Canadian Politics Megathread: That is simply not Trudeau

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canadian Politics Megathread: That is simply not Trudeau

«‹›675 »

Geoid: Oct 18, 2005; Just Add Water

Lexicon posted:

I have no stats to hand, but I call total bullshit on this, at least with respect to BC. Are you seriously suggesting that BC has more French speakers than Mandarin/Cantonese/Hindi?

I accept the shenanigans calls. I must've read it in some Saskatchewan! pamphlet published for the Canadian Centennial year.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 05:05

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 20, 2024 04:17

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

JayMax posted:

In surprising news, here's a story on good urban planning:

That is pretty cool. Both groups could be considered to be fairly insular, so it's nice them create a point of contact between the two communities.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 05:34

The Dark One: Aug 19, 2005; I'm your friend and I'm not going to just stand by and let you do this!

Raenir Salazar posted:

For content, anyone read Thomas Schnurmacher? On the one hand I agree with the positions in the book ("Canada is not a real country") but I find the way he says makes me uncomfortable, like a Canadian Orson Scott Card in the way he attributes ill-intent intent to people he doesn't like.

Tommy is the right-wing blowhard every News-Talk radio station seems obligated to carry. I don't put too much stock into his diatribes, though, since they feel more like posturing than actual ill will. Not that that makes him any better of a person.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 07:29

Pinterest Mom: Jun 9, 2009

This interview with E-May is just... :allears:

quote:

Elizabeth May scans the menu for something she likes. But all she sees is a bunch of poisoned fish, so she settles on the crispy goat cheese salad.

�It�s not organic goat cheese but I�m prepared to compromise from time to time,� says May.
[...]
I make the mistake of ordering shrimp on my quinoa risotto, which I thought would be an eco-friendly May-approved choice.

It�s not.

�This is the worst. I�m trying to change the Parliamentary dining room,� she says.

�The shrimp is farmed and the farmed shrimp is from Thailand so it means they slaughtered a Mangrove forest to get at it,� she says. At the end of the meal, she launches into a six-minute monologue about the Mangroves that continues until my tape recorder runs out.

And then she calls Harper "not Canadian", which I'm sure she thinks is helpful.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 15:06

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Identifying Harper with American politics loudly and often DOES help.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 15:31

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

I think its getting plausible to speculate that Harper might not run again in 2015. Its absolutely too soon to make any predictions, but it looks like at least one prominent Conservative with leadership ambitions is keeping his powder dry.

The Toronto Star posted:

OTTAWA�When times get tough for Stephen Harper, he usually turns to his three loyal horsemen.

If the Prime Minister is not in the daily question period, he has confidence and a comfort level if Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird, Heritage Minister James Moore or Immigration Minister Jason Kenney is there to cross swords with opposition leader Tom Mulcair and Liberal leader Justin Trudeau.

But with the temperature turned up in Ottawa over the past two weeks, one of the horsemen has not saddled up.
In Harper�s absence from the daily question period since the Nigel Wright-Mike Duffy scandal erupted, Baird has been on his feet to parry opposition attacks 67 times over three days of Harper�s absence.
Moore has been up 64 times over three different days.

Kenney has been silent and that is more than an inside Ottawa curiosity.

With more open talk in Ottawa whether Harper will lead his party into one more election � talk that right now remains speculation � the performance of this trio in the Senate spending scandal bears scrutiny.

Baird is Harper�s top go-to guy. He enjoys the battle, he delivers the counterattack lines with aplomb and, most notably, he harbours no leadership ambitions.

Moore, the fluently bilingual British Columbian, has played his role as loyal combatant, to mixed results.
He is believed to harbour leadership aspirations and has done those aspirations no favour by doing Harper�s bidding on a scandal that has no upside for anyone playing defence.

But Kenney, on the short list of anyone�s potential leadership aspirants, has so far escaped with none of the Duffy-Wright gum stuck to his shoe.

He is also the most powerful of the trio, with deeper party roots and a better gauge of what the party faithful believes than any minister.

The immigration minister is a product of the old Reform base, is a former president of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation and the only one of the three to represent an Alberta riding, where Conservative MPs are getting an earful from supporters who expected more accountability and vigilance over their tax money.

His spokesperson Ana Curic maintains Kenney has simply not been asked to take his turn in the pit, but he would agree if asked.

There has been no explanation, however, why Kenney has not been asked, other than Harper�s office saying the prime minister usually goes to Baird and Moore first because Kenney is often travelling.

Harper turns to the trio predominantly as his stand-in because of their loyalty, their tenacity and their quick wit, but there is one other crucial criterion.

He or she must be comfortable with the message.

One day this week, Kenney sat in the front bench, his eyes glued to his BlackBerry, refusing to stand or applaud the Baird counterattacks from his colleagues.

His staff say he is so busy, he often uses question period as a time to catch up on his work, so nothing should be read into that.

Tuesday, with his boss back in the House, he was as animated as any on the front bench, rising to his feet as Harper tried to blunt questions from Mulcair and Trudeau.

Any of the ministers can decline the request to stand in for the prime minister, but it is usually only declined if the minister is out of town.

Rare would be the minister who would refuse because of lack of comfort with the message.

But Kenney is a smart politician, a man who knows when to try to jump in front of a crowd, or when to run for cover.
The wheels are falling off the Conservative bus as it heads for the summer break.

The benefactor of the extraordinary Conservative turmoil of recent days is Mulcair, who has had arguably his best two weeks since becoming party leader in 2012.

He has more than a metaphorical spring in his step. He actually cut a bit of a dance step while meeting reporters in the Commons foyer Tuesday.

But Mulcair must enjoy it while he can.

He will get, at best, two more days to confront Harper. The prime minister will not be in the Commons Friday or Monday and next Tuesday he heads to Europe for the G8 summit.

Until the summer break, the best way for a powerful conservative to come out of this unscathed is to be outside the party.

The next best way is to keep his or her mouth shut. Kenney wasn�t available to talk about the Nigel Wright affair Tuesday, his office said.

Kafka Esq. posted:

Identifying Harper with American politics loudly and often DOES help.

Yeah, its something the NDP could have been doing in 2006 instead of focusing on bringing down a government that had just agreed to implement a national daycare system.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 15:41

mr. unhsib: Sep 19, 2003; I hate you all.

Kafka Esq. posted:

Identifying Harper with American politics loudly and often DOES help.

Sure but when you're an American-born anti-abortionist trying to make it as a progressive politician in Canada, it's *probably* counterproductive.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 16:06

mr. unhsib: Sep 19, 2003; I hate you all.

Helsing posted:

Yeah, its something the NDP could have been doing in 2006 instead of focusing on bringing down a government that had just agreed to implement a national daycare system.

Yep. I am so disillusioned with the NDP these days.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 16:07

Political Whores: Feb 13, 2012

mr. unhsib posted:

Sure but when you're an American-born anti-abortionist trying to make it as a progressive politician in Canada, it's *probably* counterproductive.

Is May anti-abortion? I'll admit I haven't payed that much attention to her past prior to her Sierra Club time, but I don't recall her saying anything like this.

Political Whores fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jun 5, 2013

# ? Jun 5, 2013 16:33

Pinterest Mom: Jun 9, 2009

May is anti-abortion in her personal life, in that she wouldn't get an abortion herself and would try to discourage a friend from seeking one. She's pro-choice as a matter of policy.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 16:36

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Pinterest Mom posted:

May is anti-abortion in her personal life, in that she wouldn't get an abortion herself and would try to discourage a friend from seeking one. She's pro-choice as a matter of policy.

~~I suspect that statement describes just about everyone who isn't a fanatical pro-lifer.~~

This is actually far from 100% true, now that the words have left my keyboard. It likely describes a huge portion of the population, is more what I mean.

Lexicon fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jun 5, 2013

# ? Jun 5, 2013 16:49

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Lexicon posted:

I suspect that statement describes just about everyone who isn't a fanatical pro-lifer.

It actually describes pretty much no one - "the only moral abortion is my abortion" is a real thing.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 16:50

HackensackBackpack: Aug 20, 2007; Who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for your money?

Lexicon posted:

I suspect that statement describes just about everyone who isn't a fanatical pro-lifer.

Whereas some fanatical pro-lifers will have abortions of their own, or let their daughters have them, but that's different and you wouldn't understand.

And then call the doctor a murderer on the way out.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 16:51

Arabidopsis: Apr 25, 2007; A model organism

Pinterest Mom posted:

This interview with E-May is just...

And then she calls Harper "not Canadian", which I'm sure she thinks is helpful.

Hold on, your implications here are as full of poo poo as the article itself. This is a smear piece, pure and simple. Name ONE loving thing she said that was unreasonable. The only thing that makes May sound like an rear end in a top hat here is the editorializing of this hack journalist. Let's review the accusations:

1) May is vocal about choosing sustainable food when possible

2) May tried to educate the reporter about why tropical shrimp farming is incredibly destructive. It loving is. This is not a joke, and May is 100% correct - an incredible area of mangroves are cleared every year to make way for these farms. This destroys biodiversity, but it also kills people. The tsunami in Burma a while back killed scores of people, and analyses suggested that part of the reason for this was the lack of mangroves to absorb some of the wave energy.

3) May spoke for six minutes about shrimp. Well gently caress you very much, reporter, it's a nuanced, complex problem, and maybe if you actually listened you could have learned something.

4) Implication: May knows everyone at a fancy restaurant because she's a LATTE LIBERAL!!! Maybe she's just loving personable - most non shut-ins tend to get to know people when they frequent a business.

5) Harper has brought hostile, Republican-style politics to the Canadian federal system, something she sees as un-Canadian. THIS IS A COMPLETELY FAIR OPINION TO HAVE!

Seriously, you need to be more careful with stuff like this - you bought into the reporter's bullshit hook, line, and sinker.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 17:20

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

Pinterest Mom posted:

This interview with E-May is just...

This just looks like "Green Politician Says Things About Environment". Are you critiquing her ability to create good talking-points for the press?

e: beaten in a comprehensive manner

# ? Jun 5, 2013 17:29

Ceciltron: Jan 11, 2007; Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!; Pillbug

I think one of the nuance elements about May's interview is that there is a time, and a place, for eco-talks about shrimp. 6 minutes, in a short lunch with a reporter, is a huge chunk of time that could be spent otherwise on a subject that can be summed up fairly decently in a few.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 17:30

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Ceciltron posted:

I think one of the nuance elements about May's interview is that there is a time, and a place, for eco-talks about shrimp. 6 minutes, in a short lunch with a reporter, is a huge chunk of time that could be spent otherwise on a subject that can be summed up fairly decently in a few.

"Eco-talks" about an issue which, as said above, may result in people dying and she is clearly passionate about.

Let's get to "real-talks" about how May will avoid destroying the economy with her reckless eco-saving, or maybe a $90K cheque that is getting more than enough screen time? Rob Ford's crack? What else should the sole Green Party MP talk about than things being ignored by everyone else in the horse race?

# ? Jun 5, 2013 17:38

Arabidopsis: Apr 25, 2007; A model organism

Ceciltron posted:

I think one of the nuance elements about May's interview is that there is a time, and a place, for eco-talks about shrimp. 6 minutes, in a short lunch with a reporter, is a huge chunk of time that could be spent otherwise on a subject that can be summed up fairly decently in a few.

The reporter brought up sustainability and she addressed it, thoroughly. Then when she tried to talk about Harper the reporter STILL smeared her and took her points out of context.

This is a smear job, plain and simple. If someone was interviewing Harper and he carried on for 20 minutes about why tax cuts are important, the reporter would talk about how he is a sage leader brimming with wisdom.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 17:40

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

We sometimes think of "fringe" parties as crazy dingbats but sometimes they serve a role in representing interests ignored by the big-tent polities; which in this case she has every right and obligation to do so. What important issue should she have been speaking about that isn't already covered by the other parties?

# ? Jun 5, 2013 17:43

Blade_of_tyshalle: Jul 12, 2009; If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

Taking it a little personally aren't you, ~~Elizabeth~~ Arabidopsis?

# ? Jun 5, 2013 17:44

Ceciltron: Jan 11, 2007; Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!; Pillbug

Raenir Salazar posted:

We sometimes think of "fringe" parties as crazy dingbats but sometimes they serve a role in representing interests ignored by the big-tent polities; which in this case she has every right and obligation to do so. What important issue should she have been speaking about that isn't already covered by the other parties?

I think complaining about Thai Mangrove Swamps is a bit useless when you could instead talk about, say, Canadian environmental destruction. She's running for office here, after all.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 17:45

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

Ceciltron posted:

I think complaining about Thai Mangrove Swamps is a bit useless when you could instead talk about, say, Canadian environmental destruction. She's running for office here, after all.

Except you could argue it is a Canadian concern in the same way cutting down Brazilian rainforests could be a Canadian/World concern.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 17:48

Guy DeBorgore: Apr 6, 1994; Catnip is the opiate of the masses; Soiled Meat

If you actually read the whole article instead of cherry-picking, May comes off just fine. She gets a few big paragraph-long quotes criticizing Stephen Harper and talking about herself at the same time, which I'm sure is why she agreed to the lunch in the first place.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 17:53

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Elizabeth May is pro-choice (as policy) the same way Dennis Kucinich is, in that she rapidly evolved to that position as a political expedient once she developed national ambitions.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 18:01

Persona non grata: Apr 25, 2010

Arabidopsis posted:

May tried to educate the reporter about why tropical shrimp farming is incredibly destructive.

Do you like it when people "try to educate" you?

# ? Jun 5, 2013 18:47

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Oh CPAC, well done in half muting a conservative MP and playing clown horn noises during member statements. Way to gently caress it up.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 19:14

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Persona non grata posted:

Do you like it when people "try to educate" you?

Hell yeah, I love learning poo poo, specially if the person educating me really knows their poo poo. I loving hate May and the green party but she did nothing wrong in her interview and she's 100% right about shrimp, stop eating that poo poo you idiots.

If she didn't explain in detail the reporter would have said something like "May told me not to eat shrimp but didn't back up why." and people would would going on about that instead.

\/\/ I don't know, ask Elizabeth May!

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jun 5, 2013

# ? Jun 5, 2013 19:15

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Baronjutter posted:

Hell yeah, I love learning poo poo, specially if the person educating me really knows their poo poo. I loving hate May and the green party but she did nothing wrong in her interview and she's 100% right about shrimp, stop eating that poo poo you idiots.

Can I still eat Nova Scotian scallops?

# ? Jun 5, 2013 19:18

ZeeBoi: Jan 17, 2001

bunnyofdoom posted:

Oh CPAC, well done in half muting a conservative MP and playing clown horn noises during member statements. Way to gently caress it up.

I don't care if this wasn't intentional, bit I think this needs to happen more often.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 19:26

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Goddamn Thomas "Phoenix Wright" Mulcair just objectioned to Harper's mistepped in QP so hard I'm hearing the cornered music.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 19:29

quaint bucket: Nov 29, 2007

I'm gonna eat some shrimp scampi tonight and I'm going to enjoy the tears of Thailand.

I get what she's trying to say and I don't refute that it is an issue (the mangroves) but it's not applicable to Canada and her time could have been better spent increasing awareness of her party, her policies, and issues IN Canada.

Pretty sure imposing a trade embargo* on Thailand to get their poo poo in order isn't going to appeal to Canadians.

*she did not say this, don't lose your poo poo.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 19:32

SpannerX: Apr 26, 2010; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.; Fun Shoe

bunnyofdoom posted:

Can I still eat Nova Scotian scallops?

It's the clams you have to worry about. That method of fishing has destroyed plenty of fish habitat with their giant vacuums. Then they freeze the works, send it to China to be processed, and we get it back. It makes so much sense to me.
Worse than draggers were.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 19:35

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Marc Garneau :allears:

But, I love how the entire house burst in laughter at Polliver claiming Conservatives acted in good faith with regards to elections Canada.

Also, the candidates are holding fuckawesome events to clear their leadership debts. Like Marc's last night.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 19:38

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

quaint bucket posted:

I'm gonna eat some shrimp scampi tonight and I'm going to enjoy the tears of Thailand.

I get what she's trying to say and I don't refute that it is an issue (the mangroves) but it's not applicable to Canada and her time could have been better spent increasing awareness of her party, her policies, and issues IN Canada.

Pretty sure imposing a trade embargo* on Thailand to get their poo poo in order isn't going to appeal to Canadians.

*she did not say this, don't lose your poo poo.

She's not Stephen Harper, Mulcair or Trudeau, she doesn't need to have a messaging crew making sure she hits the exact Canadian G-spots every time she speaks.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 19:40

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Kafka Esq. posted:

She's not Stephen Harper, Mulcair or Trudeau, she doesn't need to have a messaging crew making sure she hits the exact Canadian G-spots every time she speaks.

Yeah. Fun Fact. Apparently Trudeau doesn't have one either.

HE loving needs one.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 19:41

Twiin: Nov 11, 2003; King of Suck!

bunnyofdoom posted:

Yeah. Fun Fact. Apparently Trudeau doesn't have one either.

HE loving needs one.

WE HAVE CROWDSOURCED ARGLE BARGLE BARGLE

# ? Jun 5, 2013 19:52

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Twiin posted:

WE HAVE CROWDSOURCED ARGLE BARGLE BARGLE

Hey, I worked very hard entering those responses, and editing out all the motherfuckers.

But seriously, at least we're actually trying to get Canadians involved in QP, by asking questions they want asked.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 19:55

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,

Without endorsing the journalist's particular take on the interview, I will say that Elizabeth May's environmental concerns are valid, but they're an uphill struggle already and her approach isn't very effective at winning converts or attention for those issues.

A politician's whole job, from the Prime Minister down to the lowliest of the low, is to sell ideas to the general public. Saying something that's true but that requires people to come to you rather than bringing your message to them in an effective way does that cause a disservice. That a casual meeting with a reporter even can be turned into a lazy "what an eco-nut, am I right?"-toned article is a messaging failure that only further marginalizes May and the Greens.

One interview isn't exactly a big deal, but for environmentalism as a whole that's always been the PR challenge.

# ? Jun 5, 2013 20:08

Paper Jam Dipper: Jul 14, 2007; by XyloJW

bunnyofdoom posted:

Goddamn Thomas "Phoenix Wright" Mulcair just objectioned to Harper's mistepped in QP so hard I'm hearing the cornered music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdIlP488n14

# ? Jun 5, 2013 20:25

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 20, 2024 04:17

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Paper Jam Dipper posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdIlP488n14

Yup, definately put this play during the background during the next QP

# ? Jun 5, 2013 20:27

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canadian Politics Megathread: That is simply not Trudeau

«‹›675 »