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I wish them well with it. I have to say, though, that until I can determine the quality of their Wasteland 2 project (like, me actually playing and then enjoying it) I won't be giving them more money for their next game, be it pre-order or "pledge" donation or whatever. inExile basically got a pre-order free pass from me for W2, for various reasons, but they haven't actually done anything noteworthy to earn another.
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Feb 20, 2013 19:58
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What I don't really understand - I accept my credibility loss here, I suppose - is the use of one tabletop rule set over another as it translates into a game. I totally understand the rule sets in honest to god P&P, because you have to do all that poo poo by hand, but it's all automated and behind the scenes in a video game, right? Is it just the story setting, or the rights to use specific nomenclature? I've never understood game developers talking about finding D&D restrictive or whatever, because I've never really noticed a big difference in play style. A level-up in XCOM is similar to a level up in Baldur's Gate 2 is similar to Arcanum is similar to Dragon Age is similar to Dishonored and Alpha Protocol and Vampire: The Masquerade. We all just choose poo poo and it does it when we click on it. It seems to me that more important than the setting is the quality of the story and plot and interactivity within it all. Beyond the whole 50k years into the future but also conveniently post-apocalyptic setting (just rustlin' jimmies), what actual video game gameplay differences would this game allow or could we expect it to have? It interests me.
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Feb 20, 2013 21:15
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Great Rumbler posted:There isn't a lot of information out there, but I do absolutely love the vibe coming off the few bits of art they've shown so far: Hoo, yeah, that concept art looks interesting. It's funny, the first thing I thought of when I saw those images was concept art of Zanarkand in Final Fantasy X. That, plus vampire hunter D - what with the silly long curvy swords. I don't even like Vampire Hunter D. I'm definitely not trying to poo poo the thread up with any sort of negativity, and I'm totally looking forward to seeing the Torment idea develop, but having faith in something and having it completed to satisfaction are two different things - especially when your first faith hasn't been rewarded. For me (that doesn't make it the optimal choice for everyone, though), I can't really think of anything that would compel me to give my money to inXile again short of me playing their first new game, Wasteland 2. Even with Obsidian, a developer whom I adore and whose Kickstarter I pledged a large amount of money to, I won't preorder Southpark (a property that I have an irrational love of). Everybody gets one leap of faith (unrequited cash from my wallet), but for a game that is going to be writing/idea heavy like PS:T, they gotta show that they can meet the expectations they're referencing and creating. Their last two games were, what, Chopper HD and Hunted Demon's Forge? Drifter fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Feb 21, 2013 |
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Feb 21, 2013 05:24
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gradenko_2000 posted:Chopper HD was an excellent game for what it was Oh, I didn't mean to imply those games were not solid titles on their own. I merely meant to say that nothing from those games shows that inXile is a developer who can create engaging and thought provoking story and plot and interactive elements that are going to really be crucial in a  spiritual successor of Torment. Great Rumbler makes a solid point saying that Fargo has put together essentially a new team for Wasteland and Torment (T|2)oo, so it's anybody's guess as to how it will shape up development-wise - so it is wrong to just shrug off the potential. However, even if it were Obsidian kickstarting a new NEW project, I think the wisest course of action is to see what the first project resolves itself into before you go funding another. If the news was just that "they're developing the game, so be sure to look out for it in 2014 and buy it," then gently caress yeah I'd be super stoked. But now they're allegedly going to be asking for money, again, before the first project that they asked money for is out. And the complexity of this game is, per expectation, much more complex in terms of writing and interactivity and character development than other things they've done. All this talk of 15 year old history means very little, consider the case with Ron Gilbert's most recent, decent but not stand out game, The Cave. In my opinion, anything past 6-10 years becomes ultimately nice but disregardable when expecting the same type of performance from someone. Whether it's just an outlier or not, this type of thing comes with a huge loving caveat emptor. This cult of nostalgic pedestal-placement of developers is getting really weird, especially when there hasn't been anything to come out of it yet, except our money.
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Feb 21, 2013 08:08
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Brother None posted:cool Hey, brotha. Good to have you here, man. What's a line producer accountable for? I've not heard that title before (I don't really pay attention to titles). Would you guys consider a "Live the Dream" type thing where backers of Wasteland 2 get some X dollar/percent off whatever pledge tier they back for Torment? They believed in us before anyone in their right minds would have.  Haha, I suppose if the beta slice we get of Wasteland 2 is really good I'd experience less cognitive dissonance in putting my support behind the Torment game. I like to support things, and people, but gently caress, pre-ordering anything is a fuckin' dangerous way to use money these days. Everything is marketing, even from honest people, and you never know who's honest until after the fact. I understand the "Chris or bust" mentality some people are feeling, when he's a proven agent and his results and works can be seen in multiple projects. I guess a thing that could help me feel better would be small script samples, to see how the game world can be interacted with and the quality of dialog and response. Drifter fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Feb 25, 2013 |
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Feb 25, 2013 18:16
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Great Rumbler posted:cool Like the Witcher crossed with Fallout 2's ending.  But more reflective writing.
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Feb 25, 2013 19:05
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Paper_Masochist posted:The naysaying kind of makes sense as I read it, but holy poo poo a sequel to Torment. If it wasn't for Wasteland 2 already being made by these guys, everybody here would be having a fit at all the incredible info coming out, lack of Avellone being the obvious exception, and since I've liked everything that I have already seen from Wasteland 2 so far, colour me excited like a kid on Christmas. I get you, brosef. I do want to say that I'm not naysaying; I am being vocally cautious, though. A fuzzy line, I'll admit. I am openly engaged with the idea and have a healthy curiosity to this, though. I really think people's expectations will be a lot higher when it comes to the Torment pitch. I think Nostalgia will draw a lot of people, but not as many, because of Obsidian having Eternity with all of its potentially overlapping expectations as far as story and interactivity and what have you. P:Eternity is basically a spiritual relative to Torment 1, as it was constantly repeated in the gaming tabloids prior and during their Kickstarter. I think the Torment pitch is really going to have to showcase ability of the developers currently and Fargo won't really have his whole "gently caress tha I am really interested in seeing what different gameplay and story mechanics they will be bringing into the Torment 2 project.
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Feb 25, 2013 20:59
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Quarex posted:No. Dude, there's a significant difference between staking your reputation on one game and moving on to "staking your reputation on now a second game before the first one you originally staked you reputation on is even released." C'mon. Cut your sycophancy. It's weird, sure. Doesn't mean it's wrong or bad, but it's a challenging thing for many people to accept. We just have to wait and see what the presentation will bring. I'm looking forward to their take.
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Feb 26, 2013 01:51
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I get you and agree with much of what you say. I think we're essentially on the same page. I was just pointing out how odd Quarex's  statement was.I'm not so sure that for these smaller games' studios they are better off going to a publisher, to be honest. I could imagine that between the contracts and IP rights and loan / expenditure repayments and profit sharing it would all be much more restrictive and strictly enforceable. I would think the freedoms afforded going into a very loose partnership with the Kickstarter backers are so laughably unconstrained that you wouldn't know what to do with yourself for a few days. Plus, it's your property after that, with all that affords.And when you think about it, your option 2 is getting pretty close to a demo of a game. I make a lot of my videogame decisions coming from Giantbomb's 30-60 minute quicklooks. A thirty minute Let's Play of the middle of a game really helps get a feel for it. Your option three is what I'm looking forward to critically judging.  As I said, I'm really interested in seeing what they will bring to the table.
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Feb 26, 2013 04:17
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^^^ - Haha, yes. Torment was very much about the characters to me, rather than the setting. The Lady of Pain is one of the most badass personifications of mysterious force that I know of from my PnP days, but that aside, I literally can't remember anything interesting about the Planescape setting that stood out beyond a normal D&D or Ravenloft or whatever setting (Lord Soth is badderass than the Lady). I remember almost everything about the party (and Deionarra  )I played as, though.One thing where I feel this Torment Kickstarter should go is displaying interesting character art. Not just silly portraits - because jesus, that's really played out and it's very difficult to make a bog standard portrait interesting (no, Guild Wars 2 clothes don't count). Sure, Landscapes can be characters, too, I suppose, but usually they aren't drawn that way. I mean images that have agency in them, agentic characters. Where characters interact with one another or the environment in a not just stand-and-stare kinda way. For reference, I think that's one aspect where the Longest Journey / Dreamfall kickstarter thing is falling down on. It's a game that relies on the story of it's characters more than the setting, but all they are showing are a run of the mill forest setting and a pretty standard looking cyber-punkish cityscape. There's nothing special to a person who hasn't played the previous games - because a connection isn't being forged. Of all the character art they've shown, the purple bear guy and the crow eating a book are the two most compelling pieces, because they're actually doing things, not standing in a coma on a street starting at gently caress all. They're mostly catering to the people who fondly remember the games, and aren't really reaching out, viscerally, to the people who might not have experienced the games before. They could easily better do that with the (nice) words they're currently writing along with a visual reference (that they're missing out on). And in my opinion, many kickstarters are looking at the middle-run drop plateau as something to simply accept, rather than exceed at. I just see the opportunity to gain money and grow the kickstarter community being passed over. The people who've bought in have already paid but devs try to focus on recruiting the same people; a marketing shift never really happens. Gameplay footage at the start probably wouldn't be as important as painting the world and characters you'll be seeing. Or rather, gameplay might serve as proof that something is actually being worked on, but won't be as memorable as the other. Alongside painting the characters the dialog system should also be on display. Wasteland 2's had some pretty cool examples recently about branching dialog, but I'd expect Torment's examples to have incredible depth, not just a healthy spread of options.
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Feb 26, 2013 08:24
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Sizone posted:The brothel of slaking intellectual lusts, a pregnant alley, catacombs filled with hyperintelligent hivemind rodents, an art gallery full of otherworldy pieces, a goddamn giant iron golem blacksmith who is interested in forging the end of times, a demon who set up shop in the skull of a dinosaur, A FORTRESS MADE OF REGRET. Be honest, did you even play far enough in to get to the clerks ward? Hell, even the mortuary is still one of the most unique gaming environs out there, even after the new paradigm of every game must have zombies. Hold on, let me wiki some other things.  The brothel was where I met Fall from Grace. I remember Mantouk, the rat guy, and the Fortress of Regrets was where I did all the crazy poo poo with my incarnations that was loving awesome, but no, I had forgotten about dinosaur head but I can visualize it now that you've brought it up, (the golem was a character in the foundry, not a setting, dude), the museum with the weird stuff in the beginning was something I had forgotten; I remember the memory stones in the sensorium more because of what I learned than that they existed as sensory stones. No, I pretty much remember the characters and their stories more than what the locations looked like. I do remember that awful maze with nordrom, though. Bear in mind, I'm talking about a first look connecting with an audience that might not be as aware of the game as people who can rattle off fifteen locations and characters in a minute. And I never said locations weren't important. All that talk of you insinuating my not having played the game and you only read my first two sentences, what the heck, buddy? Drifter fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Feb 26, 2013 |
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Feb 26, 2013 09:02
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Sizone posted:Here's the thing, I didn't have to look any of that up because the setting stuck with me, as much as anything else about the game. I'm sorry they didn't sink in as deeply for you. I would suggest, maybe, smoking a ton of pot while playing through it again. And the golem wasn't in the foundry, he was a part of his siege tower, so he's technically both a character and a setting. What are you actually trying to argue with me about here? Why are your jimmies rustled?
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Feb 26, 2013 09:10
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Sizone posted:That a Planescape setting fails to offer anything unique compared to other D'n'D settings. Why you gotta go and rustle my jimmies like that? Okay, so long as we aren't actually e-fighting (iFighting?) or anything then I'm cool.    I guess...Here, I mentioned Ravenloft (for better or worse) as a setting because (according to those silly books I devoured as a child) it was a land that had a personality - an agency all its own. It was evil and spiteful and it twisted your nature and corrupted you and its mists wouldn't let you escape it. The setpieces were kinda boring Transylvania in the 1700s and whatever, but as a plane of existence it was memorable because of its reptilian drive. So the setting became a character - thus, memorable.Planescape had cool and unique setpieces, but for me the character agency is what I remember the most, because that's just how I do things. Like, the Fortress of Regret was cool, but it's where The Nameless One's immortal incarnations existed and where he learned just how much more of an INCREDIBLE douchebag he was. By itself, the location was of secondary value to me. But I'm not disparaging the game, it was fantastic, I really liked the art and we would all have lost out had we not had those creative people working to put together those really cool game environments. And Quarex, I totally dig what you're saying. That's why I tried to offer a suggestion from my personal point of view for Kickstarter stuff rather than keep on saying how well or how poorly I thought the Torment Kickstarter would go. I think we need less yay- or naysayers and just more constructive criticism. Whether it's worth it for them to take in, is up to them, but it makes for better discussion. edit:  Mass Effect
Drifter fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Feb 26, 2013 |
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Feb 26, 2013 09:48
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Pyradox posted:But how would they be able to convince us? A short story or writing sample? It'll be tough to encapsulate the way it feels to get invested in a character after 10 hours of play in just a sample conversation. It also won't necessarily show off what kind of options you'd get during the dialogue. I mean that is an ideal thing to have, but we'd need some kind of context for it to actually be convincing. A demo script.
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Mar 1, 2013 04:04
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Great Rumbler posted:I think a short story or novella would be the best way to go here. Maybe 40-50 pages, introduce the world and some locations, touch on some of the major themes, and the like. It could focus on a minor character who appears briefly in the game or maybe not appear in the game at all, just create a brand new character and carry them through the arc of their own personal story. That way, you don't have to worry about spoiling part of the game or trying to properly present a slice of the game story that's devoid of its context. The story story itself would the context, since it would be self-contained. Yeah, but no one who isn't already probably going to pledge is going to take the time to read that. Haha. That might encourage someone to increase a pledge tier or two, but really, the three to five minute video is going to make or break the Kickstarter, along with the, what, five or six paragraphs on the front page.
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Mar 2, 2013 21:58
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CottonWolf posted:Fargo's twitter has been strongly hinting that the Kickstarter will be happening at some point this week. Or maybe there's some other big RPG announcement coming next week that Fargo knows about, and being really dense. Both are possibilities! Wasteland 2 is being brought on as a launch property for the PlayStation 4. It will have to be slightly modified so the UI can work on both systems, and to include multiplayer deathmatch modes. Drifter fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 02:10
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Twee as gently caress posted:edit: Also, should I bother with the PS:T thread? I'm halfway done with it, but it's a lot of work if about 10 people want to talk about it My imagination. And a strange desire. PS:T was definitely a really good game, but I think the spread of it all is pretty covered in the obsidian thread. Can you use this one? I can imagine that when the Kickstarter starts the OP might want to link your post in to their first post or something to give people reference if they hadn't heard of it or anything. Or just start a new thread and if needed OP can link it when the time comes. Either way. Drifter fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 03:55
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Holy poo poo! Torment: Quantum Leap sounds like it could actually be pretty interesting. I'm a bit nervous to see how well or not it can be turned out. Also, the muttered "I'm Gone" at the end of the pitch video was a nice little addition. That concept art is beautiful. I don't know if you do this or not, but seriously give my regards to those artists. Looking forward to seeing this campaign fleshed out; already fitted in a slot at the early backer tier just in case, we'll see what the future holds. Good luck, either way. (haha, it'll get there) Brother None, it's looking good. Good job so far, sir. Drifter fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Mar 6, 2013 |
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Mar 6, 2013 15:41
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GoldenNugget posted:I got in on the 20 dollar deal. There's a 45 dollar breakpoint where you get both this and Wasteland 2... Now I feel like I shouldn't have spent 50 dollars on the Wasteland 2 kickstarter... :/ Oh well should be good regardless. Also, please don't do Abandonment: Daddy Issues. I've played all the Mass Effect games and you'll never be able to out -write or -produce their mastery of that single trope. 
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Mar 6, 2013 16:02
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Hakkesshu posted:I think it's a super interesting concept and the art looks great, so I went for $20. I think it's cool to have an actual pen & paper writer be the creative lead. Looking at his Wiki page, he's also worked on Dark Sun and Ravenloft, so loving sold. I might be wrong, but it must've been at least a decade since that happened with an RPG? Either way, it at least speaks well for the writing. When I was a little kid, I read all the Dark Sun and Ravenloft books that I could. I liked those so much better than Dragonlance. I still totally read the Dragonlance books, but my favorites were those two.
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Mar 6, 2013 16:50
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Hey, Brother None, I'd have probably been less likely to pledge immediately had you not been around here sharing and responding. Good on you for due diligence and being a pretty cool poster (not a shill).  Anyway, yeah, tell Fargo we get it and totally agree certain AAA publishers are the worst but it's starting to feel a bit peevish. Back to things, Although I don't have the money to purchase, those character statues look brutal as gently caress.
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Mar 6, 2013 20:04
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I may be weird, but that High-res digital art ought to be included in the Art book. I'm not sure why they would divide it that way.
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Mar 6, 2013 20:58
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Mex posted:Yay When funding ends.
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Mar 6, 2013 21:07
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^^^ Sackmo: At $2 mil there's an orchestral soundtrack. I am oddly fine with being able to have a stretch goal for the other gender. At first glance I was a bit leery, mainly because it really sounded exclusionary and anti feminist, but the game was a story created for one person. Adding a different person correctly takes a little more effort - especially if this game is as grand as it's being described. I would rather they spend extra time / people in correctly writing a female gender rather than just adding '*wolf whistle*' or '<insert witty Seinfeld-ian observation about being a woman>' or whatever caricature that tends to happen more often than not. Hopefully Mur (I've only read Playing For Keeps, which was simple, but nice) or another female writer/editor can help lend her voice to creating an actual feminine (not stereotypical) character.
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Mar 7, 2013 06:28
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Fintilgin posted:There is a widescreen/custom resolution mod as well as a mod that fixes the UI/font for those resolutions if you don't want to play in 800x600 or whatever games released in back in the day. I think they're both at Spellhold, or easily googleable. oh jesus, god yes. I've just starting playing Mask of the Betrayer for the first time and just about died reading all the text before I found that wonderful text enlarger. Every game should have multiple text sizes. You would think it would be second nature for designers and programmers to future proof that poo poo, drat.
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Mar 7, 2013 06:32
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They mentioned running out of text space on the front page earlier; it seems they'd be able to make all of their bulletpointed lists into images without out anyone the wiser, no? Also, doubling down on the  sentiments.
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Mar 7, 2013 15:08
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ymgve posted:Derailing the thread a bit - I'm reinstalling Torment, but is there a way to make the UI elements scale with my resolution? I am tempted to just play in the original resolution because when using anything else, things just become tiny. (I basically only want higher resolutions for the sharper text) http://thunderpeel2001.blogspot.com/2009/01/planescape-torment-fully-modded.html just follow this. Don't do what you're describing.
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Mar 7, 2013 18:26
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ymgve posted:I already did follow that, or the equivalent guide on gog.com. The problem is that at any non-retarded resolution, all the UI stuff is way too tiny, even with the widescreen and UI mod. The UI stuff as in fonts or as in the boxes that hold them? You're out of luck if you want the game boxy things to get bigger, it won't do that. Just run it at a resolution not higher than the 1280s and make the font double in size and it's about as sharp as it gets. I'd recommend you run it at 1024x768 and the font at 120%. Also, just get used to having small boxes in your inventory, it's annoying initially, sure, but it's not the focus of the game. It's as good as it'll get, unfortunately.
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Mar 7, 2013 19:15
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Brother None posted:Yip. Yip Yip
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Mar 7, 2013 20:10
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I've just started playing Mask of the Betrayer for the first time as a spirit shaman and I have TWO other characters in my group and my rear end STILL gets handed to me every time I fight a group of enemies. Enemies are damage sponges of the highest order. I have, literally, a billion spells and they don't do jack. I love the character interaction, though 
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Mar 8, 2013 05:08
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Brother None posted:Chris is currently writing for Project Eternity, writing novellas for PE and WL2, and working on the publisher pitches for Obsidian. If we add Torment to his workload, he might die. I don't want that on my conscience!! But one of your stretch goals is continued life after death. He'll be fine, we just have to make that stretch goal and Chris'll live forever.
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Mar 8, 2013 06:14
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GetWellGamers posted:Chris Avellone got a hold of it and enjoyed it- though didn't finish it- so that should say something. I don't think it does. If I wrote a book I'm probably not going to want to read someone else's rewrite of my book. It has nothing about the quality of their book, just that I have no desire to read something pretty drat similar to what I've already written.
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Mar 9, 2013 05:52
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Brother None, I know you guys can't be adding too many cooks in the kitchen before poo poo starts to just break down and become inefficient, so by doubling and possibly tripling your game content how much longer development time do you foresee this taking? Are you guys hiring other artists and stuff as well to faster add assets to the game? I'm not entirely sure what I'm asking, but for starters, I guess, how dramatically different does the production of the game become and does anything become better visually as well?
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Mar 9, 2013 09:34
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There was, according to my memory, just one superior character build for PS:T - intelligent and wisdomy as all get out, right? Are there still all those silly traits (str, int, wis, cha, pop, lok, drp) in Numenara and this game, or are the things that actually matter and provide content-gating the conversation choices/actions you make? Will the color wheel of morality be numbers we invest in or will it develop behind the scenes as we act on the world from the quests and discussions that we'll encounter?
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Mar 9, 2013 11:14
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Overminty posted:The Numenera site seems to suggest there won't be the typical dnd abilities but instead you choose a particular focus and some descriptors. It sounds interesting to me but I have no idea how well that would translate over to a videogame. Thanks. Well, that doesn't seem very complicated at all, but it also seems really vague. You're right, I'd really like to see how inXile will integrate the character creation with their game. It'd be kinda nice to not have your main seven stats in a game, for once.
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Mar 9, 2013 11:48
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Rinkles posted:If I'm understanding that right, it seems weird to me to cut up your goals after announcing them. Whatever works best, I guess. Future goals, most likely.
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Mar 9, 2013 23:19
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DrManiac posted:Didn't one publisher try to capitalize on In-xile's name by making them fund their own project with kick starter while the publisher still got publishing rights somehow? Asking, not making. And I think it was Obsidian who mentioned that story a few months ago. But yeah, either way, what a freaking joke.
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Mar 9, 2013 23:28
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NihilCredo posted:I am not joking when I say that a Monte Cook apology for Toughness ought to be a 2.75m goal or something. It would be not just for kicks, but more importantly to reassure us about his influence on Numanuma game design. How is toughness any worse than AC or THAC-0 stuff, or any other thing I probably don't know about? I think this talks about toughness? Doesn't seem particularly terrible.
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Mar 11, 2013 08:27
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parasyte posted:Monte Cook calls it out in a blog entry that was conveniently lost in a site redesign. He mentions deliberately bad choices put into the game. Also note that his usage of 'Timmy,' while inspired by Magic, is incorrect by the MtG team's own articles. That article sounds like he knows it isn't the best way to go about designing things; sort of a mea culpa. It got brought up somewhere that a good old school example of his 'ivory tower' design in a game is the intro stage to Megaman X. To me I would think that means you're given the ability, but left to find the particular way it should be used to suit you. It can be linear or complex, but either way you're left to discover it on your own. I totally think it can be made to work within a game play setting, but, for instance, it can be a bit much when I'm playing Neverwinter Nights 2 with no background D&D knowledge and ten thousand feats are staring me in the face at level-up. Or when there are two separate feats for specialization between a mace and a morningstar...really, guys (although I know some people enjoy differentiation of this type)? Drifter fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Mar 11, 2013 |
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Mar 11, 2013 18:44
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Sir_Seth posted:inXile's history doesn't fill me with a lot confidence... We come full circle. Haha. It's a different team - or at least there are additions to it who have some solid pedigree, and they've at least put together a rather solid showing with that demonstration of Wasteland 2. At this point it is a wait and see thing, but I like what they've expressed so far. You've got a month to see their vision be further explained to satisfaction, I guess. Drifter fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Mar 12, 2013 |
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Mar 12, 2013 03:45
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