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the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
So...I took lessons with this guy for a while. Can anyone give me a BS to legitimate BA break down on that article?

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the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

CivilDisobedience posted:

I'm not clear on what you're disputing. How is it a stretch to say that knights were taught honor and chivalry in addition to their combat skills?

The accounting thing seems off topic, but I'll run with it: One of my close friends is a tax accountant. She enjoys her work because she gets to "catch the bad guys who are stealing from the rest of us through tax evasion." She practices accounting as an extension of her ethical philosophy.

So accounting is a white collar art?

I just don't understand man.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Novum posted:

I've always sort of held "martial art" as a term to describe a system of combat that has strong cultural significance and/or history. It's easier for me to identify Muay Thai as a martial art versus Boxing (let's say) just because of the massive cultural significance Muay Thai holds where it originated. From the outside perspective there is little discernible difference between the two. I mean, essentially they are both combat sports abiding by a specific rule set. The line is pretty blurry, but that's typically something I take into consideration when arbitrarily categorizing things.

Boxing's a pretty big deal though for a lot of people.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Goffer posted:

Although historically I think machetes and knives were more commonly used.

:3:

Anyway, I've just gotten out of a brief fling with BJJ, and am looking to get back into punching things. Around Septemberish I might try out the brand new boxing club at my school, maybe culminating in an actual fight in the ring. I've gotten up to brown in karate (laugh now if you so desire) and have been doing some training at an MMA gym that focused on wing chun (speaking of Bruce Lee), boxing, and muay thai. Also some wrestling groundwork, though the guy who taught that usually came in on the days I couldn't make it so...

Anyway, I've done sparring at karate tournaments and had some wins, some first round eliminations, and my MMA place was more of a self-defense/'practical' sort of place than competition pre, though a few guys were there to prep for amatuer fights, but they were mostly outnumbered by e.g. bouncers, a few cops, some girls in there for self defence. I ended up there because I was dating one of said girls and mostly stuck around for the drills, cardio, bag work, and to mix up my karate stuff.

ANYWAY, anyone have any tips on transitioning into boxing from other styles? Any habits I might need to unlearn? Also, any tips for useful cardio/muscle building stuff I can do over the summer?

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
Fun times. Our wing chun stuff is pretty muay thai/mma-ish, so I'll probably default to that stance. Hands probably a bit low (think about how MMA guys hold it vs. the boxers I see on TV.) I guess one big difference is going to be the lead foot, my wing chun is all right lead, in karate we're encourage to be comfortable switching. If I'm already that committed, is it worth is to angle for whatever nutso dominant lead techniques there are? Also, I may need to actually learn how to jump rope. It's one of those playground skills I could never figure out. Actually, that's a thing I can do now so... Maybe it'll be easy now that I'm not an awkward 8 year old.

Good advise on the charging thing. Even when my sifu is training guys for MMA fights the strategy is 'get in there and bury them in strikes' mixed with enough ground game to avoid submits and win the ground and pound.

And lastly, woo! My jabbing is pretty strong, though I'll probably have to learn it over again 'boxing' style.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

zagron posted:

That certainly seems like sound advice, sadly there is limited options for me to pursue where I live. Muay Thai was the main reason I chose this gym, they take a yearly trip to thailand to train which is pretty cool too.

The only thing that really peeves me is the amount of bowing and "yes master!" bull-shittery that goes on. It strikes me as a "to be good at martial arts you have to act Japanese" kind of thing. But I hear martial arts in Australia is very much like that.

Is this something I should just get used to and accept?

It's not the end of the world. A good many MA guys could use a check on their ego and, frankly, if you're going to be doing lots of contact stuff it's not a terrible thing for everyone to listen to their instructors.

Basically, if the 'master' is doing this for his ego, you probably want out anyway. If not, either it's at worst some harmless BS, a neat little tradition, like school mottos or Donut Thursdays.

However, it may be part of the gym being pretty spread out, trying to cover a lot of bases. You sound like you might want something more tightly focused, if you can find any good gyms like that in your area.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
For competitions I've only done TMA's, which makes me a filthy casual I know, but getting good and mad before a round made a lot of difference in how I fought. I think it's more a TMA thing because we do all our sparring all nice and gentle with our buddies and most of us aren't there to go compete, so you get used to just tapping in like 'I coulda hit you here.' Which is all well and good, but if you get used to just proving that you could have you don't actually end up landing those shots. My advice would be to just have someone roll 'unfriendly' with him a few times before a tournament.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
Ugh.

Just did pretty well at a karate tournament, but I'm getting real tired of points based, judged matches. I know even the UFC can't run to knock outs all the time, but eesh I hate playing to one judge or another's particular idea of what does and doesn't count as a point. Oh well, got a bloody nose and a foot shaped bruise on the side of my neck for the day, so that's nice.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
My dojo's like half a block away and my sensei is the happiest little Filipino man who let's me train cheap. I was supplementing with some MMA a while ago but don't have time for it. When I next up stakes and move town (when this lease is up) I'm definitely finding some MT or boxing.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Dolemite posted:

Last question: Any of you ever experienced dry heaving during MT classes? Like, you feel on the edge of vomiting. Especially after a round of drilling a combo that's several punches and kicks long. I can't pin down what causes it. I've tried not eating a lot before class, eating before class, chugging a poo poo load of water, NOT chugging water before class and nothing works.

I've tried Googling this question and no one seems to have a solid answer. :(

EDIT: Also making things hard is that the dry heaving doesn't happen consistently. There's plenty of days where I go the entire time with no problems. UGH!

That's probably just rigorous exercise 101. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise-induced_nausea We'd always have a few casualties during soccer two-a-days after summer. A few guys went through high school as "Yak" and "Spew" because they'd done it on their first days as freshmen. Rules of thumb are: avoid eating right before, hydrate properly (e.g. a lot, but spread over time well before training, so it's in your body not your stomach), watch how quickly you eat and drink afterwards, and avoid orange gatorade.

For what it's worth, I was a casualty myself I think it was junior year. I had oatmeal and the aforementioned orange gatorade come up on me after we all finished up. Got to my bike, got half way up onto it, then had to throw it down and double over.

the JJ fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Oct 30, 2013

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

BlindSite posted:

Yeah. I think you'll like something like BJJ or MT just gotta decide whether you want to be a punchman or a man-hugger.

It's a shame that no TMA is actually taught traditionally any more because seeing dudes punch and kick the poo poo out of eachother and then slip into a wristlock or shoulder throw would probably be pretty cool.

Kyokushin guys go hard.* And I've also done Wing Chun in a gym that was MMA with boxing and MT mixed in.

*Their sparring rules are a bit weirdly restrictive though.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Mechafunkzilla posted:

Because kyokushin is a sport, with rules and poo poo! The rules are what allow you to do full contact sparring without maiming each other, and the competition aspect is what refines the techniques down to what actually works.

I also don't know if I would classify kyokushin as a traditional martial art, it didn't exist before the 50's/60's.

Most Japanese 'TMA's' aren't much older.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
I've never heard of this and I've mostly done TMA. Now: get caught screwing a student's mother, get booted by sensei, then setting up shop insufficiently far from said sensei, then take all his students because sensei hasn't had time to find a good translator yet, that'll get you a buncha dirty looks at the local tournaments.

e: Generally if there's 'circumstances' dojo's will get it. At least in karate, a lot of these sensei's will know (or as above, hate) each other much better than you'd expect.

the JJ fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Jan 10, 2014

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Minclark posted:

I've been skimming through posts trying to catch information on Aikido because there is a class that takes place between work and home and I'm interested in joining in. A few of the other posts have commented how Aikido has helped them in their daily lives with remaining calm and facing situations different then they may have otherwise. Do you find this to be true aswell? I'm a rather excitable dude for my small size and I'm trying to figure out if I would be welcome to try and find a way to wind down that doesn't involve me dismantling something.

Aikido dudes I know are usually pretty chill guys with little to no testosteroney overdoses. I dunno if that's correlation or causation though.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
I had a GF who was big into MMA and she had to shop around for a gym where she didn't feel creeped on/like she was being treated like china, but now she's doing jiu jitsu four times a week and loving it, so I would def try and find a gym that works.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
Re wing chun: That dude is very loud. I can confirm that it's pretty in keeping with wing chun philosophy of simultaneous attack/block but the WC straight shot has some upper bounds on power because you're not using any rotation. You really have to put your body behind it, if that makes sense. Practicality is a tricky issue, generally any youtube vid you see is going to overstate the effectiveness of the style or technique being shown. Factor that up two notches for anything that says 'self-defense' 'the street' or 'the real world' and down a few notches for anything involving an actual sport. Overall, yes, blocking a shot and striking is a good thing. As opposed to not blocking a shot and not striking. A true wing chun solution would be to then bury your opponent in strikes which are, if you're doing it right, pretty painful. Other styles would probably emphasize different solutions.

Sooo... accurate-ish and practical in a general 'hey try to hit them/not get hit' sort of metric.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Halloween Jack posted:

What's up with the wing chun teachers who need to argue that their martial art can beat up your martial art by doing demos with their owns students? When I studied karate, I certainly met a lot of people who were deluded about the efficacy of kempo, TKD, and every variety of strip-mall budo, but I've never seen "Sensei Tad shows how Goju-ryu chops beat MMA!" videos.

I'm really glad the wing chun I did was part of a boxing/BJJ/wrestling/muay thai set up. It still wasn't the best for a lot of reasons, but no one had a giant stick up their rear end about being better. My karate gym is the same, our main guy is also an aikido, kendo, and judoka, and our other sensei did a bunch of TKD and some boxing when he was younger.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Siivola posted:

I guess the moral of the story is, don't play basketball. It's not a safe sport. :(

Basketball destroys ankles, soccer destroys knees.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Zyla posted:

Complete newbie, I don't even know where to go to train. All these places seem to offer very generous introduction packages, one even seems to have a month of free training. How much does this kind of stuff end up costing for weekly/monthly training? I'm talking BJJ/Grappling sorts of things. I'd much not like to get into striking, as I've had multiple concussions from other things.

I used to take Tae Kwan Do as a kid and made it up to around brown belt there, so I have some MA experience, but a lot of it is long forgotten aside from a few reflex parries and grapples.

Mostly I just want a workout routine that is also doing something interesting.

I should add that I'm in the Western Mass area. I did a cursory google of the area but I have no idea who's legit and who's shady.

The month of free training is a good sign, it means they have some faith in their ability to not scare you away. The standard advice here is to not take anything that isn't either a. highly recommended by someone you trust or b. lets you try out once (or twice. or three times) before seeing your cash. And b. is much better than a. As for 'legit' vs. 'shady' that can mean some things. I mean there's 'woman don't train at that gym because they're (quite reasonably) afraid of being assaulted by the hypermasculine meatheads who train there' shady and then there's 'we will train our grasshoppers to defeat 20 gaijin pigs with a single kiai, then next month they will learn the ancient Jewish arts' shady, which is pretty much harmless but also not, you know, ideal. Avoiding that sort of poo poo usually means finding a sport gym, e.g. one that regularly has to test their poo poo against other practitioners to sanity check their own bullshit. Most BJJ, most judo, almost all boxing, and some MMA gyms fit this mold.

Costs vary regionally, so I'm not much help there.

Depending on what you want out of your workout, a grapple sport will probably be best. A good boxing gym or the like will kick your rear end with cardio, but you could also just skip rope yourself if that's all you're looking for.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
Welp, three days before probably my last karate tourney I managed to break a toe nail cleanly in half, so that's fun. Any advice here? It's a super minor issue overall, but I'd rather not get blood all over someone's gi everytime I go for a muwashi geri with my left foot. Just tape the drat thing? Put on a layer of gauze and tape it?

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Mechafunkzilla posted:

Just tape the drat thing, but instead of gauze just use a layer of stretchy self-adherent tape (any pharmacy will have it) under your athletic tape. Remember to tape tight around the base of the toe so it can't slip off.

Aight. Just like taping up for a soccer game then.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

General Emergency posted:

Well my martial arts journey really started out all wonderful and I ripped off a toenail in the first training session. This should make kickboxing practice real fun...

The thing I've noticed is I'm really lacking knee mobility. Any kick above the waist and it gets really hard for me to straighten my legs. During stretching too it's really hard to reach my toes while keeping my legs straight. Besides the standard "reach for the toes" stretches, anyone have any good ideas for stretches/exercises to help with it?

I was having toe touchey issues after a break a while back. Mixing in butterflies and groin stretches and dynamic things* around the hips in general seemed to help the hamstrings, but it may also have just been me stretching more again. Honestly a good one is to find a handhold and just swing (as opposed to knee up, snap, which is how we do most of our kicks) your leg up or out about ten times. Just go up, hit the point of resistance don't force past it, and down.

*we called them 'opening the gate' and 'closing the gate' in soccer. Jog three steps, lift knee straight up to waist high, then 'open' out, jog, do it to the other leg. Repeat. To close, jog, lift out sideways, then bring it to the front. Nice and easy, focus on going through the whole movement, it's not a cardio thing or a strength workout.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
Pretty much. I did wing chun for a while and found a lot of it reasonably practical, but it was in an MMA place that also had boxing/muay thai/wrasslin' coaches. Obviously it has its own style and philosophy and approaches to things, but we still drilled jab straight hook straight and other boxing poo poo.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

notwithoutmyanus posted:

Get more in shape, survival skills, protect myself and my family (preferably without having to fight people, obviously), go from there? I don't want to do something like wushu which I feel is flashy even if it works. I did do wrestling back in high school and enjoyed it greatly.

I just liked Krav maga because it seemed practical/basic.

Join a gym, take a NOLS course, by some running shoes, don't be stupid (alt: purchase gun, lock in safe because statistically it's safer there,* continue to not be stupid). But really, unless you're taking your family out to macho-frat boy bars and intentionally picking fights I can't imagine a scenario that is either a. escalated way beyond punching but b. that you can't also walk/run/talk your way out of.

I think there is a tension between the whole 'I wanna be able to hurt people who are hurting me on the streets' and the 'I want to be able to drill this and hit it over and over again until I will never ever not be able to hit this' and while going for #2 may be technically less 'lethal' or 'real' being able to test techniques with resisting partners who don't then immediately break vastly outweighs the benefits of learning 'real' techniques that you can't really train because they're too real. In which case you're better off looking for a good martial sports sort of deal because they're going to be cutting edge as far as technique practicality (within their rule set) because they actually have to compete with each other. If you're really picky look for a place that has a few cops or bouncers. It's probably going to be a BJJ/Judo place but those I think are the only people who regularly get into 'nonlethal' but 'real' situations anymore. I think there was a video going around of a BJJ guy rolling with some cops who were applying their techniques to him. A very different mode of operations with some very specific goals, like 'hands behind back and next to each other, cuff him' that used a lot of teamwork.

*Yes, I know, if you're not being stupid then it's probably fine to carry it around but...

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
You said you did wrassle sports before, so you'll probably like BJJ or judo.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
I'm a karate guys so I'm kinda obliged to throw out the obvious not-aikido-but-still-Nihon-desu option. A good kyokushin dojo would be good, sporty, and practical, but a (good, very important that it be good) shotokan place is going to have a lot of your aikido meditation/forms work mixed in with practical-ish stuff.

Ignore music, observe practical shotokan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ywqKAnDJXE

2:30 on is of course the crane kick money shot from like 8 angles but no Machida-as-shotokan highlight reel is not going to abuse that.

e: Every American Kempo person I know was terrible at everything. They seem to like teaming up with :airquote: 'Shaolin' :airquote: Kung Fu people. I dunno, maybe they're like the Krav Maga of the TMA world.

the JJ fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jun 14, 2014

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Ligur posted:

I've posted about this earlier, but we've had a few people with TKD past show up and they are funny. Like, really nice people, but also, when someone, somewhere close to them (not necessarily AT them) throws a kick they *ZIP* IMMEDIATELY DROP THEIR HANDS and start a weird cross-step shuffle to prepare a neat kick. Or perhaps to confuse. I am not sure.

They are just fine as long as we kick a bag or pads and can even punch it a bit if they try but it's hilarious when they see this kick being thrown somewhere during a moving/striking or themed sparring exercise with a bit of freedom built in, their eyes glace over, the hands drop, and then you just nudge them in the face with a jab and ask "hey, bro, you alright, why'd you do that!?!"

We had a black belt TKD guy join our karate gym, nicest guy, ripped as hell, great kicks. We taught him to keep his hands up and throw an okay reverse punch and threw him into the white belt divisions in tournaments. :allears: Our little wrecking ball. He's been improving his karate in leaps and bounds too.


Ultragonk posted:

Hello, I've been thinking about taking up a martial art and my local gym has shotokan karate classes that fit my schedule. Has anyone here had any experience with shotokan karate (Probably a stupid question)? What do you think of it? I currently do historical fencing but fancy adding something more without weapons, though we do a little grappling in he fencing school.

It depends on what you're looking for. I've done it for the past half decade, only just stopped because I moved away from my gym and my sensei. I explained to the thread earlier that by the end I was kinda sticking with it only because I really liked the sensei. As with anything, the style doesn't matter much if the coach is terrible.

Overall you're looking at something that blends meditative and exercise forms with a practical, sporty element. That said, shotokan tourney rules are pretty restrictive and uniquely subject to judge's decision, which is mostly why I'm bailing out. However, this means a competition with karate won't leave you bloody, broken, incapacitated and concussed, for the most part. I've seen kick induced barfing, mildly broken noses, but nothing too serious. (The forms, kata, are arguably more dangerous. Pay attention to your form or you might end up loving your knees/ankles.)

That said, I don't regret it, it's a lot of fun and they do some things you don't get out of other styles. Depending on what you're looking for, it could be exactly what you want.

I posted this just a bit back but here it is again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ywqKAnDJXE

A nice thing that cuts kata and karate style kumite next to Machida performing the same techniques in MMA fights.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Ultragonk posted:

It is in a great location for me it's just 10 minutes walk from my house so travel wouldn't be a factor. Yeah I'm mid 30s so I'm not looking for a new career in blocking kicks with my face. Thanks for the advice.


Thanks, that's interesting, I'm not 100% sure what I want out of it at the moment I'm thinking of it more as a hobby. That isn't to say I won't take it seriously I think of my fencing as a hobby and I take that quite seriously.

Well, it probably won't hurt to try, and it's a pretty good hobby TMA as far as TMA's go.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Gaz2k21 posted:

Question for you guys....

I'm left handed/footed, we've always been taught never to check with your rear/power leg my problem is that when I spar with a right handed person checking with my leading leg is impossible any ideas???

Learns both aka Kung fu/karate and annoy the poo poo out of people by switching. Or go into round one orthodox and then pop into southpaw in round two and maul the guy.

VikingofRock posted:

Is it cool to ask for style recommendations in this thread beyond what the OP states? I have very little previous experience in martial arts (just a few quarters of aikido in college), but here's what I think I would like in a style:

1. It's gotta be a good workout.
2. Emphasis on strikes over grappling (some grappling is cool though). Mostly I just think striking sounds more fun.
3. Some degree of competitive sparring. My aikido classes had none of this, which I though was a shame because I really enjoy competition.
4. I don't care if it's practical or not.
5. Actually, impractical but showy poo poo like this is probably a bit of a bonus:



If it matters, I live in Santa Cruz, CA but would be willing to drive up to San Jose a couple times per week if there were significantly better options there.


Kyoukushin, as mentioned, is a pretty good choice but I'd put shotokan or something like that up there with TKD if you can't find a good or convo isn't kyoukushin place.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

A Keg posted:


How typical is training like this in the martial arts scene? Is there any hope that it'd be worth my money to go here?

a. Depressingly common and b. only if it's free and you value your time at a negative rate.

Okay, that's an exaggeration, I'm just bitter because I'm in a new town working weird hours and I haven't had time to scope out my options outside of the Shalin Kenpo Five Dragons in that strip mall down the road so I'm angry.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Mechafunkzilla posted:

They're different sports, that's kind of like asking if football or baseball is better for throwing. Muay Thai probably translates better to MMA.

Yeah. Wasn't a guy like thee pages back talking about this? The transition is less about one having an edge and more about them having a different ruleset. The technique forms and stance you use for boxing would get your poo poo wrecked by knees/clinch/kicks in a Muay Thai fight but a Muay Thai stance in a boxing ring is going to get your bell rung. Good boxers box well, good muay thai fighters muay well. If you want pure "punching and movement" I'd go with boxing because it is punch and move, but do muay thai if you want punch and elbow and knee and move.

e: for actual content, I've been sans punching and hugging for 4 months or so now, am ramping back in again in the hopes of finding a good place. There's boxing like 30 mins away I'm hoping is a good gym and will work with my work schedule. And hoping I can resist the urge to kick people and switch up my stance. Anyway, ran stairs today and god drat did it suck. Which means I need to do it until it no longer sucks. Anyone have any other good get back into fighting cardio ideas? Right now I'm thinking stairs, sprints, regular running, but I should probably throw some body weights and anaerobic stuff on too, I guess. And stretching.
Lots of stretching.

the JJ fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Sep 11, 2014

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Ligur posted:

Question of the day, yarrrr:

Our club is very female friendly, and it's not uncommon to see a boxing or kickboxing class with 50% of the participants girls and women of various ages. But why do many - if not most - girls stand stick straight when they should have the loose forward crouch of a boxer or a kickboxer? They have seen the boxing or kickboxng stance, hundreds if not thousands of times. WHERE DOES THEIR ERECT POSE COME FROM?

Gurlz almost lean back, pushing their chest forwards. When you nudge someone in the ribs, tell her "y0, weight down, loose knees, legs wider (at this point eyes start glazing), 45 degree angle to enemy, jaw down, aggressive crouch, shoulders hunched forward, elbows at ribs (eyes point in different directions; glassy)" they will nod, watch your own guard, watch the mirror, and go back standing stick straight, chest out, legs glued together and then fall down when punching.

What I envy them is their hip and leg flexibility; most women under 30 or 40 can do things I couldn't do when 22. Many are also natural kickers. Much more often than men.

Too much TMA? I know that's why my stance is so erect.

Okay, so I've mostly been coming here to kvetch about not being able to find a gym without, you know, seeking advice. Also I feel less fat since I've been getting back to cardio land.

My problem is I'm sort of in podunk land at the intersection of upper to middle class soccer moms-istan and trashy Walmart fats-ville. And my work schedule is pretty not conducive to normal people hours: I work ~3 to lights out, and my days off are Thurs-Fri so weekend classes are out. On top of that my limited options (lovely TKD McDojo's aside) all seem to put a huge emphasis on fitness and not, you know, punching or hugging mans. I'm sorta hoping that's not a red flag in the same way 'build self-esteem' is since that reads to me as 'buy a black belt for your 8 year old.'

This, dumb pitbull logo aside, looks like the best choice and I like their shots of the facilities but I'm a bit put off by them leading with 'fitness get fit workout get fit.'

I mean, the ultimate answer is to try it out and see if I like it but I was wondering what you all thought about it.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
Aight, that was basically what I was hoping to hear, marketing to pull in $$ because actual people who want to get hit in the face are too rare to actually support a good facility. My college dojo just had to call up all the alums because admin tried to take their practice space for Zumba classes so maybe I'm a little reactionary.

On then, to the land of the would-be MILFs.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

KildarX posted:

How useful/common/detrimental are hand toughening exercises these days? I assume before the advent of gloves making sure you didn't break your hand on someones face would be a thing to be doing.

If you do it like my old sensei super detrimental but you don't really notice until its way too late.

Yeah, the 80's were weird and he doesn't let people to that anymore. On the other hand he's got a coupla brick hands. On the other hand... he's got brick hands.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Verisimilidude posted:

Can anyone give me their ideas on traditional martial arts like kung fu/wing chun and their practicality? I was watching some kung fu people in New York and it seemed pretty hokey. Stuff like "If you attacked me from here, you've exposed this area, so I'm going to do this..." and then they proceed to do like 3 or 4 different punches and grabs and it looked really impressive but it also seemed really impractical.

I have a friend who used to practice kung fu (at Bo Law kung fu in NYC) and he has a similar way of showing techniques. I never said anything because I didn't know any better, but looking into it I'm beginning to realize that a lot of that stuff seemed needless and impractical.

I'm just curious for the most part, not trying to put down anyone's chosen martial art.

The most practical self defense is not being in a bad situation in the first place. The second most practical is not escalating poo poo. Third is running the hell away. Fourth is whatever you've trained well enough to perform under shittons of adrenaline because holy poo poo this guys is trying to kill me.

A competitively practiced sport martial arts is going to give you the best practice for that fourth option, and is also way more likely to give you a general toolbox you can pull from by reflex instead of some super combo that relies on a highly specific set of circumstances and 100% perfect application of the technique in the chain.

So tai chi is probably "more practical" if you're a dude with anger management issues and that helps you find your Zen. If you want STRAIGHT practical take up running, but if you want a most practical someone jumps you in the street MA the general thread consensus is that a good muay thai or boxing school or judo/BJJ. That said if I ever get jumped the first thing I'd do is probably panic to my karate skill set, straight punches and basic blocks. Which is fine because it's not panicking into nothing. Boxing, judo, jiu jitsu, Muay Thai are all "traditional" by most standards and would be perfectly fine.

Kung fu is a bit weird in that it's a big umberella that can cover a big range of showy or form based to actually sparring. I'll say that I've never been impressed by a westerner doing Kung fu though. A lot of the sillier stuff became super popular over here. Something about the 80s man...

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

A Keg posted:

Wing Chun sparring vids I found on youtube look like this to me: :sissies:

I'm sure it's a lot of fun to train but your friend is delusional.

Edit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvCFrf9kJwI

The Wing Chun guy is slapping furiously but the Karate guy is still getting punches through his field of wild slaps here.

What the gently caress is that karate guy throwing though? Jesus.

But yeah, I've done some wing chun at a MMA place that did chun, wrassling, and some muay thai. The blocks were pretty solid, the chun punch is surprisingly good for some situations, and some of the hand control isn't totally useless.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Mechafunkzilla posted:

The short answer is no. Certainly nobody in top level MMA has every gone into the cage and tried to do chi sau blocks into a 15-strike rapid combination, or assumed a traditional kung fu stance, because it would result in them getting loving murdered in about two seconds.

People were giddy Lyoto Machida, who has a shotokan background, knocked out Randy Couture with a front snap kick because it's a "Shotokan karate move", but it's not like muay thai-style striking (which is also what he's doing exclusively when he's training for a fight) doesn't have front snap kicks too, and fighters with strictly boxing and muay thai backgrounds like Vitor Belfort have also gotten front kick KO's. If something is effective and is allowed in the rules it's probably already a part of that combat sport's repertoire, almost by definition. Machida may well have learned that particular kick in a shotokan class, but what's really going on there is that effective moves tend to exist and be done the same way in multiple arts, because they're effective.

To be fair, he does do a lot of other shotokan-y stuff. It's clearly his base and he makes it work, but yeah, he's had to bring in more stuff from other styles than guys who just run MT/BJJ.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Dangersim posted:

Ok but that doesn't automatically mean he's doing muay thai. Just being full contact does not make it muay thai.

"Full contact" karate looks really funny though, because there's still no headshots with fists. So just dude standing there trading body shots and then whipping up to kick each other in the head.

(I'm sure Machida's not doing that.)

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Mechafunkzilla posted:

I said 'training muay thai-style striking', meaning, when he's sparring striking it's under a similar ruleset to muay thai, as opposed to a similar ruleset to shotokan. Don't be obtuse.

No, he's doing shotokan striking with MT rules. Probably with MMA rules actually, if he's actually training.

Dangersim posted:

that's kyoshukin

Yeah I know. It still looks very silly. It might be more :black101: than shotokan point sparring but at least we protect our heads.

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the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

the JJ posted:

Aight, that was basically what I was hoping to hear, marketing to pull in $$ because actual people who want to get hit in the face are too rare to actually support a good facility. My college dojo just had to call up all the alums because admin tried to take their practice space for Zumba classes so maybe I'm a little reactionary.

On then, to the land of the would-be MILFs.

This is digging way back but I finally got unbusy enough to MMA. Trip report from the land of the would be MILFs: they were all actually in their 20's (Yay!) but were doing the ladies only class before the MMA class started. (Shucks.)

Srs posting: gassed the hell out (breathing was fine, but I hand trembling hands, borderline nausea, unresponsive muscles, sweating buckets, etc. Felt great but, you know, endorphins.) ~65% of the way through the class because it's been so long since I did any martial arting and I went in matching the intensity of the guys drilling. I have no idea where I'd be if I hadn't been doing cardio. Part of it my have been the were working wrassling which I haven't done much of before.

Aside from that, the coaches seemed great, facilities are good, the club competes and does well, it's pretty cheap ($140 a month) and they're giving me a few weeks to try it out and see if I'm a good fit, which I appreciate. Only problems are my schedule and the fact that they want a 12 month commit. Still very tempted, especially if I can work out something for my schedule.

Any recommendations on good pre-showtime meal habits? I could kinda do whatever when I was doing punchy things but the wrassling is stressing my system in new and exciting ways.

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