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dude on the BTC forums posted:With the current difficulty, if price hits and stays around $1 there's going to be a mass exodus of miners. Holy poo poo. This guy is the Bigfoot of carbon footprints.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:13
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ripped0ff posted:Holy poo poo. This guy is the Bigfoot of carbon footprints. I always think people like that are trolling. Who's loving dumb enough to do that? To charge a $600 electric bill, and yet still consider bitcoins might be worth anything?
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Aug 7, 2011 02:15
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mewse posted:Which national currencies are worth more than 1 bitcoin per 1 of their main unit currently? Ha yes, I noticed that. It's honestly the kind of thing I'd find interesting, but at least I know it's completely irrelevant. I'm less sure about the guy who asked. Bash Ironfist posted:I always think people like that are trolling. Who's loving dumb enough to do that? To charge a $600 electric bill, and yet still consider bitcoins might be worth anything? Well, up until recently he might still have made a profit.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:16
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Bash Ironfist posted:I always think people like that are trolling. Who's loving dumb enough to do that? To charge a $600 electric bill, and yet still consider bitcoins might be worth anything? It's called the Sunk Costs Fallacy.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:18
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ripped0ff posted:Holy poo poo. This guy is the Bigfoot of carbon footprints.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:19
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Ahhh, I see. Still though, if you saw the value of your buttcoins go from like 11 dollars to like 5 dollars...how would that not worry you enough to stop mining them? "Perhaps this is too unstable a time to use all this electricity" Would be a thought, wouldn't it?
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Aug 7, 2011 02:20
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I seriously don't know why the market hasn't rebounded. The number of asks is so low across the board that it wouldn't take much to drive the price back up a few bucks. For all this forum bravado about how they can't wait to buy, no one seems to be doing so. Look at TH's market depth. A 50 BTC purchase would literally drive the market up over two dollars, that's how thin it is. Bids outnumber asks 3:1, and yet no one is willing to budge their bid. It's basically as if the market has just accepted the fact that BTC's are crap, but for some reason is willing to keep their bids up. It's mindblowing.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:20
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ripped0ff posted:Holy poo poo. This guy is the Bigfoot of carbon footprints. He didn't mention whether that bill's for a month or a quarter. It's be on the highish side for a quarter here but not especially so if someone was had a couple of big TVs, air conditioning and was running a high-end computer non-stop.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:21
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gnarlyhotep posted:It's called the Sunk Costs Fallacy. No? It was quite plausible to recoup the cost of hardware and power by selling the mined coins up until recently, and he's thinking about quitting now when that's no longer the case. Hell, if he's been at it for long enough and/or gets a halfway-reasonable price for his used cards he might even end up with a reasonable profit.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:22
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Computer viking posted:No? It was quite plausible to recoup the cost of hardware and power by selling the mined coins up until recently, and he's thinking about quitting now when that's no longer the case. Hell, if he's been at it for long enough and/or gets a halfway-reasonable price for his used cards he might even end up with a reasonable profit. That was a very short window of time, except for the early adopters.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:25
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Computer viking posted:No? It was quite plausible to recoup the cost of hardware and power by selling the mined coins up until recently, and he's thinking about quitting now when that's no longer the case. Hell, if he's been at it for long enough and/or gets a halfway-reasonable price for his used cards he might even end up with a reasonable profit. You're assuming rational behavior from people who have proven themselves to be anything but.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:25
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gnarlyhotep posted:It's called the Sunk Costs Fallacy. Is there such a thing as a "future sunk cost" fallacy? The thing that keeps him going is probably the thought of all the potential lost revenue if he stops mining now, once Bitcoins are on the obvious upswing again.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:27
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Bash Ironfist posted:I always think people like that are trolling. Who's loving dumb enough to do that? To charge a $600 electric bill, and yet still consider bitcoins might be worth anything? You should have a look in the mining hardware forum. Most are building open racks to run 7 or 8 graphics cards. It only takes a few crazy set ups to end up with a $600 power bill. Given that there are 13.7 THashs/s on the bitcoin network that adds up to a lot of expensive power bills. The most commonly used cards give 1.5 MHash/W. That's around 9.1 MW to run the total hashing, and 2.537 kW.hours/s.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:28
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Cardiovorax posted:I'm not quite seeing the connection either. Running electricity costs aren't already incurred, right? They're paid by the kilowatt. If he stops mining right now, he will have no more electricity costs. I'm saying that part of the rationalization to keep mining buttcoins is that they have spent not only lots of money, but time as well setting up all their crazy contraptions. Then there's the pride of being the Dr. Frankenstein that created such a beast. That's a hardware nerd's nirvana.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:33
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Wonder how many people will get raided under suspicion of having grow ops in their basement.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:34
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gnarlyhotep posted:I'm saying that part of the rationalization to keep mining buttcoins is that they have spent not only lots of money, but time as well setting up all their crazy contraptions. Then there's the pride of being the Dr. Frankenstein that created such a beast. That's a hardware nerd's nirvana. Still seems very weird to use a guy that's saying "this doesn't look profitable anymore, guess I'll stop" as the example, though.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:35
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Computer viking posted:Still seems very weird to use a guy that's saying "this doesn't look profitable anymore, guess I'll stop" as the example, though. Ah, I read it wrong. I'm dumb.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:36
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A new bitcoin has been developed, and is in testing now. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.0 I don't know how popular this one's going to be. It's called devcoin, and 90% of the coins generated go to "open source developers", leaving the miners a meager 10%. In case anyone here didn't know, this is (at least) the 3rd blockchain being run on the bitcoin software, the first being Bitcoin itself and the second being Namecoin. Namecoin is some odd alternative Domain Name System which is never gonna work. Probably not the best time for them to have launched their new bitcoins, seeing as how the original appears to be collapsing right now.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:37
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With the price at $6 and the current difficulty, mining is now 16x less profitable than what is was in early june when the difficulty was relative low at $30 a coin. A setup that would have theoretically brought in $1500 a month (what people that dropped hundreds/thousands calculated out) will now bring in $100 a month, and that's BEFORE electricity costs, so basically those $1000 computers are making nothing now. I wouldn't surprised to see a big drop in the mining rate.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:40
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Realjones posted:With the price at $6 and the current difficulty, mining is now 16x less profitable than what is was in early june when the difficulty was relative low at $30 a coin. Does the difficulty adjust downward when there's less hashing power on the network or does it just delay the next difficulty jump?
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Aug 7, 2011 02:45
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Realjones posted:With the price at $6 and the current difficulty, mining is now 16x less profitable than what is was in early june when the difficulty was relative low at $30 a coin. Won't that be followed by a similar drop in difficulty, though? In some delayed-reaction way it should stabilize around where there's a small profit to be had by mining ... or at least it would, if the USD per bitcoin price hadn't been dropping at some unpredictable-but-serious rate.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:46
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Lolie posted:Does the difficulty adjust downward when there's less hashing power on the network or does it just delay the next difficulty jump? The difficulty updates every 2016 blocks. I believe there are around 1200 blocks to go. If the mining rate drops heavily it could take months or years before the difficulty adjusts.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:48
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Realjones posted:With the price at $6 and the current difficulty, mining is now 16x less profitable than what is was in early june when the difficulty was relative low at $30 a coin. This is exactly right, and the results should provide plenty more drama. Here's the math on my computer, which I considered using for bitcoin mining but never did. I have a Radeon 5770 graphics card, which would be producing about 1/10th of a bitcoin per day at the current difficulty level. At $6 per coin, that is 60 cents per day worth of bitcoins. My system doesn't use much power, perhaps 300 watts. That's about 7.2 kilowatt hours per day, at 10 cents per kilowatt hour, electricity costs are 72 cents per day. At the current price and difficulty, I would lose 12 cents per day! Bitcoin mining is now a money losing proposition for many miners. Of course, I don't have the most efficient system, as I've only got one graphics card and it's not the best one, so many miners may still be eking out a small profit.
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Aug 7, 2011 02:56
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Photex posted:Wonder how many people will get raided under suspicion of having grow ops in their basement. I would love to be the DEA guy on that mission. "Now Sir, can you please explain to me again why you have multiple computers sitting open with 9 redundant video cards?"
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Aug 7, 2011 02:57
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Ripoff posted:I would love to be the DEA guy on that mission. render farm
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Aug 7, 2011 03:00
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Orange Sunshine posted:At the current price and difficulty, I would lose 12 cents per day! Bitcoin mining is now a money losing proposition for many miners. Of course, I don't have the most efficient system, as I've only got one graphics card and it's not the best one, so many miners may still be eking out a small profit. There will be a few that will use their mining rigs for home heating when it's actually cold. Some of them might even be able to use their aircon for cooling themselves and their pet ferrets.
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Aug 7, 2011 03:01
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Devian666 posted:The difficulty updates every 2016 blocks. I believe there are around 1200 blocks to go. If the mining rate drops heavily it could take months or years before the difficulty adjusts. It's possible to make an emergency adjustment by modifying the clients. As long as a majority of the nodes agree to the change it will propagate into the block chain. The namecoin idiots didn't know how to do that...
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Aug 7, 2011 03:01
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Morkai posted:It's possible to make an emergency adjustment by modifying the clients. As long as a majority of the nodes agree to the change it will propagate into the block chain. The namecoin idiots didn't know how to do that... If it came down to an emergency adjustment we'd have to get everygoon to run an old client to cock block the difficulty change. 
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Aug 7, 2011 03:03
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Orange Sunshine posted:This is exactly right, and the results should provide plenty more drama. Yes, but you are forgetting up uP UP. What's a small loss now to be a bit coin billionaire in just a few short years? You can't approach this rationally when no one did before the crash of their worthless play money bubble.
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Aug 7, 2011 03:03
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Three Olives posted:Yes, but you are forgetting up uP UP. What's a small loss now to be a bit coin billionaire in just a few short years? I don't know - some of the miners seem to have been in it for the short-term profit. The True Believers are going to be out a lot of money, of course, as is generally the case for True Believers in anything.
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Aug 7, 2011 03:19
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Someone has pushed the price back up to $7.50 now. Wonder how long it will hold.
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Aug 7, 2011 03:27
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Devian666 posted:If it came down to an emergency adjustment we'd have to get everygoon to run an old client to cock block the difficulty change.
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Aug 7, 2011 03:28
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ymgve posted:Someone has pushed the price back up to $7.50 now. Wonder how long it will hold. It'll stay up there for a bit. There just aren't really enough people still trying to sell any more. Most folks who can afford to cash out already have. The market is so thin right now that even the purchase of a few thousand BTC would drive it up several dollars. That being said, any increase in price is temporary (just not super temporary). The speculators are cutting and running. Once they're gone, that's 90% of the money in the system. After that, BTC will still exist, but only in the same way that Linden dollars do: As a forgotten footnote used for the occasional joke.
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Aug 7, 2011 03:32
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ripped0ff posted:That being said, any increase in price is temporary (just not super temporary). The speculators are cutting and running. Once they're gone, that's 90% of the money in the system. After that, BTC will still exist, but only in the same way that Linden dollars do: As a forgotten footnote used for the occasional joke. That's what I'm guessing too. The speculators, the people who saw the price go from 25 cents to $1 to $5 to $30 and were hoping this was going to continue, almost none of them are left buying now. But every day, the miners keep mining and dumping their coins onto the market, giving us a slow collapse in price. 100,000 new bitcoins are produced every 2 weeks or so, and someone has to buy them to keep the price propped up. Not enough of those someones are showing up any more.
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Aug 7, 2011 03:44
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Orange Sunshine posted:That's what I'm guessing too. The speculators, the people who saw the price go from 25 cents to $1 to $5 to $30 and were hoping this was going to continue, almost none of them are left buying now. But every day, the miners keep mining and dumping their coins onto the market, giving us a slow collapse in price. 100,000 new bitcoins are produced every 2 weeks or so, and someone has to buy them to keep the price propped up. Not enough of those someones are showing up any more. It's just loving hilarious beyond words that the deflationary currency is having it's value eroded by inflation.
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Aug 7, 2011 03:52
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Morkai posted:It's just loving hilarious beyond words that the deflationary currency is having it's value eroded by inflation.
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Aug 7, 2011 04:01
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This guy just foudn out about bitcoins today. Also, mods please change the thread title to BitCoins: Get bit or die mining
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Aug 7, 2011 04:05
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FCKGW posted:This guy just foudn out about bitcoins today. Time to get in while the prices are so low! Before it starts going back UP UP UP.
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Aug 7, 2011 04:08
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Dan Kaminsky had a presentation on Bitcoins at DefCon today. It wasn't particularly bad or flattering, just stating that Bitcoin can't scale unless it emulates our current banking system today. http://dankaminsky.com/2011/08/05/bo2k11/
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Aug 7, 2011 04:14
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FCKGW posted:This guy just foudn out about bitcoins today. Bravo on the title  But really? How does one avoid all the scam stories about bitcoin (edit: Not to mention the crashing market) and think it's a good idea to jump in now? 
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Aug 7, 2011 04:16
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