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ZigZag posted:The problem with dwarves is not that they are OP since they are really bad at most tv, Look I'm sure you've played a lot and have a reason for saying this but I've never experienced it in any RL league I've played in (admittedly all have run 2 seasons or less) or online. Dwarves suck, they are horrible unfun boring poo poo IMO, generally played by the most awful people and producing the most awful games.
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Sep 18, 2014 15:55
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Look I'm sure you've played a lot and have a reason for saying this but I've never experienced it in any RL league I've played in (admittedly all have run 2 seasons or less) or online. Dwarves suck, they are horrible unfun boring poo poo IMO, generally played by the most awful people and producing the most awful games. Dwarves are arguably overpowered at low TVs, which you're going to run into in a short tournament or league environment. Their win percentage is not outrageous but they're essentially indestructible when claw and mighty blow are scarce. They fall apart at higher TVs, where starting stats are more valuable than starting skills and developed claw players abound.
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Sep 18, 2014 16:01
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Look I'm sure you've played a lot and have a reason for saying this but I've never experienced it in any RL league I've played in (admittedly all have run 2 seasons or less) or online. Dwarves suck, they are horrible unfun boring poo poo IMO, generally played by the most awful people and producing the most awful games. No doubt that only complete idiots play dwarves and that they are the most boring team there is, but they also have a horrible stat line making them pretty terrible. Even in short leagues they are not that good and they tv bloat easily and can't counter a wizard.
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Sep 18, 2014 17:34
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Iretep posted:I'm fine with ghoul rez access if they lose dodge Ghouls having to level up to get dodge, in exchange for them being rezzable would be a good compromise. I think GW values statups/downs all the same for player cost, so subtracting MA reduces dwarf cost the same as subtracting AG or ST. That's kind of dumb because losing MA does not nerf a lineman as much as it does a positional player like a blitzer or runner/catcher. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think linemen should be -10k cheaper for every dropped point of MA. Dwarves are not overpowered at higher TVs, but they are an absolute counter to amazons in particular, and given how good they are at blocking, they don't need cheap rerolls. Victor Vermis posted:Their access right now is GP Normal/SA Doubles. Unless you meant Guard, which would be.. interesting. Yeah you're right, and I always get that backwards for some dumb loving reason, but yes I think linemen on a team that has no passing game should probably have non-doubles Guard access. Also they're "pit fighters," surely strength access on normals would make sense flavor-wise? Right now, Khorne is a weird team because it is so hugely dependent on its big guy - once nicely leveled, he's incredibly dangerous - but otherwise has a lot of pretty fragile players. With all that frenzy, having easier guard access on the team would make it a little easier to put the frenzy to use. ZigZag posted:Khemri is fine as is and cant really be balanced imo. ag3 or giving them 4 mb mummies would be way to op in the early game and mm. Old Khemri was broken as gently caress and the only thing you could tweak without breaking would be removing decay so the dont extra punished by claw POMB at high tv. I'm not advocating AG3 team-wide, just on the Thro-Ras which right now are so bad that a lot of players regard them as traps. They start with Sure Hands, but at AG2 they just can't pick up the ball well, and nobody else on the team can either. Khemri can bash just fine, but if you can't actually score points, being super bashy won't win you games. I would accept Thro-Ras that start with AG3 instead of Sure Hands, so they have to level to get SH. quote:The problem with dwarves is not that they are OP since they are really bad at most tv, the problem is that they completly wreck haflings and gobbos. Removing tackle from the linemen is the obvious answer but i have no clue what they should get to compensate. Everyone wrecks halflings and gobbos, they're the joke stunty teams, but Dwarves also wreck amazons and for some reason have cheapest rerolls even though they don't need them that much since they have thick skull, plenty of block and guard access, AG3 ball handling positionals, and don't throw the ball. Removing tackle would be another decent compromise. quote:undead are already borderline OP. quote:Human catchers should be either ag4 or strenght 3 i dont know if thats enough to make them an ok team but íts a start. Humans are already an OK team. They have the advantage of flexibility of play styles, inexpensive players, and excellent blitzers and throwers. They can have up to four catchers, though, and having human catchers be weaker than elves just seems unflavorful and dumb, in addition to significantly devaluing them. Make them ST3 and if need be make them a touch more expensive to compensate. You don't need 4 on the team, either, a limit of 2 or 3 would be OK. Gabriel Pope posted:Dwarves are arguably overpowered at low TVs, which you're going to run into in a short tournament or league environment. Their win percentage is not outrageous but they're essentially indestructible when claw and mighty blow are scarce. They fall apart at higher TVs, where starting stats are more valuable than starting skills and developed claw players abound. Yeah this basically. I think the "default" mode of playing Bloodbowl is the start-at-1000-TV tournament or league. I know lots of folks enjoy high-TV play, but that's not an arena I'm as familiar with so I probably don't have good insights into balance at that level. It'd be great if a rules revision could address all points levels of play, but failing that, I'd want to focus on team balance at the start in particular, since it is such a crippling thing for tournaments.
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Sep 18, 2014 17:44
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ZigZag posted:No doubt that only complete idiots play dwarves and that they are the most boring team there is, but they also have a horrible stat line making them pretty terrible. I've literally had 2 new players quit leagues (which ended them) after running into Dwarves and getting their rear end handed to them - after having their team busted in half for 2 - 6 games - and being able to do nothing back to them. They are lovely, demoralizing to play for new players, and boring for veterans. If I were to ever try to run an IRL league again, they would be the only team I would ban and I suggest everyone else do the same unless every single player in the league is a veteran. BTW did anyone ever make an alternative set of rules for this game that give it more of an American football feel? No caging, short yardage situations, zone coverage, some kind of down system, salary caps, etc? I've enjoyed BB in the past but I'm kind of done with the game at this point and would like a slightly less random, more footbally version...with werewolves and orcs and stuff.
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Sep 18, 2014 17:53
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:BTW did anyone ever make an alternative set of rules for this game that give it more of an American football feel? No caging, short yardage situations, zone coverage, some kind of down system, salary caps, etc? I've enjoyed BB in the past but I'm kind of done with the game at this point and would like a slightly less random, more footbally version...with werewolves and orcs and stuff. At that point it's less an alternative set of rules and more an entirely different game.
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Sep 18, 2014 17:58
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Gabriel Pope posted:At that point it's less an alternative set of rules and more an entirely different game. Well, I guess that's true. I'm still wondering why nobody has done it, though. REAL Fantasy Football. 
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Sep 18, 2014 18:02
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Not trying to be arrogant, but if skaven are your measurement for balance you would need to nerf several teams as skaven is one of the weaker tier 1 teams along with pro elf. Both woodies and delfs are way way better in any setting and necro, undead and chaos dwarfs are better IMO at the medium tv. Skaven is one of the best designed teams IMO since they are fun for everyone and are fairly competitive.
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Sep 18, 2014 19:05
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Well, I guess that's true. I'm still wondering why nobody has done it, though. REAL Fantasy Football. There is a fumbbl league that has a draft every season. The new incoming players are sent up from a feeder league. That's the closest I've seen in practice, and until fumbbl delivers custom leagues like they've hinted at for years it's probably as close as anyone will come. I've played with the idea of salary caps and player trading, but again it would be very clunky in any format that didn't allow customization of players and/or mixed-teams. As for creating an entirely new game, the big obstacle is how do you make an American football turn-based tactics game where the "Downs" system isn't totally boring? Formations are a huge part of the game- often they decide the results of the play before the ball is even snapped. So you would need to, in my opinion, incorporate those somehow without making the game feel like it's moving at the pace of a real football game. Do you abstract the O-Line? The D-Line? That's kind of lame, particularly if it doesn't allow for player development. Do you Reset players every time a ball carrier is "tackled"? Sounds time consuming. But it's fun to think about and I'm sure there are solutions out there. I'd play the poo poo out of that game.
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Sep 18, 2014 19:49
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My suggestion for an alternate version of Blood Bowl would be to keep everything the same as it is now, except: - You have four turns to score the ball once you pick it up. Four is my suggestion, maybe the number of turns would be tweaked a bit, this would have to be playtested a little. If you still have the ball after failing to score in this time limit, it causes a turnover (I'd suggest automatically giving the ball to a man of the opposing player's choice). - Any player, if they have the ball, can choose to punt it if they are not in any opposing tackle zones. This can be done on any down. Those would be the only changes I'd suggest, really. Make it even more Football-Rugby Hybrid-y. It'd make for a more aggressive, high-scoring version of Blood Bowl, and make punting and special teams a Relevant Thing.
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Sep 18, 2014 19:58
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Faster teams already have a scoring advantage over slower teams, mitigated only by bashing to attrit the other team. Making a slow-moving running play impossible would literally make dwarves and nurgle unplayable, and would severely nerf other slower teams.
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Sep 18, 2014 20:01
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JT Jag posted:My suggestion for an alternate version of Blood Bowl would be to keep everything the same as it is now, except: This idea actually kind of owns, would be elfy as hell though. EDIT: Leperflesh posted:Making a slow-moving running play impossible would literally make dwarves and nurgle unplayable Gabriel Pope posted:This idea actually kind of owns
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Sep 18, 2014 20:02
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Leperflesh posted:Faster teams already have a scoring advantage over slower teams, mitigated only by bashing to attrit the other team. Making a slow-moving running play impossible would literally make dwarves and nurgle unplayable, and would severely nerf other slower teams. In practice, who knows.
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Sep 18, 2014 20:04
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Oh I get it. Hm. Maybe if you got rid of the center-of-the-field LOS completely, have teams kick off after scoring, and put the LOS right where the ball lands, like in real football? You could play with deep-kick vs. shallow-kick strategy and potentially a deep kick could pin the opponent back.
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Sep 18, 2014 20:08
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Leperflesh posted:Oh I get it. Hm.
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Sep 18, 2014 20:18
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The thought of this alternate form of Blood Bowl bounced back in my head, and I see no one posted here since we last discussed it, so I guess I'll bump the thread too. Leperflesh mentioned getting rid of the center-of-field LOS but after thinking about it a bit I'm thinking that you'd keep the normal LOS for the kickoff and then reset the LOS where the kickoff return ends. It might give people some incentive to give players skills that no one ever uses now, like kickoff return, because getting field position would be so important. LOS would be reset after you fail to score and have to punt, too. The opponent would have the opportunity to punt return before the LOS reset. It would only be reset after special teams plays like that though, not after normal turnovers or whatever. And if you turn the ball over on downs it doesn't get reset, the ball just is directly given to whoever the player on defense wants.
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Sep 23, 2014 21:16
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JT Jag posted:The thought of this alternate form of Blood Bowl bounced back in my head, and I see no one posted here since we last discussed it, so I guess I'll bump the thread too. Leperflesh mentioned getting rid of the center-of-field LOS but after thinking about it a bit I'm thinking that you'd keep the normal LOS for the kickoff and then reset the LOS where the kickoff return ends. It might give people some incentive to give players skills that no one ever uses now, like kickoff return, because getting field position would be so important. Sounds like the old system in the Bloodbowl Companion book (which was released a little while after the yellow Star Player book, in 1990). Was very interesting. Four downs, with the LOS resetting to where you were tackled last, and the LOS after a kick off exactly how you describe it. Punting was a thing. Those official books were excellent. Actual referees that moved around randomly and that you could block so they didn't see illegal plays, but they would immediately send off the blocking player once they stand up. I had to check BoardGameGeek to see that the book really existed, because even though I remember it, no-one I know remembers it. It existed, and for a couple years those rules aping actual NFL football were the way everyone played.
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Sep 23, 2014 23:34
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Funso Banjo posted:Those official books were excellent. Actual referees that moved around randomly and that you could block so they didn't see illegal plays, but they would immediately send off the blocking player once they stand up. I had to check BoardGameGeek to see that the book really existed, because even though I remember it, no-one I know remembers it. It existed, and for a couple years those rules aping actual NFL football were the way everyone played. Blocking refs is the most  thing ever. Also I remember these rules too, wish it was possible to mod them in.
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Sep 24, 2014 16:24
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Blackmage Yapo posted:Weekend sale on Steam, Still not sure I invest in it with BB2 in the works though.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:43
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Corte posted:Still not sure I invest in it with BB2 in the works though. I don't see why not. The only thing confirmed about BB2 is that it won't have as many teams as BB:CE.
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Oct 10, 2014 03:17
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Victor Vermis posted:I don't see why not. The only thing confirmed about BB2 is that it won't have as many teams as BB:CE. I got LE so it's 3 races for $7.99 only one of which looks really appealing to me. Definitely worth it for those looking to pick up the game though!
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Oct 10, 2014 04:00
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Corte posted:I got LE so it's 3 races for $7.99 only one of which looks really appealing to me. Definitely worth it for those looking to pick up the game though! Yeah, as fun as khorn would be I don't wanna give cyanide more money, but it's a solid deal if you don't have it yet
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Oct 10, 2014 06:28
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This trailer for BB2 is actually pretty well done. I know it doesn't show any gameplay, but the trailer itself is fun. I think the new ogre announcer voice isn't as good as the last one, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXTmlWflYJA
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Dec 5, 2014 23:22
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My Saurus (AG 1) took a Broken Neck injury (-1 AG). According to the competition rules, this should keep his AG at 1, so basically just act as a MNG injury (ignoring +AG levelups I'd never take anyway). But on my roster, his AG actually shows as 0. Is this just a display bug there, and it'll show, and act, as a 1 in-game, or is he actually at 0 AG? E.g., will need a 6 (instead of 5 or 6) to pickup a ball in the open?
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Dec 9, 2014 20:59
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It will come back.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:36
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After the end of GNU Order's LP I have been watching cKnoor's games on Youtube to help learn more about my prefered team, Underworld and pick up some more tips before I dive into games with Goons; but jesus christ the inane non-BB comments from his friends are making it a challenge to watch and learn anything  .
Gridlocked fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 14:33
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Gridlocked posted:After the end of GNU Order's LP I have been watching cKnoor's games on Youtube to help learn more about my prefered team, Underworld and pick up some more tips before I dive into games with Goons; but jesus christ the inane non-BB comments from his friends are making it a challenge to watch and learn anything cKnoor's LPs are fantastic but most of his stuff on YouTube is ripped from his weekly streams. He's been doing them for a while now and there's only so much you can say about Blood Bowl I guess. I'd suggest jumping into the IRC channel (#tgbloodbowl on synirc) and talking to goons in there as you go. Playing games is the best way to figure things out, but the IRC channel is where you can get your questions answered right away. Underworld is a terrible team and you'll grow to hate them. Good luck! Victor Vermis fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 14:57
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Victor Vermis posted:cKnoor's LPs are fantastic but most of his stuff on YouTube is ripped from his weekly streams. He's been doing them for a while now and there's only so much you can say about Blood Bowl I guess. But they look so fun with Mutations.
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Dec 22, 2014 02:44
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Chaos, Skaven, and Chaos Dwarves are all top tier teams that get mutations. I think underworld are the only non top tier team with mutations actually. I'd highly suggest playing skaven until you are decent at the game and then play joke teams later. Underworld is not a total joke team, but it's soundly in the bottom half of available teams.
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Dec 22, 2014 02:46
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If you want normal mutation access on everything (except big guys), and players from different rosters, try Chaos Pact on fumbbl.
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Dec 22, 2014 02:52
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Alternatively, play Nurgle and make elf teams miserable by standing near them.
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Dec 22, 2014 02:56
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Sushipants posted:Alternatively, play Nurgle and make elf teams miserable by standing near them. Never play Nurgle. Skaven are pro as hell, though.
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Dec 22, 2014 03:14
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Starting out with an Underworld team as a new player seems pretty gimpy since you get a bunch of dudes without core skills like block and passers with animosity.
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Dec 22, 2014 04:06
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Play with what you want and what you think you might have fun with. If you find you aren't having fun try a different team before totally giving up.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:39
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Play your first five games as Orcs. Then make one team of every faction and play all of them a bunch.
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Dec 22, 2014 06:00
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I'm starting out with Humans. I played someone else with a new Underworld team and I just had no idea what they were even supposed to try to do to win.
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Dec 22, 2014 17:42
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They're meant to do bullshit plays, ignore all your tacklezones and fly when appropriate. They don't really come into their own until they get a bunch of levels for mutations.
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Dec 22, 2014 17:59
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goatface posted:They don't really come into their own.
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Dec 23, 2014 09:22
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Underworld is an underrated team. At low TV your goblins will have decent survivability due to Dodge, and your skaven provide all of the skills necessary to win games (Block, Sure Hands, Pass). Get a few goblins with Two Heads and you'll have an instant mobile screen wherever you want it. Buid your stormvermin into clawpombing jerks, give your throwers Extra Arms, Two Heads, and Big Hand in order to snag balls in multiple tackle zones (or just build them into clawpombing jerks too if you get doubles), build your linerats into ball takers with Horns, Wrestle, Strip Ball, and Tackle. The troll can get Tentacles (or just become a clawpombing jerk). Oh, and you can start the team with four rerolls right off the bat. You will always struggle on defense as Underworld, but I've found that your offense will outscore a lot of teams.
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Dec 25, 2014 17:36
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It's a rare team that doesn't look at least decent once you're assigning 3-4 additional skills to all the players. Unfortunately, with Underworld a lot of your player are going to be dead or crippled before you manage to get them there.
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