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hayden. posted:I'd still wear a full face even if it meant only a 10% higher chance at surviving. I'm fairly sold on them as well, more for the "don't want my face scraped off" factor - but the constant mockery of everything outside the CA hive-mind is pretty tiring.
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Jul 8, 2011 13:59
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Backov posted:the constant mockery of everything outside the CA hive-mind is pretty tiring. This would be valid if the "hive mind" mocked people for something trivial, but when the issue is a refusal to take the most basic of safety precautions mockery is warranted.
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Jul 8, 2011 14:31
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Backov posted:I'm fairly sold on them as well, more for the "don't want my face scraped off" factor - but the constant mockery of everything outside the CA hive-mind is pretty tiring. We only mock because we're right 
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Jul 8, 2011 14:32
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Backov posted:...but the constant mockery of everything outside the CA hive-mind is pretty tiring. You've been around a year and haven't figured out SA yet? 
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Jul 8, 2011 14:58
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MonkeyHate posted:On why a novelty skullcap helmet is at least 90% as good as a DOT full-face: "I read on a legit site that if a biker were to get in a wreck that was bad enough for the integrity of the helmet to be a factor in head trauma, then more than 90% of the time there would be at least one other fatal injury on the body." I hate it when I fatally injure body parts. 
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Jul 8, 2011 15:22
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Can anyone explain the origin of the old school fear of the front brake? I've heard it a million times from old guys, but I've never understood why they think touching the lever will send them flying over the bars.
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Jul 8, 2011 15:59
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MourningGlory posted:Can anyone explain the origin of the old school fear of the front brake? I've heard it a million times from old guys, but I've never understood why they think touching the lever will send them flying over the bars. What happens if your front tire suddenly stops spinning? It's obvious, isn't it? 
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Jul 8, 2011 16:02
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MourningGlory posted:Can anyone explain the origin of the old school fear of the front brake? I've heard it a million times from old guys, but I've never understood why they think touching the lever will send them flying over the bars. Old guys who barely know how to ride hold stupid beliefs based around their lack of knowledge. Go riding with your local cruiser accountants/dentists group sometime. Make sure you ride at the back of the pack and just watch the stupidity. I was floored the first time I did it. The thought that people who have been riding for longer than I've been alive still can't navigate a turn, ride at walking speed, do a u-turn, swerve/panic break correctly, identify potential trouble up ahead, etc... just blew my mind. Most of the people out there riding bikes have absolutely no clue what they are doing. They just hang on to the handle bars, point in the direction they want to go, and give it some gas.
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Jul 8, 2011 16:10
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Backov posted:I'm fairly sold on them as well, more for the "don't want my face scraped off" factor - but the constant mockery of everything outside the CA hive-mind is pretty tiring. So how should we feel about kaiser helmets and fear of using the front brake?
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Jul 8, 2011 16:30
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Loucks posted:This would be valid if the "hive mind" mocked people for something trivial, but when the issue is a refusal to take the most basic of safety precautions mockery is warranted. I would consider a brain bucket to be, literally, the most basic of safety precautions.
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Jul 8, 2011 16:38
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Kaiser helmets are a bit squiddy but the front break is pretty obvious.. Stoppies.
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Jul 8, 2011 16:44
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MourningGlory posted:Can anyone explain the origin of the old school fear of the front brake? I've heard it a million times from old guys, but I've never understood why they think touching the lever will send them flying over the bars. I would guess it's because locking the rear isn't a big deal, but locking the front will make you crash. Those guys probably don't know to release and re-engage the front brake if it locks, so they crash constantly any time they panic brake.
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Jul 8, 2011 16:49
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Also the fact cruisers are generally heavier and have a lower & more rearward weight distribution makes them more likely to break traction on heavy front braking where sport bikes will just start to endo. Your tail starts to lift, you can let off & reapply. The front washes out and "you had to lay 'er down." It's a lot easier to save face by saying that and/or blaming the front brake than it is to admit you have no idea how to safely stop your bike in an emergency situation.
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Jul 8, 2011 16:58
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I have no problem using the front brake on my cruiser, my idiot buddy thinks its a death lever and so he locks up his rear wheel all the time. He will crash one day into another vehicle. I love the front brake.
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Jul 8, 2011 17:15
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Boat posted:Also the fact cruisers are generally heavier and have a lower & more rearward weight distribution makes them more likely to break traction on heavy front braking where sport bikes will just start to endo. You can grab a LOT of front brake on a cruiser without locking - those 600+ lbs put a lot of traction on that front wheel. When I emergency brake my vstar, the rear is the one most at risk of locking. I imagine the myth about front brakes comes more from folks doing dumb poo poo or not using proper technique, like braking mid-swerve or not settling the suspension before braking hard. Honestly though I've never met anybody who rides rear brake only, I suspect that myth is pretty much dead and has become more of a meta myth among those who look down their nose at cruiser riders. Most of the Harley dudes I ride with sometimes have upgraded front brakes, even.
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Jul 8, 2011 17:30
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clutchpuck posted:You can grab a LOT of front brake on a cruiser without locking - those 600+ lbs put a lot of traction on that front wheel. When I emergency brake my vstar, the rear is the one most at risk of locking. Oh without a doubt. It's just more of, given really bad braking techniques, cruisers are more likely to wash out the front than other types of bikes which will go tail up before that happens (given decent road conditions). Good to hear that front brake = death is not really a thing so much as a myth. Maybe it was passed down from dudes with those old-school super-long-forked choppers with the tiny skinny front wheels? 
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Jul 8, 2011 17:45
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clutchpuck posted:Honestly though I've never met anybody who rides rear brake only, I suspect that myth is pretty much dead and has become more of a meta myth among those who look down their nose at cruiser riders. Most of the Harley dudes I ride with sometimes have upgraded front brakes, even. Me and a bunch of the AI/CA folks went for a ride up Angeles Crest a year or 2 ago, and on the way up the road was closed due to a fatal accident. A gentleman on a Ducati was killed when a Harley rider attempted to catch up to his friends, went wide on a corner and ran into the oncoming lane, hitting the Ducati rider. He was alive enough to get a lifeflight out, but I don't know what happened to him in the end. Guy on the Ducati was 55 years old, had been riding for decades, didn't do anything wrong, was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. On the way back down, we arrived on the scene of another accident, basically as it occurred (the guys at the front of our caravan saw the bike slide to a stop). There was a long tunnel that leads to a gentle, sweeping left hander, with a ~2 foot high rock retaining wall on the outside. My best guess is that the Harley rider had punched it through the tunnel to listen to freedom of his pipes, popped out, seen the corner, and locked the rear brake all the way into the rock wall. The skid mark from the rear tire had to be ~150-200 feet long, and ended at the rock wall. He had broken something in his leg, and left a perfect half circle of blood with some hair on the top of the wall where his face had smacked into it. I have, however, never been so proud of the group I was with. By the time I got my kickstand down, one of the AI goons was already sprinting to the rider with a first aid kit, directing him to keep laying down, not to move, that he'd be ok, and 2 of the other guys ripped up the road to get to a place with cell phone reception to call for an ambulance. The moral of this story is, though: The rear brake disk was blued and the pads were nearly worn down, the front brakes had never been bedded in. They're out there. By the very nature of people who post on an internet forum about motorcycles, especially one as obscure and elitist as SA, we're a group of people who is more likely to think about riding technique, get training, etc. We're the minority of riders here, and it's really nice to surround ourselves with other like minded riders, the truth is that the majority of riders have no interest in proper braking, training, or anything else.
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Jul 8, 2011 17:50
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For what it's worth and maybe I am playing devil's advocate a bit, I go through pads at a rate of about 2:1 front:rear. And rotors... well I've never replaced my rear rotor which makes sense since the fronts do something like 3/4 the work. So it does look ragged compared with my fronts at this point but last inspection had it in spec. If I went down, one might draw a similar conclusion based on a quick glance at my machine.
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Jul 8, 2011 17:59
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Backov posted:I'm fairly sold on them as well, more for the "don't want my face scraped off" factor - but the constant mockery of everything outside the CA hive-mind is pretty tiring. Put another way, there are probably a fair number of riders here who can provide first-hand accounts of their utility in a crash. These are people who are no longer vulnerable to received opinion, which is more or less the point of this thread. The human bod does some amazing stuff in flight, and it only gets better when it returns to earth. It may seem a little counter-intuitive to think that with a set of guns and broad shoulders it would even be possible to make pavement contact with the side of your head, let alone slide for some distance on it. It happens. If there were a gallery of helmet aftermath photos, I believe few would show damage at the very top, which is the skullcap's forte. If a hive-mind existed here, I'd probably be on my SV-650 listening to Avenged Sevenfold on my way to hook up with somebody's hot 21 year old sister right now. None of those appear to be happening, but the day is young...
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Jul 8, 2011 18:04
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clutchpuck posted:For what it's worth and maybe I am playing devil's advocate a bit, I go through pads at a rate of about 2:1 front:rear. And rotors... well I've never replaced my rear rotor which makes sense since the fronts do something like 3/4 the work. So it does look ragged compared with my fronts at this point but last inspection had it in spec. If I went down, one might draw a similar conclusion based on a quick glance at my machine. I spent a solid 30 minutes looking over the bike, because there wasn't poo poo else to do while we waited for EMS. The bike had 15k or so on it, but when I said they'd never been bedded in, I meant it. There was no wear on the front rotor. There's a visible, distinct difference on solid front rotors between the wear surface and the rest of the rotor when the rotor has been used even lightly at speed, and this rotor looked like it had come fresh out of the box. I was sort of amazed, but at the same time, I was only looking at it because he'd put the bike into a wall in a corner that even a harley could navigate at ~80mph. Marv Hushman posted:Put another way, there are probably a fair number of riders here who can provide first-hand accounts of their utility in a crash. These are people who are no longer vulnerable to received opinion, which is more or less the point of this thread. The human bod does some amazing stuff in flight, and it only gets better when it returns to earth. It may seem a little counter-intuitive to think that with a set of guns and broad shoulders it would even be possible to make pavement contact with the side of your head, let alone slide for some distance on it. It happens. If there were a gallery of helmet aftermath photos, I believe few would show damage at the very top, which is the skullcap's forte.  Totally gonna wear a skullcap at the track from now on. Oh wait: 
Z3n fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jul 8, 2011 |
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Jul 8, 2011 18:07
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Z3n posted:
The few...the proud...the Jesus, how did you manage that one?
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Jul 8, 2011 18:16
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One of the big trucks the Navy uses all the time here in San Diego threw a pebble into my Bell Star a few days ago on the freeway. Stunned me enough that I pulled over at the next exit to figure out what the hell just happened. No way in hell I would ever wear a brain bucket or something that wasn't full face. Hitting bugs at 80-90 would hurt like hell too.
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Jul 8, 2011 18:19
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A Duck! posted:One of the big trucks the Navy uses all the time here in San Diego threw a pebble into my Bell Star a few days ago on the freeway. Agreed--never owned one, but wished I had one for about 30 seconds once. Then again, a bee was lodged in my temple area at the time. Speaking of hive...mind...[rimshot]
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Jul 8, 2011 18:25
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Recent posts in this thread have me wondering if there has ever been a proper riding techniques thread on CA. For example, I find myself riding with a very 'motocross' style, elbows out and throwing the bike into turns. I think I get away with this because I ride a standard and I'm quite big, but I don't know if it's the right way to ride. I suppose riding style is more of a 'whatever works for you' kinda thing, but with all the people who regularly race and have many years of experience I wonder if making a thread about it would make sense. Or it could have already been made and I'm blind.
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Jul 8, 2011 18:37
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Mcqueen posted:Recent posts in this thread have me wondering if there has ever been a proper riding techniques thread on CA. For example, I find myself riding with a very 'motocross' style, elbows out and throwing the bike into turns. I think I get away with this because I ride a standard and I'm quite big, but I don't know if it's the right way to ride. I suppose riding style is more of a 'whatever works for you' kinda thing, but with all the people who regularly race and have many years of experience I wonder if making a thread about it would make sense. I think this is an excellent idea! I noticed that my turns were getting wider and then I realized that I was forgetting to look through the turns. It is amazing how much tighter my turns are now that I remember to look through them. Now I just have to remember to shift my weight to the inside peg, stick my leg out, touch the pavement with my finger... wait what are we talking about again? Oh right, smashed helmet pics! 
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Jul 8, 2011 18:42
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Marv Hushman posted:If a hive-mind existed here, I'd probably be on my SV-650 listening to Avenged Sevenfold on my way to hook up with somebody's hot 21 year old sister right now. None of those appear to be happening, but the day is young... I could learn to live with Avenged Sevenfold if the rest came true. Come on, hive mind! 
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Jul 8, 2011 18:55
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Z3n, did you ever find out if Blue Disc got away without serious injuries? Also, agree that the CA hive mind mocks other opinions because those opninions are wrong. The only thing CA gets wrong is the supermoto. Clearly a ridiculous concept.
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Jul 8, 2011 18:56
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MourningGlory posted:Can anyone explain the origin of the old school fear of the front brake? I've heard it a million times from old guys, but I've never understood why they think touching the lever will send them flying over the bars. If these people attended MSF for 3 minutes--pick any 3--I don't know how it would be possible to miss the braking power ratios being presented at least once. They come right out and tell you it's on BOTH WRITTEN TESTS. Is this a retention problem? I'll be the first to admit that this info was a revelation, which made it even more sticky than the rest of the facts presented. My theory is that the behavior is rooted in childhood bicycle experience. Locking the rear wheel was just the thing to do, as kids inevitably got into longest skid contests. There was nothing cool at all going on with the front brake, assuming you even had one, and everyone knew "some kid" that had flown over the bars after using it. Keep in mind I'm not talking about modern purpose-built stunt bikes, which are pretty much capable of anything. Yo Daddy's Schwinn did not do stoppies...
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Jul 8, 2011 19:12
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Marv Hushman posted:If these people attended MSF for 3 minutes--pick any 3--I don't know how it would be possible to miss the braking power ratios being presented at least once. They come right out and tell you it's on BOTH WRITTEN TESTS. Is this a retention problem? I would agree with you if I didn't see a pair of complete idiots in my MSF this past weekend. It's appalling that people can be so cavalier about riding a moto in traffic. I take this poo poo seriously, and very few others did. Then again, I've been wanting to do this for 15 years, and it's not some passing weekend 'thing to do' like some of those guys.
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Jul 8, 2011 19:48
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Marv Hushman posted:I'll be the first to admit that this info was a revelation, which made it even more sticky than the rest of the facts presented. My theory is that the behavior is rooted in childhood bicycle experience. Locking the rear wheel was just the thing to do, as kids inevitably got into longest skid contests. There was nothing cool at all going on with the front brake, assuming you even had one, and everyone knew "some kid" that had flown over the bars after using it. Keep in mind I'm not talking about modern purpose-built stunt bikes, which are pretty much capable of anything. Yo Daddy's Schwinn did not do stoppies... Ummm...you mean to tell me not all kids stuck their foot between the front wheel and the down tubes in order to pull off wicked endos on their bmx bikes? I know I sure did. Of course, I was also the kid that built a halfpipe in the backyard and used construction sites near my house as improvised BMX courses. Man, I miss being 6.
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Jul 8, 2011 20:09
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Marv Hushman posted:The few...the proud...the Jesus, how did you manage that one? It was my first race practice ever, I was going ok, life was good, my bike was sweet (although still an SV650).  Incidentally, that is the last known picture of my SV650 racebike with a windshield on it. Anyways, I was following Peter Lenz (RIP little buddy ) through the chicane at buttonwillow. We were approaching a GSX-R750, and I knew as I turned into the fast left hander that I had turned in early and would go wide on exit but figured everything would be fine, after all, people always leave a few feet of room on the exit, an early turn in just means I'll use all the track like I should. As it turns out, Peter used all the track. I watched him rip around the GSXR in front of us, turned my attention back to my line, and discovered that I was climbing the curbing on the exit of the corner at about 95mph. Right as I hit the curbing, I think "Goddamnit, I can save this", shut off the throttle, shove the inside bar, right as the bike goes off the edge of the curbing. The front end is turned sideway from my countersteering effort as I go off the curbing, it digs in deep into the soft dirt after a ~6 inch drop, and I go headfirst through the windshield. Cue an impromptu breakdancing headslide at ~90mph, followed by tumble after tumble to a stop. I did a number on my helmet, my leathers, and shattered the heel of my boot.        Ola posted:Z3n, did you ever find out if Blue Disc got away without serious injuries? I dunno, but his leg was definitely broken, he had serious cuts and probably some broken face bones from the impact with the wall, and probably a couple of broken ribs too. quote:Also, agree that the CA hive mind mocks other opinions because those opninions are wrong. The only thing CA gets wrong is the supermoto. Clearly a ridiculous concept. Ridiculously amazing. 
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Jul 8, 2011 20:15
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Marv Hushman posted:If these people attended MSF for 3 minutes--pick any 3--I don't know how it would be possible to miss the braking power ratios being presented at least once. They come right out and tell you it's on BOTH WRITTEN TESTS. Is this a retention problem? No, it's an image problem. Braking technique, suspension setup, cornering, gear, not wearing helmets, the pointless fingerless gloves, and those stupid faggy leather vests with all the patches and pins, all of it. As in, "that stuff's just fer crotchrockets, it don't apply to me." It's all image, all "I'm a biker, so god damnit, I'd better look like one." I set up a movie night with Code's "Twist of the Wrist 2" a while back for the local riding group. Granted, the acting is a bit laughable sometimes, but the techniques and theories presented in the video are great, easy to understand, and apply to everyone, no matter what type of bike you are riding. My wife and I were the only non-cruiser riders present, and afterwards, nearly every person in the room said something to the effect of "yeah, that's all good to know, but I don't go fast and I ain't on a track so it doesn't matter much to me." The last ride I organized for them, I caught poo poo for because I didn't ask everyone to keep in a formation, told them I wasn't going to block traffic at stop lights and expected them to ride safely and obey traffic laws, and dared to ride the speed limit on some of the roads I took. Apparently riding at 65mph wasn't cool with Mr I'mABiker - he'd rather we stayed at 50 or under the whole trip. Other people flat out refused to ride on the Interstate, so they didn't come either. Instead they'd rather keep on wobbling around at low speed, using just the rear brake, and having faith in their annoying loud as gently caress pipes to save them. I've given up trying to have reasonable discussion about anything other than what destinations are nice this time of year, because I don't want to ride with them any more. I'm tired of the headache from riding behind them, tired of being the only guy in gear, tired of being the only one who would know what to do if one of them wrecked, tired of the stupid 20+ bike long parade formation, and tired of being the only guy wanting to go RIDE instead of riding for an hour just to hang out in a bar all evening. A guy I know was just complaining about how he had to ride all this last week without his windshield, and how it sucked riding without a helmet and without a windshield. When I suggested he should just wear a helmet, his reply was that he has one - the soft fabric kind, with a bunch of colors on it. He's got a wife, three kids, and has attended the funeral of two riders this year who loving DIED because they weren't wearing a helmet. Last year he watched my wife walk out of an emergency room 6 hours after wrecking her bike at 40mph, yet he still won't wear a helmet. Yes, I know, it's his choice, and you're right, it is. But talk about a stupid choice to make, when 4 others are relying on him for support. I'm sorry for rambling, but jesus, this post was cathartic. I feel better now. Time for me to get on my Ninja 250, turn up Bat Country and gently caress someone's sister.
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Jul 8, 2011 20:44
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Z3n posted:Ridiculously amazing. Not a very good troll attempt, I admit. 
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Jul 8, 2011 21:06
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Raven457 posted:Trying to help people This story is pretty much why I limit my motorcycle chatting to either the internet, or friends. Same reason I don't generally go on group rides anymore. There's a point where you just get tired of trying to carry that torch. That's why I love this site so much...people will sit down and listen to what you have to say, ask questions, and generally be open to input. It's not a mindless parade of "Tell me I'm cool for starting on a 600 supersport!". Ola posted:Not a very good troll attempt, I admit. When BoJ's been in the house recently you gotta step up your game.
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Jul 8, 2011 21:30
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Z3n posted:This story is pretty much why I limit my motorcycle chatting to either the internet, or friends. Same reason I don't generally go on group rides anymore. My local sportbike group is actually pretty cool. I'd say a good 3/4 of the members do track days regularly. I should start a thread with our "group rides info" stuff because I think it's well written, good information for everyone.
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Jul 8, 2011 21:48
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Canada must be the bizarro world of motorcycles. The local biker bar is full of a lot of cool guys who just like to ride. Mind you some of them do wear the brain buckets and just a leather vest but for the most part they are actually a really good group and when I show up in my ninja they seem genuinely interested in it.I find more image conscious riders on sportbikes and get more waves from Harley's than I do Sportbikes, still get the most waves from touring bikes though.
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Jul 9, 2011 00:15
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I was talking to a friend of a friend at a gathering a while ago when the subject of aftermarket pipes came up. Cue "I never get anyone pulling out on me on -bike-with-stupid-loud-pipes, I'm a big believer in Loud-pipes-save-lives." He rode a sports bike. As for the "front brakes r dangerus" crowd I know a couple of those too. I'm not in contact with them any more but I remember being shocked when someone who I had known for a while wrote on his facebook wall about how the back brake on his GSX-R streetfighter was worn out and he'd had to *gasp* use the front brake for a day until he got it sorted out. I asked him why he thought suzuki had seen fit to furnish him with twin 300mm rotors on the front and only a tiny disc at the rear. To which he responded "front rear its all the same lol" or words to similar effect. I only talk to a few people about riding now, and when I do I keep it purely technical.
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Jul 9, 2011 00:44
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I don't really know how to feel about the loud-pipes-lives thing. I mean you drove everywhere with your horn button taped down it seems like you'd be less likely to be run over by people not paying attention. A loud exhaust seems like it'd have a similar effect.
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Jul 9, 2011 00:54
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hayden. posted:I don't really know how to feel about the loud-pipes-lives thing. I mean you drove everywhere with your horn button taped down it seems like you'd be less likely to be run over by people not paying attention. A loud exhaust seems like it'd have a similar effect. The problem with the loud pipes argument is that the people you're concerned about aren't going to notice you no matter what you're doing. You could be doing the hokey pokey naked while standing on your gas tank while blasting the soothing strains of Simon and Garfunkel and they still wouldn't notice you.
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Jul 9, 2011 00:57
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Raven457 posted:Time for me to get on my Ninja 250, turn up Bat Country and gently caress someone's sister. Z3n posted:You could be doing the hokey pokey naked while standing on your gas tank while blasting the soothing strains of Simon and Garfunkel and they still wouldn't notice you. Awright. Operation: Mindhive in full effect.
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Jul 9, 2011 01:08
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