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Tubgoat posted:Could engineers really get it more wrong than bankers though? I'm honestly not sure how. gently caress google too. Any company that has to tell you they aren't evil, probably is. Kind of like if you have to tell people you're cool, you aren't.
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Mar 22, 2014 17:36
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forbidden lesbian posted:Link the tweets. https://twitter.com/JustineTunney To be honest there are too many to post. quote:Liberalism, marxism, and fascism probably killed more people last century than all the other religions put together. quote:I’m absolutely a loyalist to Google. I’m proud of that. Are you proud to be a loyalist of the U.S. Regime? quote:People complained a lot about Occupy not having a leader. So if you guys want a leader, why not pick the best? Pick Eric Schmidt. That said, it is all inane gibberish.
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Mar 22, 2014 17:39
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more friedman units posted:I can't buy it, she's way too ridiculous: She may be enjoying the negative attention, but it is her actual, stupid as hell, beliefs. AstheWorldWorlds posted:It is probably the case that this is true for most. Nevertheless, invoking something as specific as the dark enlightenment as a way of describing a similarity to your own views does not bode well for your ideological framework in terms of not resembling fascism. I guess she could be the Strasser of the dark enlightenment? I don't think she's unaware that she's literally asking for corporate control of the government with a fetish towards the already rich in general.
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Mar 22, 2014 17:45
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I'm done with politics.
Earth fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 17:48
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Tubgoat posted:Could engineers really get it more wrong than bankers though? I'm honestly not sure how. Google engineers, at least, live in a bubble reality where everyone makes like 85k a year and is comfortable beyond belief. So when they're blowjobbing their latest disruptive app that calls drivers to your GPS locale, they can't understand why people wouldn't loveto use them. Currently, theyre busy gentifying the gently caress out of San Franciscan neighborhoods, and wondering why their arrival isn't being hailed. (the sudden jump in rents and economic displacements don't factor into their worldview). So I can easily see folks like these catering to the upper echelon tech savvy to the expense of everyone that can't afford a Tesla. Or, you could try and dig up the World Ruled by Code thread and see how little regard was paid to anyone without a smartphone. (Hint: the concept that poores wouldn't Uber their way to work because, you know, they're poor and can ride the bus, was never considered.... And ultimately it became 'well tech has to aim for the top to start with so the poor will have to wait for it to come down and be affordable') FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 17:50
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We should make an economy based on facebook likes.
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Mar 22, 2014 17:51
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The problem with technocrats is that typically people are very good at one field and very bad at every other, and typically those same people think that they're good in every field and don't like to take advice from others.
computer parts fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 17:55
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FilthyImp posted:Google engineers, at least, live in a bubble reality where everyone makes like 85k a year and is comfortable beyond belief. So when they're blowjobbing their latest disruptive app that calls drivers to your GPS locale, they can't understand why people wouldn't loveto use them. Also tend to be horrible people that get meltdowns over their new adopted area like whining about frigid SF girls not wanting have sex with successful startup nerds and the city having too many homeless people. http://uptownalmanac.com/2013/08/tech-founder-complains-about-shithole-city-hes-forced-make-his-millions Also the starting salary for Google is around $100,000 in addition to all the fringe perks such as the famous white google buses.
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Mar 22, 2014 17:58
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Ardennes posted:https://twitter.com/JustineTunney It's more neoreactionary than her joking lets on. If we're lucky, maybe all the ancaps and pseudo-technocrats will trend towards this Dark Enlightenment stuff where they can be even more easily made fun of. The Dark Enlightenment people are the Strassers of the "third positionists," in a warped sort of way. MothraAttack fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 18:02
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FilthyImp posted:Google engineers, at least, live in a bubble reality where everyone makes like 85k a year and is comfortable beyond belief. So when they're blowjobbing their latest disruptive app that calls drivers to your GPS locale, they can't understand why people wouldn't loveto use them. This isn't a "Google engineer" thing, this is an all of techy buttholes who moved to the bay area in recent years, and decided that commuting from an expensive city to jobs 50 miles away in the suburbs was a good idea thing. And also those who move to SF and work in some trendy office complex actually in SF.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:04
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Tubgoat posted:Could engineers really get it more wrong than bankers though? I'm honestly not sure how. The problem would come from, first, the relative isolation of whatever caste of professionals we're ceding ruling authority to, which would become geometrically worse if they did get actual ruling authority, and second, from the vast harms they would probably inflict either to maintain their power or out of simple well-meaning endeavor that didn't go anywhere. Someone replied to my reference to the 1930s Technocrats with saying they were guys with a hard-on for giant dam projects - well, what happens when the engineer-kings dam up literally every river? Maybe there are benefits, maybe it's just a huge boondoggle; either way there are down sides. On a personal level, enough of these guys seem to subscribe to drat-fool ideas on a regular basis that I would be leery to give them power. This doesn't mean that financial people are necessarily any smarter, of course. All that said, I certainly wouldn't complain if you had things like the FCC being directed by disinterested tech heads with large stipends that warded off the influence of money in their later life.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:05
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Earth posted:D&D has an obvious bias against STEM chat. If you buy into the belief that certain policies have certain outcomes. Which I believe most people here do buy into the understanding the "knowable consequences of policy." Then taking the leap to believe that having a type of world you'd like to live in and building the policies to build that world is not a leap, but a small step. Your knowable consequences bit also seems fallacious, because you can never quite be sure how your policies will play out. Let's build housing for poor people so they they're not destitute! Ok, except the building are designed like giant concrete pens with no green space and no community centers. Oops, you just created the projects. Let's allow campaign contributions to be counted as political speech. Oops, now the moneyfolk have no reason to go through political party channels and instead are propping up their own candidates. Or try one from the tech field. I just made an app that calls a driver to you. Oops the system is overburdenes from 11 to 1. Prices skyrocket. Or, oops the driver got into a terrible accident while waiting for a fare, but he's.not part of an association so he doesn't get any coverage for his injuries aside from what his existing insurance catches.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:07
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Install Windows posted:This isn't a "Google engineer" thing, this is an all of techy buttholes who moved to the bay area in recent years, and decided that commuting from an expensive city to jobs 50 miles away in the suburbs was a good idea thing. And also those who move to SF and work in some trendy office complex actually in SF. I think everyone can agree the whole startup culture narcissistic mindset is pretty terrible as a rule of thumb and also lolling how she went from OWS activist to worshipping google.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:08
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I worship the internet as well, please respect my religious beliefs, for the love of Lain.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:11
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lol Nothing says true left wing grassroots activists like loving your corporate job and identity more than anything else etalian fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 18:15
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etalian posted:lol In fairness Google makes it a point to basically make sure you never leave work and deal with things like "social situations".
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Mar 22, 2014 18:18
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forbidden lesbian posted:I worship the internet as well, please respect my religious beliefs, for the love of Lain. Everything is connected. Fulfill the prophecy. Nessus posted:On a personal level, enough of these guys seem to subscribe to drat-fool ideas on a regular basis that I would be leery to give them power. See also: any and all buttcoin threads we've ever had.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:18
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I yearn for the 80s where in movies, technology was always considered the bad, scary thing that would always eventually take over the world sometime around the early 21st century due to the influence of tech culture and corporate power.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:21
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ayn rand hand job posted:We should make an economy based on facebook likes. CEOsident Schmidt would form international alliances by adding other heads of state to a Google Plus circle.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:25
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Joementum posted:CEOsident Schmidt would form international alliances by adding other heads of state to a Google Plus circle. Also would make a crime to use facebook instead of Google+
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Mar 22, 2014 18:28
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Joementum posted:CEOsident Schmidt would form international alliances by adding other heads of state to a Google Plus circle. News will be determined by what's trending YouTube and Twitter.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:35
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We will change the flag every day to a new design honoring a great American.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:37
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3gwyHNo7MI This whole Adam Curtis series really is a must see when it comes to Technocracy and modern civilization 'Each of those people down there is unique, yet each is part of some cluster or some group in society. And each group is governed by a set of iron laws as unchanging as the laws of nature, physics, and the mechanical sciences.' - Gosplan Bureaucrat Generally it seems like the goal these days is to destroy the idea of the commons and public services. An ancap would never say that Google and other tech companies should pay the local government to provide better mass transit for everyone.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:38
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Oh, wait. CNN already does that.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:41
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etalian posted:I think everyone can agree the whole startup culture narcissistic mindset is pretty terrible as a rule of thumb and also lolling how she went from OWS activist to worshipping google. Most of the Occupy people openly praised technology companies from the start, and especially her. So that's not really a change out of her. The idea that Occupy as a whole was against all companies ever is a mischaracterization.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:52
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FilthyImp posted:Currently, theyre busy gentifying the gently caress out of San Franciscan neighborhoods, and wondering why their arrival isn't being hailed. It's not really fair to blame tech companies for gentrification. San Francisco is making a conscious decision to remain a low-density area rather than building upwards. The high salaries in tech sectors are certainly fuel for the fire, but it ain't Google engineers setting zoning densities, and it's not Google engineers who aren't passing rent controls. It's just fashionable to rage on (read: assault) tech workers because they're relative newcomers to the city and others were there before it was cool. For that matter a lot of the "historic" buildings aren't constructed that well and tend not to fare that great in earthquakes. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 18:55
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The Federal Reserve will be repealed. Currency will be issued in Dogecoin.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:55
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Would be pretty funny to have the whole government be run by bay area startup weirdos.
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Mar 22, 2014 18:58
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As someone unfamiliar with this particular brand of insanity, I have to say that this thread has been both very entertaining and pretty goddamned horrifying. I guess Justine Tunney is what happens when someone is a special mixture of ignorant, privileged, and totally without self-awareness. Also, I long suspected that Occupy was rudderless and basically useless. This just adds another layer of awful. edit: Ça Ira 2.0 posted:
Badera fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 18:59
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A occupy protester calling for a fascist technocracy, that's pretty uniquely American, I tell you hwat.
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Mar 22, 2014 19:04
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FilthyImp posted:I dont buy the STEM chat assumption. I think people are against technocratic solutions and 'data driven' bullshit. Congratulations, you have described a caricature. You seem to be of the opinion that our predictive power for evaluating policies must be perfect, otherwise we can just go back to ideology driven (or "common sense") policies. Now let's cut social spending so those lazy poors get jobs or something  .However, any improvement in predictive ability beyond the current state of "completely terrible" is a step forward. Furthermore, we have past experience of how policies play out and what side effects they have (and we know that e.g. few people want to live in concrete bunkers with no green space in sight) and we can also use the expertise of social scientists (gasp!) to consider how people might respond to policies. Fundamentally, the point of a technocratic government is not More Power to Silicon Valley or building ~rational~ housing units even if they're poo poo to live in. A scientific approach to government could, for instance, work akin to a theory of policy where you implement policy according to the best of your knowledge, observe the effects, and improve your understanding of how people respond to policy changes and which things are relevant in assessing side effects (it's almost as if one could apply the scientific method to learn from mistakes of previous administrations  ).e: of course, what you set as the goals for the government to pursue is another question. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 19:10
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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blowfish posted:Fundamentally, the point of a technocratic government is not More Power to Silicon Valley or building ~rational~ housing units even if they're poo poo to live in. A scientific approach to government could, for instance, work akin to a theory of policy where you implement policy according to the best of your knowledge, observe the effects, and improve your understanding of how people respond to policy changes and which things are relevant in assessing side effects (it's almost as if one could apply the scientific method to learn from mistakes of previous administrations Right, it seems clear that greasing the Valley's wheels is not the outcome of such talk. The thing is that a lot of ancap/Singularity/libertarian right geek chat is vocally anti-democratic -- they use technology or public choice theory or whatever to undermine self determination in favor of a positivist method that, while beneficial to some groups in theory, pretty much neglects two centuries of social science. I get what you're saying and such an attitude could achieve utilitarian goals, but I just don't think that's how they see it, and I think by advocating that you expose yourself to lots of understandable criticism. MothraAttack fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 19:17
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Optimus Subprime posted:A occupy protester calling for a fascist technocracy, that's pretty uniquely American, I tell you hwat. Would rather have a Helios benevolent dictatorship much better than the current government bureaucrat:  
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Mar 22, 2014 19:18
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ayn rand hand job posted:News will be determined by what's trending YouTube and Twitter. This is already the case.
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Mar 22, 2014 19:22
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I'm done with politics.
Earth fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 19:22
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MothraAttack posted:Right, it seems clear that greasing the Valley's wheels is not the outcome of such talk. The thing is that a lot of ancap/Singularity/libertarian right geek chat is vocally anti-democratic -- they use technology or public choice theory or whatever to undermine self determination in favor of a positivist method that, while beneficial to some groups in theory, pretty much neglects two centuries of social science. If you ask assholes about their chosen method of government, the result is going to involve poo poo 
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Mar 22, 2014 19:25
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blowfish posted:If you ask assholes about their chosen method of government, the result is going to involve poo poo Yeah, absolutely. I have this gut feeling that the internet and technological optimism is somehow making ancaps and others split more towards a reactionary stance.
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Mar 22, 2014 19:31
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As far as Occupy, there is probably even nuttier people out there. Anything anti-establishment in the US is probably going to be 60-70% conspiracy theories/gold bugs/libertarians etc at this point. The Portland Occupy got distracted with fluoride and is now trying to take water services away from the city because a bunch of public money was going to be spent to cap reservoir. Ultimately, what are a much of upper middle class introverts obsessed with technology going to come up with as a form of government? Appoint their boss? Ardennes fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 19:37
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Soooo I've corresponded with Justine a few times recently when the first big round of publicity went around, including a defense against some of the more vitriolic criticism. She's responded to me directly a few times (calling me a "friend" in this video). So the joke about me and her walking into a bar isn't a total joke, even if we are. I personally think she's cracked under the fame and attention that she's trying to thrust upon herself, like a teen celebrity on a coke binge. Justine Tunney : Anarchist Politics :: Miley Cyrus : Entertainment, except instead of selling out with sex and racism, she's doing it with fascist militarism. I don't really blame Miley for her public failures because I don't really expect any human being to survive the trauma thrust on her from the constant gaze of the masses; if anything, I feel some pity and shame for humanity. I feel roughly the same way about Justine. I've voiced these opinions to her directly and publicly in the links above. I think some of her political views are backwards and that her ego probably has the habits of an inflatable tube man. Her identification with and association to the Occupy movement over the last few years may have resulted in mental health and/or substance abuse issues (and a job at google). I'd rather she sober up and adopt some serious political positions and distance herself from the occupy label (not that it's bad but that it's history) so she might become a relevant political voice in the public discourse. But she's clearly tending towards the eccentric. Makes for a joke, I suppose, but I find it all more sad than funny. RealityApologist fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 19:54
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MothraAttack posted:Yeah, absolutely. I have this gut feeling that the internet and technological optimism is somehow making ancaps and others split more towards a reactionary stance. In my experience it's not really that they're suddenly becoming more reactionary, it's just easier to tell that they're massive assholes because they're posting their poo poo opinions on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, and other very public social media sites instead of some insular little BBS with like, five members. (and it's apparently impossible to not just post every single thing that crosses your mind on social media) Ardennes posted:Ultimately, what are a much of upper middle class introverts obsessed with technology going to come up with as a form of government? Appoint their boss? And cling to the cyberpunk equivalent of the "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" fantasy, don't forget that part.
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Mar 22, 2014 19:59
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