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A Winner is Jew
Feb 14, 2008

Shabbat shalom motherfucker!

Lemonus posted:

The trail to freedom started with Proposition 8: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_v_brown

We are going to the Supreme Court and bringing the 14th Amendment with us.

Medium term prediction: Supreme Court Case upholds same-sex marriage as a right to equal protection of the laws in all 50 states in a 6-3 decision.

SCOUTS won't grant the right for gays to marry until all but 12-18 states have already granted that right of same sex marriage either through their own courts, SCOUTS changing civil unions in marriage (due to Brown v. Board) or through ballot initiatives.

Reason being is because there were only 17 states with forced segregation when Brown v. Board was ruled and Lawrence v. Texas only changed the laws in 13 states and SCOUTS doesn't like to overturn a majority of states laws, but instead only drags the few holdouts up to the rest of the countries standards.

Best case really is for Prop 8's overturning to apply only to the 9'th circuit, but more then likely it will rule that people can't vote to take away someone's right the courts already granted them (which was basically the 9'th circuit ruling) and it's overturned only in California.

A Winner is Jew fucked around with this message at May 12, 2012 around 08:26

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Riptor
Apr 13, 2003

here's to feelin' good all the time


UltimoDragonQuest posted:

Nobody has managed to re-ban marriage.

Maine did

Mr Ice Cream Glove
Apr 22, 2007
"If you put a hamburger in the toaster it'll say Happy Birthday."

Wow Rand Paul

quote:

At the Iowa Faith & Freedom event, Paul mocked President Obama’s remark that his view on marriage was evolving. “Call me cynical, but I didn’t think his views on marriage could get any gayer,” he said.

Tatum Girlparts
Sep 8, 2011

More like Tantrum Girlparts!
I can't be smug if I never stop whining.



Rand then snorted, spat on the floor, and told the reporter to stop hitting himself.

Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


"Barack Obama is gay as hell" - a sitting US Senator

MODS CURE JOKES
Nov 11, 2009

OFFICIAL SAS 90s REMEMBERER


Pornographic Memory posted:

"Barack Obama is gay as hell" - a sitting US Senator

It's happened. We have reached the truest distillation of the GOP.

lol ur gay *votes to defund abortion clinics* loving sluts..

Barry Convex
Sep 1, 2005

Think of the good things, Pim! The good things!

Like Jesus, candy, and crackerjacks! Ice cream and cake and lots o'laffs!
Grandma, Grandpa, and Uncle Joe! Larry, Curly, and brother Moe!


Riptor posted:

Maine did

Maine's marriage law never went into effect, though. Similarly, neither Washington's nor Maryland's marriage laws would go into effect until after the referenda this November.

Riptor
Apr 13, 2003

here's to feelin' good all the time


Barry Convex posted:

Maine's marriage law never went into effect, though.

Wow, I didn't realize that. Thanks!

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003
crazy people don't like me

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

Wow Rand Paul

The man who votes for freedom*!

*Freedom only applies to the following groups...

Twatworth
Apr 5, 2012


How the hell can you guy's have your President come out for this while our defacto, atheist, female and foreign born Prime Minister has an issue with it?

What the hell is happening?

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Twatworth posted:

How the hell can you guy's have your President come out for this while our defacto, atheist, female and foreign born Prime Minister has an issue with it?

What the hell is happening?
American Exceptionalism.

messagemode1
Jun 9, 2006



B B posted:

Text of the memo is here:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns...age-123235.html

Oh god some of the comments on that thing.

quote:

With all do respect, do gays work? Do the gays pay bills? Do the gays buy gas? Now I know the gays are the newest, well not new, but one of the mostly highly protected elite classes in the the US today, but they still crap like the rest of us and have similar worries I take it. So instead of voting with your heart, how bout your head, or better yet, you're wallet. How's that been working out for you these days?

But hey, did you hear Romney allegedly bullied a gay kid almost FIFTY YEARS AGO! Boy, President Crack Head wasn't even, well doing the crack often, his words, not mine. President Crack Head can't even remember his last two years of high school. College transcripts? What, are you a racist?!?!?!?! RACIST!

So lets just focus on the really important things, like what Romney did FIFTY YEARS AGO, because we know know no good gay loving liberal ever did anything stupid as a teenager. Black Jesus did crack, quite often, and only didn't do heroine because he didn't like the guy pushing it, but remember when Bush did crack? I know, that's important too right? RIGHT?

quote:

quote:

This is extraordinary: A Republican pollster who worked for Bush in '04 is documenting why it's necessary for the conservative movement to support gay people and especially marriage equality if Republicans are to remain relevant in any way moving forward. Simply extraordinary. The snowball is picking up steam.
But it will melt in hell....where our country is going as we become more and more godless.

Twatworth
Apr 5, 2012


Strudel Man posted:

American Exceptionalism.

Your country is one giant headfuck to those of us lucky enough not to live there. What you guys do make no sense whatsoever.

Armyman25
Sep 6, 2005


I don't think Bush or Obama did crack. My impression is powdered cocaine is the thing at Harvard.

Riptor
Apr 13, 2003

here's to feelin' good all the time


Twatworth posted:

Your country is one giant headfuck to those of us lucky enough not to live there. What you guys do make no sense whatsoever.

This is insightful and a viewpoint never before expressed on these forums!!!

Tatum Girlparts
Sep 8, 2011

More like Tantrum Girlparts!
I can't be smug if I never stop whining.



Armyman25 posted:

I don't think Bush or Obama did crack. My impression is powdered cocaine is the thing at Harvard.

Yea it's funny in his insane 'HOW DARE YOU THINK I'M A BIGOT' rant he assumed the black dude did crack. They both did blow like, a couple times.

UltimoDragonQuest
Oct 5, 2011



Rhode Island gov. signed an executive order to recognize all out of state marriages.
This is great because the law used to be that anyone passing through or employed in RI had their CT/MA same sex marriage temporarily downgraded to a civil union.

The marriage and improved civil union bills are still winding through the legislature.

UltimoDragonQuest fucked around with this message at May 14, 2012 around 21:02

LeftistMuslimObama
Jan 6, 2012

GOD DAMMIT RICKIE

UltimoDragonQuest posted:

Rhode Island gov. signed an executive order to recognize all out of state marriages.
This is great because the law used to be that anyone passing through or employed in RI had their CT/MA same sex marriage downgraded to a civil union.

The marriage and improved civil union bills are still winding through the legislature.

Wait, so if you got married in a state that recognized same sex marriages, and then moved to Rhode Island, your marriage was automatically changed to a civil union? Even if you went back to the state you were married in? Or did RI just only recognize the marriage as a civil union for their purposes?

Riptor
Apr 13, 2003

here's to feelin' good all the time


LeftistMuslimObama posted:

Wait, so if you got married in a state that recognized same sex marriages, and then moved to Rhode Island, your marriage was automatically changed to a civil union? Even if you went back to the state you were married in? Or did RI just only recognize the marriage as a civil union for their purposes?

The second one; Rhode Island can't affect how Massachusetts would see your wedding done in Massachusetts

UltimoDragonQuest
Oct 5, 2011



So Colorado turned to poo poo.

Civil union bill somehow got sent to a 4th committee where the Republicans finally managed to kill it, including one with a gay son.
Ice cold!

Loving Life Partner
Apr 17, 2003

You want to file a WHAT!?

UltimoDragonQuest posted:

So Colorado turned to poo poo.

Civil union bill somehow got sent to a 4th committee where the Republicans finally managed to kill it, including one with a gay son.
Ice cold!

Yeah. Sucks hard. I have no less than 4 gay people on my team at work who were cheering this on. Maybe next time guys

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012


Oh gently caress no. Seriously? That's total bullshit!

Oh gently caress you, Republicans. gently caress you, gently caress you, gently caress you, ar;auhfg;ofh!

Steak Flavored Gum
Apr 26, 2007

ABANDONED HOMEWORLD FOR SALE, CHEAP!!!
Custom desert-marsh conversion in galactic core, 12% oxygen atm., great weather, friendly native life (missing one moon). Great fix-er-upper. Must sell, alien invasion imminent. $3995 or best offer.

It's alright, once their generation dies it'll be a nonissue.

I wonder if it's possible to find a bookie somewhere who'll give me odds on the Republicans voting themselves into complete irrelevance in the next ten years?

Gorilla Salad
Sep 22, 2003

There's no problem that can't be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts


Steak Flavored Gum posted:

It's alright, once their generation dies it'll be a nonissue.

I wonder if it's possible to find a bookie somewhere who'll give me odds on the Republicans voting themselves into complete irrelevance in the next ten years?

I'm sorry, but that is almost painfully naive.

Bigots have no problem making little bigots in their image.

Just type "enjoyable human being" or the homophobic keyword of your choice into Facebook's search by everyone and see how the next generation is perfectly fine with hating gay people.

UltimoDragonQuest
Oct 5, 2011



Gorilla Salad posted:

I'm sorry, but that is almost painfully naive.

Bigots have no problem making little bigots in their image.

Just type "enjoyable human being" or the homophobic keyword of your choice into Facebook's search by everyone and see how the next generation is perfectly fine with hating gay people.
2009


2010 and 2011


2012


Sorry for the inconsistent charts but Gallup is inconsistent with what they provide.

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

FLAVA FLAV!!!!!

Gorilla Salad posted:

I'm sorry, but that is almost painfully naive.

Bigots have no problem making little bigots in their image.

Just type "enjoyable human being" or the homophobic keyword of your choice into Facebook's search by everyone and see how the next generation is perfectly fine with hating gay people.

I think gay marriage is one of those things that is getting better with time. However, issues of race and most likely other LBGT issues are probably still in the shitter in terms of the newer generations.

Gorilla Salad
Sep 22, 2003

There's no problem that can't be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts


Oh, I don't doubt for a moment things are getting better. My issue is with the mistaken idea of "Wait for your parents to die and we'll be living in wonderland" that I see a lot of from young people.

Racism, sexism and homophobia are all miles ahead of what they were in the previous generations, but when you have institutions like Liberty University and Liberty Academy indoctrinating kids from the beginning of their secondary education to the end of their tertiary with hateful right-wing bile, it's not just naive to stand by and hope that things work themselves out, it dangerous.


My point is that we need to keep pushing. Because if we don't, they'll push back.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002


Every soup ladled to the hungry, every blanket draped over the cold signifies, in the final sense, a theft from my gigantic paycheck.

This is an article I thought was perticularly interesting: http://www.salon.com/2012/05/14/our...dent/singleton/

Essentially, the article is attacking the notion that things always get better, using James Buchanan (who apparently was gay!) as an example - things can, and did, get worse for gay people in our history.

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

FLAVA FLAV!!!!!

evilweasel posted:

This is an article I thought was perticularly interesting: http://www.salon.com/2012/05/14/our...dent/singleton/

Essentially, the article is attacking the notion that things always get better, using James Buchanan (who apparently was gay!) as an example - things can, and did, get worse for gay people in our history.

Yeah, he is fighting against a Whig interpretation of history (The notion that we always move forward as time goes on.

Shalebridge Cradle
Apr 23, 2008


evilweasel posted:

This is an article I thought was perticularly interesting: http://www.salon.com/2012/05/14/our...dent/singleton/

Essentially, the article is attacking the notion that things always get better, using James Buchanan (who apparently was gay!) as an example - things can, and did, get worse for gay people in our history.

Oddly enough the thing that stuck out the most was that maybe I should shave my facial hair.

But really people who see marriage as inevitable are looking at the tail end of decades of fighting and legal battles and saying that it is inevitbale, just assuming history marches towards equality.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003


The article does have some good points but I think it is being quite dishonest in suggesting that there was any sort of tolerance for gays in any period of US history before the start of the gay rights movement in the 70s. It is true that gays before WWII had it much better than they did in the post-WWII to 1960s period but that's only because in that period gays were the subject of widespread state sponsored witch hunts and harassment.

Before then the anti-gay laws were enforced more sporadically but there was never any real societal acceptance or even acknowledgement for gays in this time. In the time of Buchanan the word "homosexual" wasn't even in use and they weren't recognized as a class of people, there was just the act of sodomy which was considered a terrible thing even though you were less likely to be thrown in prison for doing it at that time than in some other periods of American history.

Shalebridge Cradle
Apr 23, 2008


MaxxBot posted:

The article does have some good points but I think it is being quite dishonest in suggesting that there was any sort of tolerance for gays in any period of US history before the start of the gay rights movement in the 70s. It is true that gays before WWII had it much better than they did in the post-WWII to 1960s period but that's only because in that period gays were the subject of widespread state sponsored witch hunts and harassment.

Before then the anti-gay laws were enforced more sporadically but there was never any real societal acceptance or even acknowledgement for gays in this time. In the time of Buchanan the word "homosexual" wasn't even in use and they weren't recognized as a class of people, there was just the act of sodomy which was considered a terrible thing even though you were less likely to be thrown in prison for doing it at that time than in some other periods of American history.

But isn't that the entire point of the article? It literally was better in 1844 than post WWII because there weren't witch hunts for sodomites. Its not that those years were idyllic, just that It Gets Worse(tm)

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003


Shalebridge Cradle posted:

But isn't that the entire point of the article? It literally was better in 1844 than post WWII because there weren't witch hunts for sodomites. Its not that those years were idyllic, just that It Gets Worse(tm)

I just think it's being dishonest in trying to suggest that "the nation" knew and tolerated that fact that Buchanan was gay. The reality is that the concept of sexual orientation didn't even exist at the time and if you had suggested that Buchanan had sex with men you'd probably be labeled as some sort of monster. It was really more ignorance and circumstance rather than tolerance that allowed Buchanan to exist as a gay man without being locked up.

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade

Isn't this throwing out a very excluded middle? It seems that things for humanity have improved overall for almost any metric you want to use, even if there are localized backswings here and there.

Given the choice of living 100 years ago or 100 years from now (or any either arbitrary amount of time away from now), I doubt many people, even LGBT folks, would choose going back to going forward.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002


Every soup ladled to the hungry, every blanket draped over the cold signifies, in the final sense, a theft from my gigantic paycheck.

Shalebridge Cradle posted:

But isn't that the entire point of the article? It literally was better in 1844 than post WWII because there weren't witch hunts for sodomites. Its not that those years were idyllic, just that It Gets Worse(tm)

Right: the message I took from this wasn't that things used to be great, it's that the idea that our history is an unbroken march from bad to good is a complete myth. Things weren't perfect back then but they were much better than they were later on.

I think the inevitability argument for gay marriage has a lot going for it because it's not based on any myth-making so much as it's based on solid demographics, but it's important to remember that it's because of that demographic trend. It's not just we always get better.

Shalebridge Cradle
Apr 23, 2008


whydirt posted:

Isn't this throwing out a very excluded middle? It seems that things for humanity have improved overall for almost any metric you want to use, even if there are localized backswings here and there.

Given the choice of living 100 years ago or 100 years from now (or any either arbitrary amount of time away from now), I doubt many people, even LGBT folks, would choose going back to going forward.

Well yeah but that has more to do with antibiotics and industrial farming than anything. And even then thats just the first world.

Steak Flavored Gum
Apr 26, 2007

ABANDONED HOMEWORLD FOR SALE, CHEAP!!!
Custom desert-marsh conversion in galactic core, 12% oxygen atm., great weather, friendly native life (missing one moon). Great fix-er-upper. Must sell, alien invasion imminent. $3995 or best offer.

Gorilla Salad posted:

I'm sorry, but that is almost painfully naive.

I think you're being painfully negative. Even among young evangelical Americans a lot of this poo poo is dropping away, and in mainstream America support for equality is growing across the board especially among youths. No poo poo there are shitheels out there that want to make life difficult, but they're like the Tea Party: a whole lot of press but not nearly as much representation backing them as you might think.

Things will work out.

Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


Steak Flavored Gum posted:

I think you're being painfully negative. Even among young evangelical Americans a lot of this poo poo is dropping away, and in mainstream America support for equality is growing across the board especially among youths. No poo poo there are shitheels out there that want to make life difficult, but they're like the Tea Party: a whole lot of press but not nearly as much representation backing them as you might think.

Things will work out.

Yeah, but the point is things work out because people are actively working to make them work out - the progression of society towards equality, tolerance, freedom, etc, are not things you can take for granted. There's always people pushing back against what might be considered "progress", and they have to be fought, always, because if you don't, it's perfectly possible they can cause society to backslide.

Steak Flavored Gum
Apr 26, 2007

ABANDONED HOMEWORLD FOR SALE, CHEAP!!!
Custom desert-marsh conversion in galactic core, 12% oxygen atm., great weather, friendly native life (missing one moon). Great fix-er-upper. Must sell, alien invasion imminent. $3995 or best offer.

I am not saying that people should stop fighting for it, I'm saying that there is no chance that it won't happen within our generation, so keep your heads up and don't be so negative about temporary setbacks. poo poo'll fall shortly.

Besides it works in our favor eventually anyway because every single time the Republicans go and do this poo poo, another check mark is placed in the history books for the demise of the party's relevance... not that Democrats haven't hosed poo poo up pretty hard, themselves.

I can't wait for DoMA to get repealed and constitutional ban or not in these states, they'll be forced to recognize gay marriages from other states anyway. Suck on that, assholes.

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A GIANT PARSNIP
Apr 13, 2010

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Steak Flavored Gum posted:

I am not saying that people should stop fighting for it, I'm saying that there is no chance that it won't happen within our generation, so keep your heads up and don't be so negative about temporary setbacks. poo poo'll fall shortly.

Besides it works in our favor eventually anyway because every single time the Republicans go and do this poo poo, another check mark is placed in the history books for the demise of the party's relevance... not that Democrats haven't hosed poo poo up pretty hard, themselves.

I can't wait for DoMA to get repealed and constitutional ban or not in these states, they'll be forced to recognize gay marriages from other states anyway. Suck on that, assholes.

The hippies of the 60's turned into the Reagan voters of the 80's.

Is it likely that 20 years from now people will be more accepting than they are today? Yeah, sure. But fewer people fighting every day for equality is a good way to make a lovely future more likely than it should be.

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