Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

SurrealityCheck posted:

I wonder how real time the dodging in this is. It looks like they have made the real time stuff more real time than DA2 and the tactical stuff more tactical than DA2 (not hugely hard).
The recent RPS interview answered this one. If you are running un-paused, you dodge by hitting a key and moving in a direction to dodge. If you are paused, you activate the "dodge" ability, which presents you with a little aoe-like positioning circle that lets you pick where you dodge to once you unpause. It sounds like they may also bake dodging into some of the skills, like the backflip ability rogues got in DAII.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Pick posted:

I think Isabela was only a problem because a lot of people didn't use her enough prior to that part of Act II, because Varric is the other rogue, and gently caress, maybe you were a rogue. I actively have to try to remember to user her enough in a playthrough to keep her. Points are harder to get in Acts I and II also. gently caress, you can go from pretty solid friend to locked Anders Rival (or the converse) based on his Act III personal quests alone, I'm pretty sure.

I think they should have just reduced the points necessary; sure, if you don't use her EVER, let there be punishment. But if you just didn't use her all the time then have a heart, Bioware.
Isabella was extra bad, because even if you did do things right, she still leaves, only she comes back later, so it appears you hosed up somewhere. First time that happened, I, like a smuck, thought my 75% Friend wasn't apparently enough (when all you need is 50% IIRC), and loaded a save back from the start of Act II and replayed it all. The sensible thing would have been to look it up, but this was the first playthrough and I didn't want to risk spoilers.

It ties into a bigger discussion about cordoning off content (which is fine) without letting the player know what they did to get locked off (except when you do this), only that they missed out on something (which is just salt in the wound). It's a problem often seen in conjunction with, but not exclusively tied to, morality systems. JRPGs f.inst. do it all the time, which is why there is a Guide Dang It entry on TvTropes.

GhostBoy fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Oct 11, 2013

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

epitasis posted:

And I think at least Leliana will go bonkers back at camp even if she's not in the party?

Actually I think the way to do it is get max approval with Leliana and not have recruited Wynne yet or something. It's doable.
Or lie. Lying to her about what happened to the ashes works too. If you wanna be nice, you can bring her a small sample of the ashes from before you soil them, I think. For all the companions it goes that as long as you don't bring them along to <plot event they care about> they need never be none the wiser. Wynne is in some respects the worst offender, since if you have Morrigan along when you first meet, a seemingly innocent (if a bit rude) comment will make her flip out and try to kill you.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

MadJackMcJack posted:

Has anyone got a bullet point version of that Dragon Age Keep interview. I'm interested in the Keep, but game dev interviews bore the tits off me.

The TL;DR version is:

* DA Keep is a website that lets you crate and store your stuff in the cloud.
* "Your stuff" is primarily all the plot flags that make up the world state, across the two other games and the DLC. Might be other things for later games.
* You can import such a state (which does not have to be "fully completed all games") at the start of DI and the game will play as if you took those choice in the other games.
* Importing save games is hard for lots of technical reasons. Don't expect this to happen unless someone at the studio has an epiphany.
* The Keep is optional. If you skip it, you get some sort of canon/default world state.
* The Keep sounds quite free form. You could f.inst. just check "Alistair is dead", and it will ensure that the rest of the flags are set such that there are no conflicts. So you could just cherry pick certain choices, if you don't care about detailed control over every little thing.

The rest was rehash of why importing is hard, and some talk about the plot diagrams and the validator used.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Vitamin P posted:

I'm curious, is anyone here actually going to buy Inquisition new without getting a goon consensus/reliable review first?

This is Bioware's first biggy since DA2 and ME3 and those didn't exactly inspire faith.
I probably will, but then I am one of those weirdoes that seem more able than average to overlook faults in a game, so long as most of it is enjoyable. I got annoyed with the ME3 ending, but the extended ending fixed all my major complaints, so my faith is perhaps less shaken than most too. DA2 wasn't a great game to me, but I don't regard it as the festering postule of puss the goon consensus seems to consider it to be.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

VAs I would like to see/hear:

Simon Templeman. He's a superb VA, and sadly have not landed many big gigs recently, so I would the doubly pleased to see him get some headliners (even if DA:I turns out bad, it is going to be a big title). Only drawback would be, that it is really very hard not to hear Kain speaking each time..... come to think of it, maybe that is not a drawback after all.

Grey DeLisle. She is working hard to dethrone Jennifer Hale as my favourite female VA. Not quite there yet, but that is mainly because she does more TV stuff than games.

Xanthe Elbrick: Have only heard her as the female inquisitor i SWTOR, but she made a hell on an impression there.

Courtnee Draper: She did good work in Bioshock Infinite. Would be interested to hear more from her.

And while we are at it, throw Troy Baker in there for good measure.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

MildShow posted:

Did you miss the rather large role he played in Origins? And I imagine that being a cast member on a network TV show (The Neighbors) for the past two years probably eats up a good amount of time.
No, hence the "not many" rather than "not any". Plus Origins is a while back now. I know he's had some minor roles in SWTOR, D3 etc. Not saying the dude is out of work, just that I would like to see a game with him voicing the protagonist again.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Geostomp posted:

So what I'm hearing is that rolling is the first thing you should spend any talent points on, right? Any game with a combat roll violently punishes you if you fail to use it constantly.
Far too early to say that. It could be a thing you need for everyone, or it could be there only for those that don't want to go down the heavy armour tank route. Using a dodge roll to reinforce active combat is common, yes, but not all games have you tumble around like a loon. Even Witcher 2, which used it alot, encourgaed you to time it for the more critical attacks.

Anyway, you could be right and it is semi-mandatory. But we have only a few seconds footage of combat, and no clue how the talent trees are structured, so that would at best be a guess.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Andre Banzai posted:

Wait. Will I still be able to use my savegames?

Cause hell if I still remember all my decisions. Except loving mudering that rear end in a top hat Loghain and that other rear end in a top hat Anders in DA2. Screw them. I remember I actually feared I'd not be able to kill Loghain myself, leaving it to Alistair to finish the job. Man, was I happy to take that burden off his back. When my character got all bloodied from the strike, I got up and said out loud "man this game is awesome". This is how much I hated his guts.

The official word is "Probably not". There is a multitude of problems involved in it, from inconsistent world states, to whether they include all relevant flags and the fact that DA:I comes out on completely different platforms in the case of consoles. People keep asking, and they haven't positively ruled it out yet, but for now I would not expect anything but using the Keep.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Section Z posted:

Which leaves me wondering if the whole snarl of console profiles/Origin Profiles/ will kick me and my brother in the teeth for only buying a single copy of the game. But at least it's not yet another game with only a single save slot that works via autosave? :v:


If you are still referring to the Keep, another aspect they have mentioned is replayability. They want people to be able to play through the game in a different worldstate, without forcing them to replay the two 25-50 hour games than came before just to get started. The Keep lets you go back an generate f.inst. 5 different worldstates, and play a game based on each of those. Think of it as an interactive generator for the default states you used in DA2, if you didn't import a save.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Kajeesus posted:

To be fair to the DA2 reviewer, the game is really good at tricking you into thinking your choices matter. I was impressed in my first playthrough, when it seemed like having to fight both Orsino and Meredith was a consequence of me being a mage siding with the templars. Then in my second playthrough, I noticed that all my actions led to the exact same consequences. There's a few things that are superficially different based on dialogue choice (even then I think you can maybe avoid one fight per chapter, and nothing you do will actually change the quests your party members take you on), and I think there's exactly three things that are indirectly caused by your actions:

-Your sibling's fate depends on your party selection during the expedition. To be fair, knowing what happens is a pretty tought dilemma. You can piss off and alienate your sibling, let them die, or willingly spend weeks (months?) underground in the company of Anders and have them leave anyway.
-You can have some agency during the act II showdown if you've used Isabela regularly and focused on going down one of her relationship paths. Otherwise you fight the Arishok and Isabela leaves your party. Even if you do everything right, Isabela still escapes and the Arishok presumably gets executed immediately after.
-In the act III climax, party members might leave or fight you depending on your relationship and which side you pick. I've never had anyone turn on me, though.

And even then, the two first of those suffer from the issue that the player is not told, how they influenced the choice, or given a hint at the time of making the choice, that it is important in some respect. They are similar to the 'choice' about what sibling survives, which is based on the apparently unrelated choice of what character class you'd like to play.

1. The game does make it clear that whether or not you take your sibling is somehow important, through your mother imploring you not to take him/her along. It never mentions that Anders may be significant.
2. The trigger for whether Isabella runs off forever, or returns later, is, IIRC, 50% affection in either direction. For all others, affection is made into a game-spanning development. She has a breakpoint fairly shortly after you meet her, and if you don't know about it, she appears to be simply scripted to leave whatever you do. Some of the others can still gently caress off, but only if you very deliberately tell them to or insult them on the clearly very personal to them task you are on.

It is one thing, when apparent choices do not lead to different outcomes. I find it much much worse, when I am not (or only dimly) aware that a consequence was a result of my actions, but given no knowledge of which actions (or utterances) it was. It don't want perfect clarity over every consequence before choosing, and I don't need a popup telling me that calling the king a bastard is pissing him off. But Anders saying before the expedition "Y'know, taking a Grey Warden along to the Deep Roads would probably be a very good idea" is an example of the type of hint I am after. If the game finds something important, the player needs to know that it is, even if the character does not know why.

Thankfully, the DA:I devs have adressed exactly that problem of transparency in the presentation of the dialogue system, and that alone is a pretty big part of why, I allow myself to be quietly optimistic about DA:I.

GhostBoy fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jun 18, 2014

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Opal posted:

That would be an appropriate response to truth yes

What a bloke writes on the internet, even in a review, hardly constitutes objective truth. And people enjoy less-than-stellar games constantly, even if they are aware they contain significant plotholes. The review itself was rather rambling, unclear and occasionally nitpicky to boot.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Furism posted:

Do we know how long after DAO/DA2 Inquisition will take place? I was wondering if the Inquisitor could be the baby demon.
We don't exactly how long after DA2 it is set, but I can say for certain that the Inquisitor will not be the demon baby. The devs have been very adamant that, even in a world state where you had the baby, it would not play a major part in the narrative. Considering it is optional, it would be hard to make the main characters story sometimes deeply intertwined with that side arc, while in other playthroughs it never happened.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Nichael posted:

Is Frostbite easy enough to mod for more awkward "beauty" mods that just so happen to lighten up the dark skinned party members? Because if not, that's a true shame; I loved how creepy and cringe worthy those mods were. I can just imagine how many talented modders will be yearning to give Vivienne a make over...
I forget where I read it, but the answer is that Frostbite is hella hard to make moddable. The build process for applying assets to areas is both involved and requires computation power well beyond what most desktops can cope with. So general modding with a toolkit from Bioware I wouldn't expect to see.

It may be that a simple texture swap on your characters is possible though, or you can possibly swap numbers around on gear and whatnot, but the modders will have to do it the hard way of hacking in the games files directly. This being the internet, I'm sure someone will work out a way to do it eventually, but I'd be cautious of using such "mods" for risk of corrupting the game.

GhostBoy fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Jun 27, 2014

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

SurrealityCheck posted:

Certainly the scheduling is more the publisher, but plenty of other aspects of DA3 are clearly improvements on DA2, or adaptations of lessons learned from ME3. Given the level of vitriol DA2 received I would be absolutely astonished if they didn't react to it. More significantly, what they have said about the ending variations (to take an example) indicates that they recognised how unhappy people were with both the ME3 and DA2 ending.

I'm not saying they're going to turn into obsidian overnight, but I think an entirely pessimistic view is unwarranted. Those quotes are pretty obviously compressed PR type deals - here we lay out the character's archetype, then we add the twist afterwards. It's not particularly beautiful but it serves its purpose - most of the writing in the game will not have to be as instrumental as that.

I've been pretty pleased by all the screenshots and footage I've seen so far. The new engine looks excellent, the gameplay looks like an improvement on both DAO and DA2, the ability to play an Inquisitor of multiple races (again, something they learned from DA2... >_>) is good, etc etc. Bioware's writing is always a little bit clever-clever and inward-turned, but I still enjoyed large parts of Mass Effect 3.

Ah, but you must understand that this is the game after DA2, and so clearly everything that even hints at uninspired writing means the whole game will be utter dross and the plot destined to be straight out of la-la land. I mean, we have several one-liners to prove it, right?

As should be obvious, I agree that the pessimism is somewhat overdone. People have plenty of reason to be disillusioned with Bioware, and point out that their writing has been formulaic. Certainly Bioware brought at lot of this on their own heads. I'm sure some of it comes from people wanting this game to be good, and signs that it might not be cause worry. When it comes to learning from their mistakes though, suggesting they did not conflicts with what we have heard in interviews. They absolutely are aware that mistakes were made, they want to fix those and, at least from my perspective, when they have mentioned specifics about what the mistakes were, they refer to many of the complaints that keep coming up, like the lack of real choice, the "slave to my will" companions etc etc.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Drifter posted:

I wonder how much of the initial backlash from press and other critics and loud consumers was hurting potential sales prior to that extended release. Sometimes that wave of negativity can prevent people from talking about the game if they liked it. If you can't talk about it you might not play it long enough to make any online cash transactions. Maybe there was no impact at all, but man, I couldn't imagine a black eye like that would have helped them in the future.

How long did it take for them to release the extended cut? A few weeks? A couple months?
3 months. Game came out in March, the DLC hit in June (July for some consoles). How soon they started working on it is anybodys guess, but I seem to remember they defended their 'artistic choice' for a least a month before starting to make noises about maybe some things could be improved.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Solice Kirsk posted:

Wait, is the Keep only for beta users?

Of course not. The Keep is the solution to not being able to import save games across platforms, as well as the old import system sometimes creating inconsistent or broken world states.

It's in beta now, but from what I can gather a rather small one. You don't have to sign up for anything to get to use it, once the game launches.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

alex314 posted:

We're around 3 months from launch, is there any info about 0-day DLC or other lovely practices?
Apart from the pre-order/deluxe bonusses, I don't think they've said much about DLC, save that they won't be selling any new companions as DLC at all (source: gamespot article), and that any DLC will be out on the Xbone before other platforms (E3), though they did say the others would follow Soon(tm) afterwards for whatever that's worth. The DLC will focus on more post-game content.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Torrannor posted:

Interesting. Post-game content = multiplayer like in ME3? Or stories like in DA2?

Stories mostly from what I can gather. Post-game in this sense means stuff that happens after the main plot, not flashbacks or more side-quests to do while playing through the main game.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

CottonWolf posted:

Just on the topic of optimal choices, a lot of the problem with video games is the 'bad' choice is inferior in game content terms. I have often argued that games should make all the options equally valid, but that's not how it works in the majority of games. Normally, letting people die, or equivalent, just means you experience less content, not different content. When that's the case, one choice clearly is optimal. Why ever have a save where you let someone die, when the only consquence of that save is that the amount of content in the later game is reduced?

This is actually one of the reasons that making the default import into DA:I have everyone be dead is odd to me. Perhaps they'll do it right, and truly different content will replace the inevitable cameos, but I'm skeptical.

This is basically why I go for the "optimal" playthroughs in most games that have such a thing. It is also often compounded by the fact that if some sort of morality system is involved, the "evil" route is the one where you just plain see less of the content, not different content (since the person triggering the content/quest is now dead or missing).

ME's renegade system was lauded, beyond being less puppy-kicking evil than usual, for the fact that sometimes the renegade option was the one triggering more stuff for you later. Not alot, but sometimes (at least I seem to recall a few times where the Paragon option was basically talking people out of a plan, where the renegade version gave you a quest to go on).

Having everyone that can be dead by default be dead was explained as not wanting to have to write introduction sequences for all the optional persons. By assuming them dead, they can also assume that if they are alive, then it is because the player chose (via the keep) to make them that, and presumably that means the player knows who the person is already. That is fairly reasonable to me: It would be a drag to sit and hear Wynnes backstory f.inst, when if she is alive, it means I spent a lot of DA:O getting to know the character already.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Eldragon posted:

Any game that ends where the player just picks between a series of buttons and that determines the outcome is a horrible ending. ME2 and Deus Ex : HR being the most notable offenders.

It should never be the case where the last 2 minutes of the game is even a "choice" it should be all the choices you made up until that point determines how it ends. Preferably with a quick recap showing how the choices you made during the game resulted in which "button" was chosen for you.

Obviously "Button" doesn't need to be a literal button; but in sci-fi games most of the time it is!

It would be more ideal, certainly preferable to an override button, but I think it bears notice that such an accumulation is exceedingly tricky to pull off, without risking undue exposition or obvious and jarring telegraphs about the impact along the way. An ending like that can feel just as bullshit, if the reaction is "Wait, THAT was important?" during the recap.

Not impossible, mind, but a game doing that needs a few proper writers to make it work, not just "developer in charge of story" as is often the case. And there is some small merit in the button solution, that you can quite easily see all the endings without full playthroughs for each one to get the right combo/relying on finding a non-lovely version on youtube. So there is that.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Furism posted:

Hod do you move from Technical Artist to Project Director to Team Leader (don't see how that's different from Project Leader) for a whole trilogy in just a few games? This guy must have been seriously kissing asses.

Or he is just a much better administrator than he is an artist, and they moved him to a position that fit. There's three years between MDK2 and KOTOR, and another 2 between that and ME (with Jade Empire in between), plenty of time to move up the rungs internally without accusing him of sleeping with the boss.


vvvv You expected a detailed biography in a press release? :confused:

GhostBoy fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Aug 8, 2014

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Geostomp posted:

I guess it could technically be called a curveball, but, by that logic, so would the Reapers suddenly deciding that they will only surrender if they are shown the power of love as displayed by a romantic play or spontaneously becoming giant ice cream cones. Being unexpected isn't the same thing as being well-thought-out or at all good.


Anyway, back to the trailer. I think they might be banking on too many spoilers. Revealing the main villain in what I assume to be his final boss form too quickly. I thought there was supposed to be some mystery behind it all.
It may not be as spoilery as all that. Both the spider and the dragon are shown pretty out of context. The last one especially just has a random voice over running, that doesn't have to actually have any connection to the scene (it certainly doesn't lip sync well with the scene). And "It ends here" might be something you say to the final boss, but it could fit in many many circumstances.

The trailer does show a number of what are probably quite close to climax moments, but that's hardly new for Bioware trailers. Heck, the ME3 launch trailer includes footage from the climax of every major plot mission, as well as the final stand on Earth, but much of that is only really stuff you realise in hindsight. Trailers are about getting people hyped; If you are concerned about spoilers you are likely already planning to get the game, and thus not really the target audience.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Scorchy posted:

Man that art and the marketing are straight ripped out of Secret World. So it's just a co-op dungeon crawler?

With the twist that the fifth player controls the monsters and can influence the dungeon somehow (probably setting traps and whatnot). Think "The Secert World (non-mmo version)" meets "Evolve".

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Lotish posted:

Cole's hat in this demo, man. That's some hat.

They mentioned that you get stat points when you buy abilities. Did they cut out the 3 points every level for attributes? Because it occurs to me that I haven't a screen for that.

From what I could tell from the gameplay, it looks like attribute stats are baked into the abilities. Each time you buy f.inst a melee ability, you also gain some strength, and presumably when you buy magic spells, you would gain intelligence or something.

I think I prefer this method to the old games, really. DA was never really especially complex with the player stats; You had one stat you pumped, and then maybe got a bit of willpower or constitution on the side, unless you felt like intentionally gimping yourself (and it was obvious which stats to go for without looking at min-max guides). This way your stats will be less lopsided, and grow according to the style of play you develop along the way. If you start out as a basher, but decide halfway through to do a more battle-mage style of play, you just start buying the spells and that will give you the int you lack, rather than having maybe to respec because you dumped all your points into strength. With the amount of skills they have, even carrying around a few useless ones after you switch styles won't be a reroll-worthy hinderance.

Another nice effect, assuming I understood the system correctly, is that this sort of switch in playstyle is something you can do at any time, rather than f.inst having to wait a few levels until you have the int to buy the spells you want.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Lotish posted:

One thing I didn't realize until I went back and played DA2 all the way through as a mage was how much the templars point out that they know you're a mage and/or you hang out with mages, but they just don't do anything about it, because you're rich and famous and they can't move against you. Which actually makes less because those rules don't apply to any other mage in Kirkwall. But you're just that ~special~.
Not sure what the missing word after "less" is, but to give DA2 what little credit it's due, the fact that you can be a mage withtout being thrown into the circle is the entire plot of ACT 1. You are not ~plot-armored speciel~in that regard, you work towards getting the bribe-money and political connections that will make you immune to what happens to every other mage (for either yourself or your sister).

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Based on that class/races preview, it seems the reasoning for being at the Conclave only changes based on class for humans. All elves and dwarves are sent as spies, the Qunari are there to be guards, but the humans either are part of the mage delegation that negotiate (if a mage), or you are sent because of your close family ties to the chantry. I wonder whether this is just a "two different lines of dialogue" difference, or something more profound.

EDIT: Looking at the leaked screens, I see a "Leiliana is alive and well" option, which suggests the opposite exists. Since we know she has Plot Armor and survives, I also wonder how much they go into that bit of the story. I hope it's not just handwaved. Of course, being alive and well might be the only choice.

GhostBoy fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Aug 20, 2014

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Skippy McPants posted:

You wouldn't be able to play the first two in any case. Direct save importing won't be supported, it's Keep or nothing. Which I'm totally fine with, since I don't even remember half the poo poo I didn't in past play throughs. Glad the Keep looks to be fairly robust. That said I kinda also hope that a bunch of the stuff you can configure doesn't even come up. I remember ME 2&3 sometimes going more than a little overboard with the callbacks. I don't need some guy wandering up to my Inquisitor to tell me a story about how the Warden once conned him out of his lunch.

I cannot recall where I read it, but I seem to remember them saying that the Keep will have two modes: one for just dealing with the big plot decisions, and a detailed option where you decide all the things. So if you don't want to deal with minor side characters, you can just accept the defaults there (with all the defaults tending towards "he/she died").

vvvvvv When the gently caress did "detailed" become a synonym for "creepy"? :confused:

GhostBoy fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Aug 21, 2014

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Drifter posted:

[Re: crunchy combat] Feelings of weight and response to weapons and stuff?

Could also be meant in the more traditional RPG distinction between "crunch" and "fluff". Fluff is all the setting description and flavour text, crunch is the mechanics and rules part of it. So crunchy combat means you have stats to min/max and trade-offs to consider in your choice of weapons/combat style. Dunno if this applies to Deus Ex, as I never played the original.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

The Sharmat posted:

Why are you defending the honor of this video game company so fiercely?

This isn't just an anti-bioware thing. People should be skeptical of pre-release material for any game. Brand loyalty is a sickness.
To remain sceptical is not the same as being dismissive. The promise I can see in the pre-release material is enough that I follow the development and want to know as soon after release as possible if it lives up to it, because in that case I want to play it rather at once. Of course pre-release material is carefully controlled, but it hardly needs to be blind brand loyalty to say "I really want to play a good Dragon Age game again, and so far this looks the part."

We've seen several fights ranging from boss dragons down to trash skeletons. We've been shown several cutscenes of moments of tension, where it is most critical that the writing and pacing are of a certain standard. We did, back earlier this year, see a few example of the dialogue selection and a bit of open world exploration. We certainly have enough there to form impressions without listening to a single word that the developers have said about or during all that. What conclusions you draw from these impressions, will depend on the person, but it's hardly convincing or terrible enough that we can tell if it will be the poo poo or utter poo poo.

GhostBoy fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Sep 1, 2014

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

A bit tangential to the game itself, but Jacques Lebrun, Technical Director at Bioware, posted a bit over on the Frostbite site about why they went with that engine, and some of challenges they faced in using it for DA:I. Frostbite blog.

Looks like they and the Frostbite folks had to invent quite a few new features for them.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

We shall see how they make good on the promise, but at least one of the things they have mentioned in regards to the DA:I romances is that any sex scene that may happen is not the culmination of the relationship, as it has been in previous games, and that the companions attitude towards the inquisitor (for all of them, not just the romance) is informed to a significant degree by the actions you take out on adventure. The stronghold doesn't exist in a time-bubble, and people will find out to some extent (arguably more so if they were there in person) what you've been up to.

Both sounds like steps in the right direction for more involved relationships, platonic, antagonist or romantic.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Josef bugman posted:

When did you guys finally stop playing DA2? For me it was when I had reached the third act and realised nothing I had done had mattered a single bit against the storyline bioware "wanted" to have.

I still have yet to finish it, and am eternally grateful that the Keep is letting me set stuff up without doing so.
I have around 200 hours logged on it, which is 4 full playthroughs and a few aborted attempts. 2 to try different styles of Hawke (good guy and sarcastic), then one when I got the Legacy DLC and another inspired by this thread to see if it really was as bad as they said, and whether I was just wearing rose-coloured glasses.

Which makes it a bit sad really that I never could bring myself to do an rear end in a top hat, side-with-the-templars game together, because Meredith is so insane I really did not feel like agreeing with her at all.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Stroop There It Is posted:

I like the timed element to dialogue selection in Alpha Protocol. I bet that would drive BSN kiddies nuts because they wouldn't always get to pick their PERFECT OPTION, which would be an added benefit.

It drove me up the wall as well, for the RP aspects of it, or rather the lack of them. I like to keep a consistent tone in RPGs, and without being a method actor living the role, it sometimes requires you consider how your personality of the day would respond to a situation. It doesn't help that in Alpha Protocol you sometimes get fed a line that puts things into persepctive or reveal a twist, and then get 5 seconds to read and pick a line.

AP is a good game, but I really wished they had an option to turn that timed poo poo off.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Drifter posted:

You're obsessing about non-difficult choices and not living with the consequences. That sounds even worse.

"Fear" of living with the consequences has nothing to do with my annoyance with timed dialogues. If it's just picking snarky/friendly/agrressive one-liner for this moment, then fine. But conversations in RPGs affect something down the line (or they should, even if the 'something' is minor). That's the whole point of giving people choices on how to respond. It's also part of why you might replay a game, to take a different path.

Putting that timer in the design forces a choice on the player from the beginning of the game: Either pick a response option for everything regardless of what happens so at least you'll be consistent, or have your outcome be semi-random based on your gut reaction and thus invalidate two of the points of the choice: deciding which consequence you want and allowing replayability (unless you write down what you said every step of the way). That is poor dialogue design in my book, even if AP manages to make the story and game work despite of it.

Why does this need to be a forced design? If you want to pick dialogues off the cuff, then do so. Set your own limit of picking within 5 seconds or whatever and live gloriously with your screwups.

Thankfully the point is somewhat moot here, because we know DA:I is going in practically the opposite route, not using timers and even giving you expanded mouse-over text on some of the major choices to further let you mull over what the likely consequences of picking them may be (like which faction may be pissed off at you if you do something).

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Raygereio posted:

Either you really didn't get what Alpha Protocol was going for, or it simply wasn't the game for you. The dialogues in AP are supposed to put pressure on the player and make conversations feel like tense situations.

I think part of the problem a lot of people have with AP's timed dialogue is that they're used to Bioware-style choices where there's pretty much always a "best choice".
Forced to choose between killing a possessed child or saving the child via killing the mother? Why would you ever pick either of those two when you can just go get the mages and save everyone? Faced with the choice between getting Tali exiled from her home and family or revealing her father's crimes? Well screw having to make a choice! Just yell at the judges with enough paragon/renegade points and everything will work out fine.
And if there's a "best choice" picking any other option can feel a failure state - because you either lost access to content, or there's the knowledge that if you picked the "best choice" you could have saved everyone floating around in the back of your head, so people start obsessing over getting the best outcome.
Alpha Protocol didn't really have any "best choice" like this. Did you annoy Marburg instead of charming his pants off? You have not entered a failure state. You didn't loose access to content, you instead got access to different content.

There is some amount of feeling like a wrong choice is a failed choice for me, but not necessarily in the sense of getting the "best outcome" based on what is mechanically superior or arrives at a "everything is solved without losses" state, if these exist. A "best outcome" in any RPG is the outcome I want for that playthrough. AP does allow you enter a perceived failure state there, if you have decided your Mike likes Marburg and you want to see the content that happens when they are best buds, not the content where you annoy each other. The game doesn't end, you have not handicapped yourself and you can likely make up for it later, but it was, ultimately, the game that picked something for me, for having the audacity to sit back and say "Hmmm... how do I smooze him best here... Professional or... whoops, too late".

Without the timer, the same content and paths and story and all the rest is still there, and to APs credit pretty much all of it is worth seeing and makes an enjoyable experience. That doesn't mean that it isn't annoying to pick something you didn't want for a particular playthrough.

GhostBoy fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Sep 23, 2014

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Lotish posted:

This is being recorded, yes? Because I can't watch it at the office. Love the avatar they put together.

They will "archive it" they said. Not sure if they talked about VOD on twitch or their youtube channel, but you'll be able to watch it somewhere later.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Doctor Spaceman posted:

I was pretty sure Redcliffe was the first spot you were meant to go; Alistair and the others refer to it the most, and it's got the lowest scaling enemies.


Don't you get various rewards if you keep them all alive?

You get a piece of armour and a slightly different speech at the end IIRC if you manage to keep everyone alive.

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Fair Bear Maiden posted:

I'm going to be honest Decus, I have absolutely no bloody idea what you're getting at with that post there. At the very least, could you actually link to the blog post you're responding to?

I'm guessing he is referring to this forum post by Lukas Kristjanson (a bioware employee) regarding why they decided to go with no normal heal spells and limited potions (there is a heal, but it requires using the focus resource that you build up by being in combat for a while).

Basically they decided to make hit points a long-term resource rather than short term, ie one you track over multiple fights rather than just one. Obviously this requires some retooling of skills, because once you stretch it over more than one fight, you essentially give the player infinite time, so cooldowns stop being a limitation. They can just hole up in a corner and wait to heal up again. It'll be annoying as heck, but if you give people the ability, they will of course use it.

Instead they put the focus on preventing damage, adding in the temporary barriers etc to allow combat to be somewhat interesting rather than a steady stream of low damage. It works differently, but while Lukas may not have explained it very well, he is basically talking about Effective Health Pools that any MMO tank should be familiar with: In a regain-health dynamic, the tank only needs enough hit points (either as actual HP or in the form of damage mitigation from armor) to survive a number of the biggest hits, which that number being decided by how quickly the healers can fill him up again, and the max length of combat you can survive is limited by the healers mana pool. In DA terms, that means you are limited in time by the number of potions you can cart around, and the EHP of the damage sponges needs to cover the cooldown of the heal spell/potions. Or put it another way: you practically never lost a fight because it dragged out, but only due to spikes catching you while the heal was on CD or something like that, because after 30 minutes of playing, potions were so cheap you could always have as many as you wanted with you. They decided that making health a long term resource allowed more varied encounter design, by making it so a string of encounters, some hard, some easy, overall was a challenge, not being forced to make each encounter a self-contained one.

GhostBoy fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Oct 6, 2014

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

GhostBoy
Aug 7, 2010

Shadow gamer posted:

How the hell does that work?

Poorly. The whole subplot with the book is never mentioned, so the Arishok won't ever reveal why he stuck around, and rather randomly gets incredibly mad and decides to burn the city.

  • Locked thread