Bitcoin: Of Freemasons, Free Markets and Bill Cosby Related Investment Schemes

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Insert puns here: May 31, 2011; The sealiest poster

Devian666 posted:

Buy 1 bitcoin get one free scam currently running. The op even has the title scammer.
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20804.0

OK, this is from 10 pages ago but I really can't get over it. We're talking about a forum that makes you sit in the kiddie area until you prove you love bit coins and regularly bans users who don't. Then a guy comes in with an OBVIOUS SCAM and what do they do? They don't ban him, they just quietly mark him a scammer and let him keep at it. Worse, they leave the scam thread open and let him keep posting in it, even as people fall for the scam.

Is this some crazy libertarian thing? "Well, we can censor people who disagree with us, but fraud and grift are valid parts of the market. Caveat emptor, bitches!"

Also, I love this thread. Every time it seems about to die, some new, crazier BS happens to keep it rolling.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2011 18:22

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 06:58

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"you can say anything as long as there's a question mark at the end"
...

# ¿ Jun 23, 2011 20:06

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Bruce read my suggestion to live broadcast the opening of Mt. Gox, but then he muttered something like "yeah, for about 4 seconds..." so it's probably a no go.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2011 21:52

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Trans-Angeles posted:

For those of you who haven't gotten the picture we're painting here... we are supporting Bruce. We want Bruce to succeed as it will undoubtedly lead to more hilariousness. Those of you who come in and try to ruin that will be met with strong resistance. If you're gonna troll, learn to use a lighter hand would you?

Don't ruin this for us!

(Troll bitcoins all you want, just leave onlyonetv.com out of it!)

Thanks Catalonia

# ¿ Jun 24, 2011 23:53

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HineyBorelTheorem posted:

Not really how this works with the untraceable thing going on, but does Mt. Gox get to keep everyone's money in that situation? How would they benefit?

Actually, they'd only have bitcoins, so they wouldn't actually make anything because there's no way to convert them into cash, right?

Also, does anyone find it hilarious that the currency that supposed is decentralized is brought to its knees when the central authority collapses?

We really need a new summary in the OP or something. The Mountain of Gox has at least 1.3 million (probably closer to 3 million) in cold hard USD lying around their site that only they can access. Every transaction on mtg:ox involved cash money in a mtgox account, and a lot of that money never left.

^^^^beaten, but the 1.3 million is based on the volume from the flash crash. That is the bare minimum needed to fill all the orders from the hackers sell-off.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2011 06:49

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Orange Sunshine posted:

Aha! That explains things!

I've been watching the Bitcoins steadily draining away from Mtgox's account for the last 29 hours, and many of the transactions are for exactly 100 bitcoins. I was wondering how so many people were able to get over the "$1000 per day worth of bitcoins" limit. So they have upped the limit to 100 bitcoins per day.

More importantly, they've put the limit in actual BTC (not USD value) so people can't get out of mtgox quickly even if it crashes again. Sounds smart, but I'm probably just missing how it's dumb.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2011 21:34

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I think the reason it still hasn't crashed is the existence of "true believers" who will prop Bitcoins up against all reason. This really sets Bitcoins apart from any other big bubble I can think of. I don't think anyone was saying that Pogs were going to render major parts of the US government obsolete, and I'm almost certain that no one ever claimed that Beanie Babies could have prevented the holocaust. These people are insanely attached to their internet monies, and they will keep it afloat until they run completely out of cash. As soon as that starts happening, though, :munch:

# ¿ Jun 27, 2011 18:03

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homeless snail posted:

There is not a single person in the chat right now who is not trolling. I've probably seen like 3 serious people in that room in the week I've been following this thing.

Yes, the chat has stopped being about trolling just enough that Bruce doesn't notice, and instead become trolling just enough that the other trolls don't arbitrarily decide you've trolled too much. It is meta as gently caress.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2011 03:18

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Shimrra Jamaane posted:

I tend to believe that due to their unexpected 'loyal audience' all of a sudden they have completely splurged on tons of poo poo they don't need.

I'm pretty sure they had all this stuff from the word go. Part of any good confidence scam is looking as legitimate and prosperous as possible. That way people say "Wow, they rented a $5000 Manhattan studio and spent ______ on equipment? These guys must really believe in this!"

# ¿ Jun 28, 2011 03:28

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Eezee posted:

I'm not entirely sure how Bruce could scam his viewers? And he says that all sponsors are friends of his, and I dont think he would actually try to scam them. I think he's really gullible but overall a good guy.

Seriously? Have you listened to anything he says during the show? It's all "buy buy buy and NEVER SELL." It's not even really a show about Bitcoins, it's a puff piece about how awesome Bitcoin speculation is, how they're going up forever, and how you should just keep buying and hoarding. Nothing is ever wrong with Bitcoins according to that show, even when things are terribly wrong. Even the hard-core believers were gnashing their teeth over mtgox a few days ago, but not Brucie. He was all smiles and giggles the whole time. Everything he says is exactly what someone trying to slowly dump a big pile of coins would say, and I find it hard to believe that this is just a coincidence.

e. This browser has spell check?

# ¿ Jun 28, 2011 03:43

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Eezee posted:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I think he actually believes in Bitcoins. It's not like the Bitcoin show is the only thing they have on their channel. Even if he was trying to scam, he would be doing it pretty badly, since he's preaching to people that probably have 0 bitcoins

I'm sorry but "There was no crash at Mt. Gox, it was just a little hack and there was never anything to worry about" and, "nobody sells Bitcoins, unless they're desperate or testing the system" are not stupid, they are just lies. Not even the "true believers" say poo poo like that.

Admittedly, the scam is going very poorly, but the fact that he is hilariously bad at it doesn't make it better. It just makes it hilarious.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2011 03:55

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gnarlyhotep posted:

All I can say to this is, watch the 24/7 live feed. You will see Bruce (and his friends), from roughly 10am to 12am EST, doing everything they do in the studio. Everything. If this is a troll or a scam, it's the most amazing thing since Andy loving Kaufman. No, it's BETTER than Kaufman, because 10+ people keep it up CONTINUOUSLY for at least 10 hours a day. Nobody ever "breaks character". If you still think it's a troll, well, maybe you've been on the internet too long.

(From four pages ago when we were discussing Bruce, but that was the last time I was here) I have watched the feed plenty. To be clear, I don't mean that Bruce is a fake person or that the onlyonetv is just a scam. Bruce probably really does want to make a live TV network, but I still think the Bitcoin show is a carefully designed effort to keep Bitcoin prices up, probably because Bruce and/or Ed is holding a huge pile of coins that they want to sell off. I bet this is how they are funding the network. Everything they say is just way too on message, "Bitcoins are awesome, they go up forever, never sell them." He never talks about mining or security or anything else "real" bitcoin lovers can't shut up about, just how awesome it is to own Bitcoins. That, and the way he never actually says to buy them (and keeps saying "hey, I don't give financial advice... *wink wink*") is just suspicious as hell.

Personally, I don't care at all about people buying and selling Bitcoins speculatively. It's just gambling. It's like going to a roulette table and dropping everything on black. You'll double your money 48% of the time, who gives a crap. Where I have a problem is when the casino hires a slick talking bastard to stand on the corner and tell people about his great new roulette strategy that's guaranteed to win. That is a scam, and that is what Bruce does. He tells people that they can make guaranteed money playing a negative sum game, and the house is paying him to do it.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2011 18:27

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Oh my God, Atlas is doing the interview as a black silhouette to remain anonymous. I am not kidding.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2011 18:58

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Lolie posted:

There's a "What would it take for you to lose faith in Bitcoins" thread over on their forums. Some of the answers are...interesting.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=23834.0

Including this explanation of why Bitcoins != gold

BTC Economist posted:

Gold is not an appropriate analogy because it has been demanded as a show of opulence for centuries. Yes, gold does not have the practical use of a commodity like oil, but it is still useful (often in a mating context). This property of gold has actually been studied and various shows of opulence have existed across cultures through time.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2011 23:54

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OK, pretty sure Atlas, Atom, or one of their buddies is in chat trying to defend their crazy rear end show. That or another really dedicated troll. If it's one of you, I salute your efforts.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2011 00:22

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Wooo, now we have a guy in the chat claiming to actually be Atlas. I don't even care what's real anymore.

EDIT: Oh crap, he actually confirmed it

# ¿ Jun 29, 2011 01:20

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OK, Bruce is :tinfoil:

ing all over the place today about debt slavery now. I was finally warming up to him yesterday but... :bang:

# ¿ Jun 29, 2011 19:34

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RedTeam posted:

OMG HACKERS

Seriously, whoever did that, you are my hero forever.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2011 22:32

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Iviv posted:

Android Invasion. How many times can we mention Bitcoins?

Let's make it interesting and make a drinking game out of it. Take a shot every mention of Bitcoins in the Android show.

Fake edit: thast wans't a grreat ideasdhassdhakjsdhasd

# ¿ Jun 30, 2011 00:17

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Orange Sunshine posted:

words

If the price of bitcoins has nothing whatsoever to do with the cost of mining them, then why does it coincidentally happen to be so close to it?

OK I'm three hours late (which is like 17 pages or something) but I just can't believe no one called out the obvious fallacy of ANY Bitcoin price-is-based-on-difficulty argument. Guess what guys, the difficulty is 100% artificial. The price of soybeans is related to the cost of growing soybeans because it... actually costs money to grow soybeans. Mining coins only costs money because some algorithm has set an arbitrary difficulty designed to throttle supply. The correlation is real, but you have the causation backwards. If people pay $100 for coins, then more miners will join until they're barely making a profit. On the other hand, if everyone stops buying coins entirely, everyone will stop mining them too, and the difficulty will drop back down to zero. The difficulty follows the price, not the other way around, and the price is based on literally nothing.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2011 07:03

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Amaritudo posted:

Apparently watching a show about Bitcoins, a libertarian device, makes you a social democrat. Go figure.

This is probably the only smart thing I've ever heard him say. The chat room is, in fact, literally 95% full of trolling goons, and it was pretty drat obvious during that episode and in the following chat.

In other news: Goons continue beating dead horse that is Bitcoin morality argument. "I know this horse is dead, but..." reports whip swinging goon. Footage at 11.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2011 18:22

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RedTeam posted:

Might be a bit of a bad time to start a thread seeing as I can't see the chat and that's kind of it's main selling point. I think they might be clamping down

RedTeam, try clearing your cache and refreshing. There's some problem with the chat, even Bruce couldn't log in a few minutes ago.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2011 21:09

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RedTeam posted:

It's still hosed up, and I've tried with several browsers. Unless you can just not see it without being logged in now?

Yeah, you're right. You need to log in to see the chat now :doh:

# ¿ Jun 30, 2011 21:22

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Harik posted:

That's not the only way to manipulate markets. As has been pointed out, a buy-wall is a massive market mover. It's not a serious bid to buy 5000 BTC at $16.50, it's something people won't be able to dump past. Since nobody any lower than $16.50 will ever get any buttcoins, they have to price higher than that, allowing the manipulator to sell to them instead of him. If they bid it high enough he can shift his wall up to $17 and repeat.

One thing that I wonder about though: how quickly can you react to move your wall? If your wall is an order for 5000 BTC and some early adopted does show up and sells 5000 BTC at your price, would you just be stuck buying $80,000 worth of Bitcoins you don't actually want? This seems like a serious risk, unless you can withdraw your orders immediately before they actually go through.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2011 22:14

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Good Citizen posted:

But if you aren't actually buying those coins then your buy order has no effect on the current market price. Only coins sold will effect the market price. If you try to unload and you reach your own buy order and cancel it beforehand, then there was no point in placing it in the first place.

Putting in fake buy orders that you don't actually buy anything at has no effect on the actual market price. And if you're buying at that price then you're either buying from yourself and losing a percentage to commission, or you're buying further into the market.

Sorry, I know I'm doing a horrible job of explaining this, but I just don't see any way you can both prop up the market with false buy orders and unload your stock a the same time. It's an one-or-the-other proposition.

You're probably right in an ideal market of rational investors. This isn't one of those, though. The prop-up wall works if you assume that people are irrationally anxious to buy Bitcoins and have no sense of what they're worth (ie. nothing). When they see the 5000 BTC order at $16.50, they think "That will take days to sell through. Oh no, if I don't bid more than that, it will take forever for me to get my precious, precious nerdmoney. I'd better bid $16.51, right now!" That's one theory, anyway. I'm still not convinced that this would work well, and it sounds like a terribly risky plan to me.

Edit: Beaten like a miner when his parents see the power bill

# ¿ Jun 30, 2011 22:27

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New Bitcoin show starting now.
http://onlyonetv.com/?page_id=178

# ¿ Jul 1, 2011 01:37

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Pead posted:

My bad! at current market rates that would only take a couple years to pay off. OOOOOOPS they only warranty it for a year

Also this:

BitDriller scam posted:

Your investment is good forever, but we'll ask your to upgrade your rig after a year

Totally not a scam.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2011 20:44

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Hey guys, big surprise, they didn't figure out how to use it before they debuted it and now it doesn't work. At least it's not stuck in demo mode I guess.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2011 17:09

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Guys, I don't want to alarm anyone or cause a panic, but I've run the numbers, and

BITCOIN HUMOR IS CRASHING SELL SELL SELL

# ¿ Jul 3, 2011 04:42

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Rudager posted:

The best bit is you can point to Bitcoin as a perfect example of this, people were given a completely regulation free currency and one of the first things they did was establish a pseudo governing body in the form of Mt Gox.

Absolutely this. This is my favorite thing about Bitcoins. They do exactly what the libertards wanted, the Bitcoin system itself works just fine and they're totally free of government regulation. And yet everything about them in practice is totally hosed up and dysfunctional and it took about five minutes for everyone to run crying for controls, regulations, and centralization. It's a beautifully educational experiment, I just wish that the people who need to learn the lesson would figure it out.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2011 04:04

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max4me posted:

Good points. but lets get this thread back on track.

Does anyone here have any bitcoins? Cause if you do, lets see what the folks on the pawn shop show think they are worth.

"Yes, I see here that you have a coin from the first 100 blocks; those are fairly rare. Also I see from the history that this coin is intact and has never been transferred since it was mined, which makes it what we call a 'virgin' coin.

"I would have to say that this is worth precisely jack poo poo."

# ¿ Jul 5, 2011 09:00

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Molotov Cock Tale posted:

Oh God, of course you're right - I'm retarded :/

Still, that wall at 12 has my interest, right now it's at 3606.1 BTC, so $43,273.2 on the bid. I'm expecting it to vanish if it gets sold into, would confirm my suspicions.

You can track trades at http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD_trades.html but it moves fast so it's not much use if you aren't staring at the ticker at all times. I tried to use it yesterday when one of the walls vanished but it had already moved on. I don't know of a better history.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2011 19:01

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waffle posted:

I hope you mined those, and didn't have to buy hugely expensive mining rigs to do so

He's obviously a troll guys. If anyone actually dumped 6000 BTC right now I think we'd notice.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2011 20:31

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Mikeo posted:

What the gently caress?

I love you, Bitcoins, don't ever change.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2011 20:44

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Mt. Gox has now completely frozen. No orders processed for the past 15 minutes. Go team. :downs:

# ¿ Jul 5, 2011 22:11

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Kane, what is the difference between idiots propping the price up and idiots buying because they think the price is "low"? Sounds like you're looking for a semantics slap fight.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2011 22:24

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Kane posted:

One entails a conspiracy, the other people speculating as they do in every financial system. I was wondering if you have any proof or reason to suggest that there's an actual conspiracy to keep prices up rather than people buying it in earnest.

[rear end in a top hat]

Propping up does not require a conspiracy or even bad intentions. A "true believer" might well prop up the market just because he doesn't want it to fail, even if he has to pay to keep it afloat.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2011 22:32

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LongDarkNight posted:

God, how is it going back up to 13? On a side note someone in chat said Ed stomped on the BitCopter. Please say that isn't true, I'd feel bad if we broke up Bruce and Ed.

E: I should have just waited 4 minutes for it to crash again.

It's true. Ed stomped on the copter and then confessed that Felix the intern has been chained up in the basement all week. Then we all went for Meze Grill burritos and rode a rocket train up a rainbow to the moon.

Everything anybody says in the chat is a lie, and don't you forget it.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2011 23:06

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Kane posted:

It makes no sense to you. Where are you getting the idea that these are necessarily people who are "scared" rather than new money going into the system at a price they think is right?

Of course it happens at every dip. That's how the market works.

Anyway, I see that you are basing this on nothing beyond your desire for this to be true, so whatever.

Don't you see guys, the price of Bitcoins right now has to be correct and there's no way it's inflated because free markets are perfect and bubbles aren't real things at all.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2011 23:46

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 06:58

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Kane posted:

I am not assuming anything. It might as well be a great conspiracy by MtGox itself.
What's weird to me are your strong words that lack any sort of backing what-so-ever. The only reason I asked is because you seem so convinced I thought you might have some data or proof, but you don't.

Kane, if you're just going to ignore everyone else's posts it's just a matter of time before we all return the favor. Several people explained how "propping up" is not an accusation of some vast conspiracy and you are essentially arguing with straw men at this point.

In other news, my opponents said something crazy and wrong. Aren't they crazy and wrong? Footage at 11.

e: VVVV Sorry, your "great conspiracy" comment made me think you were still going on about the conspiracy

# ¿ Jul 6, 2011 00:00

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