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coyo7e posted:While reading Abaddon's Gate I finally had the I wasn't saying that it was. I was saying I was willing to slog through that series, which has quite a few problems, and Bakker still managed to kill any interest in continuing very quickly. quote:Is Kellhus really the protagonist? And 60 pages in was what, basically the sequence where he sublimates the drunk trapper, iirc. You didn't even meet Achamian, Cnaiur, or Esmenet, I think.. The conflicts between characters (especially around their women, which probably is a :trigger warning: for the Bakker RAPE RAPE RAPE crowd,) are what drives it, and aren't really any characters but one who's really just kind of a cipher, that far in. Cnaiur, shitbird-crazy Breaker of Men and Horses, is also the best foil for an unlikable superman that I could imagine. Around there, yeah, when I said "gently caress this stupid book." Again, you're saying that this book that I'm supposed to be interested in doesn't bother introducing any of the interesting characters or conflicts or world-building inside of the first couple chapters. You know what? The whole "oh if you keep going it'll get good" is a sign of bad writing. Bakker is a bad writer. (He's also a terrible human being, but I only found that out after realizing that his writing was terrible.)
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Oct 30, 2014 02:11
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realization that James Holden really is heavily based on Holden Cauffield - the entire utopian wanna-be rebel who seems to consistently have no awareness of what he's doing outside of desperately wanting to be a martyr/hero. At first I was like "ha ha, his name is Holden!" and then in every novel he does the same poo poo and never really seems to learn from it, while everyone around him is telling him to grow the gently caress up.
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It might be crazy but I feel like people gotta do more than just say dumb, misguided things on the internet to be considered a "terrible human being".
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Oct 30, 2014 02:21
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coyo7e posted:While reading Abaddon's Gate I finally had the As much as I may not like or agree with Bakker's biological/psychological in-text expositions, the primary failure of his books is that large sections of his books are downright unpleasant to slog through, and the payoff doesn't justify reading hundreds of pages of horrible people doing horrible things to each other. I stuck it out long enough to understand that Bakker's payoffs are usually either unpleasant in and of themselves or not interesting enough to justify what I had to go through to get there. I consider myself to have a high tolerance for unpleasantness, and I have gotten through some incredibly graphic and disturbing stuff and been glad for the experience, even though I may not gave necessarily enjoyed the process. That said, Bakker's stuff just isn't worth it. He's not a bad writer from a technical standpoint, and he does have some really great world building, which is what kept me going as long as I did. However, he feels like a second-rate Stephen Donaldson, but with all the negatives taken to 11 and much less interesting philosophical questions being explored.
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Oct 30, 2014 02:33
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Did we read the same Donaldson? Because I do not remember anything that could be considered an interesting philosophical question even in the loosest sense.
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Oct 30, 2014 02:34
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Cardiovorax posted:Did we read the same Donaldson? Because I do not remember anything that could be considered an interesting philosophical question even in the loosest sense.
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Oct 30, 2014 02:40
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if I never heard of Bakker before, I'd definitely be reading him just by peoples' reactions itt, homeboy gotta be doing something right with how passive-aggressive and butthurt people get
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Oct 30, 2014 03:31
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Just started reading(and nearly finished with) Brandon Sanderson's The Way of Kings and it has really surprised me how good it is. Really the only fantasy book I've read in years other than Malazan and Song of Ice and Fire. I like all the world building. Roshar is a really loving weird place and reminds me a bit of Morrowind in that regard. I was expecting just standard knights and medieval stuff in another pseudo European setting. I don't think any of the cultures in Roshar correspond with Western Europeans in culture or appearance. I think the Alethi are the closest culturally but they're tan and dark haired. Does it ever get around to explaining how the light eyes end up as the social elites and rulers?
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Oct 30, 2014 05:27
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Phanatic posted:Especially when you realize you're rooting for the violent psychopathic rapist. That'd be some pretty amazing character development if it weren't for the three words at the end of your sentence. It's still amazing, It's just that he doesn't get any credit for it. As for the writing in the Black Company, all of Cook's early stuff was written while working on a GM light truck assembly line. As in, he had a notepad and enough time between parts he had to work on to write down a short sentence or two. Amazingly enough, his output dropped after he moved to a different line. Even if you didn't like all the narrator shifts in BC, there's still Dread Empire, Shadowline, Doomwalker, the Garret Files, and a bunch of standalones to consider before writing him off.
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Oct 30, 2014 06:35
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savinhill posted:if I never heard of Bakker before, I'd definitely be reading him just by peoples' reactions itt, homeboy gotta be doing something right with how passive-aggressive and butthurt people get This is a thing that stupid people often say. I'm not saying you're necessarily stupid, just that it is the sort of thing that is often said by stupid people.
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Oct 30, 2014 07:23
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Every so often, authors that everybody can agree on are bad are, in fact, bad.
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Oct 30, 2014 07:58
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Cardiovorax posted:Did we read the same Donaldson? Because I do not remember anything that could be considered an interesting philosophical question even in the loosest sense. The entire of the First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant is based around a philosophical question that is explicitly stated in the first couple of chapters of book 1.
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Oct 30, 2014 16:50
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Chairchucker posted:This is a thing that stupid people often say. I'm not saying you're necessarily stupid, just that it is the sort of thing that is often said by stupid people. I've noticed a lot of people seem to dislike Justin Bieber. I'm definitely gonna become a Belieber.
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Oct 30, 2014 17:45
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Mustang posted:Does it ever get around to explaining how the light eyes end up as the social elites and rulers?
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Oct 30, 2014 17:59
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calandryll posted:Well apparently I'm really oblivious. 
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Oct 30, 2014 18:01
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Totally makes sense now. Going to work my way through the third one after I finish City of Stairs.
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Azathoth posted:As much as I may not like or agree with Bakker's biological/psychological in-text expositions, the primary failure of his books is that large sections of his books are downright unpleasant to slog through, and the payoff doesn't justify reading hundreds of pages of horrible people doing horrible things to each other. syphon posted:Yes. Extremely mild spoiler (it spoils more 'setting' stuff, nothing particular to the plot: The old Knights Radiant used Stormlight for their power, which had a side effect of making their eyes light. This turned into a cultural thing, where people with naturally light eyes would be viewed as 'superior'. mllaneza posted:As for the writing in the Black Company, all of Cook's early stuff was written while working on a GM light truck assembly line. As in, he had a notepad and enough time between parts he had to work on to write down a short sentence or two. Amazingly enough, his output dropped after he moved to a different line. Even if you didn't like all the narrator shifts in BC, there's still Dread Empire, Shadowline, Doomwalker, the Garret Files, and a bunch of standalones to consider before writing him off. If people can say "everyone agrees Bakker's a bad author," then I feel comfortable saying "everyone knows Glenn Cook isn't a very good writer, some people are just more prone to forgiving it." coyo7e fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 18:05
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Just to clarify, I brought up Cook as an example of how I will willingly stick with bad writing far beyond the point where I ought to give up, and I still couldn't stomach more than the first bit of Bakker. It was definitely not to say Cook is a good writer.
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Oct 30, 2014 18:55
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Cardiovorax posted:Every so often, authors that everybody can agree on are bad are, in fact, bad. Nah, he's pretty good and wrote some good books.
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Oct 30, 2014 18:58
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coyo7e posted:Spoiler: he grows up a bit in the third. Thank god, he's the only thing I can't stand about the books.
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Oct 30, 2014 19:21
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Am I the only person who got bored of the Likes of Locke Lamora? It started out interesting, but after about 10 percent of the novel I got turned off of the heist.
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Oct 31, 2014 02:22
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I finished the latest book in the Poseidon's Children series, On The Steel Breeze by Alastair Reynolds last night. I normally love Alastair Reynolds, his Revelation Space series has some of my favorite world building ever, even if the ending is complete poo poo. I figured an Alastair Reynolds book with a Pink Floyd reference in the title couldn't be lovely. I really disliked the first book in the Poseidon's Children series, Blue Remembered Earth, so I'm not sure why I thought On the Steel Breeze would be any better. I guess it's because the reviews I read said it was better. The protagonists in both books are terrible, the entire Akinya family is unlikeable and boring. The elephants make me roll my eyes every time they get brought up, calling the super intellegent elephants "Tantors" is the dumbest thing ever, and having Chiku Akinya choose to save them over 100 million people made her completely irredeemable. And that was after she watched two of her lovers die because of her own actions without ever feeling anything at all. The AI that tries to kill everyone is dumb as hell. While I respect that he included a character without gender he made them a sociopathic objectivist mass murderer who would make even Ayn Rand shake her head. On top of that the ending wasn't an ending at all. Seriously, what the gently caress Alastair Reynolds? I thought we had something. 
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Oct 31, 2014 03:07
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Jedit posted:The entire of the First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant is based around a philosophical question that is explicitly stated in the first couple of chapters of book 1.
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Oct 31, 2014 03:09
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Wooten posted:I finished the latest book in the Poseidon's Children series, On The Steel Breeze by Alastair Reynolds last night. I normally love Alastair Reynolds, his Revelation Space series has some of my favorite world building ever, even if the ending is complete poo poo. I figured an Alastair Reynolds book with a Pink Floyd reference in the title couldn't be lovely. I really disliked the first book in the Poseidon's Children series, Blue Remembered Earth, so I'm not sure why I thought On the Steel Breeze would be any better. I guess it's because the reviews I read said it was better. The protagonists in both books are terrible, the entire Akinya family is unlikeable and boring. The elephants make me roll my eyes every time they get brought up, calling the super intellegent elephants "Tantors" is the dumbest thing ever, and having Chiku Akinya choose to save them over 100 million people made her completely irredeemable. And that was after she watched two of her lovers die because of her own actions without ever feeling anything at all. The AI that tries to kill everyone is dumb as hell. While I respect that he included a character without gender he made them a sociopathic objectivist mass murderer who would make even Ayn Rand shake her head. On top of that the ending wasn't an ending at all. Seriously, what the gently caress Alastair Reynolds? I thought we had something. If you are thinking Alastair Reynolds' writing talent is petering out, go read the latest short story he wrote, "The Last Log of the Lachrimosa". It's 5 star stuff.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:01
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Wooten posted:I finished the latest book in the Poseidon's Children series, On The Steel Breeze by Alastair Reynolds last night. I normally love Alastair Reynolds, his Revelation Space series has some of my favorite world building ever, even if the ending is complete poo poo. I figured an Alastair Reynolds book with a Pink Floyd reference in the title couldn't be lovely. I really disliked the first book in the Poseidon's Children series, Blue Remembered Earth, so I'm not sure why I thought On the Steel Breeze would be any better. I guess it's because the reviews I read said it was better. The protagonists in both books are terrible, the entire Akinya family is unlikeable and boring. The elephants make me roll my eyes every time they get brought up, calling the super intellegent elephants "Tantors" is the dumbest thing ever, and having Chiku Akinya choose to save them over 100 million people made her completely irredeemable. And that was after she watched two of her lovers die because of her own actions without ever feeling anything at all. The AI that tries to kill everyone is dumb as hell. While I respect that he included a character without gender he made them a sociopathic objectivist mass murderer who would make even Ayn Rand shake her head. On top of that the ending wasn't an ending at all. Seriously, what the gently caress Alastair Reynolds? I thought we had something.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:15
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Less Fat Luke posted:Well... yeah I agree mostly but she didn't choose elephants over 100 million people. She had to pick a ship to die and chose one without the elephants. She says that the other ships have more people on them, millions more, but she didn't want to destroy the elephants. 100 million is an exaggeration but we never get told actual numbers.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:21
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e: nm
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Oct 31, 2014 04:30
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Wooten posted:She says that the other ships have more people on them, millions more, but she didn't want to destroy the elephants. 100 million is an exaggeration but we never get told actual numbers.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:37
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http://www.literature-map.com/ Helps show authors who write like other authors, so it should help you discover some new reads you might dig 
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Oct 31, 2014 18:11
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:http://www.literature-map.com/
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Oct 31, 2014 18:44
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Forgall posted:It thinks Mieville writes like Stross and Greg Egan writes like Catherynne Valente so uhhh I think it's more of a "readers of X also read Y", but still.
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Oct 31, 2014 20:48
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Yeah "writes like" is not the correct description for what that website is mapping.
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Oct 31, 2014 20:58
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How can you tell? I didn't see a 'how this works' button anywhere. It could well be vocabulary or ngram similarity/overlap.
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Oct 31, 2014 21:04
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a foolish pianist posted:How can you tell? I didn't see a 'how this works' button anywhere. It could well be vocabulary or ngram similarity/overlap. Bottom left corner: quote:China Mieville
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Oct 31, 2014 21:19
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Wooten posted:I recently read Cryptonomicon and Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson. I found Cryptonomicon to be pretty boring throughout and I had trouble really identifying with the neck bearded protagonist on a quest to create a gold backed bit coin like cryptocurrency. On the other hand I did find the WWII story line entertaining, the book would have sucked a lot without it. I actually didn't mind most of the tangents Stephenson goes off on in the book and there's a ton of interesting stuff about cryptography. Before you read anything else anyone told you to read, check out The Diamond Age by Stephensnon, which is loosely tied into Snow crash but takes place a few decades later. I think it's way better than Snow Crash by a large margin. Then you should read The Baroque Cycle. E: The Baroque Cycle is also loosely tied in to Cryptonomicon because the main characters come from the same families. regularizer fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Nov 1, 2014 |
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Nov 1, 2014 00:10
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The Baroque Cycle and Jack Shaftoe are awesome but it's tedious when he spends page after page giving extremely detailed descriptions of London and all its streets and whatnot. It's really the only place in the books that he does that to, iirc.
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Nov 1, 2014 00:42
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regularizer posted:Before you read anything else anyone told you to read, check out The Diamond Age by Stephensnon, which is loosely tied into Snow crash but takes place a few decades later. I think it's way better than Snow Crash by a large margin. Then you should read The Baroque Cycle. Cryptonomicon is a weird and fun book, but it's really more of a setup for the Baroque Cycle. I went back to reading it after getting through the first couple of barque cycle books and it really made so much more sense what he was trying to do, when I was able to go "oh! EVERYONE in this novel is a descendant of just about every fictional character in this later series! Now it's kind of funny and cool to see the similarities and differences between the ancestors and their future "offpsring"!
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Nov 1, 2014 00:43
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:http://www.literature-map.com/ I put in Haruki Murakami and I think it's closer to a "people who like this author also like" thing than particular writing styles. Not a terrible tool but the goal feels different than intended!
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Nov 1, 2014 00:46
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Kalman posted:Bruce Bethke's Headcrash might be up your alley. I love you for bringing this book up. You might be the only other person I've ever heard of who has read it. I need me some infonuggets and khyberpunks. I'd also like to use this post to rehype for the Daniel Faust urban fantasy series by Craig Schaefer. The conclusion of the first trilogy just came out a month ago or so. It starts with "The Long Way Down" and is about a sorcerer who makes a living pulling heists who suddenly gets embroiled in the upcoming apocalypse. Victorkm fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Nov 1, 2014 |
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Nov 1, 2014 04:19
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regularizer posted:Before you read anything else anyone told you to read, check out The Diamond Age by Stephensnon, which is loosely tied into Snow crash but takes place a few decades later. I think it's way better than Snow Crash by a large margin. Then you should read The Baroque Cycle. Thanks I will definitely check out Diamond Age, and eventually The Baroque Cycle. I just picked up Altered Carbon based on the advice of this thread and it's pretty good so far. coyo7e posted:I hope the guy you responded to read Snow Crash first - at least he would've been able to go in expecting Stephenson's Douglas-Adams-with-aspergers tangential style. I went into Cryptonomicon completely blind having never read a Stephenson book. It starts going onto his signature tangents right away so I had a chance to turn back. I actually really love his style. Probably means I register on the spectrum.
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Nov 1, 2014 17:26
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Just finished up The Prophecy Con. It was pretty good. Solid sequel to The Palace Job. Only thing that kinda stood out (other than the mental images of man on dragon sex that I did not need)was basically how Diz set up all gay relationships. I don't think she set up a single straight couple in the book. Just struck me as odd. I'd definitely recommend it if you liked The Palace Job. Well worth the cash.
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Nov 2, 2014 14:49
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I found a copy of Steven Erikson's newest book 'Willful Child' that made it's way onto shelves early. It starts as a straight up satire of classic Trek and blossoms into something more than that. The pace is blistering and the setting is wonderfully absurd. If you're at all into Star Trek or Futurama, or you're just in the mood for a light-hearted space romp, I couldn't recommend it enough.
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Nov 2, 2014 21:55
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