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Gort posted:Anyone else have a problem with the entire nature of the team progression and leagues in this game? Some teams start out solid (like say, dwarfs with their block on basically everybody) but don't progress very well, while some teams progress to be horrifically good. The game is balanced and originally intended for league play. As in, you play some number of games, a playoffs, and a championship. That said, "balance" has never, ever been a Games Workshop forte. It's clearly not a major design goal. There are good teams, okay teams, and really loving awful teams. Sometimes the really loving awful teams still win, though, because the dice are very important in blood bowl. Someone mentioned that a natural 1 usually means you fail an action (unless you have a reroll, but you usually can't spend more than one reroll per turn). Well, the reverse is also true: no matter how risky, a natural 6 usually means success. So you occasionally manage a long bomb pass to a zombie, you occasionally scoop the ball up in three tackle zones and then dodge out to score with an ogre, and occasionally your goblin throws a -2 die block and still pows a chaos warrior into the injury box. Even so, beginners are well-advised to pick one of the definitely-good teams: orcs are perhaps best for beginners because they have a variety of skills and positionals, they're good at punching, they can manage an okay passing game in a pinch, and their armor is generally good enough to not be easily crippled. Oh and their linemen are reasonably-costed so you can keep them going in the face of injuries and deaths. Play your very first game ever against the AI, just to get used to the user interface, but after that you will do best being tutored by a friendly goon. Also reading the rulebook is absolutely mandatory: you can just start the game and mash buttons but you will quickly become extremely frustrated due to not understanding why certain things are happening. The goons in the IRC channel really are friendly and helpful and in most time zones you can manage to get a friendly game where someone will talk to you about what you're doing wrong and get you to basic competence. Once you're there, the game is genuinely fun.
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Oct 12, 2012 22:51
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Sorry, I haven't memorized every Goon who ever bought Bloodbowl, and your question was phrased in a way that I'd expect from someone considering a purchase.
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Oct 12, 2012 23:39
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Nobody will answer your question because nobody plays Blitz mode. It is terrible don't play it.
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Oct 26, 2012 23:11
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When are we going to have a new goon tournament? I'm not volunteering to run it, mind you, I just want someone else to do all the work so I can play games.
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Oct 27, 2012 00:48
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My copy of Chaos Edition patched when I logged in today. Didn't see a patch log though. I wonder what they fixed?
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Nov 1, 2012 09:15
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I often write release notes as part of my job. And those right there are some embarrassingly bad release notes. Thanks though. I was hoping they'd taken the opportunity to fix some long-standing serious bugs, but I guess they can't even manage to release a patch without having the patch release number be bugged.
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Nov 1, 2012 09:30
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Also read the manual. There are rules to this boardgame and if you don't know them you will never succeed.
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Nov 13, 2012 20:08
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It may come as a surprise to some people, but this game actually comes with a manual and the manual actually explains the rules of the game pretty well!
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Dec 28, 2012 23:40
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Grim posted:I tried to play a friend in the Cyanide league who only has LE but we couldn't see each-other in the Play! section? I couldn't find reference to this anywhere else on the net but maybe my google-fu is weak? There are several leagues on Cyanide. We'll need more info about exactly what you did, but the basic process is: -start the game, go to Multiplayer, go to Internet leagues, sign on. -Make a team, make sure it has at least 11 players, save it. You can make several teams if you like. -Go to Leagues tab, select a league (they have different rules etc.), pick a team you previously made from the bottom center drop-down, select them and click join to join the league. Your friend does the same. Then, to play, you can click Play, select your team from the list, and Cyanide will (in theory) list every team reasonably near them in TV which you can then challenge. Both of you must be online and (I think) not in a team editor or league editor or anything like that.
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Jan 5, 2013 22:06
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Yes, tell me more about Big Moot Sandwiches, bob. 
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Jan 12, 2013 23:28
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Forums Terrorist posted:They're handy on Skaven since the Rogre lets you spare a lino for punching a hole in the other team's line to give your gunners room to do their thing. Asides from that, I dunno, stunty teams? Rat ogres are not really all that great. They start with frenzy but no block, so if your opponent is awake he'll set them up to frenzy into -2dbs. They have bad armor for a big guy, so they get injured too quickly. Once they're on the ground, with wild animal you need to blitz to have a 5/6 chance of them getting up, which usually means you're not blitzing somewhere useful with your real blitzers. Once they get some skills, they can be nice, and the tail is nice for tying down dodgy linemen like elves, but skaven work fine without a rogre. You can afford a couple spare linerats to fill in for the inevitable casualties and keep you up in numbers in the second half, instead.
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Jan 18, 2013 22:26
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cmndstab posted:(especially since the animations often take up time) The game always pauses the clock during animations, as well as most dialog boxes and popups and stuff.
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Jan 29, 2013 19:34
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I think it kind of depends on your team and its build. It's possible that one each of rear end coaches and cheerleaders can sort of be worth the 20k TV, although only with some teams where 20k isn't too big of a deal.
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Feb 3, 2013 22:28
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Coolguye posted:The fact that you're presuming Cyanide popups wand animations work in a fair, sane manner is very amusing to me. It's not a presumption. I've been playing this game for years! Just look at your turn clock while an animation is running. Go on, try it. Click a guy and tell him to run somewhere and then watch your timer. Same when your opponent is deciding whether to use a skill or not, or when you throw a block and the block animation is going, etc. The turn timer pauses.
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Feb 11, 2013 20:40
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Cyanide crashes on me about 5 to 10 percent of my online games. I'm sure every time it happens against a pubbie, they assume I ragequit.
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Feb 25, 2013 07:38
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I suspect the secret with Khorne is that bloodletters aren't your key players: the pit fighters are. Because you can get them guard and block and they're cheap and can move decently well and your opponents mostly ignore them and they have decent armor. Bloodletters are your ball carriers, because they can't be frenzy-trapped but can still blitz free of a mark by using their horns and then not following up. They're also useful as cage corners for the same reason. And of course, since they have regen as well as access to your apoth, they're easier to rescue when they get injured due to their low AV, but you still wind up with them off the field and that's no good especially if you've concentrated most of your SPPs on them. But by spreading out your skills, you can use pit fighters to score too (and don't mind skilling them up) and that makes it much harder for your opponent to defend against your running game. On defense I like to leave them free to provide assists on frenzies - position them so that the follow-up block is also a 2db for your pit fighters. If a pit fighter rolls skulls, it's not such a big deal because you have more of them. Blitzing is mostly for your bloodthirster, or sometimes a herald (especially when a crowdsurf opportunity presents itself). The heralds should never be used as ball carriers or cage corners on offense because of the frenzy problem, unless you have no other option. On offense I like to use them to present a potential passing play by running them deep. They also threaten frenzy surfs so you can run your cage up a sideline. Use the thirster to break open a zone defense, and if you get too bogged down, blitz a herald free, run him into the end zone, and go for a ag3 pass. Khorne start out difficult if you take too few rerolls, by the way. I think the best starting lineup is four bloodletters, seven pit fighters, three rerolls, and an apothecary. Don't save pit fighters from death, preserve the apothecary for keeping your bloodletters alive, and you'll rapidly get the cash to buy your heralds and eventually a thirster. In the meantime you'll get levels on those pit fighters, which is really important (take guard and then more guard and then more guard, take block when you can) and the bloodletters (take block). To control TV, fire/don't replace pit fighters as they get killed (no regen and you don't save unskilled pit fighters with your apoth). Anyway this is my current feeling. I need to play some more with them but right now they're my favorite team. Once you develop a good feel for setting up frenzies so they don't wind up 1db/-2db traps, the team becomes a hell of a lot of fun, even if they're not among the very best teams at winning games. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 18:21
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Gabriel Pope posted:I think a lot of people underestimate Frenzy, it's a double-edged sword but it's a really really good skill. Seven frenzy players is probably not an optimal number but it's not a pure handicap like a lot of people seem to treat it as. Done right and in optimal conditions, frenzy can nearly double the number of two-die blocks you throw at an opponent. Or more accurately, it converts your pushes into additional 2dbs, so probably more like an increase of 30% or so in the number of block dice you throw. In addition, it scares the poo poo out of your opponent unless he's got plenty of sidestep/stand firm; by eliminating a two-column-wide strip of the pitch on both sides, you force him to cage/run down the middle and that means you can more easily prevent him from advancing a cage at all. Pit fighters have AV8 and you have an apoth. In that respect they're already as good as human linemen. Add in the frenzy and I guess you have to subtract the access to General and they're, in my opinion, still a notch or two better. Sokani posted:This is correct, Pit Fighters have general and passing access. I guess I've been rolling doubles enough that I'd forgotten which of block and guard they had native access to. When you have lots of frenzy, guard is the most important utility skill you can pick up, but block is easily second-important and I'd be happy to run a full roster of five or six pit fighters all of which have nothing but block. Block + frenzy is amazing. It's almost as good as tackle at taking down defenders who only have dodge. And the best thing is getting block on a player with frenzy and juggernaut, because now you can choose when you want to push (to surf) and when you want to take the both down (to just punch the opponent into the dirt). The ideal bloodthirster has block, break tackle, and mighty blow. Amazing. (I'm not a fan of piling on with a player who has Wild Animal.)
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Feb 27, 2013 22:35
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ZigZag, are you playing against farmed teams in Auld World, or are you in Naggaroth? I think this makes a significant difference in how you construct a team for matchmaker.
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Feb 28, 2013 19:31
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ZigZag posted:I play in auld and fol for mm, where a 1600 tv chaos team usually have 4 lvl 7 claw POMB players and a ag4 ball beast, and if this kind of team plays with 3 loner goats for the los you will draw them in mm at around 1400tv. I'm not complaining about since i do it my self with undead in the 1300-1400 tv and field a orc team at 1200 tv with a lvl 6 and a 7 black orc plus a pro tackle POMB blitzer. Alright, so then you an cKnoor are arguing from different assumptions. "What you should take against farmed Auld teams" is a different question than "what you should take for matchmaker games in a less broken format like Nag" which is also different from "what you should take for random pick-up matches on tabletop at your local game store" which is, of course, different from "what you should take for a Giant Goon League team for play against random other GGL goon teams." deathbagel posted:It's really only worth it if you are going from 9 to 10 as the odds to break 9 armor is significantly better than breaking 10 and even then it's only really worth it on certain players. This is nuts. Armor rolls are 2d6, so they statistically are on a curve with the peak at 7 (or 8 with mighty blow). This means the largest gains in value for AV are around 7. E.g., if you raise 7 to 8, you improve your armor roll results by a dramatic amount. Going from 9 to 10 is a far, far smaller improvement. Specifically: The odds of rolling 8 or better on 2d6 are 15/36 or 41.7% of the time. The odds of rolling 9 or better on 2d6 are 10/36 or 27.8% of the time. So, raising AV7 to AV8 is an improvement by about 14%. To break AV9 you have to roll a 10 or better. The odds of rolling 10 or better on 2d6 are 6/36 or 16.7% of the time. The odds of rolling 111 or better on 2d6 are 3/36 or 8.4% of the time. So, raising AV9 to AV10 is an improvement by about 8.3%. Clearly you can see that it's far better to raise AV7 to AV8, than to raise AV9 to AV10. If you're facing lots of mighty blow, this moves up by one notch, but only to the extent you take MB into account. So it's still not as good going AV8 to AV9 even against lots of MB... but both cases beat going from AV9 to AV10 by a country mile. Personally, I might take +AV on a player who has AV7, and also already has some key skills or valuable levelups, and also doesn't have a key skill they desperately need that I should take instead of the +AV. Oh and also is already slow enough that +MV isn't an obviously better choice. That list of positionals is probably pretty short, but I think there's occasional times it makes sense. On an AV9 player, though, the benefit is so tiny I can't see it ever making sense. I also can't think of any AV9 player that I wouldn't be delighted to get +MV on instead. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Mar 1, 2013 |
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Mar 1, 2013 20:47
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trashcangammy posted:How many players are in the goon league? And what's the standard? I'm an "OK" player. I guess against most players I'd win 40%-50% of games. Would I get clowned? If I were to join I'd like to use a team that not many people play. Are there any decent races (i.e non ogre/vamp/halfling etc) the league is short on? There's dozens of goons in the Giant Goon League, of all skill levels from rank beginner to seasoned veterans of a thousand games. Get on IRC, go to #tgbloodbowl on synirc.net, get games with goons, have fun. It is the right thing to do regardless of your experience with Bloodbowl. deathbagel posted:I'm in a different mind here. Sure it "only" improves your overall chance by 8.3%, but it halves the chance from the previous value which makes you twice as difficult (100% improvement) to get an injury roll on as you were previously. Going from AV 7 to 8 is a 14% inprovement overall but really it is only a 66% improvement over the previous value. Anytime I can keep a Khemri mummy from having to roll two injury rolls and take the worst one I will take it. If someone is trying to kill your Khemrian mummies by breaking their armor and they don't have claw, they're playing badly. Your mummies aren't going to score. They should be focusing on your ball carriers. This is generally true of any high-AV player on any team: trees, big guys, etc. Go ahead and take an opportunistic foul on a prone big guy, if you can gang up with a bunch of dudes and/or have good skills for reducing/negating armor; but if you're trying to attrit your opponents' team, you start with his lowest-TV players or his players who are scoring threats (often the same thing). So for your khemri I'd be going after your Blitz-ras and (if you have any) throw-ras, and secondarily your normal skeletons. I'd be doing my best to avoid your mummies with anything that doesn't match them in strength, or have mighty blow/claw/piling on/horns to blitz them/etc. PLUS: +MV on a khemrian mummy is a no-brainer. Adding more mobility to a mummy is amazing. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Mar 2, 2013 |
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Mar 2, 2013 00:08
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deathbagel posted:I'm biased I guess because every time I play Khemri, the most skilled mummy I have always dies from a random failed block. That does happen, yes. All things are dust. Give your tomb guardians skills that will make them better at being tomb guardians, and accept that nothing lasts forever (you're playing blood bowl, this is the game). I mean go ahead and take +AV if it makes you feel better... but we're discussing optimization strategies here, and mathematically it's not an optimal choice.
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Mar 2, 2013 00:46
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So apparently Agent355's been running a new Bloodbowl LP for quite a while now. Nobody told me!
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Mar 5, 2013 09:19
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NutShellBill posted:I started a tabletop league of Blood Bowl at my FNGS, and despite the inherent flaky nature of gamers, it's going fairly well. I'm currently leading the table with my Halfling team, which has prompted some owners to remark that "It's really not worth winning" and raising your team value. I suggest that, first, you shouldn't play a team whose primary method of winning games is fouling the poo poo out of the opposing team until they're so crippled you can actually manage to score plus stealing all their rerolls (which is especially crippling to a newbie player); and, second, as a much more experienced player, you should consider handicapping yourself significantly. I'd say play an elfy team so you can still win but not through fouling/murder, if you really want to win. Otherwise play one of the substandard jokey teams; maybe vampires? There's lots of ways you can handicap yourself.
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Mar 6, 2013 21:00
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IcePhoenix posted:Ghouls are made to die and having less than three on the pitch at one time is just hurting your team. And they don't die any harder than any other AV7 guy. Less so since they start with dodge. They do die more than typical AV7 guys, because typical AV7 guys are on teams with access to an apothecary. Whereas ghouls are on teams with only a necromancer, and they don't have regen. So unless you induced an igor, your ghouls' chances of dying are higher than usual. That said, they move well and have dodge to start. They're useful positionals! The key with ghouls is to get them one levelup (block) and then not any more. They won't bloat your TV too much that way, and with blodge they're harder to get an armor roll against in the first place. This is for a team starting out, say 1000 to maybe 1300 or 1400 TV. After that, you might well drop down to just a couple ghouls and focus on scoring with other players. Personally I quite like ghouls so I ignore the above advice and run them up the SPP charts anyway, but that's not optimal play.
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Mar 8, 2013 21:06
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But it's also a situational thing and I only really do it against teams with a ton of movement and not a lot of bash.
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I prefer to start Khorne with: 4 bloodletter daemons (you need these non-frenzy players and you want them to get skills) 7 Pit fighters (you need skills on your pit fighters to turn them from liabilities into assets) 3 Rerolls (you need rerolls for failed frenzies) 1 Apothecary (to keep your bloodletters alive) That's 1000tv and all your money exactly. Now, it's true the bloodthirster is your key player, and it can hurt taking a few games without him. But if you take a thirster you have to compromise somewhere else, and that probably means the apoth and the rerolls. I think you'll win more games, and keep your important players alive, by waiting until you have the cash for the thirster... which is probably 4 games or so, depending on whether you have to replace a dead bloodletter (don't replace dead pit fighters right away, you can just stick a loner journeyman pit fighter on the LOS and let him take punches).
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Mar 25, 2013 02:45
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GNU Order posted:If I were playing Khorne in a tourney I would probably take this start. I love the Thirster but he's so good as is and all he really needs is MB (and maybe PO). Letters need skills for the team to thrive Funny you should say that, since this is exactly what I've just applied to GB8 with.
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Mar 25, 2013 03:11
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I just want to point out that probably 90% of the times that Cyanide has crashed on me, it's been instantly after some kind of dodge or failed GFI. There's something in the code that is buggy. Also, just watched cKnoor's friday Twitch.tv stream and there were a lot of terrible server connection issues today, so sometimes the servers are just flaky. I've probably crashed out of or disconnected on 20 or more games by now, and not one has been a ragequit. I'm sure a lot of the time it is ragequitting, but if it seems like a particularly mild event that triggers one, odds are good it wasn't a ragequit at all.
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Apr 6, 2013 00:18
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Assuming it's not just use of the Jump Up skill, yeah, there's a weird bug where that seems to be able to happen sometimes. I don't know if it's something deliberately exploitable or not.
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Apr 10, 2013 19:10
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Wow. How much TV did you have tied up in that one player?
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Apr 12, 2013 02:34
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You can make lots and lots of teams. There's no need to restrict yourself to just one.
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Apr 30, 2013 22:53
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Keep in mind the all-skink player is going to get piles of inducement money for most matches. If you allow star players, that's going to do a lot to make up the difference. Also, the strength disadvantage will matter a lot less against really inexperienced players who do not really "get" things like not dodging constantly, how to set up block assists, doing nonrisky things before risky things, paying attention to the turn counter, and that passing is usually really really hard. An experienced vet can reliably beat a rank newbie with any team at all. I would field a team of 11 halflings against a newbie with a 1000tv orc team and still assume I'd win three times out of four. (Especially if I induce a halfling chef!)
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May 14, 2013 06:39
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I think if you're going to play a mixed league with veterans and brand newbies, it's very difficult to handicap the vets in an effective way that also still produces "normal" bloodbowl games which the newbies can learn from. You could give large inducement bonuses to the newbies, restrict cash for the oldbies, restrict teams, etc. but whatever you do is going to mostly be guesswork and it will also tend to be confusing for the newbies. A good way to learn bloodbowl is to be taught, by a veteran, in individual matches with throw-away teams so you can learn the ropes with nothing at stake. The veteran should not try to just crush the newbie, but instead act as a tutor. Once the basics are there, a newbies-only tournament can work, and once everyone has a dozen games or so under their belts, it starts making more sense to run a mixed tournament with some kind of handicap for the long-time vets. But a vets-vs-newbies mixed tournament is goign to come down to the vets winning, unless you so thoroughly cripple their ability to play that it becomes a farce.
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May 14, 2013 20:08
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tater_salad, poke around in your install directories and find the manual for the game. It's got a pretty good introduction to the rules. You might also want to check out cKnoor's introductory videos on YouTube.
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May 16, 2013 05:28
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LibbyM posted:I have a friend who legit never understood blood bowl at all when myself and some of our other friends would talk about it, and really couldn't be bothered to sit there and read a rulebook or have it explained to them, and now knows how to and does play the game solely because he learned watching those cknoor chaos videos. They're great too, but in the last month cKnoor has been posting some "how to play bloodbowl" tutorials specifically aimed at the new player. Start with this one
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May 16, 2013 05:44
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goatface posted:I think it's on the back cover. It is indeed. If you bought Chaos Edition on Steam, open Steam, click Library, select Blood Bowl in the game list, and click Manual on the right. It will open a PDF. Scroll to the last page of the PDF to see the shortcuts. As an aside, the manual is not very long. The stuff starting around page 4 or 5 that explains the basics of the game is useful if you've never played before. goatface posted:So did you surf all 6? 7. I'm not 100% certain that it's possible to surf all seven, but it seems likely to me. Of course you need to get the right dice results too.
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May 20, 2013 00:07
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Yeah, you guys are right of course. Obviously this shows why Khorne is the best team.
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May 20, 2013 06:52
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:And I have no idea why they made Blitz mode (the turn based version) with all of their own special inducement crap like player training and potions when they don't even have GW's own special inducement crap like special play cards. They made Blitz Mode first. That was the game they made, and then they got sued by Games Workshop for ripping them off, but then they settled and the terms of the settlement were surprisingly generous: instead of being obliterated by punitive damages, they got the license to make the proper blood bowl game, with the caveat that they had to implement it according to the actual game rules, e.g., as a turn-based tactical game instead of whatever the gently caress you'd call Blitz Mode. They left in Blitz Mode because it was basically already made. The fact that nobody ever plays it and that the regular game is infinitely more enjoyable seems to still be lost on them completely.
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Jun 7, 2013 05:14
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I think you could solve the issue by adding a field in the matchmaking dialog that lets you set a target range of TV that you want to match each team against. The matchmaker could limit matches to only opponent teams within that range. Of course this could allow you to do something bad like take your 1800TV murder chaos and target 1000tv teams only, but that would only work if someone with a 1000tv team put in that they'd be willing to face teams up to 1800tv. If you sensibly limited the ranges for your teams you'd never face a horrible mismatch. The game already has logic that does this with turn timing, so that you only get a 2minute match if that's in the range you've selected: if you pick 2minutes only and someone else picks 4 minutes only, your two teams cannot be matched regardless. The main drawback would be that goblins and halflings might never get matches, if opponents always set their teams to have the minimum TV be just 100 or so below their current TV, so that might be a terrible flaw in this idea.
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Jun 8, 2013 00:45
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There is an active Goonbowl (8) right now, which is in its playoffs. So look for a new Goonbowl in probably like a month or so. There is an active playerbase; get games by getting on the IRC (#tgbloodbowl on synirc.net) There is an open goon league, Giant Goon League. Put some teams in there and you can play pick-up games with other goons. Arrange games via IRC. If you play in a public league, do it in Naggaroth rather than Auld World. You'll still play against mostly bashy teams, but at least they're not blatantly farmed like in Auld. (Auld allows you to put any team in regardless of TV/match record, so you can farm a team in a private league and then move it to Auld. So people do, a lot. Naggaroth only allows you to enter brand new teams, and has only matchmaking, so you can't pre-farm a team and if you want to play your friends you have to use matchmaker and maybe wind up in a game with someone else, which you can of course cancel, so you can still do it but it's a lot more of a hassle.) A lot of us also check out cKnoor's live stream of bloodbowl on Fridays. Check out his youtube channel for recordings. Streaming is on twitch.tv/cknoor_ (with an underscore). There is also a cknoor community group on Steam, and through that, you can get in on another open league (Mr. Hadwick) and also there are tournaments and stuff. So yeah, Cyanide blood bowl is still very much active and while the game has several irritating bugs that will never be fixed, and it doesn't have the Slann team, and it has some odd limitations regarding certain skills that you can't set to ask, and it is missing most of the star players... it's a lot more attractive than fumbbl and lots of us play it anyway for whatever reason.
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Jul 15, 2013 20:23
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Orcs. The general advice is, orks or humans. Actually make both (but orcs are a little easier). Both of these teams are solid, they start with a good range of positional players with decent stats, are not overly fragile (orcs are more durable than humans), and do not have a weird "gimmick" that will teach you bad habits. Orcs are a little more bashy, and humans are a little more dodge-and-passy (also known as "elfy"). After you've played a few games with each team, you can decide if you prefer bashy play or elfy play, and from there, you can start trying out some of the other teams and have a better idea of how to be successful with them. Also, play maybe two or three games against the AI, just to learn the controls (and read the manual, it is actually useful!) but after that, you need to play humans. Find a goon for some babby-games and don't worry about losing. If you keep playing the AI, you will learn terrible habits because it is terrible and will do idiotic things you should not emulate and it will reward you for doing bad things that you shouldn't do. Another good place to start is bloodbowl LPs. I recommend cKnoor's bloodbowl LP, which is in the archive, and also all his videos are on youtube.
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Jul 17, 2013 23:46
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