Oh man, the last page or two of this thread are nostalgic as gently caress. Its almost wonderful to see people getting irrationally mad about the superficial, literal elements of Evangelion again.  bahamut posted:This business of the time-skip was awful. Anything involving the Wunder was stupid. The 'curse of Evangelion' is supremely moronic. I found the whole deal with the timeskip and the Curse of Eva to be refreshingly blatant, actually: "It's been almost twenty loving years since the show started and you still haven't grown up or moved past it, you nerds are all loving broken." E: In fact, I'm pretty sure that the term "curse of eva" is a direct reference to an interview one of the producers made in 2006, where it was used to describe how Evangelion started a major trend shift in anime from targeting teenagers to targeting manchildren with deep pockets, and suffering as a medium as a result: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/13182/Otsuki-Interview-November-2006/ (Warning, evageeks) Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Apr 28, 2013 |
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Apr 28, 2013 09:38
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Scyantific posted:Wait did they specifically mention that he has absolutely no sync ratio with EVA-01 anymore? I might have missed that part, which confuses me because he was able to sync with Unit 13. Yep. Though, this is Evangelion, so I'm inclined to believe that any number, statistic, or scientific reading is meaningless until directly shown otherwise.
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Apr 28, 2013 20:34
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ImpAtom posted:I mean Gendo is, at heart, the kind of guy who had a bad experience and decided to gently caress the world to get what he wants. Shinji does not want to and should not want to emulate that fucker. I think this is an easily overlooked fact that people need to keep in mind to understand why Shinji's actions at the end of 2.22 were A Bad Thing. He was essentially forsaking the world, and deciding to get what He wanted at any cost. In other words, he was turning into Gendo.
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Apr 29, 2013 00:59
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:
 It would have been harsh, but it may have been the better choice to make. ArchangeI posted:The problem I have with this is that 3.33 seems to contradict itself. The basic message is "You need to grow the gently caress up, Shinji/Otakus". But anytime Shinji tries anything, the world gets more hosed up as the result, to the point where everyone tells him to please, just stop trying, thanks. What kind of message is that? "You will make mistakes growing up, and it is therefore better not to grow up at all"? The problem with Shinji isn't that he chooses to act, its that when he acts, its from a childish perspective. Keep in mind that the entire reason things got to the state they did at the end of 2.22 was because Shinji left, and Kaji essentially had to guilt him into returning and taking his post. The entire episode 14 sequence in the original series, as well as the Zeruel sequence in rebuild, are basically a dark, monkey's paw-ish take on the classic childish statement of "You'll all miss me when I'm gone!" Its actually quite similar to a scene in the original Gundam, when the protagonist steals the gundam and runs away, the White Base is attacked in his absence, and he returns just in time to save everyone when it seemed they were about to be defeated. If he had stayed, it's likely, though not certain, that Rei would have never been eaten at all, Unit 02 wouldn't have been nearly destroyed, and Zeruel wouldn't have made it into NERV HQ. Instead, the whole sequence plays out like a twisted form of a cliche, with Shinji gone, his allies being stomped, and him returning at the last moment to save the day, but by the time he gets back, one of his few friends and allies has died because he wasn't there. He could have accepted that it was a mistake to leave, and dealt with the guilt that Rei was dead essentially because of him, but he instead tries to say "gently caress you, I want a happy ending!" and reverse everything that he could have been blamed for, and as a result a lot of people die because of it. What's worse, the entire ending sequence of 3.33 is essentially Shinji deciding to do all this again, even though he's already seen that he can't reverse his mistakes. Kaworu, literally the only person Shinji has decided to trust, has changed his mind and is begging Shinji to turn back, but Shinji refuses - not because he wants to save the world, not because he thinks its the right thing to do, but because, like a child trying to hide the pieces of a broken vase, he wants to erase his mistake without learning from it. Yes, he's been misled, yes, he's been abused, yes, he's been lied to, but ultimately its him who chooses not to listen or learn. The problem isn't the idea of Shinji acting, it's that he refuses to act like an adult. Unfortunately, nobody else in the cast is willing to act like one either.
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Apr 29, 2013 02:27
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Nate RFB posted:I never have and never will fault Shinji for leaving NERV in episode 19. Him staying and just toeing the line would have been insane. It really is a hard thing to blame him for, I agree. It was a lovely situation to be in and a lovely situation overall. However, it's abundantly clear from how - in both versions - he was easily stomping Zeruel even before unit 01 went berserk that had he been there from the start, the situation probably wouldn't have escalated nearly as far. I mean, let's be honest here, it's not like he was throwing his hat down and quitting his job at McDonalds, as far as he knew he was one of maybe three people - two, in rebuild - who were even remotely capable of stopping the Angels, and in Rebuild especially he is actively aware of how high the stakes are if they make it to terminal dogma. He was well aware that he was putting the entire world in danger by quitting, and while he was in an incredibly lovely and abusive situation, leaving wasn't going to make it better.
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Apr 29, 2013 02:47
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Feranon posted:The Q stands for "quickening" apparently. It also sounds the same as kyu, finishing the jo-ha-kyu thing from the first two movies. I dunno what the deal is with those two pipes for Final, though Musical notation. Means "repeat."
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Apr 29, 2013 04:32
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May 4, 2013 06:09
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With Asuka at least, I think it was a deliberate way of showing that she's not just physically locked at 14 years old, but mentally and emotionally stunted as well. If you'll indulge the cross-franchise reference, you could probably explain the rest of WILLE as an extension and extrapolation of Gundam's themes of the previous generation being The Enemy and a potential obstacle to the next generation's process of maturation; the current generation (the EVA pilots) is being prevented from growing up because the previous one (WILLE, NERV) will not let them learn from mistakes or mature, and would rather they stay just as they are to use for their own purposes.
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May 5, 2013 03:49
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SPICE MUST FLOW posted:Then who is this supposed to be? Its about five eyes short of being lilith, chief.
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May 8, 2013 03:36
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yellowjournalism posted:But no seriously I'm amazed people are able to pass judgment with such finality on Rebuild when 3.0 was nearly 100% setup and zero conclusion. And I'm equally amazed people feel like Eva is supposed to engage on only one level (colors and drugs/moneygrubbing cashgrab/profound symbolism/genre deconstruction/a nice story about poorly-raised kids being put through insane situations and trying to find love) and only that level (because it either appeals to them the most, or they feel like that is the sole premise of the work). I may piss someone off for saying this but I kind of get the feeling that a lot of people have become so invested in writing off Eva as a slap-dash cash-grab with meaningless symbolism and a fandom full of "pretentious" suckers that, when presented with evidence that they may be wrong and NGE actually has some modicum of artistic merit, they flip the gently caress out and go into sunk-cost defense mode rather than admit they were wrong about something on the internet. These people don't want to look deeper than the surface of the work, because doing so may present them with evidence that they weren't actually as clever and ahead of the curve as they thought. As a tangent, its interesting to note that as far as I'm aware, Japanese society does not have the same "high art/low art" divide that the west does. Its entirely possible for a creator to make a work as a thought-provoking cultural analysis and a blatant cash grab at the same time, and see no contradiction in this. Superflat (an art movement actually partially inspired by evangelion) is an excellent example. Its roots are in taking the endemic super-cute aesthetic of anime and escalating it to the point of grotesqueness, sometimes by juxtaposing it with deliberately uncomfortable and ludicrous sexual imagery, but the very same artists who do this work don't see any particular fault in turning around and doing paid design work for the very same people they're openly mocking, sometimes in the exact same style.
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May 13, 2013 02:15
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Undead Unicorn posted:Can someone provide a link to interview or something? Sounds like an interesting read. The interview is translated here: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/13182/Otsuki-Interview-November-2006/ Also the source of the term "curse of eva" I mentioned earlier.
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May 13, 2013 04:45
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Cardboard Box A posted:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/10329-Evangeliowned What makes this great is that the body pillows are pretty much the only thing there that isn't similarly overbranded whenever, say, Marvel is pushing a new movie, but you don't see him claiming that having Iron Man badged doctor pepper in every store in the continental US makes The Avengers a hollow and empty work as a direct result. Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 03:08 on May 15, 2013 |
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May 15, 2013 03:01
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Gainax was special in that it was one of the first anime studios that was explicitly run and staffed by anime nerds who were all about catering to anime nerds. This literally goes all the way back to the Daicon animations, which were professional-level 4 minute animations referencing as much nerd poo poo as possible in a funny way. A lot of what western fans call "gainax quirks" are actually pop culture references to the things that the original gainax staff grew up with that westerners lack the context for - For example, the Inazuma Kick is a direct reference to Kamen Rider's iconic finishing move, the "Gainax pose" that shows up in all their mecha stuff is a reference to Getter Robo G rising out of the sea, and the evas themselves are a giant love letter to Ultraman, right down to the limited operating time that lasts exactly as long as the plot requires. I should note that this doesn't lessen Gainax's works in any way (a lot of people for some reason see the common use of pop culture references as a bad thing, even though Gainax has never used them as a crutch,) but its important to understand why all these little things keep recurring.
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May 26, 2013 07:29
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cafel posted:Ah, not hurting for money? I think you're a little optimistic about how much VA's are paid, even in a successful series. My friend saw Steven Blum at a con selling autographs for twenty bucks. If you're going to the trouble of doing a con for that kind of financial motive, I'd hesitate to say that you're not hurting for money. You still have to work at it to make a living. Except if you're on the Simpsons. Those guys make bank. Yeah, anime VAs especially get paid poo poo. There's a reason why a lot of the big names like Stephanie Sheh and the like pull double-duty as editors and directors, and it isn't out of charity.
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Jun 6, 2013 01:33
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The Grimace posted:Oh, yeah, you're definitely right. I just thought that since she was married to ADV's co-founder, that would amount to something... but then, ADV's been dead for years now, so that argument doesn't really hold up. Anime voicework alone literally does not pay well enough to live off anymore. There are multiple VAs on record openly stating this, and the general theme to be picked up is that high licensing fees + declining sales = not enough bacon for the talent anymore.
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Jun 6, 2013 01:41
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Even though its not exactly a masterpiece of editing, this is still one of my favorite eva fanvideos because of the particular contrast.Gaseous Snake posted:I can almost imagine Robin Williams trying to explain to the kid how hosed up the Mass Production Eva actually is then giving up and going "just say he's a good guy who gives a gently caress" Knowing Williams, it was probably on purpose.
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Jun 9, 2013 19:24
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a kitten posted:
The perfect collection is just the first-run english release DVDs packaged as a set, whereas the Platinum collection has remastered audio, cleaned up video, and contains the Directors Cut episodes. Incidentally, for purely nostalgia reasons I've been wanting to get copies of the ADV trailers that are on all the Perfect Collection DVDs, as my first exposure to Eva was through my brother's copy of the Perfect Collection and, as a video guy, I kind of want to check out how those old-rear end trailers look with my current, more skilled and anime-sodden eyes.
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Jul 23, 2013 04:09
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a kitten posted:I was going to see if I could figure out how to do this when I realised someone probably already had, so: Oh man, these are hilarious. There are definitely a lot more on the perfect collection, though, as I specifically remember a gasaraki trailer as well as this Nadia trailer. Still a great trip down memory lane, though. quote:Soul Hunter This is the most Anime as gently caress thing I've ever seen. 
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Jul 24, 2013 01:19
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MadRhetoric posted:The English alternate universe section is the single greatest achievement of the dub. I remember thinking at the time that they actually got a different actress for Rei in that sequence because AWL was speaking normally, which sounds nothing like her Rei voice.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:00
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Interesting thing noted after watching 3.0 at otakon: in the stargazing scene, Shinji explicitly takes comfort in the ideas and concepts of insignificance and nihilism that HP Lovecraft found horrifying and communicated in his works.
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Aug 13, 2013 05:27
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Intel&Sebastian posted:My guess is that the rebuilds "point" is going to be elevating Shinji to the point where he gets to go through another loop (or more than one) while retaining memory of the last one, either showing or implying that he is on his way to Gendo/SEELE-esque manipulation of the end-game. His interactions with Kaworu seemed almost entirely focussed on telling Shinji the way to happiness is practice and repetition. I think that if they go the route of time loops then the climax will be shinji finally choosing to reject the choice of another cycle, defying the fate foreshadowed by his father (endlessly destroying himself to fight the impossible) and metaphorically achieving enlightenment to rebuild (heh) the earth as it is rather than subject mankind's souls to another tragic cycle.
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Aug 13, 2013 19:53
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Evangelion AMVs just keep coming.House Louse posted:Thsi isn't a woman, it's a middle-aged man. The sandpit's the mouth, the swing and frames are the nose and mouth. The trees are his hair and the lack of trees in the middle is his receding hairline, and the hills are a hat he's wearing to hide his baldness, or perhaps a combover. This is our only good look at Shinji's "sensei", the guy who was looking after him before he came to Tokyo-3. 
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Sep 1, 2013 06:22
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HondaCivet posted:Whew, finally finished it. Well, the series anyway, I'll get to EoE in a bit I guess. As a person suffering from depression it was pretty weird and amazing to see a lot of my same issues and thoughts presented in crazy anime form. Does EoE try to change or rewrite the ending or does it complement the existing ending well? Lemme put it this way: the series ending is when you have a moment of clarity and realize how badly your condition is hurting you, and vow to fix it. EoE is the inevitable moment a week later when your poo poo falls apart again and you feel worse than you did to begin with.
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Sep 23, 2013 20:55
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I.W.W. ATTITUDE posted:Is there anything in Rebuild 1 that diverges from the plot of episodes 1-7 in a meaningful way, or would it generally be ok to replace episodes 1-7 in a viewing order? I guess there's that one thing about humans being Lilim mentioned on this page. Oh and Unit 01 doesn't move to save Shinji from the falling debris at the very beginning.. I think. Anything else? Personally my only real complaint with rebuild 1 compared to the series is that you see berserk unit 01 tear into sachiel directly after shinji gets his rear end kicked as opposed to being a flashback, as seeing the aftermath and the rest of the casts reaction to shinji before seeing the actual fight is an excellent buildup to the "oh god what the gently caress"-ness of a berserk Eva.
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Nov 8, 2013 05:58
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trucutru posted:"Sorry Shinji, you may not believe this but 14 years have passed since that day. We have a lot of things to talk about but right now is not the time, we're being attacked. Please trust me and wait a bit" So basically your grievance with 3.0 is that the characters did not disregard their personal biases immediately upon the movie starting to robotically act out advice from a psych 101 handbook, directly acting against all characterization they have received in past films and series in the process. I imagine you get incredibly mad when watching zombie movies, as well.
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Nov 12, 2013 21:58
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effect. This can work if done properly but in here pretty much everything that happens goes back to them being assholes, when they are supposed to be professionals. That is bad characterization.
trucutru posted:They are emotionally unstable maniacs that have managed to survive in a lovely, lovely place for more than a decade. Them handling Shinji in pretty much the worst possible way is explained by the director deliberately not giving a crap (at that moment) for characterization in order to pull a I really don't get why you think anyone on the wunder has any particular reason to give a poo poo about Shinji's well being. You do remember that nobody at NERV really liked shinji that much, right? I mean, outside of Misato, all the bridge crew really knew about him was that he was commander Ikari's weird son with brain problems that didn't follow orders that good. I kinda doubt that someone like Ibuki knows Shinji well enough to contextualize his behavior in a sympathetic light, especially after he literally ended the world as they know it, and people like her are all that's left aside from Ritsuko (who is well established as not giving a gently caress,) Asuka (who's relationship with Shinji is established as adversarial at the best of times and confused all the time) and Misato (been covered.) You basically are mad that people aren't giving Shinji the benefit of the doubt when everyone involved either has no reason to give it or giving it would contradict their established behavior.
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Nov 12, 2013 23:00
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Foul Ole Ron posted:I just finished watching 3.0 and I have to say I am impressed and I like the way they went with it. I'm going to guess that The reason everything went to poo poo was that even though Kaworu disabled Unit 01 and stopped the direct impetus of Third Impact (the Gate of Guf,) A) The partial impact was still enough to cause catastrophic environmental changes that probably killed thousands, if not millions of people on their own, and/or B) Even though Unit 01 had been stopped it was still active long enough to wake up Lilith or catalyze some sort of reaction that Gendo/SEELE were able to make use of that would have otherwise not happened, necessitating the quick refit of unit 06 and the lancing of GNR. Basically I don't necessarily consider it a "plot hole" because Impacts are inherently confusing events that have multiple stages and interconnecting parts, as well as several different triggers. The important part to understand is 3.0 flat out would not have happened if Shinji hadn't kickstarted 3rd impact, either directly or indirectly.
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Nov 20, 2013 02:33
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I.W.W. ATTITUDE posted:
I think it was Tuxedo who did a writeup comparing Shinji's arc to the tale of oedipus, and how a lot of the events in 3.0 are perfectly in line with the nature of a Greek tragedy?
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Nov 20, 2013 03:31
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It wouldn't be evangelion without there being some sort of dubbing-related clusterfuck involved, would it?
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Nov 24, 2013 20:06
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House Louse posted:*Eva trivia: The vocal track includes the berserk Evas' roaring, which ADV therefore had to redub. Which is a drat shame, because instead of replicating the method by which the roars were made (recording Megumi Hayashibara screaming and then pitching it down) they just inserted some canned siren soundbytes for the Death:Rebirth movie.
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Nov 24, 2013 22:48
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Paracelsus posted:
I'm fairly certain that's the way its always been done, since the example showing it to me (a youtube video that I can't find anymore) was of unit 01 going berserk on Zeruel. From what I can tell of my copies of the episodes, the dub team tried on at least a couple occasions to rip the japanese audio and splice it into the english dub track.
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Nov 25, 2013 02:26
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Robotnik Nudes posted:That's fuckin' great. I mentioned over in CineD once that in a lot of ways Anno is very similar to Quentin Tarantino, and just like Tarantino its an utter fools game to try and analyze Evangelion without a stable understanding of preceding works in its genre, because you are missing so much in the way of allusions and references.
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Feb 21, 2014 15:26
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Wachter posted:For me, that was always the biggest "religious controversy" in Evangelion. Never mind all the co-opted Judeo-Christian symbolism - the human soul is something that can be quantified and digitized. Its not so much that you can quantify the soul as it is that NERV's whole schtick is that they try to categorize and box poo poo that cannot really be categorized and boxed. It's no coincidence that a lot of the technobabble and diegetic explanations either don't hold up or are actively contradicted by later events. Leliel is a good example, Ritsuko cooks up some bullshit technological explanation that involves a misunderstanding of a Dirac sea because she refuses to admit that Leliel is a living shadow that eats things and she does not have the knowledge or context to explain that poo poo. Nobody in the series that tries to talk about souls knows what the gently caress they're talking about except maybe Yui, which is why all the rules people put down for them end up being broken all the time. Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 17:05
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Pretty much my biggest problem with Rebuild is that they dropped a lot of the Cronenberg-esque body horrorness of the Evas in exchange for slick modernistic stuff. I can sort of see a narrative reason for it if you interpret Rebuild as a reaction to Millenial japanese sci-fi in the wake of Eva, but on a purely superficial level they took out one of my favorite things.
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May 11, 2014 21:03
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Squallege posted:Despite the story going off the rails and into a ditch with teeth I still really liked 3.33. Maybe if you liked it in spite of a concerted effort not to, you should reconsider whether or not it was actually "bad."
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May 12, 2014 03:09
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SALT CURES HAM posted:Honestly, I'm mostly speaking in the sense of holy gently caress EVA-01 looks scary like that. Fun fact: Unit 01's eyes follow the camera through that whole scene
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May 15, 2014 14:38
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As far as I'm aware every time someone's leaked a Rebuild its been a camrip, not a copied screener.
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May 28, 2014 02:33
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My dream-casting for years has been that they get Javier Botet to do mo-cap for any Eva movie, because he actually has the same sort of hosed lanky proportions the evangelions all have. I mean, it'll end up being Serkis because that gently caress always does the high profile stuff, but still.
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May 28, 2014 21:05
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Its not that Shinjis development is arbitrarily reset so much as every time he takes a step someone yanks the rug out from under him, and anyone whose been in an abusive situation understands that when you're surrounded by broken people they will do anything to pull you back down if you start raising yourself up.
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Jul 16, 2014 17:30
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DrPop posted:Re: the censors. Woah, really? My spotty knowledge from 10 years ago about why the TV show ended the way it did (i.e. in a very minimalist, not-actually-ending way) tells me "mostly budget." Was censorship more of an issue, or was it just a huge combination of things overall? The reason the last two episodes are so minimalist is because their plans got shot down so late they didnt have time to make a proper ending. By all accounts the last two episodes would have involved a gas attack on NERV HQ, which is what set the censors off since, you know, there was a major terrorist attack in Japan around the time NGE was airing that involved sarin gas in the Tokyo subways.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:37
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