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Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead.


Rotten Red Rod posted:

But you can have all the cool components in the world - if the game mechanics are no fun, what's the point? I've been burned by that a number of times - in particular, actually another zombie board game: Zombies!!!. It's got a million expansions, and each one only serves to extend an already tedious and confusing game.
Don't tell me you never played boardgames without adding house rules? Risk is the first game I ever modded to fix the "Australia Defense Force". Years later, I saw some versions allow a second invasion location from Africa.

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Spacedad
Sep 11, 2001

We go play orbital catch around the curvature of the earth, son.


emoticon posted:

We'll know a year down the line. Some projects will inevitably fail or not be good enough, and if people get really angry and start posting about being ripped off then it'll be clear they viewed it more as a preorder than a donation.

A sucker and his money are soon parted. These aren't preorders - this is donating to something that may or may not get made or may or may not be as cool as the idea suggests. Thinking of them as inherent risks is much healthier an attitude to have.

I look at it as a opportunity for a company or individuals to earn enough of my trust to try something I feel is worthwhile. Projects can often fail, however. For any number of reasons. But the point is to at least try.

Spacedad fucked around with this message at May 5, 2012 around 19:06

Spacedad
Sep 11, 2001

We go play orbital catch around the curvature of the earth, son.


Scalding Coffee posted:

Don't tell me you never played boardgames without adding house rules? Risk is the first game I ever modded to fix the "Australia Defense Force". Years later, I saw some versions allow a second invasion location from Africa.

Speaking of board games, iPad based adaptions of higher end board games would be pretty rad. The players could even use iPhones to view their character sheets or card hands with an iPad board in center. Hell, this could revolutionize dungeons and dragons sessions if the players no longer have to look up rules and the game pad does it all right there for them.

yegods
Apr 6, 2007

Cerebus can destroy ANYTHING. Cerebus is the POPE.

LumberingTroll posted:

They have an interesting pledge tier that we as a community could take advantage of, if we get 50 people, which pitch in $50 each, we can all get alpha access and lifetime subscriptions... I am very interested in this, and would be willing to organize it if there is interest.

I've set up a google dock to start organizing. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...WW9LcllObFhTb3c

if we get enough participants we will make the pledge, otherwise, no one has to send cash.

I'm totally down for this! I had already pledged at the $45 level, so it's not much of a bump. I've signed up in the spreadsheet. Hope we get this going!

LumberingTroll
Sep 9, 2007

Really it's not because
I don't like you...


yegods posted:

I'm totally down for this! I had already pledged at the $45 level, so it's not much of a bump. I've signed up in the spreadsheet. Hope we get this going!

For sure! We need someone that can make an OP, I am really too busy to do it right now, running the Kinetic Void Kickstarter :3

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005
"Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler.

By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew."

by GRRM;
the American Tolkien.


2 weeks should be enough time for Eisenwald to cover 15K but they do need a final push

Star Guarded
Feb 10, 2008



Eisenwald should be fine. They have sixteen days to get $12,000, and they've gotten $2,000 so far just today (from $36 to $38). Usually there's a big push when a Kickstarter is about to end to push it over the edge if it isn't already

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead.


Times posted:

Speaking of board games, iPad based adaptions of higher end board games would be pretty rad. The players could even use iPhones to view their character sheets or card hands with an iPad board in center. Hell, this could revolutionize dungeons and dragons sessions if the players no longer have to look up rules and the game pad does it all right there for them.
There must be applications (or apps) for this sort of thing. Allow any decent phone/handheld/computer(s) to connect or provide additional support to game sessions. Society is moving to merge the more expensive electronics in the house, so something smaller like this should be encouraged.

Narmi
Feb 26, 2008


Scalding Coffee posted:

There must be applications (or apps) for this sort of thing. Allow any decent phone/handheld/computer(s) to connect or provide additional support to game sessions. Society is moving to merge the more expensive electronics in the house, so something smaller like this should be encouraged.

They actually do already have these. I remember seeing ads for some game awhile ago where people were set up around an iPad playing something using iPhones (or Pod touches). I can't remember what it was, but a quick google search shows that you can play scrabble using different iPads synched and there's something called MPad that uses iPhone as a controller & an iPad as a screen.

Servant
Aug 3, 2010

... so you see, following that the will of the People cannot be reasonably interpreted down to the individual level, a legitimate government should operate purely through coin-flips...

Times posted:

A sucker and his money are soon parted. These aren't preorders - this is donating to something that may or may not get made or may or may not be as cool as the idea suggests.

There's a difference between an item not being as cool as the idea suggests...and an item not actually existing in the first place. The former is an acceptable risk, but the latter is just terrible and worthy of shame. You (the Kickstarter OPer) made a promise with that reward, and you could choose not to offer that specific reward on the Kickstarter, yet now that you did so, and now that you received money from individuals who donated to receive that reward, you really should fulfill that promise. Why offer "rewards" in the first place if you can't deliver upon them and you are unsure the product will actually be created?

There's a reason why scams are illegal. (EDIT: Though, I don't view Kickstarters as altruistic attempts to produce ideas, but merely an attempt to raise funds, with one way to raise fund being the offering of 'rewards' that may or may not be produced. The honor system of Kickstarter is a significant weakness of the system though, because there is little to no accountability once the money is dispersed.)

Servant fucked around with this message at May 5, 2012 around 21:08

macnbc
Dec 13, 2006

brb, time travelin'


Servant posted:

Why offer "rewards" in the first place if you can't deliver upon them and you are unsure the product will actually be created?

Because it's a lot easier to call them "rewards" than "if this all works out here is what we will send as a gift for your support which got us there"

Kickstarters are bets. Some bets you might win, some bets you might lose. Some are safer bets than others. The rewards are what tangible benefit you will get out of it if you win.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010



Servant posted:

There's a difference between an item not being as cool as the idea suggests...and an item not actually existing in the first place. The former is an acceptable risk, but the latter is just terrible and worthy of shame. You (the Kickstarter OPer) made a promise with that reward, and you could choose not to offer that specific reward on the Kickstarter, yet now that you did so, and now that you received money from individuals who donated to receive that reward, you really should fulfill that promise. Why offer "rewards" in the first place if you can't deliver upon them and you are unsure the product will actually be created?

There's a reason why scams are illegal. (EDIT: Though, I don't view Kickstarters as altruistic attempts to produce ideas, but merely an attempt to raise funds, with one way to raise fund being the offering of 'rewards' that may or may not be produced. The honor system of Kickstarter is a significant weakness of the system though, because there is little to no accountability once the money is dispersed.)

It's an honor system but if you use a little common sense you can still feel safe donating to certain products but also grade the amount you give. For instance, the guys at Doublefine are all very smart and I trust them to produce content I'll enjoy as well as decent rewards, so I gave them. Brian Fargo seems legit but I'm not sure about the guys at InExile so I gave them less. The Kinetic Void guys produced a really fun proof of concept and I've been following their progress so I jumped on their bandwagon as well. The Shadowrun guys I know nothing about except that I really like the idea of a Shadowrun game and I'm sure they can produce something, so I just jumped on the minimum tier to receive the game. But if you're an indie team who has never made a game and only has some concept art to post, I'm just going to wait until the game comes out.

Quarex
Apr 18, 2003

Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland.

Read paragraph 65.


Star Guarded posted:

Eisenwald should be fine. They have sixteen days to get $12,000, and they've gotten $2,000 so far just today (from $36 to $38). Usually there's a big push when a Kickstarter is about to end to push it over the edge if it isn't already
I was looking through a few dozen pages of finished Kickstarters the other day, and it really is kind of amazing how almost every non-funded Kickstarter ends at somewhere between 0 and ~40% of its total. There is definitely an economic study just begging to be done here about excitement/momentum/peer pressure; it would not surprise me at all if, ceteris paribus* [!], people are more likely to try to drum up additional support for a project that looks likely to succeed than for one that does not. You might think that just sounds obvious, but "things that sound obvious" are often great subjects for research!


*Latin for "pretentious academic rear end in a top hat"

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005
"Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler.

By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew."

by GRRM;
the American Tolkien.


Quarex posted:

I was looking through a few dozen pages of finished Kickstarters the other day, and it really is kind of amazing how almost every non-funded Kickstarter ends at somewhere between 0 and ~40% of its total. There is definitely an economic study just begging to be done here about excitement/momentum/peer pressure; it would not surprise me at all if, ceteris paribus* [!], people are more likely to try to drum up additional support for a project that looks likely to succeed than for one that does not. You might think that just sounds obvious, but "things that sound obvious" are often great subjects for research!


*Latin for "pretentious academic rear end in a top hat"

The invisible foot of Kickstarter

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.


Quarex posted:

I was looking through a few dozen pages of finished Kickstarters the other day, and it really is kind of amazing how almost every non-funded Kickstarter ends at somewhere between 0 and ~40% of its total. There is definitely an economic study just begging to be done here about excitement/momentum/peer pressure; it would not surprise me at all if, ceteris paribus* [!], people are more likely to try to drum up additional support for a project that looks likely to succeed than for one that does not. You might think that just sounds obvious, but "things that sound obvious" are often great subjects for research!

*Latin for "pretentious academic rear end in a top hat"
I think the interesting piece would rather be on how additional support is being created for projects that are already fully funded, as those who are already invested and who have already been promised that the thing will happen now have an incentive to try to get more for their money by reaching whatever stretch goals the project has set up.

On the aforementioned list of things that sound obvious, this would be a third category in terms of the backer behaviour and the way the tail-end of a backing drive transpires.

Master_Odin
Apr 15, 2010

My spear never misses its mark...

ladies


As I've been incredibly busy the past couple weeks with end of year classes, I've fallen incredibly behind with the second post, can someone fill me in with all the exciting projects that should have goon support?

snipermonkey
Jun 30, 2010


There is this http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...an/kinetic-void . LumberingTroll is developer on that game.
Here is the thread http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=3482187

helopticor
Sep 21, 2004


There's Gravitaz, which has Shalinor on the team. SA thread

Saoshyant
Oct 26, 2010

not one bit


buttopticor posted:

There's Gravitaz, which has Shalinor on the team. SA thread

Oh, I had forgotten about this one. I didn't chip in because it's not my kind of game, but it's a shame it's most likely not going to meet its goal. $6,619 of $25,000, three days to go.

Another issue with Kickstarter. Even when your goal isn't that huge, if you don't get some exposure somewhere like the gaming media or reddit or whatever you will have a huge, steep climb trying to meet your goal.

Uncle Jam
Aug 20, 2005

Perfect


buttopticor posted:

There's Gravitaz, which has Shalinor on the team. SA thread

I looked at this and I think I'm still burnt out on this genre. There were so many of these kinds of games for like PS1, we rented one every other weekend, and almost every single one of them was really lovely. I'm not saying what they are doing won't be fun, but seeing the alpha in an unfinished state immediately reminds me of those games.

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010



poo poo, I forgot to retract my donation for Echoes of Eternia.

That's $15 down the drain.

Mug
Apr 26, 2005


That loving Sned posted:

poo poo, I forgot to retract my donation for Echoes of Eternia.

That's $15 down the drain.

Why would you retract on a pledge?

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010



Mug posted:

Why would you retract on a pledge?

Because I changed my mind about wanting the game. I've already got tons of indie classic-with-a-modern-twist RPGs I haven't touched, so another 'We want to be like Final Fantasy' RPG Maker game is the last thing I should be buying.

I'm not really sold on their promises, like an "Emotional and Compelling story line. (Details coming soon)" or "Highly tactical Battle System", when I've seen what these home-made RPGs usually end up like (with some notable exceptions).

Mug
Apr 26, 2005


Yeah, I'm sure the game will be terrible/never exist, I'm just surprised it's even possible to retract a pledge.

Rebel Blob
Mar 1, 2008

Extinction for our time

Man, it hasn't been all that long and new Kickstarter projects seem to be getting zero coverage. I just stumbled upon Skyjacker browsing Kickstarter, which seems like something that might have gotten more attention not too long ago. At least they have a nice looking gameplay video. Too bad the pitch is bizarre and poorly written, even accounting for the fact that English is probably not the first language of the writer.

Swagger Dagger
Dec 13, 2010

You are not machines. You are not cattle. You are men. You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate, only the unloved hate. Only the unloved and the unnatural.


Mug posted:

Yeah, I'm sure the game will be terrible/never exist, I'm just surprised it's even possible to retract a pledge.

Why? You're not signing a contract, until the fund raising period ends that money belongs to you.

SupSuper
Apr 8, 2009

At the Heart of the city is an Alien horror, so vile and so powerful that not even death can claim it.


Rebel Blob posted:

Man, it hasn't been all that long and new Kickstarter projects seem to be getting zero coverage. I just stumbled upon Skyjacker browsing Kickstarter, which seems like something that might have gotten more attention not too long ago. At least they have a nice looking gameplay video. Too bad the pitch is bizarre and poorly written, even accounting for the fact that English is probably not the first language of the writer.
I'm starting to see what people mean by Kickstarter being oversaturated with space games and RPGs.

Also, comparisons like this in the description probably don't help:

quote:

SKYJACKER is:
LOTR by its gaming atmosphere of space saga
GTA by its criminal background and freedom of choice inside the game
NFS by its energy and gameplay dynamics, and ability to customize the vehicle

And all of them together, transferred to space.

seorin
May 23, 2005

2 Sun's Dusk (Day 78)
Of the Seven Visions of Seven Trials of the Incarnate, I have now fulfilled the Fifth Trial.

Rebel Blob posted:

Man, it hasn't been all that long and new Kickstarter projects seem to be getting zero coverage.

Yeah, Storybricks looks like it's going to fail because of that.

I think the problem is that, while a $100,000+ video game kickstarter was rare and newsworthy two months ago, it's become very commonplace now and it's not really noteworthy enough to make headlines. It's a shame that the free exposure and fan funding is starting to die down, but I'm still really glad for the projects that were able to take advantage of it while it lasted (particularly Banner Saga, which might not have been funded at all if they'd waited).

Der Shovel
Dec 26, 2003

Keep on dancing, Moomin

That loving Sned posted:

Because I changed my mind about wanting the game. I've already got tons of indie classic-with-a-modern-twist RPGs I haven't touched, so another 'We want to be like Final Fantasy' RPG Maker game is the last thing I should be buying.

Especially since isn't that game made with stolen art and code? Well, not stolen as such but stuff other people made and put out there for free and the dude is now taking for his commercial game because he can't code or do art?

EDIT: apparently they have an art dude now.

Der Shovel fucked around with this message at May 7, 2012 around 10:46

Mordaedil
Oct 25, 2007

Yup, that's a skjold all right.

I'm personally holding off on sponsering more Kickstarters until I see one launch successfully.

It's one thing to preorder and quite another to invest in a risk product that could explode in my face.

And one kickstarter at some point is going to fail, and fail big time.

It just might not be any of the current ones.

Saoshyant
Oct 26, 2010

not one bit


Mordaedil posted:

I'm personally holding off on sponsering more Kickstarters until I see one launch successfully.

See you next year, then. Nothing much will be coming out before that.

Mordaedil posted:

It's one thing to preorder and quite another to invest in a risk product that could explode in my face.

No, it's actually the exact same thing or have you never pre-ordered a game before? Things like Stronghold 3, Sword of the Stars 2, Brink, Duke Nukem Forever, Dead Island were all available for pre-order and I challenge you to find anyone that didn't think those blew up on their face, with the caveat that at least the Kickstarter games are way cheaper.

And alpha-funding is nothing new. Have you seen Minecraft, Starfarer, or Xenonauts? You aren't buying the game; you're buying a promise that those games in the future would/will turn out to be good.

Like in all areas in one's life, being smart with your money is the most important thing you can do. Just don't say pre-ordering a game from an AAA studio now is something better and risk-free than pre-ordering via Kickstarter, because it isn't. Results will vary in both cases, and you may get rewarded or hosed accordingly.

vvvvv I doubt they will manage to get it ready for November, seeing as the extra funds will bring new features, which in turn will take additional time.

Saoshyant fucked around with this message at May 7, 2012 around 11:21

NINbuntu 64
Feb 10, 2007



Saoshyant posted:

See you next year, then. Nothing much will be coming out before that.

Banner Saga is supposedly supposed to hit in November.

Mojo Jojo
Sep 21, 2005
Hypnotist of Ladies

Mordaedil posted:

I'm personally holding off on sponsering more Kickstarters until I see one launch successfully.


Seeing one launch won't change anything, it'll still come down to judging it on a per team basis.

Dragonrah
Aug 22, 2003

J.C. Bearington, III


NINbuntu 64 posted:

Banner Saga is supposedly supposed to hit in November.

Yeah, but that estimate was before all the stretch funding. I don't think it'll be delayed that long, but probably pushed back a bit.

Mordaedil
Oct 25, 2007

Yup, that's a skjold all right.

Saoshyant posted:

See you next year, then. Nothing much will be coming out before that.
I'm not saying I'll stop looking at Kickstarters, just saying I'll probably not invest in any of them.

Saoshyant posted:

No, it's actually the exact same thing or have you never pre-ordered a game before? Things like Stronghold 3, Sword of the Stars 2, Brink, Duke Nukem Forever, Dead Island were all available for pre-order and I challenge you to find anyone that didn't think those blew up on their face, with the caveat that at least the Kickstarter games are way cheaper.
I've pre-ordered plenty of games, just not games that are far off from being finished in development. I usually wait until the last few months when the game has reached polished state before bothering to pre-order.

Duke Nukem Forever was a tough lesson for everyone.

Saoshyant posted:

And alpha-funding is nothing new. Have you seen Minecraft, Starfarer, or Xenonauts? You aren't buying the game; you're buying a promise that those games in the future would/will turn out to be good.

Like in all areas in one's life, being smart with your money is the most important thing you can do. Just don't say pre-ordering a game from an AAA studio now is something better and risk-free than pre-ordering via Kickstarter, because it isn't. Results will vary in both cases, and you may get rewarded or hosed accordingly.

I agree! Being smart with money is incredibly important! This has been the most risky pre-order I've ever done, but I take it in faith because I know the developers I've supported and have faith in their capability to deliver a product (or because I won't miss the amount I donate for that particular project)

In the case of Minecraft, I bought something that I got. I have product I am satisfied with and any future development on it was just a bonus for me. If I buy Xenonauts, same deal.

The lesson is to be sure you'll be satisfied with what you invest in as it is, not what it promises to turn into. That tends to make things more sour than it should be.

Kickstarters just leave me hoping it won't be a bail-out.

Quarex
Apr 18, 2003

Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland.

Read paragraph 65.


I think Chris Huelsbeck's Turrican Soundtrack Kickstarter is the only* ongoing Kickstarter that seems to have the power of massive nostalgia propelling it forward; he posted an update yesterday about selling a limited set of 10 music boxes that played the song "The Great Bath" from the game, at a $1,500 reward tier. They all sold out before I read the update.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...11?ref=activity

*Edit: drat, I forgot Jane Jensen. And I am sure someone will post 50 others.

Quarex fucked around with this message at May 7, 2012 around 12:53

snipermonkey
Jun 30, 2010


I think it's the oversaturation of projects at the same time. Leading to people not having money to donate or when they do get the money, they probably forget the kickstarters they were mildly interested in.

TerryLennox
Oct 12, 2009

There is nothing tougher than a tough Mexican, just as there is nothing gentler than a gentle Mexican, nothing more honest than an honest Mexican, and above all nothing sadder than a sad Mexican. -R. Chandler.


We should talk more about possible Kickstarter projects instead of arguing whether Kickstarter is a valid avenue to obtain funding and if the dev's will spend my $675 snorting cocaine off a dead hooker's rear end crack.

Personally, I would love to see a reboot of the D20 Buck Rogers franchise. A remake of Buck Rogers Countdown to Doomsday and Matrix Cubed would kick more rear end than Chris Avellone wearing a ballerina tutu, dual-wielding ripper knives.

If you haven't played it, you might find the ROM floating around for the Genesis/Mega Drive. Its one of these rare cases that the console port of a PC game is much better than the original game. Better sounds and music.

It wouldn't need to improve much, the mechanics were pretty solid. Playstation-era graphics would be good enough.

Escape Velocity Nova remade in modern graphics and tech would be very sweet too. Unfortunately, Ambrosia seems content to release lovely games for the mac instead of putting that IP to good use.

Legend of Mana would be cake too if Square would stop sucking Final Fantasy dick long enough to notice.

snipermonkey
Jun 30, 2010


Looks like Grim Dawn will meets its goal today. According to kicktraq they seemed to have plateaued at 7000 - 8000 dollars a day and today they have had only about 3000 dollars pledged. Only 4000 to go.

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Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004

I am the white sky high over Tripoli

Saoshyant posted:

Like in all areas in one's life, being smart with your money is the most important thing you can do. Just don't say pre-ordering a game from an AAA studio now is something better and risk-free than pre-ordering via Kickstarter, because it isn't. Results will vary in both cases, and you may get rewarded or hosed accordingly.

Not really. There is no benefit to pre-ordering games from large studios, unless you count stupid-rear end weapons exclusive to Gamestop as something desirable.

There's minimal benefit to supporting a Kickstarter if it is any good, because then you might get the game cheaper, or get some extra funding perk or whatever.

Either way, if you want to be smart with your money, you'll wait until the drat game comes out and gets good reviews, and then buy it. The "reward" you're talking about isn't a reward, it's "Hey, I didn't waste my money." There are other ways to accomplish that goal.

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