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Viscardus
Jun 1, 2011

Thus equipped by fortune, physique, and character, he was naturally indomitable, and subordinate to no one in the world.




Hello and welcome to Kingdom in the Sun.

So whatís this?

This is a Paradox Mega-LP, meaning it is going to cover two or more of Paradox Interactive's grand strategy games. If youíre not already familiar with the proud tradition of Paradox LPs, there are plenty of great examples. Iíd recommend Wizís Hohenzollern and Azerbaijan LPs in particular, as they are the main inspiration for this one. If you want to learn more about Paradox games in general, thereís also the Paradox Mega-Thread.

Iím getting a sudden sense of dťjŗ vuÖ

Thatís probably because I already started this LP once before. Unfortunately, due to some poor updating decisions, the save became unplayable and the LP had to end. I resolved to restart the LP eventually, and thatís exactly what Iím doing now, although it took me a lot longer than originally intended.

You might even notice that some of the writing, at least at the very beginning, is copied from the old LP. This will disappear pretty quickly, however, as things diverge.

How will this be different from other Paradox Mega-LPs/CK2 LPs?

Well, it's the first Mega-LP on Something Awful to start with Crusader Kings II, for starters. As the newest Paradox game, CK2 is in a certain sense the star of show, and since it's also the first game we'll be playing, it's the one I'm going to talk about most for now.

Like most Mega-LPs, this LP is going to focus on the historical narrative that can develop in Crusader Kings II (and Paradox games in general) rather than on gameplay mechanics. For a more mechanical take on Crusader Kings II, Iíd recommend Kerschís LP (although it may be a little outdated by now). Thereís also the CK2 Thread.

Iíll also be making significant modifications to the base game, mainly in the form of the excellent CK2 Plus mod, made by the aforementioned Wiz and incorporating many improvements created by not only by Wiz but other talented modders as well (and occasionally untalented modders like myself). Wiz has graciously given me permission to use his mod for this LP.

Those who have played CK2 Plus might notice a few changes right off the bat, including a slightly altered starting situation in Southern Italy. I have changed a few things about the starting scenario to better simulate, in my estimation, the historical situation in Southern Italy at the time, as well as make the start more interesting.

What about audience participation?

There will be audience participation, but Iím not planning on having any direct voting to begin with. I do encourage informal audience participation, however, and the tenor of discussion in the thread is likely to influence my decisions in-game. As the LP goes on, audience participation will get a little more official (if you were around for the last LP, I plan to introduce the Curia Regis at around the same point in the story).

Which other Paradox games will be played?

My current plan is to continue the game into EU3 for sure. After that, Iím not sure, and it largely depends on whether thereís a mod I like for Victoria 2 (currently thereís not, but that could change) and how difficult it is for me to convert the save.

Who are we playing as?

Weíre going to be starting off as Robert ďGuiscardĒ díHauteville, the greatest of the Norman conquerors of Sicily and the Mezzogiorno. Robert is a favourite historical figure of mine (heís the guy pictured in my avatar), and I happen to know a fair bit about Norman Sicily, which will hopefully help me write the narrative. Most importantly, the Duchy of Apulia is one of the more interesting and enjoyable starts in the game.



Chapter One: Prologue (1066)
Chapter Two: Palermo (1067-68)
Chapter Three: Jewel of the Mediterranean (1069-1074)
Chapter Four: Coronation (1075-1084)
Chapter Five: Consolidation (1085-1086)
Chapter Six: Succession (1087-1094)
Chapter Seven: The Kingdom of God (1095-1099)
State of the World (1100)
Chapter Eight: Bohemond the Great (1100-1109)
Chapter Nine: The Valencian Crusade (1110-1117)
Chapter Ten: Arish and Rafah (1118-1122)
Chapter Eleven: The Young King (1123-1127)
Chapter Twelve: The Fall of Cairo (1128-1136)
Chapter Thirteen: Man of Peace (1137-1149)
State of the World (1150)
Chapter Fourteen: Tunis (1150-1159)
Chapter Fifteen: Daughters-in-Law (1160-1169)
Chapter Sixteen: The Three Williams (1170-1175)
Chapter Seventeen: The King's Justice (1176-1185)
Chapter Eighteen: Scholar and Adulterer (1186-1199)
State of the World (1200)
Chapter Nineteen: La Lingua Siciliana (1200-1207)
Chapter Twenty: Out of the Orient (1208-1219)
Chapter Twenty-One: Primogeniture (1220-1224)
Chapter Twenty-Two: Behind Every Great Man (1225-1233)
Chapter Twenty-Three: Imperium (1234-1236)
Chapter Twenty-Four: No Peace for the Wicked (1237-1239)
Chapter Twenty-Five: Mare Catholicam (1240-1249)
State of the World (1250)
Chapter Twenty-Six: The Partition (1250-1253)
Chapter Twenty-Seven: Romance of the Three Kingdoms (1254-1263)
Chapter Twenty-Eight: The Queens of Sicily (1264-1276)
Chapter Twenty-Nine: Mothers and Daughters (1277-1285)
Chapter Thirty: Betrayal (1286-1299)
State of the World (1300)
Chapter Thirty-One: Golden Years (1300-1326)
Chapter Thirty-Two: A Kingdom Restored (1327-1336)
Chapter Thirthy-Three: The Heretic Emperor (1337-1349)
State of the World (1350)
Chapter Thirty-Four: The Iron Crown (1350-1354)
Chapter Thirty-Five: The Alpine Wars (1355-1366)
Chapter Thirty-Six: Roberto's Ambition (1367-1372)
Chapter Thirty-Seven: Fragmentation (1373-1380)
Chapter Thirty-Eight: Maidar Khan (1381-1399)
State of the World (1400)
Chapter Thirty-Nine: The Calm (1400-1416)
Chapter Forty: The Storm (1417-1418)
Chapter Forty-One: The Maelstrom (1419-1420)
Chapter Forty-Two: The Meaning of Death (1421-1430)
Chapter Forty-Three: The Last Crusade (1431-1438)
Chapter Forty-Four: On The Brink (1439)
Chapter Forty-Five: The Two Crowns (1440-1442)
State of the World (1442)

Viscardus fucked around with this message at Jan 9, 2014 around 09:33

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Viscardus
Jun 1, 2011

Thus equipped by fortune, physique, and character, he was naturally indomitable, and subordinate to no one in the world.


Chapter One: Prologue (1066)

In 1016, Norman pilgrims returning from Jerusalem visited the shrine to the Archangel Michael at Monte Gargano in Apulia, where they were met with an appeal by Melus of Bari, a Lombard nobleman who desired to expel the Byzantine Empire from the Mezzogiorno. Within a year, Norman knights were making their way to Southern Italy.

The Normans could boast an unusual history, having descended from the Vikings who first pillaged the northern coast of France, then began to settle and intermarry with the locals, eventually adopting their own version of French culture. Many sons of Normandy kept the adventurous, martial hearts of their Viking ancestors, however, and the lure of potential fortune in the south was too much for many landless second sons to resist.

Now, 50 years later, the Normans are the pre-eminent power in Southern Italy, succeeding where Melus and the Lombards failed. From humble origins as mercenaries and highwaymen, they have succeeded in driving out the Byzantines and consolidating their power. Most of them are led by Robert díHauteville, known as ďGuiscardĒ, recently invested by Pope Nicholas II with the titles of Duke of Apulia and Calabria.

Robert has also been given a papal endorsement to invade the island of Sicily, long held by Muslim Arabs and harbour to countless pirates who plague the coasts of Italy. Already the city of Messina has been conquered, but the first expedition to capture Palermo ended poorly, temporarily halting the islandís conquest.

Since then, Robert has been occupied with internal affairs, particularly the ongoing revolt of two of his vassals.



To the east, the Byzantines would no doubt like to reclaim Southern Italy, but they have far greater problems on their hands at the moment. The Seljuk Turks, led by the great Alp Arslan, have launched an invasion of Anatolia, and the weak Basileus looks to be nearly powerless to resist.





To the west, another conflict between Christians and Muslims simmers rather than rages, with the Christian kingdoms of Spain, most prominently those of the sons of Fernando the Great, are poised against the Muslim taifas left after the collapse of the Umayyad Caliphate. Across the strait of Gibraltar, a threat to both of them lurks in the form of the Almoravid Berbers.



To the north, the young King of the Germans, not yet crowned Holy Roman Emperor by the Pope, has just come of age. His realm is peaceful for now, but discontent lurks below the surface, and it may not be long before he comes into conflict with the powerful reformist faction of the papacy that has already begun attempts to take power out of the Emperorís hands. The reformers have already declared that the election of the Pope is a matter for the Church alone, removing the Emperorís influence over the Churchís most important post. Now they wish to go further and remove his control over ecclesiastic investiture even in his own lands.




To the northwest, England is being invaded by two forces at once: one led by William the Bastard, Duke of Normandy, and the other by Harald HŚrdrŚde, King of Norway, both men claiming that the throne of England is rightfully theirs. The Saxon King Harold Godwinson desperately attempts to defend his kingdom, knowing that the future of England hangs in the balance.






To the northeast, the Rurikovich Princes of Russia squabble, bordered on one side by the Baltic and Finnish pagans, and on the other by the mighty Cuman Khanate.



Few of these events matter to Duke Robert Guiscard at the moment, however.

Robert, like many of the Normans who made their name fighting in the Mezzogiorno, has relatively humble origins, being the sixth son of an undistinguished minor lord in Normandy, Tancred díHauteville, said to be descended from one Hiallt, a Norseman from whom the name of the village of Hauteville is supposedly derived. Hiallt is in turn said to have been descended from the legendary hero Ogier the Dane and King Godfrey of Denmark, but the evidence for such legends is scant at best.

What is undisputable, though, is the energy, cunning, and martial skill Robert has so far displayed in his rise to power. Having been preceded by his elder brothers William, Drogo, and Humphrey, each Count of Apulia in turn, he inherited the county Ė over Humphreyís young son Ė in 1057 after having demonstrated his ability on countless previous occasions, including in the conquest of Calabria and at the Battle of Civitate, where Humphrey, Robert, and Richard Drengot defeated the forces of Pope Leo IX and secured the future of the Norman states in Southern Italy.



Of no small importance herself is Robertís Lombard wife Sigelgaita, the daughter of the late Prince Guaimar IV of Salerno, a Norman ally, and sister of the current Prince of Salerno.



Sigelgaita is Robertís second wife, however, his first marriage having been annulled in order to make the more politically useful match with Sigelgaita. Robertís eldest son Bohemond was by his first wife Alberada. Still a child, Bohemond has already begun to display both the physical and mental gifts of his father.



Robertís other two sons, Roger and Guy, are by Sigelgaita. Both are too young to assess just yet, but Roger has an unfortunate physical deformity that has left him slightly hunchbacked.




Most prominent among Robertís vassals is his younger brother Roger, lord of Reggio and Messina. Nearly as capable as Robert himself, Roger is his brotherís right hand, despite the many conflicts, violent and otherwise, the two brothers have found themselves in over the years.



At the moment, however, the vassals occupying Robertís attention are his nephews Abelard of Taranto and Geoffroy de Conversano. Abelard, the son of Robertís brother Humphrey, has long resented Robert for what he considers the theft of his birthright. Shortly after the failed expedition to Sicily had set out, Abelard and his cousin Geoffroy started a revolt on the mainland, which Robert has been trying to crush since his return.




Also prominent among Robertís vassals are Robert of Foggia, son of Robertís older brother Geoffrey, and Geoffroy di Lecce, another Norman unrelated to the díHautevilles.




Those Normans in Southern Italy not loyal to Robert are under the rule of Richard Drengot, Count of Capua, friend and brother-in-law (through Robertís sister) of Robert.



To his south is Naples, the last remnant of Greek power in Italy, ruled by Sergios Spartenos.



Further down the coast is Salerno, ruled by Sigelgaitaís brother Gisulf, a thoroughly reprehensible man despised by nearly everyone, including Robert. Only familial ties have so far prevented Robert from marching into Salerno and expelling his brother-in-law, though this has as much to do with Robertís desire for the city of Salerno as anything.



Finally, Landolf di Capua attempts to rule Benevento, nominally as a Papal vassal, but his rule is consistently undermined by the Normans, and few think his reign will be long.



Not to be forgotten is the current Pope, Alexander II, successor to Nicholas II. Currently he is friendly toward Robert and the Normans, especially due to his need for Norman support in case of further conflict with the Holy Roman Empire. Already he has been forced to defend his papacy against the German-sponsored antipope Honorius II.



Robertís current council is a rather informal collection of some of his most capable vassals, including all three of his major vassals not currently in revolt.



Robert is still in good health currently, but should he die, his heir at the moment would be his son Bohemond. Norman succession in Southern Italy is loose, though (as demonstrated by Robertís succession to the County of Apulia), and the principle of primogeniture is not as strictly followed as it is in much of Europe. Rather, the most powerful son is most likely to inherit, rather than the eldest. This also means that succession wars are more likely than not.

At the moment, though, Robertís sons are all children. Further complicating things is the fact that Bohemond could technically be considered a bastard, a position Robertís wife Sigelgaita would no doubt like to take for the sake of her sons.



His levies depleted by the ongoing revolt, Robert can call on around 2,700 men, though this should be more than enough to put down the rebellion.



The first move in Robertís renewed effort to end the revolt is to split his forces in two. The first army, led by Robert himself, marches on Geoffroyís lands from the north.



The second, led by his brother Roger, marches toward Abelardís lands from the south.



While Robert besieges Conversano, Roger meets its owner, Count Geoffroy, in battle.



Rogerís numerical advantage is overwhelming, and Geoffroy himself is killed in the rout.



Meanwhile, Conversano itself falls to Robert, leaving Geoffroyís young son under his control and effectively eliminating half of the revoltís strength.



Next, Robert marches to Lecce, where Abelardís army has retreated. The young rebel has no choice but to fight, despite being heavily outnumbered.



As expected, Robert soundly defeats his nephewís army, and the revolt is ended.



Abelard has no choice but to surrender himself to Robert and hope for mercy.



Fortunately for him, the Duke is known for his lenient attitude toward rebellious vassals, and Abelard is released with little more than a renewed oath of loyalty and renunciation of his claims on Robertís titles.



The Norman realm is once again united, and Robertís eyes turn again to the island of Sicily as he plans a summer campaign.

Serpentis
May 31, 2011

Well, if I really HAVE to shoot you in the bollocks to shut you up, then I guess I'll need to, post-haste, for everyone else's sake.


Great to see this back! Now get back to smiting those schism-loving Greeks like the noble's and madmen's Curia people wanted!

EasternBronze
Jul 19, 2011


Also happy to see this finally making its way back to the forum. Are we getting the Curia back by any chance?

Viscardus
Jun 1, 2011

Thus equipped by fortune, physique, and character, he was naturally indomitable, and subordinate to no one in the world.


EasternBronze posted:

Also happy to see this finally making its way back to the forum. Are we getting the Curia back by any chance?

Yes, the Curia Regis will probably make its return around the same time as it was introduced last time (i.e. when Robert dies), barring the relatively unlikely event of something going drastically differently story-wise.

Other than that, though, I'm going to try to keep everything mostly uninfluenced by the events of the previous thread. Ultimately things are going to get boring if I try too hard to follow what happened last time (never mind that the game is unlikely to cooperate with such a plan anyway).

The Narrator
Aug 11, 2011



Good to see this LP rise from the ashes, Viscardus. I look forward to seeing the next mega-LP after Azerbaijan had to be cut short.

Are you still using CK2+ (I assume the latest build)? And the Better Looking Characters mod, if I'm not mistaken?

edit: I'm dumb and don't read OPs.

Viscardus
Jun 1, 2011

Thus equipped by fortune, physique, and character, he was naturally indomitable, and subordinate to no one in the world.


The Narrator posted:

Are you still using CK2+ (I assume the latest build)? And the Better Looking Characters mod, if I'm not mistaken?

I am actually using the last build of CK2+ prior to The Republic and the accompanying patch. This is in part because I don't want to deal with as-yet-unfixed bugs and such in The Republic and partly to remove the temptation of updating at all (because that is what killed the last LP and I am still sort of upset with myself for letting that happen). Given that The Republic and its patch don't add a huge amount of content if you're not actually playing as a republic, I didn't feel like this was a major sacrifice.

And yes, I am also using Better Looking Characters. A note to anyone else wanting to use it with CK2+: the compatibility mod available on the Paradox forums is woefully incomplete and buggy. I basically had to redo it all from scratch.

Crameltonian
Mar 27, 2010


Well I've already learned something from this LP. I'd always assumed Bohemond actually was a bastard but nope, looks like he got screwed over by the Wicked Stepmother.

Didn't see the first version of those but I need a Paradox LP to follow now Azeri's gone and this looks pretty interesting.

Mirdini
Jan 14, 2012



Sweet, this is back. Looking forward to seeing what the De Hautevilles get up to this time.

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


Awesome, I'm hoping that the D'Hautevilles do something completely different this time around.

Raserys
Aug 22, 2011

IT'S YA BOY

What about when The Old Gods comes out?

Mirdini
Jan 14, 2012



Raserys posted:

What about when The Old Gods comes out?

While cool we probably won't be dealing with pagans too much down in Sicily? And updating to any expansion is very likely to break the save file so I'm guessing Viscardus is going to be sticking with SoI+LoR rather than risking another LP collapse.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

Not one of the more complicated characters I've ever role-played over the years, honestly, but fun nevertheless.

Here's hoping for a mega-LP finally going the peaceful democratic route rather than maximum Hitler.

Also, is Sunset Invasion active?

TheGrandMystic
Aug 7, 2007


Gonna join the chorus and say that I'm glad to see this is back! CKII really is a great game and Sicily is really fun to play as since you're close to the center of the map and can expand in pretty much any direction you feel like, whether it's a crusade in the Levant, participation in the Reconquista, a conquering spree in North Africa, or messing around with either of the Empires.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012


Aw man, I am pumped for this.

Viscardus
Jun 1, 2011

Thus equipped by fortune, physique, and character, he was naturally indomitable, and subordinate to no one in the world.


Crameltonian posted:

Well I've already learned something from this LP. I'd always assumed Bohemond actually was a bastard but nope, looks like he got screwed over by the Wicked Stepmother.

Well, he was and he wasn't. His parents were married when he was born, but the marriage was ended on grounds of consanguinity. So it could definitely be argued either way. I'm not exactly an expert on the Catholic Church's laws at the time, so I don't really know for sure.

Mirdini posted:

While cool we probably won't be dealing with pagans too much down in Sicily? And updating to any expansion is very likely to break the save file so I'm guessing Viscardus is going to be sticking with SoI+LoR rather than risking another LP collapse.

Yeah, not updating to The Republic means there is precisely zero chance of updating to The Old Gods. As much as I'm looking forward to it, I really don't feel like the LP is going to lose too much by not having it.

Cythereal posted:

Also, is Sunset Invasion active?

No. Funny as it might be, it's not really appropriate for what I want this LP to be.

Ceciltron
Jan 11, 2007

Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!

I don't read many paradox LPs, and usually they're pretty decent. However, this is probably the most painfully verbose, content-less drivel I've ever set eyes on.

And no Aztecs? Come the gently caress on.

sullat
Jan 8, 2012


Viscardus posted:

Well, he was and he wasn't. His parents were married when he was born, but the marriage was ended on grounds of consanguinity. So it could definitely be argued either way. I'm not exactly an expert on the Catholic Church's laws at the time, so I don't really know for sure.

If there was an annulment, then the marriage never happened in the eyes of the church, therefore the kids are all bastards. Think Henry VIII's marriage to Catherine.

Verant
Oct 20, 2012

Go on an adventure ordained by fate?
-->Okay.
-->Eh.

Oh neat, this LP's back. Can't wait to see where we bring glorious Sicilian rule to this time!

JT Jag
Aug 30, 2009

I say, old bean.


I still wish this was a Sergios Spartenos playthrough. Glory to the Greco-Roman Culture.

BiggerJ
May 21, 2007

What shall we do with him? A permaban, perhaps? Probate him for a few years? Or...shall we employ a big red custom title? You, the goons of SA, shall decide his fate.

All these Paradox Mega-LPs have gotten me wondering. What's the longest Paradox game-chain you can take a single save through?

TheGrandMystic
Aug 7, 2007


Mega-LPs tend to go Crusader Kings -> Europa Universalis -> Victoria -> Hearts of Iron (insert whatever number version you want to play after each one), right? I think that's really the best course of action you can do unless you want to be really ambitious and play through EU: Rome and then fill in the great span of time between that and CK with alt-history as you make the conversions necessary for an alt-scenario. This does make me wonder, though: would anyone even be interested in a grand strategy game set between 4-500 and 1000 AD, roughly between Rome and CK? It's not exactly an "empty" period of history but I don't seem to run across many games that are set during that period of time.

Soylent Pudding
Jun 22, 2007

We've got people!


TheGrandMystic posted:

Mega-LPs tend to go Crusader Kings -> Europa Universalis -> Victoria -> Hearts of Iron (insert whatever number version you want to play after each one), right? I think that's really the best course of action you can do unless you want to be really ambitious and play through EU: Rome and then fill in the great span of time between that and CK with alt-history as you make the conversions necessary for an alt-scenario. This does make me wonder, though: would anyone even be interested in a grand strategy game set between 4-500 and 1000 AD, roughly between Rome and CK? It's not exactly an "empty" period of history but I don't seem to run across many games that are set during that period of time.

We had a discussion about this a little while back about this in the Paradox thread. There was some grumblings about how well the Clausewitz engine could model the great migrations of the period but there was also some interest.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

Some missions, you just can't get rid of a bomb

TheGrandMystic posted:

Mega-LPs tend to go Crusader Kings -> Europa Universalis -> Victoria -> Hearts of Iron (insert whatever number version you want to play after each one), right?

This is correct, as there's a gap between EU Rome and CK. Once EU4 is released, there's also going to be a gap between that and Victoria, since EU 4 will end earlier than EU 3 does, mostly because EU 3 never really dealt with Revolutionary France or its alt-history equivalent very well.

You also have to roleplay and pretty hard if you're doing this, since it's not that difficult to blob into a world-spanning empire within the first game or two.

fermun
Nov 4, 2009


I think that with the next CK2 expansion The Old Gods, EU4, March of the Eagles, and the upcoming East vs. West, it will be essentially continuous 867-1991. There will still be a slight gap between March of the Eagles and Victoria 2, but it will be the same sort of gap there currently is between EU3 and Victoria 2.

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012

Kazakhstan branch?

gradenko_2000 posted:

Once EU4 is released, there's also going to be a gap between that and Victoria, since EU 4 will end earlier than EU 3 does, mostly because EU 3 never really dealt with Revolutionary France or its alt-history equivalent very well.
Are you sure about this? Rev. France is in EU4, there have been screenshots of a 1789 startdate.

Potooweet
Feb 17, 2012


Sure, it'll exist, but the conditions of the time aren't modeled very well. And the game will probably end in 1800 or something so they can sell an expansion.

HereticMIND
Nov 4, 2012

by Y Kant Ozma Post


Oh, man. I can already smell the political trainwreck from here. 'Tis a good smell, it is!

Can't wait to see what shenanigans our country finds themselves in this time.

Viscardus
Jun 1, 2011

Thus equipped by fortune, physique, and character, he was naturally indomitable, and subordinate to no one in the world.


Chapter Two: Palermo (1067-68)

Summer brings a new campaign season, and Duke Robert eagerly calls his vassals for a new attack on the city of Palermo, the heart of Sicily.



Before the Normans have even finished rallying their armies, however, the Sheikh of Palermo strikes first, boldly marching on Norman-held Messina.



The siege is hindered significantly by an outbreak of disease among the Muslim troops, ensuring that the Normans have time to relieve the city.



Robertís army hits the besieging army at its moment of weakness, and it quickly becomes clear that they are no match for the Norman army.



The battle quickly becomes a rout, and the Muslims army is effectively destroyed.



Robert immediately marches to Palermo, where his army lays siege to the city. Its defenses are strong, however, and the besieging army is quickly worn down by local bandits and criminals.



The Norman troops begin to take their frustrations out on the locals, and several nearby towns are pillaged and burned.



Finally, a break for Robertís army comes when a desperate sally by the cityís defenders goes awry, leaving the city open to assault.



Norman troops flood the city, and Palermo finally falls after months under siege.



With that, the war is effectively over, as much of the island comes under Norman control.



Shortly after the war ends, Robert receives more good news Ė King Philippe of France has agreed to marry his eldest daughter Emma, adding further prestige and legitimacy to the ascendant díHauteville name.



This stream of military and diplomatic successes serves to improve Robertís mood and lessen his jealous nature.



He demonstrates this by handing out some of the newly captured lands in Sicily to his brothers William and Tancred.




Robert is not the only one pleased by the capture of Palermo, as the campaign was profitable for his vassals as well.



As the year comes to an end, one final piece of good news reaches Robert: Pope Alexander II has officially confirmed Robert in his title as Duke of Sicily as well as Apulia and Calabria.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


There's really not much room for variety in the early years, you're pretty much set to beat up Muslims => become king before doing anything more interesting.

Nolanar
May 24, 2012


I'm actually playing this as the count of Palermo (hacked to be a merchant republic), so it will be interesting to see how things diverge from my game (starting with that inevitable Battle of Messina going in the other direction). But yeah, beating up on the rest of the Sicilian Muslims seems like the obvious next step here.

Crameltonian
Mar 27, 2010



...132.9 warscore for a single battle? I assume that's the result of changes CK2+ makes?

Viscardus
Jun 1, 2011

Thus equipped by fortune, physique, and character, he was naturally indomitable, and subordinate to no one in the world.


Crameltonian posted:

...132.9 warscore for a single battle? I assume that's the result of changes CK2+ makes?

Yeah, Wiz was unhappy with how little battles end up contributing to war score in larger wars. Scaling issues mean that it tends to end wars like this very quickly, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I continued the war a little longer than necessary both to make the story a little better and to get some extra money from sieges.

By the way, feel free to let me know if this update was too short. I'm still getting back into the groove of making these so it's tough to judge exactly how long they should be. I did get a few complaints that the first update was too long, but that was mostly due to its introductory nature.

Diploid
Oct 21, 2010


If it wasn't for Wiz making battles contribute more, I have my doubts I'd have ever beaten back Norway and Normandy as Saxon England.

Crameltonian
Mar 27, 2010


Ah right. That does make sense and would probably cut down on tedium, even if 132.9 warscore is still kinda funny to me. And I thought the update length was fine (although I'm happy to read updates of pretty much any length as long as they come out), it made sense as it was mostly a self-contained story.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

My previous avatar was pretty sexist. I was overcompensating for being a Shy Guy.


Wiz's adjustment makes sense---but he went WAY too far in the opposite direction, for my tastes. Losing 100+Warscore after an unlucky battle is crazy when you still have plenty of gold lying around to buy mercenaries, for instance. I see what he's attempting to do, but I'm not sure I agree with his decision.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Veryslightlymad posted:

Wiz's adjustment makes sense---but he went WAY too far in the opposite direction, for my tastes. Losing 100+Warscore after an unlucky battle is crazy when you still have plenty of gold lying around to buy mercenaries, for instance. I see what he's attempting to do, but I'm not sure I agree with his decision.

It's a scaling issue because the calc is based on the entire potential manpower of the other part rather than their max levies, so either you have way too decisive battles in small wars or useless battles in large wars. There's no inbetween.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

My previous avatar was pretty sexist. I was overcompensating for being a Shy Guy.


Wiz posted:

It's a scaling issue because the calc is based on the entire potential manpower of the other part rather than their max levies, so either you have way too decisive battles in small wars or useless battles in large wars. There's no inbetween.

It's understandable, then. I'm going to run my next game on CK2+ And I'm preparing myself for a totally different play style. In your defense, combat in CK2 doesn't make any goddamn sense no matter what you do. I'm not sure it's possible to get to that "sweet spot".

I'm biased because one of my formative memories of this game is successfully beating Byzantium, then the Fatimids, then the Holy Roman Empire in successive (and in the first two, concurrent) wars as Cyrenaica. I'd have never been able to do that in CK2+. I'm not entirely sure how I did it in CK2 Vanilla.

Viscardus
Jun 1, 2011

Thus equipped by fortune, physique, and character, he was naturally indomitable, and subordinate to no one in the world.


I just want to apologize to anyone who noticed my absence here. It turns out I picked kind of a bad time to restart this - I've been a lot busier than expected over the last couple of weeks. I just want to make it clear that this isn't dying or anything, but updates will probably be a bit sparse for a while. Not exactly a triumphant relaunching of the LP, especially since we've been over this stuff already, but the LP will continue eventually.

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General Antares
Sep 5, 2011

There be corundium up in them thar asteroids!!!

No problem, take your time. It'll be well worth the wait!

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