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OneThousandMonkeys posted:It should be a single contrail since it makes no sense for it to come out anywhere but his butt. Maybe Kryptonians have extra bits of anatomy.
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Dec 16, 2012 08:37
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Kryptonians have a bifurcated anus.
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Dec 16, 2012 09:28
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Well enough of that, I don't want my thread gassed. Let's talk about the costume, are we enraged by the lack of trunks?
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Dec 16, 2012 09:34
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Rhyno posted:Well enough of that, I don't want my thread gassed. Yes, we are. I wouldn't say enraged, but they should have given him a larger belt at least. Also I just realized the dual contrails are likely a call back to "it's a bird, no it's a plane."
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Dec 16, 2012 10:18
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No one's talking about Michael Shannon as Zod? That's a really interesting casting choice, and I'm eager to see how he pulls it off. He's an actor that does "slowly simmering rage" really well and I think we're going to get something really special out of him that's going to be completely distinct from Terrance Stamp.
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Dec 16, 2012 12:58
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With the way parents or parental figures for superheroes usually fare it's going to be extremely weird for me to see Kevin Costner's character live through the movie. Is Superman the only character who gets to have living (foster) parents?
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Dec 16, 2012 13:12
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Grendels Dad posted:With the way parents or parental figures for superheroes usually fare it's going to be extremely weird for me to see Kevin Costner's character live through the movie. Is Superman the only character who gets to have living (foster) parents?
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Dec 16, 2012 13:49
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Bummer. Having kids is the kiss of death in comic books.
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Dec 16, 2012 13:54
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Grendels Dad posted:With the way parents or parental figures for superheroes usually fare it's going to be extremely weird for me to see Kevin Costner's character live through the movie. Is Superman the only character who gets to have living (foster) parents? Thor 
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Dec 16, 2012 14:31
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I'd say Thor's dad is a special case because he's a narcoleptic and sleep and death are brothers.
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Dec 16, 2012 14:41
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Retromancer posted:No one's talking about Michael Shannon as Zod? That's a really interesting casting choice, and I'm eager to see how he pulls it off. He's an actor that does "slowly simmering rage" really well and I think we're going to get something really special out of him that's going to be completely distinct from Terrance Stamp.
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Dec 16, 2012 15:31
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I hate Superman. His powers are totally infinite and therefore totally dumb, and he can only be hurt by giant Macguffins. He has so many god-like powers that it almost takes on a flippant carelessness. He's not even the most powerful character in the JLA (The Flash and Martian Manhunter are, with Green Lantern being potentially more powerful). Magic works on him just as well as it works on anyone else - if Harry Potter turned him into a rabbit, he would be turned into a rabbit. And he's a gnat compared to someone like Darkseid or Mxy. And most of the villain schemes he goes against handcuff him in different ways (ie. not being able to attack openly or with his fists) He's only "infinitely powerful" in the movies, and that's because they're using a stupid version of Lex or fake Lex as villains in every single one of them, and use the old Silver Age version that can invent powers on the fly as opposed to having limits.
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Dec 16, 2012 15:53
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The new DC Superman isn't really all that powerful anyways. One of the first issues has him getting slammed and hurt by a literal speeding train. I like that Superman. He's arrogant, and makes a lot of mistakes because he is young. The issues he cares about are the poor being mistreated and corrupt officials taking advantage of the weak. I know we aren't going to get this Superman in the movie, but the people complaining about him being "too powerful" should check 'em out. I noticed the whole Jesus vibe immediately. I kinda like it. Superman and superheroes in general are the closest thing we have to Gods in modern times, and our reverence and worship of them always interested me.
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Dec 16, 2012 16:22
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Darko posted:He's not even the most powerful character in the JLA (The Flash and Martian Manhunter are, with Green Lantern being potentially more powerful). Magic works on him just as well as it works on anyone else - if Harry Potter turned him into a rabbit, he would be turned into a rabbit. And he's a gnat compared to someone like Darkseid or Mxy. And most of the villain schemes he goes against handcuff him in different ways (ie. not being able to attack openly or with his fists) He's only "infinitely powerful" in the movies, and that's because they're using a stupid version of Lex or fake Lex as villains in every single one of them, and use the old Silver Age version that can invent powers on the fly as opposed to having limits. I think this is one of my main issues with Returns--Zod and Lex made sense as villains for the Donner movies because the visual limitations of 70s-era film making would have made an attempt at Darksied laughable. Then we finally get a 21st century Supes and it's...Luthor again??? I honestly think Smallville got more creative at points with its visuals than Returns, which is why it was such a disappointment to me. As a result of this, everyone who has only been exposed to the movie Supes (and let's face it, the vast majority of people don't read comics) has this really weird, totally off-the-mark interpretation of what Superman is supposed to be. If there's one thing I can trust Snyder to do, it's to provide interesting and thrilling visuals, so hopefully after a really great Michael Shannon Zod we get a Doomsday/Luthor or Darksied movie.
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Dec 16, 2012 16:23
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Stick Figure Mafia posted:The new DC Superman isn't really all that powerful anyways. In a recent issue (not Action, which you're referring to, which Morrison writes, but Superman, written by Lobdell, I think), he had him lifting weight equivalent to the planet without getting tired for a long time, which is far more powerful than he was before the reboot, so...welp 
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Dec 16, 2012 16:28
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Duece Ex Machina posted:I think this is one of my main issues with Returns--Zod and Lex made sense as villains for the Donner movies because the visual limitations of 70s-era film making would have made an attempt at Darksied laughable. Then we finally get a 21st century Supes and it's...Luthor again??? And, as brought up by other people multiple times in this thread - it's the wrong Luthor. Instead of the modern Luthor we get Snidely Whiplash Luthor...again. I mean, one of the biggest themes in Superman Returns was if Superman was needed in the current world - and you don't use the version of Luthor that pretty much only exists to prove that the world does not need Superman with him around? What the hell?
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Dec 16, 2012 16:32
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Darko posted:He's not even the most powerful character in the JLA (The Flash and Martian Manhunter are, with Green Lantern being potentially more powerful). Magic works on him just as well as it works on anyone else - if Harry Potter turned him into a rabbit, he would be turned into a rabbit. And he's a gnat compared to someone like Darkseid or Mxy. And most of the villain schemes he goes against handcuff him in different ways (ie. not being able to attack openly or with his fists) He's only "infinitely powerful" in the movies, and that's because they're using a stupid version of Lex or fake Lex as villains in every single one of them, and use the old Silver Age version that can invent powers on the fly as opposed to having limits. Sure, but this isn't a movie about the JLA, Mxy, or Darkseid. From what we are being shown and told, this is Same Old Suffering Superman. I'm not arguing one could tell good stories with Superman. However, if this movie doesn't do well, Superman is probably dead as a movie property.
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Dec 16, 2012 16:34
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Sure, but this isn't a movie about the JLA, Mxy, or Darkseid. From what we are being shown and told, this is Same Old Suffering Superman. Only until after Avengers II makes a bazillion dollars. I can't imagine the amount of money Man of Steel would have to lose WB that they wouldn't immediately try to fall back on the franchise when they see (again) how much money can be made with similar properties. I guess it would have to do as badly as Green Lantern. Oh.
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Dec 16, 2012 16:42
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Sure, but this isn't a movie about the JLA, Mxy, or Darkseid. From what we are being shown and told, this is Same Old Suffering Superman. I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. This seems like this is a Superman that is trying to find his place in the world because he honestly doesn't know what to do. He tries to become a symbol for hope and help people, but is met with cynicism and distrust due to being an alien. Zod being in it and the destruction makes it seem as if it will have Zod come to realize people's worst fears about him. I can't think of any film or animated version of Superman that has had that arc. Smallville tried to, but it was dumb. Reeve Superman was immediately accepted. His dad told him that with great power comes great responsibility or something, he went to the Arctic for a while, came to Metropolis and rescued Lois and everyone immediately loved him. His only struggle was using his powers selfishly to "alter human events" (which was really kind of weak as it wasn't stressed beforehand, and saving a bunch of lives via time travel vs. doing so with his other powers didn't seem like much difference). Superman Returns Sups was also accepted. He was more worried about Lois moving on than anything as opposed to the world. He was mopy and emo because he came back and expected everything to be the same with Lois - the actual world was fine with him. This movie looks entirely different. It's basically him world traveling a la Bruce in Begins, attempting to find a focus, finding it, and then having to prove himself (from the trailers/Birthright), which hasn't been done before. He's basically your 18-22 year old that is trying to figure out where they're going to go with their lives, only instead of college/job, it's what to do with godlike powers. That's only been touched on in Smallville, really.
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Dec 16, 2012 16:45
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Grendels Dad posted:Only until after Avengers II makes a bazillion dollars. I can't imagine the amount of money Man of Steel would have to lose WB that they wouldn't immediately try to fall back on the franchise when they see (again) how much money can be made with similar properties. They seem to be loving around. They could've made a whole Flash trilogy by now, it's the easiest thing to do. He's a family man, base an arc around that. He's got cool villains that would work well in films. But instead we get Jonah Hex and a somehow unprofitable version of Green Lantern. Meanwhile Marvel is practically saturating the market with movies based on their properties and every single one makes good money.
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Dec 16, 2012 17:19
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Rhyno posted:Well enough of that, I don't want my thread gassed. Not terribly. A characters costume is one of the less important things as far as I'm concerned. The trunks are seen as iconic now because the characters been around for so long, but even if you go on about color balance and all that its still a slightly altered wrestler/acrobat outfit from the 30's. If they are trying to make him appear more alien/sleek/futuristic then I'd say the current costume fits the bill better.
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Dec 16, 2012 17:35
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Bob Quixote posted:Not terribly. A characters costume is one of the less important things as far as I'm concerned. The trunks are kind of a non issue, anyway, since they took his trunks out in the comics as well: 
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Dec 16, 2012 17:42
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I'd like a Superman movie to actually explore the more alien aspects of the character. The fact that there's a literal God-figure walking/flying around. He should be awe-inspiring, but I think him being a paragon of human thought/compassion kind of takes away from that. I have no idea how many stories there are that deal with how normal people view Superman, but I feel like one of the most compelling theoretical concepts surrounding the character is that it would actually be loving terrifying to have someone like this existing in the real world. I think it's one of the most interesting themes in superhero fiction in general. It looks like they'll touch on this a bit with the whole military motif, but I don't get the sense that it's outright fear as much as just mistrust and people being people and he'll end up convincing everyone in the end because he's Lawful Good. I guess I'm basically saying that I'd to see him portrayed through the lens of someone like Dr. Manhattan - someone with the capability to change everyhing about the world and exploring how this would actually affect society. I don't know if that's completely contrary to the comics or what, but I definitely feel like that would be a really ballsy and fascinating direction. Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Dec 16, 2012 |
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Dec 16, 2012 17:52
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I think it would be awesome if this was followed up with a Wonder Woman film, then, Justice League, which seems like it could happen since The Avengers was so successful. 
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Dec 16, 2012 17:56
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Hakkesshu posted:I'd like a Superman movie to actually explore the more alien aspects of the character. The fact that there's a literal God-figure walking/flying around. He should be awe-inspiring, but I think him being a paragon of human thought/compassion kind of takes away from that. But writing a Superman who doesn't fight villains and has to find a use for his god-like powers in a "real world" is just too hard for the poor dears writing funnybooks. Superhero comic books must have people punching something. Stories need conflict! Literal conflict, with punching!
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Dec 16, 2012 19:54
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Darko posted:That's only been touched on in Smallville, really. There's only one thing I want extracted and saved from Smallville, really, and that's Lex Luthor as a (quasi-)protagonist.
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Dec 16, 2012 20:09
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Hakkesshu posted:I have no idea how many stories there are that deal with how normal people view Superman, but I feel like one of the most compelling theoretical concepts surrounding the character is that it would actually be loving terrifying to have someone like this existing in the real world. I think it's one of the most interesting themes in superhero fiction in general. It looks like they'll touch on this a bit with the whole military motif, but I don't get the sense that it's outright fear as much as just mistrust and people being people and he'll end up convincing everyone in the end because he's Lawful Good. Isn't that basically Lex Luthor's take on it all? I think I remember reading a comic where he thinks that the existence of Superman is a terrifying thing because he's got the powers of a god, and everyone just automatically accepts that he is using his powers only for good and can do no wrong, and nobody sees how dangerous this can be except Lex Luthor, the only sane man in all the world.
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Dec 16, 2012 20:12
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Rhyno posted:Well enough of that, I don't want my thread gassed. Its a bummer but not really important. Somehow it bums me that people think the costume looks better without the trunks. Its like, NOW it doesnt look silly at all? It feels like years from now we'll go "oh right, remember that 4 years when Superman didnt have his trunks? It was back when we put crazy textures and seams on every superhero outfit!" But to complain about it anymore would be silly.
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Dec 16, 2012 20:13
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AnonSpore posted:Isn't that basically Lex Luthor's take on it all? I think I remember reading a comic where he thinks that the existence of Superman is a terrifying thing because he's got the powers of a god, and everyone just automatically accepts that he is using his powers only for good and can do no wrong, and nobody sees how dangerous this can be except Lex Luthor, the only sane man in all the world. The Lex Luthor Man Of Steel miniseries talks about that. He compares Superman to a sentient hurricane and we only have his word that he's well-behaved.
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Dec 16, 2012 20:14
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Yannick_B posted:The Lex Luthor Man Of Steel miniseries talks about that. He compares Superman to a sentient hurricane and we only have his word that he's well-behaved. That version of Lex Luthor is awesome. He's also the perfert foil because he can't understand why someone with the power of a god only does good deeds. He is a man who wants to be a god while Superman is a god who wants to be a man. A well written Lex Luthor is an awesome villain. It's just too bad no one really gets his character either. The best Lex Luthor from the comics is the one from Red Son. He's morally grey, a genius, wants to prove his superiority and ultimately defeats Superman with words. That's the Lex I would like to see if they bring him in.
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Dec 16, 2012 20:46
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So where does Lois and Clark fit under all of this? I liked that show when I was a kid.
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Dec 16, 2012 21:24
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PaganGoatPants posted:So where does Lois and Clark fit under all of this? I liked that show when I was a kid. Best that we not speak of it. It's that bad.
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Dec 16, 2012 21:25
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Rhyno posted:Best that we not speak of it. It's that bad. I was a kid noooo 
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Dec 16, 2012 21:57
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casa de mi padre posted:In some stories his farm-dad is dead. That happened in the original Donner movie, and I really liked it: Superman may be the most powerful being on the planet, but even he can't stop his adoptive father of keeling over from a heart attack.
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Dec 16, 2012 22:52
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Darko posted:The trunks are kind of a non issue, anyway, since they took his trunks out in the comics as well: At first I hated this costume but at least there can be an in-universe explanation for how Superman's clothes aren't incinerated by a death ray two seconds into any fight he has.
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Dec 16, 2012 23:10
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:At first I hated this costume but at least there can be an in-universe explanation for how Superman's clothes aren't incinerated by a death ray two seconds into any fight he has. The whole he has an aura thing didn't satisfy?
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Dec 16, 2012 23:22
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I support any costume that actually looks like it's made out of something, instead of artists just drawing naked people and coloring in a costume. While I think the Man of Steel costume may be going a little too far, at least it's visually interesting and doesn't look like a high-end Halloween costume. One of my favorite things about Amazing Spider-Man was the costume. It just feels more real.
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Dec 16, 2012 23:29
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Rhyno posted:Well enough of that, I don't want my thread gassed. Actually, let's go back there just to get things straight: Man of Steel Superman doesn't have contrails, that's what happens when hot engine exhaust cools rapidly in the upper atmosphere and causes water vapor to condense. What he actually displays are a form of wingtip vortices, probably caused by the curved shape of his outstretched boots producing similar turbulence to the edge of an airplane wing. Yes, I thought about this a lot and my neckbeard is as glorious as you can imagine. As for the trunks, "enraged" is pushing it a little but it's kinda like, what, that's the part of a superhero costume that breaks the camel's back for people? If you take a step back and look at it as if the concept of superheroes never existed you'll probably realize that everything about them is garish and ridiculous. And that's what makes superheroes great, just disengage your gritty cynical realism and let the absurdity of the fantastic wash over you. It should be a little outrageous, it should be a little unreal, it should feel like a window into another world. A world where you believe a man can fly, and people in bright primary colors with flowing capes, huge chest emblems and color-coordinated trunks/gloves/boots/masks are a fact of life.
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Dec 16, 2012 23:51
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Superman provides an excellent vehicle to tell a story about hope, wonder and romance versus cynicism. I hope that since he doesn't appear in this film at all, they've taken Lex Luthor's suspicion of Superman's motives and transferred it to everyone else. Ultimately, if a figure like Superman showed up in the (or a) real world, no one would believe him.
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Dec 16, 2012 23:54
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I'm really, really, really excited for this movie. I drat well hope Snyder approaches the character with a certain degree of reverence, because that's what Superman deserves--and not because he's stronger or faster than the rest of the human race by entire magnitudes, but because he's the very image of love without pride or barriers. I think the defining misconception people have about Superman is the same as Lex's--he's unbelievable because he transcends the limits of humanity--when, really, in my opinion it's always been the opposite: he represents the best things people are ideally completely capable of, i.e. relentless compassion. Also, I love how different Henry Cavill looks as scrubby, homeless Clark Kent and clean, square-jawed Superman. It's a wonderful visual disparity. I AM SO EXCITED.
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Dec 16, 2012 23:58
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