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Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
I thought I'd be cool with a remake of VII, up until someone in the thread mentioned voice-acting and I had to reconsider. I only have the Dissidia games to work with out of recent memory, but Cloud's VA is loving obnoxious. I don't know whether it's him or whoever's directing, but he's just so flat all the time and he pauses randomly mid-sentence for no reason. Like if you've got subtitles on, there's no punctuation or anything to indicate that he might stop talking but he just does, and there's no reason to think Square would deviate from this since they've stuck with it. I'd be fine if they just overhauled the graphics and ported it to either DS or PSP (or hell, both), but implementing voice acting would be a pretty big turn-off.

Anyway, looking foward to this. I tried playing it again a couple years ago and couldn't make it to the first boss because it was so ugly and stiff. Hopefully the abridged version will rekindle some fond memories without actually having to slog through myself.

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Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

Oxxidation posted:

The relationship between Cloud and Aeris as it stands in FF7 is actually really good. It's low-key but still poignant, and most importantly, it doesn't make Aeris into a peppy arbiter of LOVE & PEACE whose affection for Cloud is an absolute good and he would so totally be into it if he stopped being such a grump (I hate FFVIII's love story so much).

Rather, as we've just seen, it mostly involves Aeris dealing with the fact that she's into Cloud for some pretty hosed-up reasons, and that Cloud himself isn't totally five-o in the head either. It's a lot more sober than you'd expect from JRPG's, especially at the time.

I don't know, man. I replayed this over the last couple months and ultimately Aeris and Cloud just struck me as creepy as gently caress. Not that I think that Tifa's a sterling alternative to the flower girl, either. I guess it's fitting actually that the relationships in this game should be as hosed up as the rest of it.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

Die Laughing posted:

Just played Chocobo Hot and Cold for the first time this play through, and it's just as fun as I remembered.

CH&C owns, it's my favorite minigame of the series. Yeah it's simple, but considering that every other FF minigame is "simple + awful controls for the sake of making things harder (when they're not inane poo poo like frog-catching or lightning-dodging)," then I'll take CH&C any day.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

RyuujinBlueZ posted:

I've read through several pages since the last update, and I haven't seen anyone else say this, so...Am I the only one who was actually glad Aeris was gone?

The first time I played this, my 14- or 15-year old self would have felt about the same. She just struck me as boring/annoying, and an obstacle for Cloud hooking up with Tits- I mean Tifa. Reading this LP has been nice for allowing me to look at things from a different perspective, and she's actually a cooler character than I gave her credit for all these years. At the end of the day though, sucks that she had to die, but at this point I'm not too upset about it. It is what it is.

On a similar note, this scene also didn't really trigger any hardcore uber hatred towards Sephiroth in me. If I remember correctly, he didn't ever have much of an impact on me at all outside of looking kinda cool, but I thought Vincent pulled that off better (feel free to start ignoring me now :v:) but that was about it. His personality, such as it is presented to the player, just seemed extremely hollow, like he wasn't really there, which is something I want to come back to later as the LP progresses. IIRC, I don't even think it's even important, poignant, or correct, just the conclusion I came to as a teenager.

Also chiming in as another to have had Aeris' death spoiled by the Brady guide. Somehow I failed at reading correctly and thought the guide hinted at being able to prevent her death, but I think they just said that you stop Cloud from doing it (which isn't even true) and I interpreted it incorrectly. Just one more reason why the Versus guide was better, as I recall they just had a little blurb saying "poo poo's about go down, here's the boss info, we'll see you on disc 2".

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

TheOneTrueKing posted:

As funny as this is, Jenova wasn't out of her cell in Shinra Tower the first two times we saw the Helicopter. (President Shinra uses it to leave Sector 5 reactor, Tseng uses it to taunt Cloud with the kidnapped Aries.)

This means, luckily, we do not need to worry about Jenova-class aircraft assaults.

That's assuming there's only one Jenova moving around in any given area at any given time. Maybe heli-Jenova was the one who released the Jenova in the tube.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
I always give Red the Black Materia because why not give him one more thing to be a whiny bitch about. You helped cause Armageddon you big baby, how does it feel?

Also somehow I never noticed that Sephiroth doesn't exist from the waist down. Must have been really focused on the Materia going into the cocoon or something.

Also also disappointed that Square went with giving Sephiroth the reins in the Seph-Jenova relationship. Part of it is admittedly anti-Sephiroth fanboyism, but I think it would be more interesting to have Jenova abusing the image and knowledge of the most feared/respected person around than having him make a shape-shifting planet-wrecking alien his bitch. Although, Hojo could be giving us more false information based on faulty conjecture...right?

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
IIRC one of the Triad in FF6 also bore a similar design to (FF8's) Ultima, with the lower body having a face in the chest and then another torso growing up from that. Yeah, looking at the wiki looks like it was Demon/Poltrgeist, although this incarnation was armed with a halberd and had feathery wings and armor. Neat design, I think it's cool that it got some reuse.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
With very few exceptions, Square creates the absolute worst minigames and FFX was the culmination of every terrible minigame idea they've ever had. You primarily make RPGs, Square. Throw in some side-quests with actual puzzles if you feel dungeon-diving and monster-slaying aren't different enough from the main game. Please stop making lovely, repetitive, poorly-controlled, frustrating barricades to the (arguably? I honestly forget if you can craft better items in X) best equipment in the game.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

XyloJW posted:

Don't tell Squaresoft to make more puzzles, please! Especially in regards to FFX. Those temple puzzles were awful and tedious.

After the loving clock puzzles in FF13-2, I hope they give up on puzzles completely.

I recently finished the last of the clock puzzles in 13-2, I guess I must have banished them from memory. Yeah suggesting puzzles to Square isn't really a good idea either, but aside from that, minigames, and just dungeon-diving, what else is there to add variety? Personally I'm fine with killing monsters but I imagine other people would want something different every now and then.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

Boob Dylan posted:

The best minigame was FFIX's Chocobo Hot and Cold and I will not hear otherwise :colbert:

They should just make this and Triple Triad (sans the terrible rules) the de facto series minigames. They're never gonna do any better.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

Enormatron posted:

I'd like to be competent in the Monster Arena and I really need Wakka's stuff for that.

For what it's worth, Wakka was the only character I whose celestial weapon I never bothered with my first time through the game (yeah I got Lulu's, never again :suicide:) and I found the Monster Arena to be doable without him. He'll make it easier, but it's nowhere near impossible without him.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
X isn't one of my favorite FF games, but the things I feel it really has going for it are the CTB system and the Sphere Grid.

I love CTB for the amount of control it grants the player in combat. Time effectively stops during each turn, so you don't lose time while actions are being queued and animated as you would with ATB. Speed is now a very important stat and prioritizing it (Sphere Grid allowing) can lead to many player actions taken to a given monster's one. The turn queue also gives you a heads up on whether you should nuke the poo poo out of your enemy with an action with a longer recovery or use a faster ability that will let you get one more hit in before the monster can act again. It all plays out slower than say X-2, XII, or XIII where almost everything happens all at the same time, but I really prefer CTB due to how precise it is, and I think it's a shame it's only been used (to my knowledge) in X, Tactics, and Phantom Brave.

As for the Sphere Grid, I like grinding, I like min/maxing, and I hate random stats on level up and the Grid has all these things covered. You can pick and choose which stats a character prioritizes (again, Grid allowing), or take the slower method by activating all nodes you come across while waiting for specific spheres to become available. The activation spheres are the main problem with the system, I think. IIRC early on in the game there's a dearth of Ability spheres, so if you were out of those but wanted to activate an ability without using sphere levels to backtrack, your progress through the grid would stop until you got those spheres. This was probably done to discourage extreme grinding, but it's still pretty obnoxious imo. I think the only nodes that really need their own resources are the locks; everything else should be "Are you here? Cool, activate me". They could have done that and used more Lock nodes to prevent early progress if they wanted to curb grinding. But eventually you get to the point where you can remap the grid to your liking and it's all grindtastic goodness from there on out.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

morallyobjected posted:

There is an alternate method that's coincidental to something he'll already be doing, so there's not a whole lot of reason to do it unless he wants to have the reward twice. Though honestly leveling up the materia isn't that bad in the end game if you cheese it a certain way.

I think you mean doing it as many times as you have the slots to accommodate the reward. :getin:

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

That loving Sned posted:

E: I guess cure spells are only good for light wounds, then? Maybe it's difficult to perform precise surgery with something that flows from your hands.

Maybe Tifa got poisoned somehow (does 7 have a bleed/seizure status like 6 did?) and all Zangan had on him was Cure. He had to get her to the doctor before he ran out of MP. :v:

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

Twelve by Pies posted:

I definitely don't like the whole "You will be my living legacy" thing from Zack though, that's pretty ridiculous. Cloud's whole deal was he felt like a failure and looked up to Zack and so he latched on to that identity from the stories he heard from Zack, it just feels wrong for part of the reason for Cloud to have gotten that identity is "Zack told me to do it."

This right here. On top of feeling out of character for Zack, just what a loving awful thing to say to anyone. "Hey, there might be a chance you wake up and remember who you are and go back to following your own dreams, but gently caress that you're gonna do my thing now because I'm dying." Man those lines rub me the wrong way. I actually liked the Limit Reel thing breaking down merging gameplay and narrative, and then this came along to sour it. Ugh.

Although I guess it is in keeping with everyone in FF7 is hosed up.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

ImpAtom posted:

CC is one of those games I only played in Japanese so I don't really know how the English version handles it but at least in the Japanese version Zack flat-out tells Cloud "continuing living, you're living proof that my life had meaning as long as you remember me. Follow your own dreams. Also take care of Aerith." There's a line in the video I posted above which translates to "hold on to your own dreams and never stop reaching for them."

I think it's supposed to be ironic because Cloud promptly fails at doing every single one of those things, because he's Cloud Strife and he isn't really good at not loving up. Since it's modern S-E writing I'm not sure it was intended that way but it's funnier this way so I prefer to believe it.

It's specifically the line "My honor, my dreams, they're yours now" that bugs me. It just came across as weirdly selfish and egotistical from a guy who was up until then pretty selfless, but I suppose it comes down to how you interpret it. I do agree with the second part there though, probably just a happy coincidence on Square's part.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
If you're going to make a game with turn-based combat, use CTB and do not have any party members controlled by AI. If you're making an action-based game, balance it around the player character and do not implement an AI party.

If your game utilizes random encounters, have an option or special item that allows you to ignore them that is available from the get-go. This setting should only be able to be changed from a designated safe area, and not in the middle of a dungeon. If your game has set encounters, make them all avoidable. No inescapable non-boss battles.

FF IX- or Etrian Odyssey 3/4-style character roles.

No experience gain for killing bosses.

Non-random stat gains on level up.

Have side-quests out the rear end, but no mini-games.

Pretty short, but these are the items I would have at the top of my list for an ideal RPG.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
It was probably just the translator having a brain fart on commas and periods. "Attack while the tail's up, it's gonna counterattack with its laser" would read a lot better, especially since the lines separate in-game at the pause, and you have to wait for the next part of the conversation to come up by itself. Having "Attack while the tail's up." all by itself looks like the game is telling you to do that, while "Attack while the tail's up," would have let the player know that there's more information on the way.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

Pesky Splinter posted:

Here's some early artwork. Some of the designs ended up as random NPCs like the Red Mage. It also contained some more early FF references (the circle of sages, horned Garland, etc), and seemingly, a job system.

I can't find anything directly saying about FFIX's original development, unfortunately.

Oh man I remember some of these showing up in an old-rear end magazine, PSM I think. The different style dragoons were pretty neat, I imagined them having different abilities depending on which dragon you aligned with (and the possbilites of having that kind of system with every job...), but it was probably just a cosmetic male/female thing. I'd really like to see a job-based FF game where the deities you follow affect your appearance and your skills, like Ifrit, Shiva, and Ramuh bolstering their respective magics for Black Mages; or Sylph boosting Cure spells, Carbuncle reducing costs and increasing lengths of buffs, and Phoenix granting bonuses to Raise and fire immunity for White Mages. Those examples are pretty simple, but it sounds neat in my head.

Also that dragon dinner picture is great, why didn't we get dragon npcs/village in IX? :(

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

McDragon posted:

Behold, the Blitz input for the port:


Now, I haven't actually played it so maybe it works out ok, but I can't see that being fun to do at all on a touchscreen.

As long as you have all the time in the world for the inputs, I don't see why it would be a problem. Just hit each arrow individually instead of trying to do them in a motion, works the same on a dpad. How are the X/Y/shoulder buttons handled though?

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

I don't understand why they think they haven't topped FF7 yet. They did it two games later :smug:.

Tactics was the next game released after 7. One game later would be more accurate.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
13 had a neat battle system which was p much the game's only saving grave (other than the soundtrack, but that's not really gameplay related). 12's battle system was hot garbage and killed for me what looked like a cool game. What I'm getting at here is 13's combat + 12's everything else = why didn't Square make this instead of both games individually?

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
Coming from Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts, Cloud's English VA is so goddamned annoying to listen to. I'm assuming it's just that he has to try to match up what he says with the model talking somewhat, but he pauses mid-sentence all the time for no good reason. Squall, whose dialogue in FFVIII consisted of "..." making up about half of his lines, can speak full, uninterrupted sentences but Cloud is lucky if he can go 5 words without pausing somewhere. Oh, and thanks to the EU, he has to deliver his lines as flatly as possible.

Now imagine a game where Cloud is the main character and speaks all the loving time in this fashion.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
Casting my vote for The Memory Hub. I think it's only fair that one of the least remembered/understood parts of the game gets some special recognition.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
Another backup vote for Stairs.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

MelvinBison posted:

I thought he was talking to Seifer.

This interpretation is even more unforgivable. :colbert:

On the subject of Shadow, if you're given an option, there's usually a reason for it to exist. You might not know that waiting allows Shadow to catch up, but you lose nothing by waiting around and you won't even get attacked if you just sit there. But no, the only reason "wait" could have possibly been an option was so you could run around on a tiny-rear end chunk of crumbling island for the hell of it. I mean poo poo, you get a save point right before Atma iirc, get blown up just to see if you get a different Game Over screen or something, it won't take you that long to get caught up.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

Some Numbers posted:

7's and 8's are better than this. :colbert:

I really wish Force Your Way's Ultimate chart in Theatrhythm wasn't so insanely difficult so I could play it all day long and not feel like garbage. At least there's The Man with the Machine Gun for ego support. :unsmith:

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
Fisherman's Horizon is the epitome of bland. By far my least favorite track in the game. And they put it in Curtain Call. :negative:

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

Code Jockey posted:

Also, I unironically love FFXIII's battle theme, say what you will about that game but that's a solid song.

The music is by far the best thing about the XIII series, and I mean that as a sincere compliment. I hope SE keeps the guys responsible around, they did some fantastic work.

Arcade Rabbit posted:

I love 13's music in general, but yeah the battle theme is amazing. I'm a sucker for violins, so having them take the forefront in a battle theme is really nice. Some of the slower songs for scene setting are really nice too.

It's kinda funny how XIII did the violins right and Chrono Cross did them so loving poorly. That CC battle theme. :suicide:

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWGZFG7HhnI
Possibly my favorite song from XIII, and I'm pretty bummed it didn't get chosen for Theatrhythm (but they got Sunleth Waterscape, Dust to Dust, and Gapra Whitewood in there so I can't complain too much). I don't know if I could choose a single favorite from across all the games, but this song, Dancing Mad, Aria Di Mezzo Carattere, One-Winged Angel AC, Force Your Way, and You're Not Alone! would all be pretty high up there.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

CmdrKing posted:

The Black Mages are really swingy I find. I love their version of Dancing Mad

I agree for the most part, but I hate the organ(?) they use for the first half of the Kefka section. To me it sounds like clown music or something, which I guess is fitting thematically since Kefka's involved but it really kills the mood of the song for me. At least they go back to the good organ for the finale.

Also I think this is a really good cover. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUMER1huXSU

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

Patter Song posted:

I asked for Final Fantasy V and VI 3DS

If I had thought of these I might have asked for them instead of a re-release/HD remaster of Parasite Eve. Maybe.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

SonicRulez posted:

FFXII is easily the worst FF I've ever played (which includes 2, 3, 8, and 13) by a long shot. I couldn't enjoy that game no matter how hard I tried. If they wanted an MMO, why not just make it an addition to what they already had with XI?

It's funny, my main beef with FF XII was that it felt too much like an MMO when at the time I wanted another turn-based game. FFX had THE best battle system imo, so coming from that to XII didn't help acclimate me to XII at all. The weird thing is that even though it's taken me an unreasonably long time, I'm still playing Xenoblade Chronicles, I'm enjoying it, and I'm tentatively looking forward to XCX. They're not quite the same game but the battle systems are similar, and for some reason I find Xenoblade's to be much more palatable (although I've restarted both games twice after having bumpy beginnings... at least I'm going to actually finish Xenoblade). I think XII felt like too much work with making sure your Gambits are appropriate for whatever you're doing at the time, while with Xenoblade you can put whatever looks cool on your Arts Palette and make it work. I could be wrong there, but XII just felt like a lot of extra poo poo to manage I never wanted, while XC was easier to swallow since I had no preconceptions about what I was getting into. Although if there had been any XII comparisons made to XC, I might have skipped it entirely. "Best JRPG since forever" was literally the only thing I'd heard about it, and I was naive enough to think anyone was still making turn-based games.

Also kinda funny, I don't think I could actually handle a new turn-based game nowadays. I got burnt out on Pokemon Y about halfway through a year or two ago and I doubt I'll ever get back to it.

Hunter Noventa posted:

The worst parts of both FFTA and FFTA2 wasn't the Law System (though it's a very close second in FFTA), it's the way you learn abilities from equipment. The distribution of gear feels very random, and without exploiting things like the Auction House or Steal, it's hard to get good abilities and unlock better jobs.

I don't think learning from items was that bad, my problem was that due to gaining a handful of AP only at the end of battles, learning anything took forever. 9 had a similar learning system and even though battles in that game took longer than they should have at least they weren't SRPG battles. Although I can see availability of gear/abilities being a problem, I never finished either TA game so maybe they did an abysmal job with how they gated stuff.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

Thunderbro posted:

ye olde "shoehorn a mascot character" so prevalent in japanese media

nobody liked cait sith

I like Cait Sith. :colbert:

Just not enough to keep him in my party after Yuffie and Vincent show up. If it were possible to ditch Cloud I'd do it just to bounce around the screen riding a big fat moogle.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

Benson Cunningham posted:

You spelled Cid wrong.

You spelled lovely rear end in a top hat wrong.

magikid posted:

One of the most fun playthroughs I've ever done was with Barret and Cait Sith. Guy's got absolute loads of HP and MP and a pretty good magic stat. I mean powergaming's all about the limit breaks and he sure sucks there, but you don't always have to be powergaming. Good stuff.

Yeah, since I roll with Vincent I just ignore his Limit most of the time anyway. Not a fan of Slots myself, but at least Dice doesn't lock Cait Sith out of being useful for the rest of the fight.

Vanrushal fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Jun 8, 2015

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

Frocobo posted:

I know this is kinda a weird thing to wish for, but I hope Cloud's ultimate weapon in the remake is an "upgraded" buster sword. It has so much emotional weight (unintentional pun) behind it, being pretty much the strongest link between Cloud and Zack that it being the default, pitiful replace-as-soon-as-you-get-something-better-and-never-look-back weapon always seemed wrong on a few levels.

I joked with a friend that Remake won't allow you to change weapons so the Buster Sword will always be the best sword ever. I get where you're coming from though, it'd be neat to have like a sidequest tied to powering it up (Nibleheim flashback seems like the perfect spot). If memory serves you can't ever actually get rid of the Buster Sword at least, despite not needing it anymore from a gameplay perspective.

As long as I get to run around with the Hardedge, however briefly, I'll be happy. Also I hope that Cait Sith's VA gives unique vocal commands to the moogle for every battle action. That alone would make the game for me.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

NikkolasKing posted:

Snow acts like a cardboard cutout because that is what he's trying to be. He clearly thinks he's in a shounen fighting anime. In fact, his desire to be a hero reminds me very strongly of another white trenchcoat- wearing FF character. It's no coincidence I liked both him and Seifer quite a lot. In fact, Troy Baker would be a great voice for Seifer. Although, if Square hates the world enough, and they remake FFVIII with voice-acting, I'd be okay with Will Friedle reprising his role. That guy is awesome and should do more voices in games that aren't Kingdom Hearts II.

Man what even is there to like at all about Seifer? He sucks. That's like, his thing. The only thing he manages to do right in the entire game is kill Odin, which I feel is incongruous with everything about him up to that point. Like the biggest piece of character development for him that I recall is you kick his rear end during the parade, Edea has to clean up the mess, then Squall wakes up chained to a wall and suddenly Seifer thinks he's hot poo poo because he's in no immediate danger of getting destroyed again, and the funny part is I think Seifer thinks he earned it somehow. His "grand romantic dream" basically boils down to "I want to hook up with the most powerful being in existence and pretend I'm on equal footing." It kinda feels like Square wanted to do another Gilgamesh/Ultros kind of deal with the recurring nuisance fights, but they replaced "goofy and endearing" with "pathetic rear end in a top hat". Fuujin and Raijin fit that role I guess, but Seifer manages to make them suck by association. He's probably my least favorite character in the entire series, but unlike, say Algus who really earns any hate sent his way, Seifer manages to be the worst just by being worthless yet still showing up anyway. poo poo even Xenogears' Ramsus is sympathetic to a degree, Seifer is just regular pathetic.

Also as soon as you learn that Rinoa and Seifer used to be an item, that's all you need to know that they're both terrible people.

Also also I'm not trying to pick on you NK, I just don't understand what is likable about the guy is all. I guess he's got a nice coat, but that's not really a character trait. :shrug:

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!

NikkolasKing posted:

As for his accomplishments, you might recall Seifer busted in and had the President dead to rights about a minute after our heroes failed spectacularly in their own mission to try and kidnap Deling.

It's been a while since the last time I played 8, but wasn't he on the verge of telling the world that he was working for Balamb before Edea showed up and whisked him away to romantic dreamland? Even if he was trying to do something helpful, he was still loving up.

quote:

But Seifer's character arc is not one of accomplishing anything. You bring up Ramsus and that's a comparable antagonist. They're both blatantly being used by the other villains but they're so hung up on their own issues and obsessions that they don't really care or see it. Seifer and Squall's character evolution is one of the few things FFVIII did well. As Squall develops and grows, Seifer just constantly collapses and falls apart. By the end, Squall is a fairly well-adjusted person and Seifer is a psychological wreck just kept going by determination and an unwillingness to accept the reality of his situation.

It helps Seifer is one of about three or four characters in the entire game who changes at all.

Mostly I love Seifer for how "Heroic" he is. In most other games, he would be the main protagonist. Boisterous blond badass with a sword who charges straight into conflict without thinking, he's right out of a shounen anime. He even does think of himself as the hero of the game, a Knight to protect the Sorceresses. Meanwhile, sulky, silent, unpleasant Squall is the real hero and even though he wants no part of it originally, he's drawn into becoming a Sorceress' Knight as well. I always enjoyed that, how Seifer jumped at fulfilling that role while Squall "grew" into it. It's a perfect summary of who they are as characters.

Okay, part of my problem with Seifer is that I went into the game expecting an Opposite Yet Equal deal with Squall and was quite disappointed when I felt that wasn't the case. As a Completely Opposite character, then yes he does very well at his role, but parts of it are inconsistent. You get the opening cinematic where he gets the upper hand on Squall, taking the President hostage, and killing Odin, but the rest of the game he's just ineffective (like I said it's been a while, I may have forgotten things). I'm not sure that I'd agree that he's particularly heroic; I'm hung up on the term anti-hero but I don't think that's what I'm looking for. Like in this line of thought I'd compare him to Handsome Jack, in that yeah they're both convinced they're doing The Right Thing, but it's obvious Jack's a villain and Seifer picked the wrong team and refused to quit. Also he treats everyone except whichever sorceress he's clinging to at the time like poo poo iirc. Does he ever treat Fuujin and Raijin like friends rather than underlings at any point?

darealkooky posted:

he decided to learn and master the stupidest weapon in the world because of a play he really liked, and copied a bunch of his movements from it

Squall's weapons look fairly sane compared to Hyperion. Wielding a sword whose blade is at a 90 degree angle with the grip looks like the most awkward thing ever.

Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
Well poo poo. You win this one, Seifer.

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Vanrushal
Apr 2, 2005

I thought my Spitter was a Jockey!
Vague...rant... paris...sight
...HDeeeeee...

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