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 So this is a thread where we can discuss the release of the Hillsborough disaster report which is being released today. From the guardian: quote:The families of the 96 people who died in the Hillsborough disaster will receive a report on Wednesday intended to establish the truth about what happened that day and in the aftermath, based on an examination of thousands of official papers. quote:David Cameron will make a statement in the House of Commons on the report, expected at about 12.30pm after prime minister's questions. He has been urged by the families and Merseyside Labour MPs to deliver an apology over failures that caused the disaster, and over the attempt by South Yorkshire police to shift blame on to Liverpool supporters. In the interests of getting this thread up in time for the release of the report I'll leave this first post as it is, but will try and add in some later on. More information about the incident: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster Guardians Liveblog of the release of the report: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/12/hillsborough-disaster-report-panel-released-live
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Sep 12, 2012 12:13
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From the other thread:Scott Bakula posted:Some of the first stuff is coming out and survivors had their blood taken and tested for alcohol without their knowledge and when it was found they had 0% alcohol in their blood the police did criminal background checks. I believe there's an embargo until after David Cameron's speech at 12:30, then I imagine a lot of information will start coming through from the various news sources..
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Sep 12, 2012 12:16
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quote:Some 164 police statements were amended, he says. Many removed comments attacking the police. The number of statements is amazing...
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Sep 12, 2012 12:54
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oh em gee bee ess posted:Draw and quarter MacKenzie for fucks sake. I just went and read his wikipedia page because I hadn't heard of any of the other controversial things he had said / written and hooolllyyyy shhhiiiittt this guy is as bad as they get right...? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_MacKenzie The fact that the BBC could go out and give a guy like that a job is ludicrous.
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Sep 12, 2012 16:03
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kcer posted:The word pushing conjures up entirely misleading imagery to me as well. The idea of a crush can be easy to dismiss unless you've been in a similiar situation. Not to defend the idiots though, all that's needed is to watch some footage or read some first-hand accounts to get an idea of how awful it would be. One of the things that has stood out for me is of how recent this was. I think over the years (since reading about it) my mind has pushed it back further into the past, but it was only 1989! FFS how can something so bad, be handled so poorly, and everyone involved treated so horribly, have only happened in 1989!
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Sep 13, 2012 17:03
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c0burn posted:Good site I found with info on Spurs/Wolves at Hillsborough in 81 http://www.ohwhenthespurs.co.uk/#/hillsborough-1981/4535126148 Look at the stand! Also, quote:The pressure was so intense that I had to lift my chest upwards, above the barrier so that I could breathe. I never touched the ground again until the end of the game.
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Sep 13, 2012 21:51
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quote:If there were "zero" ticketless fans, yes I do believe there would have been less of a crush (even if the crush was the fault of some faceless policeman opening the wrong gate), and in all probability, less fatalities. Is it the "fault" of Liverpool fans, of course not, but do ticketless fans have "some" responsibility in adding to a crush, I would say so. You're wrong. quote:“I have already found that there was not an abnormally large number of fans without tickets on this occasion. With one or two exceptions, the police witnesses themselves did not subscribe to the ‘conspiracy’ theory (of a large number quote:“The police witnesses who most impressed me did not consider the number of ticketless fans to be inordinately large. This accords with two other sources of evidence,” The Interim Taylor Report, paragraph 200 quote:“Sheffield Wednesday FC’s own admission count system showed the terrace did not exceed its 10,100 capacity (for the Leppings Lane end). As part of their analysis, the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) counted the number of [Liverpool] supporters entering the ground, including those through the turnstiles, through Gate C and even those who climbed over the turnstiles. They gave three admission figures based on their analysis. Their first figure was 9,267, their ‘best estimate’ was 9,734, and their third figure was a ‘maximum estimate’ of 10,124. The HSE report stated it was unlikely that the terrace exceeded 10,124 and that total admissions were approximately equal to the designated capacity of 10,100 people. Taylor surmised there was no substance to the allegation that ticketless fans caused the Disaster,” The Hillsborough Football Disaster: Context And Consequences, page 17 quote:"Consistent with Lord Justice Taylor’s findings, the Panel found no evidence among the vast number of disclosed documents and many hours of video material to verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans. There was no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium and force entry and no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying." The Report of the Hillsborough Independent Panel, page 26 quote:but when people try and shout you down for having a slightly contrarian view, then it strikes me that we are not being honest with ourselves. You aren't being shouted down because your view is contrarian, it's because your view is wrong and stupid. There was a Aside from the fact that you are wrong, you have this stupid line of thinking that amounts to basically "well if all the fans stayed home then none of them would have died". It's an ignorant and absurd line of victim blaming and there's a reason why people are having a go at you. sc0tty fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Sep 14, 2012 |
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Sep 14, 2012 08:54
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Pookerbacca posted:Regardless of whether the stand was at or below official capacity, when the chaos ensued (because of the police negligence), the chances of surviving (I would think) would have been better if fans who were not supposed to be there, had not blagged their way in. If only there was a report or some analysis of some kind to find out what effect the 'ticketless' fans had on the impact of the tragedy..
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Sep 14, 2012 11:37
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