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So there’s this place called the People’s Republic of China. You might have heard of it. You may use this thread to talk about things relating to that place. As you may also be aware, the sovereign territory of the People’s Republic of China includes many fine places, such as Taiwan. You may use this thread to talk about this, and other provinces of China. Index
 To promote scientific and harmonious argument, we insist everyone abide by The Three Nos:
Other than that, feel free to discuss anything China-related, be it current events, history or culture. I’ve included two lists below, one of recommended literature and another of sources in English and Chinese. Contributions to these are welcome. In the second post you’ll find a long article by fellow goon BrotherAdso on the workings of the Chinese government. It’s really good and I recommend you set aside an hour of your time to read it. On that note, I’ve noticed a lot of goons (including myself) currently live, study or work in China. Some of you even teach Chinese or Chinese-related subjects in university. Effortposts, regardless of topic, will be greatly appreciated by everyone. Those who take the time to write longer contributions will be rewarded with a place in the appendix of the OP, which I’ve reserved for “model posts”. And of course, if you read Chinese, consider translating interesting articles or blog posts when you come across them. This is a ton of effort, but know that not only are you getting some excellent language practice, you are also contributing in a more abstract sense through making Chinese voices heard. I’ll try to make room for translations in the OP as well. So without further ado, let’s get on with it! Autonomous Regions Ask/Tell Thread about Chinese History http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3447396&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 The China Megathread (Tourism & Travel) http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3413886 Teaching English in Taiwan (Tourism & Travel) http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3330057&pagenumber=32&perpage=40#post395784789 Chinese Language Thread (Science, Academics and Languages) http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2683932&pagenumber=30&perpage=40#post374032197  Most of the reporting done in and on China should be taken with a few grains of salt. Sifting out what’s good from what’s bad, what’s reliable from what’s not et.c. takes time. A good place to start is the China Digital Times, which is a US-funded (and therefore free) news aggregator that picks up most, if not all of the important China stories that run in the English-language media. Or you could check out an independent website like Danwei, which has staff that reads Chinese, and the experience to put events in perspective. The WSJ China Real Time Report is a decent English-language source. Twitter and its Chinese equivalent, Sina Weibo, are also excellent ways of discovering content. Sources in English News
Magazines
Blogs
Podcasts
Sources in Chinese News
Magazines
Podcasts/Youtube
Sources in Other Languages
 Twitter and its Chinese equivalent Weibo are great sources, but can often seem overwhelming if you don’t know who to follow. That’s especially the case with Weibo, what with the added language barrier and all. Below is a list of people you can follow to begin with if you’re interested in China. (some of these were snagged from fellow SA poster SB35) On Twitter
 Interesting links that don’t fit in anywhere else are posted here.
 An astonishing number of books have been produced on China. I won’t lay claim to having read more than a paltry number of them. In English, you can find books about virtually any topic from Tang underwear to Mao’s dental hygiene. And of course, even that will pale in comparison to all the material you can access if you read Chinese. For other languages, the selection is smaller but still significant. The list is compiled from my own bookshelf and suggestions from others, and is updated as new suggestions come in. If you need a starting point, and are interested in Chinese history, I heartily recommend Patricia Ebrey’s book, Cambridge Illustrated History of China. The reason for this is that it is light on specifics and very easy to read. It is commonly used as an introductory textbook in Chinese history courses. Fairbank’s volume is good and widely available, but much denser, to the point where it may very well be unreadable without some foreknowledge. Gernet’s book has similar issues. I have heard good things about Spence’s Search for Modern China, so I am including that as well. For history books, you can also check out this expanded reading list by Professor William Rowe from John Hopkins University. (tabris) The University of Warwick has reading lists for its seminars on Chinese history. Professor Shawn Breslin, also at Warwick, has had the decency to make some of his research papers freely available. (Hong Xiuquan) History - General Overviews
Imperial History (221 BC - 1912 AD)
Modern History (1912 - Present)
Politics
Religion and Belief Systems
Biographies
Business
Education
Women and Gender
Multi-volume works
Books in Chinese
Books in other languages
Comedy
french lies fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Feb 14, 2012 17:12
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(Cefte)
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The following is an excellent write-up about the Chinese government, courtesy of LF superstar BrotherAdso. It should be considered a must-read by everyone. I’ve taken the liberty of correcting a few minor mistakes, mostly typos. Some of the original pics seem to have been lost, so you’ll see some phantom captions pop up here and there.BrotherAdso posted:How Does China Work Anyway? french lies fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Feb 16, 2012 |
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Feb 14, 2012 17:12
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 Part of my intention while making this thread was to draw out more of the expertise on SA that you’ll sometimes catch glimpses of here and there: In case you haven’t noticed, goons know poo poo. So far I’ve been amazed at the depth and breadth of knowledge you guys possess about China, and I hope the trend of longer and more in-depth posts continues throughout the thread. Now, I know it takes time and effort to write those, so to make sure they’re appreciated (and to keep the same questions from popping up over and over again), I’ve created this section for model posts. Those who write a lot of these will be rewarded with “model worker” status”. Model posts as of 13.08.2012
french lies fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Jan 2, 2013 |
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Feb 14, 2012 17:13
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Typo posted:I'm literally going to Shanghai tomorrow, anyone know of any good way to bypass the famed great firewall? I'm planning on using my own proxy server but backups would be appreciated. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3413886 Edit: Literally two posts later and we have our first violation of The Three Nos! This doesn't bode well...
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Feb 14, 2012 18:27
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Cefte posted:Does't noes take an e?  quote:What's your read on the Wang Li-Jun embassy business? Any way you look at it, Bo is probably hosed as far as his political future is concerned. One interesting aside is how the FLG has reacted to this. Wang Lijun and Bo Xilai were two of the main guys involved in the 1999 crackdown on the FLG, so the Epoch Times and NTDTV are going crazy right now. Two days ago, one of their commentators even speculated that Wang Lijun was directly involved in organ harvesting operations, and that he had leaked details of an ongoing harvesting scheme lead by him and Bo Xilai to the US Government. Needless to say, anything the FLG says can be safely disregarded. quote:How's real-name registration going to work for foreigners and their Sina weaboos? french lies fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Feb 14, 2012 |
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Feb 14, 2012 22:57
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BrotherAdso posted:Thanks. French Lies did a fabulous job formatting and bringing in the great book list -- I did that post on the govt long ago now. Also. the Confucianism effortpost definitely deserves a place in the thread, and the OP for that matter. Send it to me via PM and I'll put it in the third post.
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Feb 15, 2012 22:44
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Adar posted:I'm not an expert about China proper, but as the resident professional gambler, here are some words about Macau: quote:It'd be great to have a list of (non-sensitive, I guess) Twitter/Sina Weibo accounts to follow. Eg Kim Jensen of Kinablog mentioned above is available on Twitter @kinablog. @NiuB is a good source of interesting blogs and news. @KaiserKuo works in Beijing for BaiDu and has some great links/commentary on Chinese tech developments.
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Feb 16, 2012 09:47
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Fiendish_Ghoul posted:By the way, I just wanted to point out for anyone who didn't know, since the OP didn't, that the tub of guts at the top of the post is Mao's grandson. Looks like someone needs to take a couple of Long Marches, har har. Edit: Here, have some Mao Xinyu for Page Three:     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHyNy7OHeNQ Ladies and gentlemen, a Ph.D. and Major General. A Youtube Commenter posted:He ate all the Food during the Great Leap Forward, no wonder 30 million Chinese died from starvation... 
french lies fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Feb 17, 2012 |
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Feb 17, 2012 09:47
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Arglebargle III posted:Oh hey forums poster shots shots shots, glad to see you responded to my question, although it looks like you forgot part of it. I'm gonna guess you were talking about Xi Jinping. Maybe you could have googled him instead of sounding so ignorant? quote:Li Keqiang, vice-premier of the State Council, pointed out that the strategy of expanding internal consumption must continue to be implemented, with an emphasis on increasing citizen [consumer] spending. This must be done through measures such as encouraging employment, entrepreneurship and strengthening public services, and a fair adjustment of income distribution, in order to increase the disposable income and buying power of the citizenry. This was made in response to reports earlier last year that consumer spending was down in 2010 from 2009. I also think you're being uncharitable by interpreting the previous comment in a literal sense. To me, it doesn't seem like he's talking about Potemkin villages, but rather that the modern consumer economy in China is largely isolated to first-tier cities and the kind of places that westerners are likely to visit. So a lot of times, you'll have people like Thomas Friedman going to Shanghai, seeing iPhones, and writing enthusiastic op-eds on the importance of Chinese consumers, all while ignoring the fact that the economy is still largely an agrarian and developing economy.
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Feb 18, 2012 15:41
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Throatwarbler posted:Unfortunately right now they seem to have having hosting issues (or the MSS are on to them Edit: And I'm really glad I did. Very informative podcast, I'll put it in the OP. Some highlights:
quote:Glad to see this thread in D&D. I majored in Chinese in undergrad, and am currently teaching English in a rural area. If anyone is interested about Chinese pre-college education, rural life, or the true penetration of standard Mandarin, I'd be happy to contribute. Also, Classical Chinese Poetry. french lies fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Feb 20, 2012 |
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Feb 20, 2012 08:44
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) and the podcast is inaccesible [...]
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I was just about to say, the general debate on sweatshops deserves a thread of its own. That, or take it to the Parecon thread instead (since that seems to be touching on modes of production and socialism).
french lies fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Feb 21, 2012 |
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Feb 21, 2012 03:54
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Seriously, don't continue this derail. Either take it to another thread or stop. I've started listening to back episodes of Sinica, which I really recommend if you're into China news. In the one I'm listening to now, they went over the Taiwan elections, and the suzhi argument for why democracy won't work in China. If you don't know what this is, it's a common belief among urban Chinese who essentially argue that rural Chinese would screw things up if elections ever were held. This is because the sum of their moral, spiritual and intellectual quality, otherwise known as suzhi, is too low to make informed decisions. If you live in China, I'm sure you've heard some version of this argument before. And personally, I've remained skeptical that the success of Taiwan can scale to match the needs of the PRC. But hearing the example of Indonesia mentioned in the podcast, I'm starting to reassess my opinions. Do you guys have any input on this? Do you think democracy is feasible in China, considering the scope and size of the country?
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Feb 21, 2012 06:06
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Throatwarbler posted:french lies says he doesn't want a generalized discussion on the nature of capitalism and then goes off and immediately start us off on a generalized discussion on the nature of democracy. Solis posted:Kind of unrelated to the thread topic at hand but I'm quite interested in modern Chinese history, especially in geopolitical terms... Thus far I've only managed to take a brief course and go through a few books, but I'd like to know more. One example is the battle of Luding Bridge. IIRC Chang claims that no fighting actually took place here, citing an unnamed old woman. However, journalists were later unable to find this witness, though they did find someone else who gave an account saying fighting did take place. So who's right? I think there's a natural distrust in the West of China and the CCP in particular, and it's gotten to where you can claim almost anything and not get challenged on it. I mean, look at how much traction the FLG has gotten with its claims of large-scale organ harvesting, despite the fact that outside journalists have found nothing to corroborate it. From what I can see, both Li Zhisui and Jung Chang have profited immensely from their lurid and controversial allegations about Mao, which doesn't automatically discredit them but does raise some serious questions about their motives. I'm open for a longer discussion on this, and I'd welcome input from someone who's read the academic rebuttal of Chang's book.
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Feb 22, 2012 20:32
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Just got done adding a heap of literature recommendations to the OP. These are from Brennanite. For those who complained that there was too little on women's history, your pleas have been heard: Brennanite posted:
And some really interesting books on religion which I'll probably never have time to read. Brennanite posted:
By way of the Sinica podcast, I also picked up a recommendation for this amazing blog post by Patrick Chovanec. It's a primer on the China leadership transition, written in very concise and understandable prose. Maybe a good companion piece for the BrotherAdso post in the OP? Either way, you should read it pronto if you're interested in the coming transition in the fall.
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Feb 23, 2012 00:06
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Just a quick heads-up about romanization: I see some of you hyphenating and/or double capitalizing connected syllables, like Li Zhi-Sui or Wang LiJun. These are both holdovers from the now-antiquated Wade-Giles system, and do not feature in the current Hanyu Pinyin system of transcription. In Hanyu Pinyin (which is the correct system to use since both of them are mainlanders), these names would be written Li Zhisui and Wang Lijun. Where it gets confusing is with Taiwanese names and especially those of overseas Chinese. For example, the name of the current president of Taiwan is generally transcribed as Ma Ying-jeou (no double capitalization), not Ma Yingjiu. Taiwan uses a mish-mash of different transcription systems, like Tongyong Pinyin, which I have never been able to wrap my head around. And who knows how Cai became romanized as Chua, as it is in the case of Cai Mei'er aka Amy Chua. For simplicity's sake, I'd recommend that we stick to whatever Wikipedia gives main billing, and try to avoid double capitalization, hyphenation for mainlanders and antiquated spellings where they've fallen out of fashion (Mao Tse-tung vs. Mao Zedong).
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Feb 23, 2012 12:31
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Cefte posted:Because the family were probably south-east Asian Hokkien speakers. Fie on your prescriptivism, Professor 孔法谎! Since we're on the topic of romanization, is anyone here in support of pinyin as the official writing system in China? I remember having a debate about this (which I lost badly, btw) with an LFer who supported abolishing characters. His case rested mostly on the fact that characters suppress the literacy of the poor, whereas I tried to argue that pinyin is impractical, drawing out old chestnuts like the Lion-eating poet in the Stone Den et.c. Now, I've since revised my position on this, and if I'm not supportive of them, I have become more sympathetic to the arguments of those who want to abolish characters. But I'm really more interested in what you guys think. Does the cultural significance of characters, and their place in Chinese history, excuse a possible suppressing effect on literacy? Are arguments by Westerners to abolish characters cultural imperialism, even if they are motivated by a genuine concern for the rural poor of China?
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Feb 23, 2012 15:22
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Barto posted:Probably not as much as you'd think- the characters are pretty important. If you get rid of them, humor, literature, colloquialisms, etc. will all have to be destroyed and reinvented: it basically amounts to linguistic genocide. It would change the language in huge ways totally apart from cultural issues.
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Feb 23, 2012 16:10
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Barto posted:I've lived in Taiwan/China for about six years now, and I wrote my master's thesis, all 100,000 words of it, in Chinese. That poo poo ain't happening in pinyin. Of course, the argument is moot anyway because it'll never, ever happen. And for me personally, characters are why I started learning Chinese so obviously I'd be sad to see them go. But I still think it's a really interesting discussion to have on a theoretical level, and that it shouldn't be dismissed off-hand like this.
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Feb 23, 2012 16:47
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Barto posted:And why is it always western people who suggest this? I mean...I know characters used to be a big deal for me way back when I started studying, but now they're just as natural as anything and I don't even notice them- I just use them. I think foreigners blow it out of proportion because of their own learning difficulties. I really don't see what you're getting at, other than a desire to string together loosely connected anecdotes, and brag about your Chinese. You say that scientific texts would be impossible to write, but don't cite any specific examples of where possible misunderstandings could arise (purely anecdotal, but scientific texts in Chinese seem increasingly to use the Western system for elements and molecular structures, like Co2 instead of erhua tan). You post a chat log in Chinese, then don't even bother to critically dissect what your friend says. I doubt the lack of vertical writing would be a huge loss to Chinese culture, for example. And who's to say chunlian need to be written in pinyin? He then brings up huanjing as an example, but if those were three different syllables you would use an apostrophe to demarcate them, like this: hu'an jing. Supposing China ever went over to a fully pinyinized writing system, people would likely adapt by using apostrophes more actively. french lies fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Feb 23, 2012 18:36
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Barto posted:I guess it sounds like bragging, but if your Chinese is good enough you will understand why you can't get rid of them. Just today I went to the trouble of getting opinions about it from two researchers in Chinese Second Language Studies for you and they agree too. Maybe you can go read more academic papers about it? Anyway, I don't think you got my point. Maybe you can reread it (or not), I can only offer my own opinion and those of the experts I know. So I will leave it at that. I feel my point has already been made substantially. It's pure argument from authority, basically waving away a discussion on hypotheticals by saying that you know some Taiwanese people and read a lot of Chinese. I personally don't have any problems with characters, they're my livelihood after all. But I don't think that makes them essential, or impossible to replace. That's what we're arguing about, after all.
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Feb 23, 2012 18:53
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Arglebargle III posted:You're asking him to prove that something doesn't exist or won't work, which is kind of hard regardless of his position. Do you have an example of a large scale implementation of pinyin that intentionally displaced characters and worked? The Chinese have done a lot of thinking about this themselves and I don't know of any real efforts to promote a phonetic system as a replacement for characters, even though there's been a lot of discussion from people who could potentially enact such a change. As you touched on, Mao was very clearly in support of alphabetization, as were a significant number of Chinese intellectuals, including Lu Xun. DeFrancis has a great article about this which shows some of the efforts that have been made towards this end. Among some of the interesting things he mentions is a program of experimental elementary school classes where the children were being taught to read and write exclusively in Pinyin for the first two years, only to significantly outperform students being taught with traditional methods. John DeFrancis posted:Rohsenow further expands on the details of the Z.T. experiment, both in Heilongjiang and after its spread to every province and autonomous region in the PRC. Of special interest are his notes on further examples of the astounding success of the program, of which I mention only three: (1) In a 1988 writing competition, of the 4,091 students who took part, three Z.T. students received first prizes and four received second prizes. None of the non-Z.T. students won prizes. (2) Of the same 4,091 students, 6.61 percent of Z.T. students recommended for admission to “key middle schools” were accepted, whereas only 2.15 percent of the non-Z.T. students were accepted. (3) In a countrywide graduation competition based on the sixth-grade curriculum, a Z.T. fifth-year class had a pass rate of 100 percent compared to a sixth grade pass rate of 88.89 percent. If that is true, I do think it is significant enough to merit serious consideration. I should probably clear things up by saying that I do not support a switch to pinyin, nor have I ever done so, and that I'm purely arguing for the sake of discussion here. That being said, the arguments against have been pretty bad so far. Barto's argument seemed to boil down to "it will be impossible because X will happen", then when I asked him to cite specific examples of X he posted some chat logs from a random Taiwanese person and invoking argument from authority, saying that "if your Chinese is good enough, you will agree with me". Well, not to brag but my Chinese is likely better than his and I don't agree. Claims that pinyin would be unworkable because of homophones and possibilities of misunderstandings are baseless IMO, other than in the remotest of situations. BrotherAdso and Cream_Filling had a better approach, accepting the fact that people will work around and find solutions to the problems that arise, but stressing how disconnected people will become to their heritage. This is probably one of the more incisive argument against a full switch, and probably part of the reason why revolutionaries like Mao were in support of it in the first place: They were advocating a break with traditional Chinese culture and abolishing characters would hasten the process. But let's suppose I was a hardcore MTWer, couldn't I just say that a poor peasant cares squat about reading the original versions of the Analects or the Dream of Red Mansions, and more about the educational prospects of his children? Wouldn't a ton of literature be produced in Pinyin explaining the contents and significance of these texts? I mean, I can't read Norse but I can read Snorre and the Eddas in translation, which works fine for me. What you're left with is the linguistic unity argument, but wouldn't Pinyin based on Putonghua as the official writing system actually further promote the spread of Putonghua and therefore linguistic unity? I dunno, I think it's an interesting discussion to have. And funnily enough, the better my Chinese has gotten the less I'm convinced that it is somehow impossible or impractical to do.
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Feb 24, 2012 09:09
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Arakan posted:Maybe I'm missing a large and obvious point, but how would switching to a pinyin based system increase literacy? The same kids still would and would not be attending school. Is it just because you think a pinyin system would be easier to teach yourself or learn from a sibling who went to school or whatever? I'm really not sure what kind of effort is required to learn characters when we're talking about primary school children. For me, as an adult learner, it took about three years to get to the point where I had full comprehension of simplified and traditional characters and could write most of them by hand. This was as a full-time student, including a pretty intense year of study at NTU in Taipei. The account I've gotten from Chinese friends is that they would learn a set number of characters per week in their first years of primary school. Now, compare this to learning the alphabet, which took, I don't know, maybe a month or something in total when I went to primary school? If you are talking about rural areas where funding for education is scant, and children are routinely taken out of school to work, I guess you could make the argument that the teaching of characters is a huge waste of the students' time. I don't know how relevant this is, but I know two heritage learners that taught themselves characters when they were children by watching Chinese TV and singing karaoke with their parents. They don't know how to write them by hand, obviously, but using a pinyin input system they get along just fine. So for all I know, pro-Pinyin advocates might be greatly exaggerating the difficulties of reaching a level of passive reading comprehension in Chinese.
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Feb 24, 2012 10:56
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Hong XiuQuan posted:I can't for the life of me find the story (no Chinese input on this work PC) but if anyone's got a source for that story would love to have it to hand. quote:After Zhang Fei became aware that Guan Yu had met with misfortune, he hastened back to Xichuan, to urge Liu Bei to send out soldiers to exact revenge. He also ordered Fan Jiang and Zhang Da to make him a white coat and a suit of white armor, but Fan and Zhang did not make them well enough. This made Zhang furious as a thunderstorm, and he gave them hundred lashes each with the whip. french lies fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Feb 24, 2012 |
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Feb 24, 2012 15:51
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If you are posting stuff in Chinese, make sure to include translations of everything, and post summaries if you're including links to Chinese websites. I'd prefer it if we stick to English exclusively. Otherwise the discussion just becomes too cliquish. Edit: Taiwan is fine.
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Feb 24, 2012 19:12
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Remember that panic run on salt because of Fukushima? Yep, that was started by someone selling salt. The chaos that resulted was beneficial to no one. Loosening the restrictions on the media would get rid of much, if not all of the rumor-mongering.
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Mar 4, 2012 09:03
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:It really wouldn't get rid of it all. The only difference in the end is who is censoring what and for what purpose. It's something that needs to be eased into and regulated properly. This is one nice step towards that goal... holding people responsible for the crap they spew online and when it's something legit, hopefully they will back up their claims with things like evidence. Rumor-spreading, distrust of official announcements, reliance on hearsay, have all come about more or less directly because of the government's (especially local government's) insistence on censoring everything that is damaging to their interests. The consequences of this information suppression can be deadly to the common man, as they were in the case of the 2008 tainted milk scandal, or the 2003 SARS outbreak. This again gives ordinary citizens a powerful incentive to ignore official announcements (which, as you touched on, are often quite reasonable), and in turn give credence to extreme rumors. As is typical, the party here is itself the cause of the problems that it says makes changes impossible. Ironically, removing or loosening the party-state's control over the media would actually go a long way to remedy these problems. Re-instating the rule of law and proper legal proceedings would go a long way in fostering a culture where people are less likely to believe any absurd claim as fact. The problem is that since all of these things are detrimental to CCP rule, they are not likely to ever come about.
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Mar 4, 2012 17:01
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Sorry for the double-post, but I just wanted to make another plug for the Sinica podcast that was recommended a few pages back. I've been listening to it during work-outs over the past few weeks and it's such a fantastic resource for understanding current affairs in China. I'm not exaggerating when I say it's probably the best China-related thing I've discovered in years.
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Mar 4, 2012 17:14
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Pro-PRC Laowai is what happens when you integrate too well and end up with the political opinions of a shaokao vendor or a middle-aged cab driver.
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Mar 17, 2012 07:53
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Xandu posted:Pretty good article about the recent events in Chongqing. The writer also mentions Wen Jiabao's comments about Bo Xilai's populism and the parallels to the Cultural Revolution. For anyone in the PRC, how hard is the official Chinese media pushing this angle? I've had more than a few mainland friends paraphrase Wen's comments to me when I asked about Bo being sacked, so I would assume they're a significant part of the official narrative right now.
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Mar 20, 2012 17:37
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More Bo Xilai news! Apparently, some people now think the ouster was part of a political coup.Foreign Policy posted:Mainland media sites have begun to strongly censor discussion of Bo Xilai and entirely unsubstantiated rumors of gunfire in downtown Beijing (an extremely rare occurance in Beijing). Chinese websites hosted overseas, free from censorship, offer a host of unsupported, un-provable commentary on what might have happened in the halls of power. Bannedbook.org, which provides free downloads of "illegal" Chinese books, posted a long explanation of tremors in the palace of Zhongnanhai, sourced to a "person with access to high level information in Beijing," of a power struggle between President Hu Jintao, who controls the military, and Zhou, who controls China's formidable domestic security apparatus. The Epoch Times, a news site affiliated with the Falun Gong spiritual movement (which banned in China), has published extensively in English and Chinese about the coup. Kong Qingdong said a thing. Apparently he is now barred from teaching at Beida, and his program has been suspended. Radio France International posted:(my translation) Xinhua reports that after Bo Xilai was forced to resign, Peking University professor Kong Qingdong stated that this was a “Counter-Revolutionary Coup” during the March 15 showing of his program “Kong Qingdong Has Something to Say” on V1. Kong also said this move “hurt the feelings of hundreds of millions of Chinese”, and claimed that China “is bound to sink into the kind of Cultural Revolution chaos that Wen Jiabao talked about. Everyone will suffer, it would probably be a huge disaster.” Hu Xijin, the editor of hardline nationalist rag Global Times, issued a response to Mitt Romney's recent comments about China. He is uncharacteristically civil, and pretty much just states the obvious. Hu Xijin posted:As for the U.S.-China row over things like rare earths, the exchange rate, and even human rights, all these conflicts have been very specific, and they haven't capsized the whole relationship. We believe the person whom the Americans elect to enter the White House will, at the very least, have rational thoughts. Romney won't make the mistake of turning a specific conflict into a showdown with 1.3 billion Chinese people.
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Mar 22, 2012 20:09
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Falun Gong is just putting its US funding to good use and smearing the CCP any chance it gets (with good reason, I might add). The fact that their propaganda outlets NTDTV and Epoch Times are pushing the coup angle is a surefire sign that it's bullshit. You just know that somewhere along the way, they'll cite some "unnamed sources" and claim that the Politburo was really fighting over who gets the biggest cut of its countrywide FLG organ harvesting operations. They're good for entertainment, I'll give them that.
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Mar 22, 2012 22:50
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More rumors! No coup, but the likelihood of very strong tensions within the party is high. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the coming weeks.LA Times posted:
Wow, the Chinese government does not want people talking about Bo Xilai. Netizens are now resorting to noodle brands and children's shows characters as code words to discuss the Bo Xilai ouster. The Guardian posted:With facts in short supply since leadership contender Bo Xilai was dismissed as party chief of Chongqing last week, the online rumour mill has been in overdrive – fuelled by the opaque nature of Chinese politics and the knowledge that a power transition is fast approaching. On the topic of Hong Kong, they are holding an election! Yay! Oh wait, it's just a bunch of rich assholes picking from a pre-screened selection of candidates. Apparently, this leads to trouble when one of them pretends to give a poo poo about the poor. HK's elite are now in open conflict with Zhongnanhai. Wall Street Journal posted:The race for Hong Kong's top political post that will reach the finish line Sunday is the liveliest the city has ever seen, and one last surprise could be in store: no winner.
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Mar 23, 2012 08:39
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New Sinica!  Sinica posted:If you smell anything burning, it's likely your Internet cable melting from the heat of all these rumors. Which is why at Sinica we turn our unforgiving gaze this week at unsubstantiated press foreign and domestic, focusing first on reports of heightened police security in Beijing, midnight tank appearances, gunshots near the square, luxury car crashes, and even whispers of a coup d'etat. And more internationally, we can't help but discuss This American Life's recent retraction of a China-related story that was heavily fabricated: L'affaire Daisey. China is ending the practice of harvesting organ from death-row prisoners. Sounds good, but it may cause problems with the supply. Voluntary donations are extremely rare in China, as Chinese tradition requires the body to be kept intact after death. Wall Street Journal posted:China officials plan to phase out organ harvesting of death-row inmates, a move to overhaul a transplant system that has for years relied on prisoners and organ traffickers to serve those in need of transplants. Life continues to suck for Tibetans in post-Harmonious Society China. If only their outlook was more ... scientific! Tom Lasseter posted:Although he was speaking in a teahouse with no obvious security presence, the monk on Wednesday said that he had to be careful. Lawyers now have to swear fealty to the CCP. How's that legal system working out for you, Pro-PRC Laowai? Voice of America posted:China's Justice Ministry has for the first time ordered lawyers to take a loyalty oath to the Communist Party, in a move that is raising the ire of human rights lawyers who defend critics of the authoritarian Beijing government. Some more links:
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Mar 24, 2012 10:28
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Yessss give me more of those rumors. The bizarre the better. People are now saying that Bo Guagua, Bo Xilai's son, is missing and that his (apparently male) nanny was murdered by his mother in Chongqing. See what happens when you don't give people information? They make poo poo up.Wenxue City posted:(my translation) Caijing reporter Yang Haipeng revealed on her Weibo today that the "English nanny" of Bo Guagua, Bo Xilai's son, died in Chongqing. The person in charge of the investigation at the time was Wang Lijun (written as "Wang Lijuan" here - Weibo innuendo). The cause of death was not revealed, and the body was cremated immediately afterwards. More trouble in the South China Sea (as good as a time as any to post Sinica's discussion on the topic). Just wait till they get those aircraft carriers. AFP posted:HANOI — China said Thursday the detention of two Vietnamese fishing boats and 21 crew near the disputed Paracel Islands was lawful, after Hanoi demanded their "immediate and unconditional" release. Today is D-day for HK's "democratic" (plutocratic?) elections. Looks like ordinary people aren't all that excited to see which one of the two Beijing-approved rich guys that get voted in by the establishment. Can't say I'm waiting with bated breath either. Bloomberg posted:Stephen Chung gave up on buying an apartment in Hong Kong after realizing it would take him 10 years to save the $115,000 deposit for a two-bedroom box in the northern part of the former British colony. He isn’t expecting any help from the city’s next leader.  UPDATE Leung Chun-ying has won the election with 689 of 1193 votes. french lies fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Mar 25, 2012 |
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Mar 25, 2012 08:12
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Remember those rumors I posted about? Turns out they had some punch to them. They got the name wrong (it's Neil Heywood, not Neil Wood), but someone did die in Chongqing, he was connected to the Bo family and he was English. My guess is we'll still be hearing about this case months from now.The Wall Street Journal posted:U.K. Seeks Probe Into China Death Old news by now, but if you didn't catch it last week: China's law enforcement agencies can now legally "detain" (essentially kidnap) people for six months without informing their relatives or closest kin, so long as "national security" calls for it. Want China Times posted:China legalizes secret arrests, 6-month detention without charge In other news, state-run media outlets are now calling the Dalai Lama a nazi. The New York Times posted:China Attacks Dalai Lama in Online Burst The editorial is here, for those who want to read it. It's built up as a series of questions to the Dalai Lama, including such gems as "Why did you build up a “Berlin Wall” of national antagonism?". Oh state propaganda, what won't you do? 
french lies fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Mar 26, 2012 |
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Mar 26, 2012 10:07
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All this forced demolition chat made me think of the Fuzhou bomber last year. From Wikipedia: quote:In 1995 Qian Mingqi's home was demolished by government authorities to make way for a highway. He then saved up enough money to build a second home, which was also shattered by a second forced demolition. His second house cost about 500,000 yuan, and the authorities paid him only half of that for compensation. Because of the lack of compensation, he posted slogans to resist the demolition. According to his neighbors, Qian's wife was then hung upside down by the demolition team. She died a few years later from gall bladder disease. From the police report of the Fuzhou Police, Qian's wife has been dead for several years. french lies fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Mar 26, 2012 19:29
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Details are emerging on Neil Heywood. He was connected to the Bo family mainly through his wife, and had done various jobs for them, with some suggesting that he played a role as a low-level fixer. Others are saying that he was entrusted with taking care of Guagua at various points, corroborating the rumors that he was a "nanny". Maybe butler is a more apt description? Wall Street Journal posted:Briton in China Advised Intelligence Firm More bear chat, and it ain't the sexy kind. Many analysts are predicting a hard landing may be imminent, some even say it's already begun. China Digital Times posted:CDT Money: More Signs of a Slowdown I won't pretend to understand even half of what's in there, but what I do know is that most of the bearish predictions so far have tended to be premature and overblown (ref. The Coming Collapse of China, where Gordon Chang predicted that China would collapse in 2006). I'd be happy if someone with more economic know-how than me took a look through the links in the CDT article and gave some input on this. At this point it's probably unnecessary for me to mention that a slowdown, if it really happens, will result in a worst-case scenario of civil unrest and a lot of bloody crackdowns. This is probably why Wen Jiabao is out there right now giving lip-service to popular issues like corruption fighting and political reform: The government is trying to be pro-active in staving off any coming waves of discontent. french lies fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Mar 27, 2012 |
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Mar 27, 2012 07:18
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Deceitful Penguin posted:So what can the Brits do, other than ask? Is it likely for anything to come out of this at all or will it get swept under the carpet? As far as the investigation is concerned, we'll get whatever details the party deems convenient for us to know. In this instance, the central leadership likely has an interest in killing domestic and international sympathy/support for Bo Xilai, so don't be surprised if we get some major dirt on him and his family a few months out from now. This kills two birds with one stone: The party appears tough on corruption by showing that no one is above the law, and it changes the story of the Bo ouster from one of party in-fighting to a purging of criminal elements within the leadership.
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Mar 28, 2012 07:07
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China Digital Times sums up the fallout from "Mr. Daisey and the Apple Factory", including Chinese/American reactions to the piece and its subsequent retraction. Lots of soul-searching, introspection and even some sweet burns from the Global Times:Global Times posted:NPR scandal shows US addicted to savior myth Leslie T. Chang (the author of Factory Girls) agrees and finds Daisey's underlying perception of Chinese workers to be insulting. IIRC this is also a big part of her book: She found that the Chinese workers she followed didn't really discuss their working conditions or their relative poverty to the people who bought the products they made. They were mostly interested in things like love, marriage and their own personal aspirations. The hard work they did in the factory was a way for them to actively realize their ambitions, not something they were forced into by capital and the circumstances of their life. You might of course discuss whether this was really the case, but that is how they perceived their own lives. I also found interesting the parallels to 8964 and how that incident was misrepresented in the Western media. Jeffrey Wasserstrom has a pro-click piece about this that you all should read. But what strikes me most while reading through the links in the article is the willingness of some people (Steve Wozniak, for example) to excuse Daisey lying because it was in the service of the greater good, meaning awareness-raising in this case. Setting aside the issue of him lying to his audience, what good is awareness when it's predicated on a set of false beliefs? Is there any point in me boycotting the iPad because I think it's made by Hexane-poisoned 13-year-old girls with lobster hands, when that is really not the case at all?
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Mar 28, 2012 11:46
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If you haven't heard yet, commenting is now blocked on Sina and Tencent's Weibo services. From The Jakarta Globe: quote:Beijing. China’s two most popular microblogs, Sina Weibo and Tencent QQ, on Saturday blocked web users from posting comments on the sites, saying they were acting to stop the spread of rumors. Nothing big is going to come out of this, but my guess it will add to the trickle of discontent that is slowly shaping into a big problem for the CCP.
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Mar 31, 2012 09:52
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