Hillsborough disaster discussion (report released 12/09)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Ray Parlour > Hillsborough disaster discussion (report released 12/09)

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

e: just saw that finn

# ¿ Sep 12, 2012 13:14

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 12:17

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

28 people had signs of no obstruction of airways
16 people heart and lungs showing definite signs of working

'Some overlap between those two figures' but 41 people had evidence that they had potential to survive past 3:15.

loving hell.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2012 14:02

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

The Sun didn't send a journalist to cover the panel, no representation at all.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2012 14:58

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

serious gaylord posted:

Conflicts with BBC just saying that Trevor Hicks ordered anyone from the sun out of his conference.

Nobody was there to move, that's how they realised.

The Guardian Liveblog - 14:56 posted:

Hicks asks any Sun journalists present to leave the press conference. No one leaves, though, as one of the other family members points out "would they tell the truth?"

# ¿ Sep 12, 2012 15:02

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Kelvin MacKenzie just offered his 'profuse apology'.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2012 15:11

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

T. Mascis posted:

Where? And I'd like to see the BBC justify his continued employment after this

BBC News flashed it and reported it just after the silence, BBC reporter has just put it to the panel as well.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2012 15:16

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

The narrative from the Sun is that they're victims of the Police misleading them, there's no real apology there and they're still scum.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2012 22:04

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

There's also the fact that every conviction made by South Yorkshire Police in that period is potentially unsafe, and the political and legal fallout that will result.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2012 23:12

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Ninpo posted:

I was 8 at the time so some of my recollection is fuzzy, were any supporters convicted of anything following and related to Hillsborough?

No I mean every conviction over that period, 116 doctored statements by senior officers.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2012 23:24

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

FullLeatherJacket posted:

From reading the report, what they're referring to are statements to the Taylor inquiry, and SYP basically said up front that they'd edited statements, but to remove matters of "opinion" as opposed to fact. There was no great need for them to do that, and that much was said at the time, but then everything carried on as normal.

I'm not sure that what they've done there is actually illegal, in that context, although obviously done to remove criticism of police actions on the day.

Every decision to alter could be argued as misconduct in a public office.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2012 23:51

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

T. Mascis posted:

Well since today revealed one of the biggest cover ups in British history the morning papers will probably be something to take note of. Let's see shall we:

But you must always save the best for last, and ahahahahahahahahah the loving Telegraph, gently caress you, burn

Just to add to how utterly hosed that is;

The FT manage to find some space on their front page to cover the report;

And even the New York Times manages to have it feature as well.

For the Telegraph to do that is baffling to be honest.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2012 02:07

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Umbriago, what's your view on the AG pursuing Misconduct in a Public Offie charges?

# ¿ Sep 13, 2012 15:02

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Umbriago posted:

Hmmm, well I'm not really familiar with the case law here, so take my thoughts with a pinch of salt. A quick look at the offence and I see at least two grounds where a charge of Misconduct in a Public Office would probably fail.

Interesting that you see potential FA culpability, but I meant South Yorkshire Police and the Ambulance service.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2012 15:33

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Sheila Coleman has confirmed that she was a hacking victim, probably more of the JFT96 campaign as well.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2012 22:42

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

irlZaphod posted:

Jesus loving Christ

I honestly can't think of how it would play out if the Sun had been hacking them, which is what a lot of operation Tuleta is looking at.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2012 22:57

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

This is slightly more removed from Hillsborough as a coverup, but;

SW Online posted:

Hillsborough campaigner Sheila Coleman�s home was broken into more than once�and her address book and papers about the case stolen. The question is: who did it?

She told Socialist Worker about the burglaries as evidence emerged that a private detective agency carried out a burglary while working for the now-closed News of the World.

A police intelligence report indicates that Southern Investigations �gained unauthorised access� to the home of a newsworthy person �with a view to gaining information�.

Sheila told Socialist Worker that the burglaries of her home fit this pattern�as the thieves did not take items of monetary value. �On one occasion only my address book was stolen,� she said.

�I know private investigators were paid by News International to break into people�s houses and take their address books.�

On another occasion, after the inquest ended, Sheila got home to find her flat had been broken into. �There was nothing taken of any value on the streets�, she said. �But in the park nearby was my briefcase with all my Hillsborough papers strewn all over.�

Read through Brown Moses' thread for the whole Southern Investigations/NOTW/News International links.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2012 10:00

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

The solicitor who represented the families at the initial inquest is on the record as being a oval office.

Daily Mail posted:

Link

A solicitor who represented the families of Hillsborough victims after the disaster told the coroner he thought his clients just 'wanted their 15 minutes of fame'. The report also showed that Mr Fraser suggested the cut-off point for evidence should 'probably' be nine minutes earlier than the 3.15pm time eventually imposed by coroner Dr Stefan Popper. Several families wanted this cut-off point pushed back to allow for a thorough investigation.

Documents reveal Mr Fraser, who is now Liverpool�s deputy coroner, told South Yorkshire Police and the coroner some families were 'hotheads'. The panel was critical of Mr Fraser, saying his behaviour suggested 'a surprisingly critical, if not contemptuous, view of some of the bereaved families whose interests he represented'. The comments were made in February 1990 when Mr Fraser met with the coroner, South Yorkshire Police and the force�s lawyer Peter Metcalf to decide on the format of inquests.
A note disclosed to the panel of the meeting records Mr Fraser saying: 'There will be some families who want their, someone said, their 15 minutes of fame. 'I suppose to some extent they are going to have to be given that opportunity aren�t they? I think the vast majority will go through very smoothly but I think that there will be one or two who are going [sic] problems. 'There will be one or two hotheads who will look for the ulterior motive behind this. The vast majority will accept it in the spirit in which it�s done. The press will do the same.'

Later in the conversation Mr Fraser and the coroner discussed start times for inquests and he suggested one family should have an early start in the morning at 9am. The minutes quote him saying: 'There is one family who would swell the coffers of the local hostelry before they arrived.'

Today Trevor Hicks, president of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, who lost his daughters Vicki, 15, and Sarah, 19, at the tragedy said Mr Fraser should resign. He said: 'This is a form of betrayal, I am staggered. 'He should consider his position. Any credibility he might have had has gone out of the window. 'I thought I was beyond shock after last week but I am so disappointed with him.' He said Mr Fraser was another name to add to the list of people who had let down the families of the 96.

Everything coming out about this is hosed, from bottom to top.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2012 13:06

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Director of Public Prosecutions is reviewing the report;

Kier Starmer posted:

I have now concluded that the Crown Prosecution Service should consider all the material now available in relation to the tragic events of 15 April 1989, including material made available by the independent panel.

The purpose of this investigation is to identify what the focus of any further criminal investigation should be in order for the CPS to determine whether this is now sufficient evidence to charge any individual or corporate body with any criminal offence.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission is reviewing the report'

Deborah Glass (Deputy IPCC) posted:

We are going to be launching an independent investigation into those new matters. We've carried out a review of the report and begun looking at the 450,000 pages of underlying evidence. We have identified a large number of potential criminal and misconduct offences.

The potential criminal misconduct offences fall into two broad categories. There are allegations that go to the heart of what happened at Hillsborough and allegations about what happened afterwards.

A large number of current and former officers will be under investigation, including Sir Norman Bettison.

At the moment, we don't actually know which officers we're investigating. This will be the largest independent inquiry that has been launched into the actions of the police in the United Kingdom.

The alleged nature of some of the amendments may amount to the criminal offences of perverting the course of justice or misconduct in public office. The deliberate alteration of statements may also raise misconduct offences in relation to honesty and integrity.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/12/hillsborough-disaster-biggest-inquiry-police

There are serving senior officers who, hopefully, will be facing charges and they deserve every minute of terror they're going to have in the coming months.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2012 17:43

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

They've also revised the number of people who may have survived upwards, from between 41 to somewhere around 58 people based on fresh medical analysis.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2012 14:18

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

South Yorkshire Police will always be cunts;

quote:

South Yorkshire police chiefs wanted to use funds donated in memory of Hillsborough disaster victims to pay for breaks in the sun for their officers, it has emerged.

The ECHO can reveal a holiday flat, microwave ovens for police station kitchens and new gym equipment were on a wish list circulated among senior officers in February 1991.

The majority of the �12m fund had been given to families, survivors and others affected by the disaster, including match stewards at the stadium.

But a significant amount of what were described as �residual� funds remained, and its trustees asked police and other organisations for ideas on how they might be used.

Former Merseyside chief constable Norman Bettison, then a Superintendent based in South Yorkshire Police�s F Division, requested �2,000 to refurbish the reception area of his police station.

Other ideas included new blinds for the force�s casualty bureau and �better gifts� for officers on sick leave.

The disaster fund included �100,000 from Liverpool FC, as well as money from Liverpool city council and the proceeds of a charity version of Ferry Cross the Mersey featuring Paul McCartney and Gerry Marsden, which was number one for three weeks in May and June, 1989.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/south-yorkshire-police-wanted-spend-5749493

# ¿ Aug 19, 2013 15:22

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

utter scum

# ¿ Sep 2, 2013 01:04

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 12:17

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

It's clickbait of the worst kind, ignoring it is the only sensible option

# ¿ Apr 22, 2014 13:27

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Ray Parlour > Hillsborough disaster discussion (report released 12/09)