and so were their students. Today there are a lot of good aikidoka that while can teach you a lot about the art, are not necessarily up to a rigorous physical workout, and there are very few young people who choose to practice.

I agree completely with this and while I train at a good school with mostly fantastic instructors, it is hard to find training partners who stick with Aikido who train like this. I even find myself falling into the more laid-back type of training from time-to-time on days when I'm tired.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2011 04:32

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

My schedule is usually:

Monday: 1 hour lifting, 90 minutes Aikido
Tuesday: Nothing
Wednesday: BJJ 1 hour
Thursday: 1 hour meditation, 1 hour lifting, 2 hours Aikido
Friday: 1 hour cardio; BJJ is adding a class so may switch to that occasionally
Saturday/Sunday: 60-90 minute run, 1 or 2 hours BJJ class, 1 hour lifting, occasional 2 hour bike (varies based on weekend schedule)

# ¿ Oct 14, 2011 17:09

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

Omglosser posted:

A Chicago suburb is where I reside. Whole lotta bar rats. I dunno, maybe it's just a weird thing with this upcoming 23-year-old generation around here. Plus it's not fair to call out people who wear TapouT gear, they could just genuinely love the sport, or just be silly poseurs who think they look cool.

Interesting. I live in Chicago and haven't noticed any such attitude, although I am more than a decade past being a 23-year-old and wouldn't dream of wearing TapouT gear. Which suburb out of curiosity, since I grew up in one?

# ¿ Mar 12, 2012 20:13

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

I'm glad my school doesn't do that poo poo. Got handed a BJJ blue belt tonight. Having mixed feelings about it. I have been a white belt for about a year and a half, which is longer than about any other student at my school. I've definitely improved a ton, but still get bested by most of the other higher whites and about all the blues. Still pretty excited to finally be wearing the blue, though!

# ¿ Jul 19, 2012 05:19

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

HondaCivet posted:

I quit my BJJ gym yesterday. It was creeping up on me for awhile but it finally hit me that I didn't like going to class. I'm trying to figure out if it was the gym and its teaching methods or if BJJ just isn't for me. So I wanted to ask you BJJ people how your gym handles beginners? Do you have a separate beginner class? How are those classes taught? My old gym had a beginner class but the lessons didn't really seem that much different than the ones in the main class. Many coaches in the gym have a philosophy that there isn't any real "beginner" or "advanced" material so I'm kind of wondering if that's why I felt so danged lost in my classes or if it's just because BJJ is loving hard.

Or maybe the old gym was just a bad culture fit? Has changing gyms ever made a big difference for you guys? I liked the old gym at first but after awhile I found most of the people there kind of closed off and unfriendly. Maybe that's a martial arts thing though, I don't know.

My BJJ gym is great with beginners and has separate beginner, mid-level, and advanced classes. The beginners' classes are very structured. The instructor shows three techniques per class and then you work each technique for 5-10 minutes with a partner. At the end, there is very structured rolling (e.g. start in side control, reset after the bottom person sweeps/submits or the top person mounts or gets back.) It also follows a set curriculum that after a set number of weeks covers most of the basics - how to do standard sweeps, triangles, arm bars, chokes, etc.

The mid-level classes start similarly but with only two techniques and about a half hour of what's usually free rolling at the end. I haven't been to any advanced classes yet. Everyone is super friendly too.

It's interesting you mention not liking going to class because I've been debating taking a break from aikido for the same reason. I've been doing aikido for 8+ years and still love it as an art, but I think I struggle with the unstructured nature of the classes, and not knowing what I'm going to get in each class until I get there (re: intensity, weapons vs. open hands, or level of training experience of classmates).

I'm a fairly uncoordinated non-athlete who is very slow to learn all this stuff, and while BJJ isn't easy, I wouldn't say it's any harder to learn than the other arts I've tried - boxing, karate, and aikido. It's just different.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2014 00:10

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

Kekekela posted:

I want to get a Gladiator but I'm worried that I'll be lighting my money on fire by somehow botching the process where you make the impression that they use to create the guard. How retarded would I have to be to gently caress that up? (I'm guessing its comparable to the process you use for an off the shelf boil-and-bite?)

If I recall correctly, it's slightly more complicated than that. They give you the material for two impressions, though. I hosed up my first one pretty royally but managed to do the second one fairly well.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2014 06:18

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

I'm confused by why they would have you take a test with full speed kicks if kicks aren't thrown at that speed in any of your classes and you aren't allowed to go tot he classes with sparring/full speed.

As a result of that policy, your best/only recourse to pass this test is to spar outside the gym because you aren't allowed to spar there? That sounds real safe - to start sparring without an instructor present.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2014 20:36

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

PlesantDilemma posted:

Thread,

I wanna get into bjj, but I'm trying to figure out the logistics of how to fit it into my schedule. Quick questions: how early should I eat before a class? Is it a big meal or keep it light? Do schools usually have a changing room or do I need to get the gi on before I arrive at class? Also, just generally, how do you guys fit a hour class into your day after work?

Thanks!

Every school will have a changing room and most (at least near me) also have showers. Walking around outside with a gi on would be weird. I recommend showering as soon as possible after class or using Defense wipes to avoid gross grappling skin diseases.

My school has classes in the evenings in the same area of my work. I have a bigger meal at lunch and try not to eat 60-90 minutes before class starts and then I'm fine.

# ¿ May 14, 2014 12:15

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

notwithoutmyanus posted:

I'm in Evanston, IL - so I don't know what martial arts that exist nearby can be considered legitimate, but BJJ does sound interesting.

http://ultfitev.com/new/Chicago_Jiu-Jitsu_BJJ_MMA_and_Fighting_Arts_at_Ultimate_Fitness_Club_Chicago.html - is this legitimate? This is almost down the street from me. Almost laughably it says "ninja warriors" and crossfit on their homepage, which isn't a good start - but the BJJ guy seems to be vaguely credentialed and/or has a bunch of "I've won a shitload of competitions!" kind of bio.

Also nearby appears to be http://www.newbreedchicago.com/ .

New Breed is a pretty good place. And a brown belt from my school in the city just started a BJJ place in Evanston. He's a good instructor: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Budan-Jiu-Jitsu/602849826432488

# ¿ May 17, 2014 10:18

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

notwithoutmyanus posted:

So I just got my rear end kicked at Fonsesca's BJJ class, and I have to say it's interesting.

I made cardinal mistakes: I ate <3 hours before I went in, which resulted in an unhappy stomach right at the end of the practice, and I played soccer this morning.

Meanwhile, the guy asked how I heard about it and I mentioned "someone on the something awful forums in the martial arts thread" had suggested it, but I didn't know if you wanted me to say your non-forum name or forum name or anything, eggplant. ( dont' even know your off-forum name if you want me to mention it).

I like the wrasslin aspects of it, but I didn't realize that there could potentially be quite a bit of striking as well. Also, my old wrestling instincts kicked in just ever so slightly so it was overall enjoyable.

However, what the gently caress? BJJ groundwork tears the poo poo out of the tops of the knuckles on my toes and my kneecaps as well. Do I need kneepads and/or socks to counter that? I like it though, but I don't think I know enough about BJJ to really understand the significance of some of the moves practiced tonight.

Glad you liked it!

Were you talking to Cliff? I barely know him but he taught some of my first classes with Team Redzovic in the city when I first started a couple years back. I think he's still affiliated with them so if you join, you can train at the city schools too. I bounce between all three, but mostly am at the downtown one. Evanston is pretty out of the way for me.

If you just do BJJ, there is no striking or sparring with striking, but the intro curriculum the Redzovics (and I assume Cliff) uses is designed to have a self defense element, so none of it relies on the gi and they cover basic protection from strikes. A lot of BJJers also do Muay Thai or MMA classes for striking. I discovered I'm even worse at that than BJJ, and I neither like punching people in the face or being punched in the face, so i don't.

I don't have issues with my knees/toes. Folks with bad knees usually wear knee pads and a few people wear wrestling shoes and/or wrestling headgear but I haven't tried 'em. I've never seen socks.

# ¿ May 21, 2014 04:01

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

I also love the Gladiator mouthguard. I haven't tried many gis, but I like this chart which I think I first saw on here. Has anyone seem something similar that's not 3 years old?

# ¿ Sep 11, 2014 01:15

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

My school used to be GB and went independent. Our instruction was really great (but that will vary school to school) and the 'required' gis were stiff, over-priced, and didn't hold up too well.

Overall, I found the curriculum pretty good, but it was kind of strange that the three techniques you work in any one class are often unrelated.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2014 03:01

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

A Wry Smile posted:

I think you're wise to avoid taking unnecessary risks when caught in unfamiliar territory. It's good that you want experience with bad positions, but you'll find that the tension/response is different when opponents actually get the better of you than if you were to just hang yourself out of sheer frustration, so it's probably not as beneficial to take those blind risks as it is to cultivate control, patience and timing. See if you can remind yourself when you freeze to just lightly test soundness of the opponent's structure and look for a weakness. Or maybe just have a 'go to' response to unfamiliar territory, like automatically looking to control the hands or something.

I like this advice with some aggression built in. I think I have a similar problem to Toll, in that when I'm rolling I tend to go into a pure defensive mode, waiting for them to make a move while just trying to stay alive/not tap. This has made me good at defending submissions and probably more difficult to tap than others at my level, but has resulted in my always finding myself on the bottom and never submitting anyone myself. I had to start taking more risks (any risks) to even have a chance to start working on submissions.

# ¿ Jan 16, 2015 21:35

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

Mechafunkzilla posted:

The best advice I can give is to make sure you're engaging your upper back and generating power by drawing your shoulder blades together, rather than trying to "squeeze" with your biceps and pecs.

One of my instructors had this same advice and it really changed the RNC for me. Not only did I feel like I was using no muscle, the tap comes immediately when I start pulling my shoulders back/together. Still haven't finished an RNC while rolling, though. My back control is horrendous.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 03:12

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

IT BEGINS posted:

Buy some headgear. $20 to never have cauliflower ear again.

Anyone have recommendations for BJJ headgear? I've been meaning to get some and now that we're working on takedowns this month, I think it's time to pull the trigger on that.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2016 23:06

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 00:16

Tambreet: Nov 28, 2006; Ninja Platypus; Muldoon

Mechafunkzilla posted:

I use the basic Adidas wrestling headgear and it's fine. You probably want one that has a chinstrap rather than a neckstrap so it doesn't get jammed in during chokes. Takedowns aren't what gently caress up your ears though, just fyi.

Now that we're doing takedowns we are also sparring from standing instead of knees which has included a lot more slapping/grasping near the ears going for underhooks and I think that's what causes it? I guess I don't really know, though.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2016 01:03

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