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If you guys would like, I could do more disgruntled Zeon RnD posts, just hook me up with a few Zeon mech designs and I'll start writing some up!
Samuel fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 21:34
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Well, it seems as when the AI starts to go into Bullshit Mode they also gain the ability to instantly regain their aces, even if you shot them down the last turn.
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Aug 25, 2014 23:16
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Samuel posted:If you guys would like, I could do more disgruntled Zeon RnD posts, just hook me up with a few Zeon mech designs and I'll start writing some up! Hows about this? Or this? Or this Methuss ripoff? Just to get ya started.
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Aug 25, 2014 23:50
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So is there a list anywhere on what mobile suits you actually get for finishing earlier than normal? There is a list of blueprints on some sites but it doesn't seem to be the same as I get different MS's than the ones on that list like the Action Zaku and the Z'Gok-E, which aren't listed on it. Playing the PS2 version of this game, if you wondered.
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Aug 26, 2014 00:31
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Koorisch posted:So is there a list anywhere on what mobile suits you actually get for finishing earlier than normal? If you're talking about what I think you are, then I believe it's the same as stealing Enemy Tech, except for free. I have no proof of that though.
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Aug 26, 2014 05:05
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Koorisch posted:So is there a list anywhere on what mobile suits you actually get for finishing earlier than normal? There's lists around somewhere or other, look for the early clear bonus or something. You get the Qubeley plans if you finish in under something like 20 or 25 turns, nothing else particularly attractive on that list. Aside from that, finishing early has the downside of throwing you immediately into the next part, scattering your units around, taking away a big chunk of your territory, and spawning a full enemy army. Once you've got your foe down to one area, you can pretty much do whatever you want with impunity; you're getting almost all the cash/resources on the map and there's no real chance of an enemy comeback, even with Hyper Bullshit Mode which usually just results in the enemy building a hundred lovely mook suits for you to kill. So if you want to take a few extra turns and grab an extra tech level or two, or beef up your armies, or mass-produce the Big Zam, right before invading the enemy's final HQ is a great time to do so. EDIT: Found the lists:
Note that all these suits (except the Prototype Mk-II, which is only available to the Titans) can be gotten via normal research as well; the perk of these bonus plans is that you get the top-tier ones a lot earlier than you otherwise would, giving you an early advantage in Part 2 because you could potentially be building top-tier stuff like Zeta Gundams or Qubeleys while Axis and the Titans are still puttering around in Gaza-Cs and Hizacks. Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 26, 2014 06:11
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Main Paineframe posted:EDIT: Found the lists: ^ It isn't the Galbaldy Alpha, it's the Pezun Dowadge you get for 55-65 turns. How the gently caress do you finish that early? 
Koorisch fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 26, 2014 07:59
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 The power of chemistry... 
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Aug 29, 2014 19:45
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Pimpmust posted:
There's a company that makes signs in Colorado with that name since 1980 too!
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Aug 30, 2014 05:09
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VolticSurge posted:Hows about this? Or this?  When the order came through to upgrade the MS14A, we were pretty excited till the new demands imposed by the Zeon brass came in. "Added space capability" we all knew using suits in space wasn't the best idea but you never know right? So the initial thrusters were added along the exterior, because who gives a crap if they get hit when theres 15 other vital systems we need to protect without increasing bulk 50% across the entire mech. But now they wanted BETTER thrusters, and to turn a mech into a spaceship we needed bigger tanks fueling that circus for longer than ever. The initial internal fuel tanks were safe inside the mech's shell, but now in memory of many ancient flamethrower operators we had to move them outside. The decision was left up to us to see what we were going to do with the tanks, make them armoured? Keep them light? Well we wanted the mech to move in gravity instead of tipping over, so we kept it light but implemented a release system. Still if one accidentally nicked a building in urban combat or dense asteroids, the gashes would be too much for self sealing to handle and would always leak highly volatile fuel onto the mech and surroundings. On the test range we experimented with a technique we called parcel passing, which involved disconnecting the tanks and letting a wingman throw them at the enemy like a grenade. It was actually quite reliable! So we equipped some test models with no thrusters and small hand held tanks with M-77 Thermite mixes, and they really did the work in urban or colonial environments. It was very therapeutic for me and the guys and gals at R&D, we easily made a deathtrap of a new mech design and had enough budget left to play around with what really worked, we were all lost in that tiny world of sanity we created. 2 weeks later the MS-14jg was taken into active service, and our well deserved break came to an end.
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Aug 30, 2014 09:30
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Main Paineframe posted:FEDERATION Wait so... you're punished for finishing earlier? I mean I guess the prototype mkII branches off to a ton of poo poo, but the Zeta Gundam is easily the best thing on that entire federation bonus list.
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Aug 30, 2014 14:12
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BlitzBlast posted:Wait so... you're punished for finishing earlier? I mean I guess the prototype mkII branches off to a ton of poo poo, but the Zeta Gundam is easily the best thing on that entire federation bonus list. No, when you finish a campaign earlier you get ALL the blueprints on the list that are within your end turn time, starting with the one closest to your turn and up. Meaning that you should end it as quickly as possible to get the best rewards since those are usually pretty drat powerful. (like the Qubeley)
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Aug 30, 2014 15:55
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Speaking of the Zeta, how do transforming suits work in this game?
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Aug 30, 2014 16:00
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Same way Dodai Zaku/Goufs work.
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Aug 30, 2014 16:52
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BlitzBlast posted:Wait so... you're punished for finishing earlier? I mean I guess the prototype mkII branches off to a ton of poo poo, but the Zeta Gundam is easily the best thing on that entire federation bonus list. It's not the RX-178 Gundam MkII from the show, but rather the RX-178-X0 Prototype Gundam Mk-II, which follows the Gundam trope of "more prototypey = better" and outdoes not only the Mk-II but even the Zeta Gundam in terms of both maneuverability and firepower. It's also an original unit of the series, and quite difficult to get your hands on - other than the early completion bonus, I think it can only be gotten through certain events.   It's not as clearly superior over the other options as the Qubeley is (in particular, the Prototype Mk-II has way less HP than the Zetas) but it outflies and outguns the Zeta and that counts for a lot, and the higher limit rating (I think the Zeta's is 200%) can really pay off.
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Sep 16, 2014 06:43
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I think the 'logic' for the prototype being better than the actual line it spawns, is that they've tricked out and overengineered with the best part aviable. Mass producing something includes shaving off some parts and quality to, well, make it mass produced. Not to mention you usually give your prototypes to people who are qualified to this poo poo. But, you know, that's just me going off my experience from Alpha Centauri. A lot of that is just general mecha tropes.
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Sep 16, 2014 10:09
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Cosmic Afro posted:I think the 'logic' for the prototype being better than the actual line it spawns, is that they've tricked out and overengineered with the best part aviable. Mass producing something includes shaving off some parts and quality to, well, make it mass produced. Not to mention you usually give your prototypes to people who are qualified to this poo poo. I know that is the in-universe logic behind the ZZ Gundam. It was Anaheim electronics throwing everything into a single MS less intending to mass produce it and more to show the federation a bed of all their tech so they can say "Pick and choose what parts you like!"
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Sep 16, 2014 11:33
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Main Paineframe posted:It's not the RX-178 Gundam MkII from the show, but rather the RX-178-X0 Prototype Gundam Mk-II, which follows the Gundam trope of "more prototypey = better" and outdoes not only the Mk-II but even the Zeta Gundam in terms of both maneuverability and firepower. Literally the entire point of both the mkII and the Zeta is that they were way more mobile than anything else in their tech generation at the time they were introduced, how does that even work? EDIT: Wait I got this, the Titans must have gotten the 0083 tech guys in on it. Then they just mothballed the entire project to respect the plans being destroyed. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 11:34
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BlitzBlast posted:Literally the entire point of both the mkII and the Zeta is that they were way more mobile than anything else in their tech generation at the time they were introduced, how does that even work? The mk.II was agile only because of the movable frame; less armor hanging off meant less mass meant more maneuverability with the same amount of propellant and thrust force. Once on Earth, the mk.II needs a Dodai to remain relatively competitive with the likes of the lowly Asshimar. And the mk.II needs to be upgraded into the Super Gundam once back in space to be able to go up against the Hambrabi, Gabthley, etc. Then in ZZ it's basically married to the Flying Armor and is useless without, though some of that is due to having a… not exactly skilled pilot. It does make sense for the Prototype mk.II to be a more powerful weapon of war, especially considering it's basically the last of what can be considered the first generation of mobile suits. The movable frame changed everything. So think of the Prototype mk.II as the GP-05 and you'll get a better sense of its place.
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Sep 16, 2014 22:47
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BlitzBlast posted:Literally the entire point of both the mkII and the Zeta is that they were way more mobile than anything else in their tech generation at the time they were introduced, how does that even work? The gundam wiki article actually kind of explains why it is better than the normal MKII but wasn't considered for mass production. It was faster, had better armaments, and better armor, but was also absurdly expensive, had a very low operating time, and took a cyber newtype to even pilot the thing.
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Sep 16, 2014 23:01
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I'm a huge strategy/wargame fan and started reading this thread primarily because of that particular interest (great thread by the way), but now I'm also watching Mobile Suit Gundam and really enjoying it. Which is somewhat unfortunate because now I really, really wish this game was in English  .
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Sep 23, 2014 21:20
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Problem solved, maybe! From the OP:Tobias Grant posted:is this game in English?
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Sep 24, 2014 11:37
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BlitzBlast posted:Literally the entire point of both the mkII and the Zeta is that they were way more mobile than anything else in their tech generation at the time they were introduced, how does that even work? Anaheim Electronic's entire modus operendai appears to be just overdesign something until they're told to stop.
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Sep 24, 2014 15:57
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Khisanth Magus posted:The gundam wiki article actually kind of explains why it is better than the normal MKII but wasn't considered for mass production. It was faster, had better armaments, and better armor, but was also absurdly expensive, had a very low operating time, and took a cyber newtype to even pilot the thing. Of course in the real world were people actually have to develop technology you end up with prototypes that are in various states of barely-working, using older engines that probably have way too little power to *really* power the prototype because the new ones aren't anywhere near ready yet, the code for the computer isn't done yet and parts of the plane keeps falling off/lighting on fire. And to top it off someone installed the ejection system upside-down. In Gundam they just have the awesome technology sitting on a shelf and you can barely pry the engineers off the prototype to keep them from adding more awesome poo poo on-top until it costs as much as a small fleet. Then someone has to explain to the board why the mass-production version developed 6 months later does none of the things the prototype does while costing 3x over the older MP models and needing 4 times the fuel capacity (in huge external tanks that make them useless for ground-ops) to fly around for half as long. Meanwhile the people in charge of logistics are trying to find spares for the now outdated older model which was produced in a run total of 50 units, using a unique one-of-a-kind plasma coil for their vagina hat beam canon tl;dr Anaheim are a bunch of jerks 
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Sep 24, 2014 19:36
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Somehow Zeon doesn't have this problem, their mp units are pretty much the same as the prototypes.
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Sep 25, 2014 11:48
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mkwong98 posted:Somehow Zeon doesn't have this problem, their mp units are pretty much the same as the prototypes. Because the mook units are pretty much made by design to be MP. While all the overexpensive prototypes are commander/ace pilot one-offs.
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Sep 25, 2014 12:05
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This makes me think fondly of the Nemo.
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Sep 25, 2014 12:30
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mkwong98 posted:Somehow Zeon doesn't have this problem, their mp units are pretty much the same as the prototypes. The Federation and Zeon basically approach design from opposite directions for most mobile suits. The Federation creates massively powerful, nigh-unstoppable prototype one-offs with all the best poo poo they can bolt on and then scales back massively for the mass production run. Zeon generally makes bare-bones proof of concept prototypes like the Psycommu Zaku for the Zeong or the Gouf Flight Type for the Dom, iterates them into a mass production model, and then creates one-off improved commander or custom variants for aces using the mass production models as a base. This doesn't apply for mobile armors, where Zeon follows the Federation "gently caress it let's throw all the goofy poo poo we can into a wunderwaffen" design pattern.
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Sep 26, 2014 14:22
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Zeons problem is more that they make a new mass-production grunt suit design every other week, so by the time the Feddies show up with their first grunt MP unit Zeon got about a dozen out-dated designs all vying for spare parts  *Mostly* reserved for their batshit Marine MS design divisions.
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Sep 26, 2014 16:50
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Look, being underwater is just like being in space, and it covers 70% of the Earth's surface. Of course you're going to spend most of your money focusing on that environment.
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Sep 26, 2014 16:57
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Oh it's not a bad idea for dominating Earth, gotta wonder how the Feddies let that ball drop so hard but I guess they didn't figure anyone would get that far in the first place (see: Their lovely Earth forces in general). But you gotta ask yourself if you really *need* tentacles on your Mobile Suit. Or Boomerangs. Or giant Drills. Might have been the Super Robot department designing those though
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Sep 26, 2014 17:16
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Pimpmust posted:Oh it's not a bad idea for dominating Earth, gotta wonder how the Feddies let that ball drop so hard but I guess they didn't figure anyone would get that far in the first place (see: Their lovely Earth forces in general). Eh, giant drills on an aquatic mobile suit isn't a bad idea. See an enemy sub? Swim up to it, drill a hole in the side. Congrats, you just killed an entire sub worth of people, move on. And who wouldn't want tentacles on their mobile suit?
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Sep 26, 2014 17:18
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Squid have tentacles, they do fine. What have you got against the cephalopods? Why you gotta be so anthropocentric?
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Sep 26, 2014 17:25
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Look, racks of boomerangs that just happen to look like really cool hair with gel in it is simply the most practical way to see if a giant humanoid robot can hunt giant kangaroo shaped robots. So you know. Just... slow your roll.
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Sep 26, 2014 21:34
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Khisanth Magus posted:Eh, giant drills on an aquatic mobile suit isn't a bad idea. See an enemy sub? Swim up to it, drill a hole in the side. Congrats, you just killed an entire sub worth of people, move on. Or you could just shoot it with a gun or a torpedo.
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Sep 26, 2014 22:24
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Gaius Marius posted:Or you could just shoot it with a gun or a torpedo. True, but a drill doesn't have limited ammunition in the traditional sense. It could be pretty lightweight, space efficient, and comparatively more subtle weapon.
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Sep 26, 2014 23:08
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Katsuma posted:True, but a drill doesn't have limited ammunition in the traditional sense. It could be pretty lightweight, space efficient, and comparatively more subtle weapon. If there's one thing I know about Giant Robot Drills, it's that they're anything but subtle.
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Sep 27, 2014 00:19
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Katsuma posted:True, but a drill doesn't have limited ammunition in the traditional sense. It could be pretty lightweight, space efficient, and comparatively more subtle weapon. Kind of an oxymoron there, drills are anything but light and space/energy efficient, because they need to use friction to DRILL through things. Meaning they need to be hard/dense therefor heavy, and need to be powered by a heavy torque energy slurping motor. While also a heavy hydraulic installation that gradually eases it into what it needs to drill through without glancing off wildly, like a metal worker using a hand drill to drill steel plates, which is never because they use specialized tools. You're better off using a missile, but you might say: "Well Sam once you fire a missile you no longer have a missile" And I'd say; "Once you drill through things you need to replace your drill head and get the old one refurbished in a specialist machine shop using rare materials." Average drills for hard materials    Average anti armor missiles   The shittiest battle buss could theoretically blast 8 tanks, and be mounted with a variety of warheads for taking out infantry, heavy-fortifications and even low flying aircraft. While in James Bond Tomorrow never dies, the villain uses a stealth boat to lower an RC torpedo drill into the water to sink Frigates:  Note that the drill in reality would bounce off the hull of a ship unless it was steadied by arms that would (magnetically) clamp themselves to the hull, allowing the drill to steadily chip away at the steel hull. He could have actually used this bitchin' Russian super torpedo that moves at almost the speed of sound under water, and has been boasted to sink ANY vessel:  It does this by going under the vessel and detonating it's warhead, the resulting gas-bubble rises under the hull and sometimes literally caries the ship out of the water and breaks it in two. Most modern torpedo's already do this, this one just does it REALLY fast.
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Sep 27, 2014 16:47
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Samuel posted:All kinds of neat stuff! Well, color me educated! Are you an engineer? I didn't expect to learn so many neat factoids in an anime robot thread. Of course, Giant Robots aren't subject to such mundane things as part replacements and "mean time between failures" and suchlike. Gundam maybe be relatively "hard" science fiction compared to a lot of anime, but it ain't that hard.
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Sep 27, 2014 17:25
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Accountant and HR with too many hobbies. I have a broad set of interests, and I'm really getting into mechanical engineering so I can figure it into my cosplay's, but also because I really like making and designing things. I'm going to do another write up of Zeon R&D tomorrow because of surprising thread activity.
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Sep 27, 2014 19:53
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