|
OB_Juan posted:I guess it depends on the type of game your group plays. If that works where you're playing, cool. The Illusionist gimmick was making illusions and trying to fake their damage on enemies with the different stun spells. Had Focused Concentration and a bunch of Sustaining Foci to help. Apparently it wasn't such a good idea. OB_Juan posted:Which do you want to play? Like I said, I'd kinda like to try a Rigger/Street Samurai combo, someone who can either use drones or fight directly with drone backup. What can I say? Robot Masterminds were awesome in City of Villains.
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 21:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 07:36 |
|
|
BenRGamer posted:fight directly with drone backup. That ain't gonna work without a dedicated security decker, because while you're engaged in glorious combat, their tech guy is putting markers all over everything and is about to spoof a command to shoot you with your own drones. Unless you're running security for your drones (which means being in the matrix) drones are very, very vulnerable. If you want to just be a rigger and your own security decker, that's not even super hard. Max logic, consider taking 'even higher logic' and slap that +2 logic thingamie on top. Grab some ranks in Pilot (favored drone type) and then grab and equip, oh, six drones, buy a perception autosoft, a gunnery autosoft for each type of gun you use, and at least one rotodrone with a grenade launcher. Take a moderate deck and dump firewall (your RCC provides this) and stealth, because you won't be infiltrating other's computers. Grab only combat programs---you can pick up others once you're in play and get some money, so your character has room to grow quickly, which is nice. Don't forget to put smartlinks on everything and to buy a rigger command console, and the rest of the build's your own.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 21:50
|
|
|
Control rig reflexes body and I guess agi as high as you can. Get your rcc. Wired reflexes. Specialize in a single drone so as to not spread points on skills to thin. You will be fine in a fight, just armor up via armor boosted cyber hands. Also Mogol the enemy decker will have a bitch of a time doing that because of the firewall on your rcc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 21:50
|
|
|
Be sure to take Gunner skill. Also a flydrone or three, they're fun.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 21:52
|
|
|
gently caress it, I will just build a decent one real quick.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 21:53
|
|
|
dirtycajun posted:
You've still gotta keep an eye on 'em, which means being in the matrix and not punching baddies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 21:55
|
|
|
For your first character it's probably a good idea to not do a crazy idea like an illusionist mage or drone rigger. Stick with "guy with gun" until you know how the game works, otherwise your team will hate you because you'll be bogging the game down with too many "let me check the book, I have no idea how to do this" moments.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 21:59
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:You've still gotta keep an eye on 'em, which means being in the matrix and not punching baddies. You don't have to keep an eye on them, your firewall will be pretty drat good. Shoot poo poo every day. Drones providing suppressive fire is pretty great while I am thinking about it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 21:59
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:You've still gotta keep an eye on 'em, which means being in the matrix and not punching baddies. That's what augmented reality is for. If you have the meatspace initiative to match your matrix one, like a streetsam is likely to have, you lose almost nothing for staying in AR instead of VR and can keep an eye on your matrix poo poo while you're kicking rear end.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 22:14
|
|
|
Laphroaig posted:Ok? For your game, obviously wetwork and combats are infrequent. In other games and other formats, like Shadowrun Missions, there is always 1 combat per module, and generally these things are well written so there is a variety of ways to approach a problem [...] I don't think anyone will criticize you for making a Pure Mage or Pure Decker [...] Yes, people will absolutely criticize you for a "pure decker". If the mission is a bug hunt and you have 2 agility and no combat skills, what exactly are you going to do? Or let's look at the SR4 Mission's module Something Completely Different. Scene 1: Nothing for a hacker to do. Scene 2: There are things to hack, but it doesn't matter unless the group goes completely off the rails and skips 3/4 of the module; as-written, that's a very serious risk. Scene 3: Nothing for a hacker to do. Scene 4: Nothing for a hacker to do. Scene 5: The Hacker gets a chance to shine! The session grinds to a halt while the hacker and GM try to explain the Matrix rules to the rest of the group that are all suddenly forced to deal with it. However, the scene can also be completed without a hacker. Scene 6: Nothing for a hacker to do. Scene 7: Nothing for a hacker to do. So if you can't contribute to any minigame but hack, you will spend most of the mission playing Angry Birds on your phone. How fun.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 22:24
|
|
|
Gobbeldygook posted:My games have regular combats, thanks for playing. The difference was that everyone can fight. The mage could stunbolt people or bring spirits to bear while having tolerable defenses, the rigger had steel lynx's and rotodrones with which to rain death, and I believe even the face had Improved Reflexes 2 and a combat skill at 6 by the end of the campaign. The only person who had Hardware skill was the adept, so if there was a maglock they needed to quietly crack (maglock passkey's are really unreliable), he was The Man. But if someone needed killin', well, everyone could do that. In 5e you can basically hack drat near everything BUT a spirit. Just a thought for a wireless world.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 22:42
|
|
|
Why would you run a bug hunt with absolutely nothing to hack if one of the characters in your group was a pure decker? That sort of seems like questionable mission design.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 22:47
|
|
|
dirtycajun posted:In 5e you can basically hack drat near everything BUT a spirit. Just a thought for a wireless world. When I say nothing to do, I mean nothing to do. Scene 1 is the Johnson Meet and there's nothing to do but talk. Scene 2 takes place in meatspace but nothing that's hackable affects the outcome of the run unless the group decides to derail the run. In scene 3, the the only enemies are spirits. Scenes 4, 6, and 7 take place in the metaplanes where there are no commlinks, no wireless, nothing. Scene 5 is also in the metaplanes but it's a special metaplane with stuff to hack.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 22:51
|
|
|
What skills should I really take? I see all the skills available and wind up wanting to spend way more skill points than I should. Aside from the obvious Piloting Ground/Air, Gunnery, and a couple of combat skills (probably Automatics and Unarmed). Should I take the Engineering skill group, for example? Or Cybercombat, or what? DMW45 fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Aug 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 23:02
|
|
|
Are there any reliable and good ways to commit suicide if you're captured/disabled as an awakened and can't install a cranial bomb or any other ware? Preferably not killing anyone nearby. Poison might be impossible (unless you can burn edge to auto-fail a roll or something).
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 23:05
|
|
|
This is my first pass at the combat rigging monster. Please alert me of mistakes, chances there are some in resources. There is room for lots of more crazy stuff because I didn't use much floating karma so you can feel free to make this yours however you see fit. You are not THE frontline combat guy, but you can scout via drones, provide suppressive fire, and take 19 dice pot shots with a smartlinked warhawk. Your defense is pretty great, rolling 17 dice to make shooting miss you and can willpower to 20 and still have 5 edge to survive with. Armor is not the highest because I haven't really optimized this thing but at damage resist tests at 23 dice you should be doing all right. Initiative is at 17+3d6 outside of the matrix so minimum 3 passes unless you roll 3 1's. So have at him or her. It should be fun! code:dirtycajun fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Aug 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 23:17
|
|
|
Poil posted:Are there any reliable and good ways to commit suicide if you're captured/disabled as an awakened and can't install a cranial bomb or any other ware? Preferably not killing anyone nearby. Poison might be impossible (unless you can burn edge to auto-fail a roll or something). Eh, could have a suicide pill in a false tooth if poison's not impossible? Tooth compartments don't cost any essence at all, so that should be fine.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 23:18
|
|
|
dirtycajun posted:This is my first pass at the combat rigging monster. Please alert me of mistakes, chances there are some in resources. There is room for lots of more crazy stuff because I didn't use much floating karma so you can feel free to make this yours however you see fit. You are not THE frontline combat guy, but you can scout via drones, provide suppressive fire, and take 19 dice pot shots with a smartlinked warhawk. Your defense is pretty great, rolling 17 dice to make shooting miss you and can willpower to 20 and still have 5 edge to survive with. Armor is not the highest because I haven't really optimized this thing but at damage resist tests at 23 dice you should be doing all right. Initiative is at 17+3d6 outside of the matrix so minimum 3 passes unless you roll 3 1's.  BenRGamer posted:Eh, could have a suicide pill in a false tooth if poison's not impossible? Tooth compartments don't cost any essence at all, so that should be fine. PierreTheMime posted:Astrally project and go find yourself an astral predator. If you're not a full magician then there's not much you can do if you're tied up and have a blind on. Poil fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Aug 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 23:27
|
|
|
Poil posted:Are there any reliable and good ways to commit suicide if you're captured/disabled as an awakened and can't install a cranial bomb or any other ware? Preferably not killing anyone nearby. Poison might be impossible (unless you can burn edge to auto-fail a roll or something). Astrally project and go find yourself an astral predator. If you're not a full magician then there's not much you can do if you're tied up and have a blind on.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 23:27
|
|
|
If you use that build I recommend squeezing some grenades for the alpha's in there and stick and shock ammo. I'd fix it but I think I am going to stop looking at my computer screen for a bit...Poil posted:Neat, but how do you keep and repair drones as a squatter? You use your handy toolkit. I even included it edit: oh god add a rating 6 respirator some how. Those are important... dirtycajun fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Aug 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 23:28
|
|
|
double post
dirtycajun fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Aug 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 23:29
|
|
|
Poil posted:Neat, but how do you keep and repair drones as a squatter? If you're able to cast, why not just chain cast spells until you drain yourself into a lifeless husk?
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 23:43
|
|
|
Cabbit posted:If you're able to cast, why not just chain cast spells until you drain yourself into a lifeless husk?
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 23:50
|
|
|
dirtycajun posted:So have at him or her. It should be fun! How do you have Agility 9 in one Cyberhand? I thought it was only 1 Agi per Rating, capped at 3.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 23:59
|
|
|
BenRGamer posted:How do you have Agility 9 in one Cyberhand? I thought it was only 1 Agi per Rating, capped at 3. You start at 3, add 3 to your normal cap. Then 3 more from enhancement.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 00:04
|
|
|
You can't fit 9 agility and 3 armor in a cyberhand though, sadly.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 00:47
|
|
|
Bigass Moth posted:You can't fit 9 agility and 3 armor in a cyberhand though, sadly. drat, I knew I missed a thing..
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 00:57
|
|
|
dirtycajun posted:You start at 3, add 3 to your normal cap. Then 3 more from enhancement. I mean, I know that cyberlimbs have a default 3 Str/Agi, and I know that you can get +3 from enhancements, but that's still just 6, isn't it? I dunno where the last 3 points of Agi are coming from for Agi 9, or is that just the cap on Agi? Sorry, I'm still very new to Shadowrun.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:19
|
|
|
Bigass Moth posted:1. 26 attribute points, so I guess you bought up a dump stat which you blasted me for suggesting previously. Are you incapable of seeing characters beyond stat blocks? 1) Please by all means quote where I said buying a dump stat is bad. Seriously. You're just making poo poo up now. 2)Her skills are perfectly fine. She's great at shooting, great at B&E, while standoffish she can still typically manage a conversation, she can repair almost all her own gear and use the Matrix adequately. Remember, dice pool of 3 (what I use for charisma rolls) is an average of one hit, and a dice pool of 4 allows you to buy 1 hit when in a non-stressed environment. 3) All of her negative qualities are a part of her character. She's used to the rich and carefree lifestyle so she's started getting addicted to party and clubbing drugs, and this character is rather unlikely to stay at Mild. Bad Rep is absolutely a big deal if people actually play it up. The only one I'd say is vaguely cheesy is Weak Immune System, but it's described quite literally as the thing heavily 'wared characters have, so I thought it'd be fitting for a cyber sammy. 4) Do you have aspergers in real life? My point was "you are too overspecialized and you don't need to be the best in the universe at one thing" and your response was "BUT MATHEMATICALLY...!" My point is that you aren't making real characters, and your response is "But your character sheet isn't bleeding edge optimized to my standards...!" Keep in mind, this is the character I actually play in a game. What about you? Where are your stat blocks? You talk big game but you've yet to show characters of your own. I don't see you in any games, either. Like I said. A bunch of spherical cows. Laphroaig posted:You're not at Dumpshock, we're all not the one dude at RPG.net. I've seen many characters at Missions play so far (granted I've only GM'ed 7 sessions of 5E Missions now), and so far much of the gameplay advice is toxic adversarial bullshit. So I should just ignore any and all character flaws and consistently lob easy hits to the players and never challenge them, otherwise I'm being OH NO ADVERSARIAL! Absurd. If you make a character with giant glaring weaknesses, guess what? That's a part of your character. Charisma 1 is no less off limits then Strength 10. In both cases you are making a statement about your character. "I am very good at being a giant mass of muscle - I want to use this in game." "I am literally incapable of talking to people coherently - this should also come up in game." Mystic Mongol posted:Logic 3 and Charisma 3 are not meaningfully better than Logic 1 and Charisma 1. Why do people have to buy them up? If you have Charisma 1 and no social dice you are literally incapable of talking coherently. If you have Logic 3 and no tech skill dice, you are literally incapable of using electronics. What kind of character is that? You can't loving dump all your stats and then get mad when people point out that you've dumped all your stats. Rockopolis posted:Just how dim/ugly are you with 1 logic/charisma? Having a stat at 1 means you are very literally incapable of using the skills in that stat if you default, since you default down to zero dice. That means you are physically incapable of using any of your social skills. Charisma 1 means you can never convince someone of anything, lie meaningfully, lead others, perform in any way, or even act polite. Logic 1 means you are incapable of using any electronics - posting pictures of cats on the internet is beyond you, you fail at any and all academic knowledge checks, and you may as well be unable to read. Logic 1 means you are severely mentally deficient. Charisma 1 means you are incapable of holding a conversation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:20
|
|
constantly?
|
ProfessorCirno posted:If you have Charisma 1 and no social dice you are literally incapable of talking coherently. If you have Logic 3 and no tech skill dice, you are literally incapable of using electronics. What kind of character is that? Don't make up rules.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:26
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:Don't make up rules. If your dice pool is zero, you can't roll because your dice pool is zero. You have no dice to roll. If your stat is 1 and you have no skill, you default (-1 to dice pool) and simply automatically fail at those tests unless you have net positive modifiers or spend Edge.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:34
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:Don't make up rules. If you have a stat at 1, your default dice is 0. That's not a made up rule. If you have Charisma 1 then any time you try to use a social skill you fail before you even begin. You literally cannot succeed at a social skill. Ever. You are physically incapable of succeeding in any social skill. Look, my position is "I expect people to actually play out having the lowest charisma or logic physically possible" and yours is "Making people actually play out the stats they gave themselves is mean." One of us is being utterly ridiculousness, and I have a feeling it's not the guy expecting people play by the rules or actually roleplay. Edit: It's either a weakness or free points. And every single GM out there should count it as a weakness rather then free points. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Aug 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:35
|
|
|
Okay, I'm making up my character sheet now. What skill do I need to help keep my drones from getting hacked? To contribute to the present conversation, though, what does it mean when someone has both Charisma 1 and Uncouth? That's the plan so far with this guy. I even also picked Bad Rep because of it, 'He's F@$%in Crazy!'
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:39
|
|
|
Holy poo poo you guys are loving angry about RULES I thought we were supposed to talk about the game and how we play it and swap cool stories about runs and complain about GMs/being GMs and generally be chill about a loving pen and paper game we all love. Instead everyone's sniping at each other over stupid loving nuances that will be resolved at table anyway. Holy gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:43
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:If you have a stat at 1, your default dice is 0. That's not a made up rule. If you have Charisma 1 then any time you try to use a social skill you fail before you even begin. You literally cannot succeed at a social skill. Ever. You are physically incapable of succeeding in any social skill. You've conflated, "Can't succeed at a challenging check," with, "Literally unable to communicate," which is inaccurate and unsupported by the actual rules of the actual game which we are supposedly discussing. You are doing this because you can't actually come up with a situation where a player desperately, badly needs to get exactly one success on a logic or charisma check, because situations where you need successes like that have higher thresholds--you need to actually beat someone at a charisma check, for example, which means unless you're engaging in high-stakes negotiation with an unattended vending machine I don't hold much for your chances. Instead you're coming up with excuses to punish a player for not building their character poorly, which is adversarial GMing at its finest. Logic 1 isn't brain-damaged, Charisma 1 isn't compulsive Tourettes, and the rules don't suggest otherwise anywhere. And even if you could come up with a situation where you badly need that single hit, well, that's what edge is for, unexpected little surprises. Everyone should get lots of edge, edge is sweet. It's certainly better than lowering a useful stat to raise another from completely useless to still completely useless. BenRGamer posted:To contribute to the present conversation, though, what does it mean when someone has both charisma 1 and Uncouth? That's the plan so far with this guy. I even also picked Bad Rep because of it, 'He's F@$%in Crazy!' That's much closer to a furious semi-coherent monster. Honestly Uncouth is a pretty poo poo disadvantage, because no one who throws points into Charisma is going to take it and no one who doesn't is meaningfully affected by it. Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Aug 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:44
|
|
|
BenRGamer posted:Okay, I'm making up my character sheet now. What skill do I need to help keep my drones from getting hacked? Your standard goon 
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:45
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:You've conflated, "Can't succeed at a challenging check," with, "Literally unable to communicate," which is inaccurate and unsupported by the actual rules of the actual game which we are supposedly discussing. You are doing this because you can't actually come up with a situation where a player desperately, badly needs to get exactly one success on a logic or charisma check, because situations where you need successes like that have higher thresholds--you need to actually beat someone at a charisma check, for example, which means unless you're engaging in high-stakes negotiation with an unattended vending machine I don't hold much for your chances. Instead you're coming up with excuses to punish a player for not building their character poorly, which is adversarial GMing at its finest. You're right. Being phyically incapable of succeeding in etiquette totally means your character is well balanced and able to hold conversations with what the gently caress am I saying? Know what? Here. I'll ask you directly: should a stat at 1 be a weakness, or should it be free points?
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:46
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:You're right. Being phyically incapable of succeeding in etiquette totally means your character is well balanced and able to hold conversations with what the gently caress am I saying? Neither. It is an asset you haven't bought and points you haven't spent. Your attributes aren't weaknesses, they're tools, and if you have a 1 in a score the 'weakness' is that you can't use that attribute meaningfully. If you aren't interested in that attribute, don't take it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:48
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:Neither. It is an asset you haven't bought and points you haven't spent. Is it free points or a weakness? If it's "an asset you haven't bought and points you haven't spent" then they are free points. Don't get all weaselly. Just say: free points or a weakness?
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 07:36 |
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Just say: free points or a weakness? Still neither.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 01:51
|
|