|
A few quick suggestions and predictions. First, off here's what the Russians are likely to do. My guess would be they have a battalion+ of infantry, 6-8 tanks or self-propelled guns (possibly with company or so of desantniki, and some assorted artillery (probably Katyushas or 76mm guns). That's a very capable force and they'll probably outnumber us 1.5:1 or even 2:1 in some areas. They know that the fords are bottlenecks. If they aren't stupid, they will hit them with artillery and work to get armor overwatching the crossings as quickly as possible. They know they'll probably have numerical infantry superiority and can beat us at a belt-buckle fight. A company of Soviet submachinegunners with PPsHs is going to be a nightmare at close quarters. They can guess they're likely to have armor superiority. They can hunt down our tanks one-on-one and still have spare armor to throw in as infantry support. We should expect them to send tanks into the village and act accordingly.  Now, here's one option for us. We have our 81mms deployed from Round 1. We have pre-planned missions on 3-5 minute delays (we'll need to double-check the timings) to provide smoke cover and to hit the Russians as we cross the fords. I want to murder their infantry as they're crossing. We cross the fords as fast as we can and don't bunch up while we are doing it. I'd say we send around 1-2 companies through each ford. The mounted Grenadiers spearhead the attack, followed by the Fusilier companies. We moved into the village. 1-2 companies for after the RR station, preferably using the half-tracks for MG support. 1 company and the MG platoon go into the village and holds the Russians off at range. 1 company in the village as a tactical reserve. The tanks help out in the village, staying mobile to keep the Russians guessing. We could also do a brief feint from Round 1-4 using a few tanks to distract the Russian left flank. All our tanks would have to do is show up, shoot a few rounds, then scoot off to join the rest of the party. We have some things going for us in a straight-up infantry fight. For one, we have MG42s. That machine gun can dominate an infantry fight at range. If we can keep their SMG infantry from getting too close, we should be OK. Platoon leaders should be making sure their guns have good fields of fire and are well-protected. Remember that if you need more flexibility, you can use the "split teams" option to create a smaller fireteam with the MG42 and a few rifles. We can also use the "split teams" function to make our force look bigger. Splitting teams makes twice as many icons appear on the map and can make our force look bigger to the Russians. It's a bit gamey, but hey, it's a option. Just make sure you keep your divided teams close and in direct line of sight each other, otherwise communications breaks down. Also, if you haven't already play the demo! http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=332&Itemid=572 Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jul 2, 2014 |
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 20:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 04:28 |
|
|
Re: Weapons Company... For the mortars, it's hard to deny the responsiveness and accuracy of 81s in direct lay. While it makes them more vulnerable, if you integrate them with the infantry units they will be hard to distinguish initially. A bounding approach where one mortar platoon is in a firing position for indirect CFFs, and the other platoon is moving forward with the infantry to provide direct fire, would maximize the capabilities of the system. When certain points are reached, the platoons can swap and the stationary platoon bounds forward to assume the direct fire role. This ensures we always have a mortar platoon firing. For the HMGs, with each platoon having an organic HMG (plus SQD machine guns), the HMG platoon would be best used to offer long range suppressing or disrupting fire on key enemy avenues of approach. We need to utilize their long range and stealthiness and identify positions that allow for long range crossing fire from multiple machine guns. If we can find a knoll or forest that has LOS to the enemy fords, the HMG platoon can split up its guns and cover those areas, preferably from multiple angles. We have to assume that the Russians will have somewhat of a tank heavy force - if we can strip them of their infantry support while they are at their most vulnerable, while crossing the ford - we will be able to win the fight in the village. A combination of artillery and a good direct fire plan can do this. Tank will have to win the armor war. I recommend keeping them consolidate together, and use shoot and scoot and reverse slopes to pick off T-34s one by one. Multiple keyhole positions for the tanks, where they have a narrow field of fire, but can't be seen by the enemy outside of the field of fire, will be crucial. If we present multiple targets to only one enemy tank at a time, we have a better shot of surviving longer. TonySnow fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jul 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 20:35
|
|
|
TonySnow posted:Tank will have to win the armor war. I recommend keeping them consolidate together, and use shoot and scoot and reverse slopes to pick off T-34s one by one. Multiple keyhole positions for the tanks, where they have a narrow field of fire, but can't be seen by the enemy outside of the field of fire, will be crucial. If we present multiple targets to only one enemy tank at a time, we have a better shot of surviving longer. The good news is that the Soviet infantry don't have much in the way of organic AT capacity (they only have AT rifles and AT grenades) so they're gonna rely on tanks for close support. If we can strip the infantry of their T-34 support, then our Panzers can get within 100m of Soviet infantry with relative impunity.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 20:41
|
|
|
Some good ol'  incoming.1) We should have bought TRPs. No spotting rounds, just bombardment.on demand. 2) Fausts are not viable over 100, but if you're able to sneak a team past a flank you can wreck buttoned up tanks. I played a game versus Dublish where after crawling a hundred or two hundred meters and being exhausted, my AT team critically damaged one tank and barely missed a second before being killed at roughly fifty meters. He never saw them approaching. 3) I would not dedicated the entire weapons section to covering their treeline, merely one or two HMGs to only return fire if we start taking it. I'd keep our trailing platoon there or a squad or two for overwatch, but keep most of weapons with the main force. If we can take the objective first, having them already set up when the Commies arrive will be nice. 4) The time it takes them to get to the tip of their closest treeline we'll be at or beyond the ford. The exception is if they try to sprint through the woods or if they move over open terrain. 5) Tankers, hull down is your best friend and if we indeed don't have equality or better at range it's up to your positioning to win us tank v. tank engagements. Just keep in mind you're also a mobile machine gun and distant explosion device, so you can help harass/suppress infantry if it's a good option. Keep aware of their armor but don't tunnel vision it. 6) If Grey is willing to part with a map we can load ourselves it'll make terrain stuff like hull down easier. If not oh well just keep it in mind for your orders. 7) If I'm wrong call me so I don't shoot us in the foot.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 20:42
|
|
|
I don't like the idea of an armored feint, we really can't afford to stick around on the south side of the river and splitting up our tanks is always going to be a risk.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
unwantedplatypus posted:I don't like the idea of an armored feint, we really can't afford to stick around on the south side of the river and splitting up our tanks is always going to be a risk. Fair enough. Splitting up our forces isn't ideal. I think we should attempt some kind of deception re: our armor. Either by flaunting it and keeping our tanks moving to make the Russians think "they have Panzers everywhere!" Or by playing very conservatively and keep the Soviets wonder if we hid Tiger somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 20:49
|
|
|
We could hold a platoon in reserve and attempt to flank along the forests at the bottom of the map. [/bad idea]
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
We should keep our armor together. If we want to deceive them, we should move the tank platoon around as much as possible but always keep them together until we know we have armor superiority.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
I'm not convinced we can totally abandon the spawn side of the river. If the soviets take over our spawn, we will be essentially cornered and trapped. Plus, fording all 4 tanks at G12 will take time, and all the while the tanks are presenting their tender backsides. Nenonen, I'll support you if you introduce a proposal to upgrade our tanks to something with more bite.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 21:07
|
|
|
unwantedplatypus posted:We have the same number of points so I don't see how they could outclass us as badly as you are describing. The only major issue we face currently is that we lack long-range AT. We have two platoons of Panzergrenadiers in halftracks+ tanks for fast movers and 4 heavy mortars and 4 medium mortars for artillery. Armoured infantry (mounted) seems like a short lived choice here. 8 halftracks cost around the same as two Pz IV's or ten or so Panzerschreck teams or a 105mm howitzer battery. You could even get a Tiger or a Panther with those points. Russians can't waste points on useless halftracks so they may actually afford to bring some IS's to the fight!
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 21:13
|
|
|
If we see a significant enemy force assaulting through our spawn, then we simply adjust our defenses and defend the village. We will have an advantage on the defense as well as holding the objective. Plus, any enemies trying to attack the village have to ford the river, putting them a significant disadvantage. Edit: ^^^I feel like the tactical value of having mobile infantry outweigh having a couple more tanks. If we're getting ride of any infantry it would be better to get rid of a fusilier company. unwantedplatypus fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jul 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 21:14
|
|
|
Nenonen posted:Armoured infantry (mounted) seems like a short lived choice here. 8 halftracks cost around the same as two Pz IV's or ten or so Panzerschreck teams or a 105mm howitzer battery. You could even get a Tiger or a Panther with those points. Russians can't waste points on useless halftracks so they may actually afford to bring some IS's to the fight! So we should scrap the Panzergrenadiers (or at least get rid of their tracks) and buy some combination of artillery, infantry, and tanks I'd definitely support this. How much is an FO? unwantedplatypus posted:Edit: ^^^I feel like the tactical value of having mobile infantry outweigh having a couple more tanks. If we're getting ride of any infantry it would be better to get rid of a fusilier company. Those tracks are hosed the moment they seem anything heavier than a rifle-caliber machine gun. They can be a battle taxicab and maybe pitch in some machinegun fire and that's it. Additional tanks or artillery will pack a bigger punch and be of value throughout the game. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jul 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 21:17
|
|
|
The halftracks are vital if we want to gain an advantage while jockeying for position. Edit: If we have no halftracks, soviet tank riders WILL get to the railroad station first, and then we have to take it back from them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 21:31
|
|
|
Russians don't need halftracks, they have ridable tanks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 21:33
|
|
|
Oh poo poo, oh poo poo! Grey Hunter thread! GERMANS AND TIGERS!  Samuel fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jul 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 21:35
|
|
|
I'm almost a little glad that I am missing out on the first round, just so I can see how this is played.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 21:35
|
|
|
Third party discussion has its own thread where you can ask people for play-by-plays and explanations as well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 21:52
|
|
|
Speaking as someone with no experience, I agree that it seems like our best bet is to keep armour together - perhaps tanks should operate as pairs at the absolute minimum (i.e. if they need to split off for any reason)? That way we can hopefully minimise the effects if any of us get caught out by enemy armour.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:02
|
|
|
At the moment, the HMG's from the Weapons company should be settling in the forest at G-16 to provide a defensive flank for the mortar teams that I assume will be located just west of it. I don't know if there's a huge effect on combat abilities if the HQ team isn't close to a section so I will try to keep some reserves available in case of artillery or mortar attack. I could try sending out an HMG to H/I-14 but my main issue is not wanting to leave the Mortars unprotected.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:02
|
|
|
Dark_Swordmaster posted:Third party discussion has its own thread where you can ask people for play-by-plays and explanations as well. I assume we're not allowed to look at that?
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:03
|
|
|
the JJ posted:I assume we're not allowed to look at that? Ze azzumpcion iz korrekt. Ve are ze Germans und ve vill play vair. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jul 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:04
|
|
|
the JJ posted:I assume we're not allowed to look at that? Yeah. There was even a big honking warning in Grey Hunter's post where he announced that the German and Russian threads had been opened telling us to basically forget the third party thread even exists until everything's said and done.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:06
|
|
|
 Assuming we don't change our force composition, here is the current plan. I'm scared to move the HMGs up to G14 because they move slowly and risk being overrun by enemy vehicles. Once their bombardment is finished, the mortars+HMGs+tank hunters can move to the B8 ford.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:07
|
|
|
Looks good unless Soviets try to sneak something down those woods at row 14. It really depends on how fast they can move.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:10
|
|
|
unwantedplatypus posted:
I propose sending 1 HMG team to G-14 as scouts/forward observers. They could lay down some suppressing fire if anything tries to creep up and it would leave the main force (so to speak) of my guns back in safety to defend the mortars.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:12
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Looks good unless Soviets try to sneak something down those woods at row 14. It really depends on how fast they can move. The answer is, not faster than us moving through open ground. Also Jobbo_Fett that sounds like a good idea, feel free to do that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:16
|
|
|
Soup Inspector posted:Yeah. There was even a big honking warning in Grey Hunter's post where he announced that the German and Russian threads had been opened telling us to basically forget the third party thread even exists until everything's said and done. Just making sure that this was a 'just FYI stay out' thing and not an 'FYI come look' thing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:36
|
|
|
Grey, could I get a list of the tanks/TDs available if I ditch a fusilier company and their costs?
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:38
|
|
|
I would send a far more expendable and less valuable scout team. The ability to gently caress off is more valuable than the potential firepower ONE HMG provides. It's easy to suppress, pin, and kill the slow moving and immobile-while-deployed gun. Also, for tank movement more waypoints can often confuse your crew on how exactly to proceed and they will stop at them even if it's one in a series, so make sure when plotting your movement orders you're only using what you need.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
the JJ posted:Just making sure that this was a 'just FYI stay out' thing and not an 'FYI come look' thing. It's cool, sorry if I accidentally came off as being annoyed! Dark_Swordmaster posted:I would send a far more expendable and less valuable scout team. The ability to gently caress off is more valuable than the potential firepower ONE HMG provides. It's easy to suppress, pin, and kill the slow moving and immobile-while-deployed gun. I'm inclined to agree here. We should risk as little as we can (in terms of the value of the units we make vulnerable, that is).
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:43
|
|
|
Unless the halftracks have an area of dead space to maneuver along, any tank or HMG can hole a halftrack and murder all the poor panzer grenadiers. Speed in this case might not be enough security. As for the smoke - the mortars won't be nearly enough in my experience. You need at least a platoon of 105s. And if we do smoke that area, and they haven't advanced far enough to actually see us, it's all a big waste. Smoke is the hardest part of planning fire support. You can only really use it two ways - one, you place it right on top of a known enemy position, so that they can't see out, or two, very close to your position so that they can't see in. The former is the most effective, since they can still shoot into the latter and achieve some effect. With mortar smoke it's often better to do direct lay firing right on a tricky machine gun or ATG position, or in small danger area that you need to cross. That big open field is really too long for an effective mortar smoke screen, unless you plan to blow it all and not use any later in the game.
TonySnow fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jul 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:47
|
|
|
e: ^ The halftracks are for our initial blitz and potential relocation. They will not be combat assets beyond mobile MGs and harassment as far as I know since, as you said, they're made out of tissue paper. If Grey would allow it and others in here would want it I can throw together an effort post when I get home from work explaining the various orders and how some of the mechanics work. It would be a large post with  and pictures but I figure since we have some players new to the series it could help a little.Or just be a large clutter to the thread. 
Dark_Swordmaster fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jul 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:47
|
|
|
Dark_Swordmaster posted:If Grey would allow it and others in here would want it I can throw together an effort post when I get home from work explaining the various orders and how some of the mechanics work. It would be a large post with Go for it, its to help us after all. If no one is willing to put up a scout team or anything in G-14 than I will set up 1 HMG there to prevent any surprising movements from the lack of LOS.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 22:50
|
|
|
unwantedplatypus posted:
We need to task some tanks to go into the village and get into good ambush and keyhole positions. That forest is woefully vulnerable to Russian tanks operating from the high ground. Given the elevation, their tanks can put rounds through the top armor of tanks there. Yeah, there is a MASSIVE keyhole alone those railroad tracks. If the Soviets park any kind of AT gun, tank, or SPG there, they can completely dominate access to the RR station. I think it would behoove use to send at least two Panzers ASAP. Dark_Swordmaster posted:e: ^ The halftracks are for our initial blitz and potential relocation. They will not be combat assets beyond mobile MGs and harassment as far as I know since, as you said, they're made out of tissue paper. Which is why they need to be nixed. They're sucking points and not doing us much good. We'd be better off with more tanks (or more artillery). If we desperately wanted mounted troops, buy a couple of trucks and stuff a Fusilier platoon in them. Then have them make the dash. TonySnow posted:As for the smoke - the mortars won't be nearly enough in my experience. You need at least a platoon of 105s. Seconding the call for more artillery. Mortars can probably do some basic smoking, but we need to murder the Soviets as they ford the river. If we plan a 105mm mission to arrive 5 mins after the start, we're going to hammer the Soviets as they cross.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 23:00
|
|
|
I'm a much bigger fan of putting HE into the treeline instead of smoke between us and the danger zone. We know that it's the only position that has LOS on us. Even if it 'just' forces their tanks to button up we've got a pretty good advantage there. Esp. if we can get some shooters into H-I 14.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 23:02
|
|
|
Jobbo_Fett posted:If no one is willing to put up a scout team or anything in G-14 than I will set up 1 HMG there to prevent any surprising movements from the lack of LOS. I seriously advise you let the trailing platoon take the honors. You can split a two-man scout team off one squad and park it there, maybe even keep the whole squad parked there. Two guys with Kar98s are far easier to accept than three dudes and a support asset. the JJ posted:I'm a much bigger fan of putting HE into the treeline instead of smoke between us and the danger zone. We know that it's the only position that has LOS on us. Even if it 'just' forces their tanks to button up we've got a pretty good advantage there. Esp. if we can get some shooters into H-I 14. Preemptive I would say let's not to conserve valuable rounds, but if you mean after we establish there are a few squads to a platoon in there, sure.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 23:08
|
|
|
There's not nearly enough artillery to go around to hit stuff we think might be there. Once we're in the town, mortars will be of limited use. We need to split the rounds we do have between denying/harassing the Russians at the fords (which we KNOW they have to cross) and hitting stuff that is stopping our movement across the same. Mortars don't have a big enough kill radius to keep shooters out of an entire treeline. We would need to get shells 15-25m away to achieve any sort of suppression effects or casualties.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 23:12
|
|
|
Dark_Swordmaster posted:I seriously advise you let the trailing platoon take the honors. You can split a two-man scout team off one squad and park it there, maybe even keep the whole squad parked there. Two guys with Kar98s are far easier to accept than three dudes and a support asset. Do you mean the HQ team, splitting an HMG team or someone else's men?
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 23:14
|
|
|
Bacarruda posted:We need to task some tanks to go into the village and get into good ambush and keyhole positions. That forest is woefully vulnerable to Russian tanks operating from the high ground. Given the elevation, their tanks can put rounds through the top armor of tanks there. 1. The height difference you describe doesn't appear to be that major, upon inspection of the flyover video. 2. The tanks, ideally, would move into the village after they finish shooting at the fording units or they took too much return fire 3. Trucks won't be as fast as halftracks, a good 80% of the trip to the railroad would be offroad If 2 still isn't feasible then we need at least an artillery spotter there. As for HE vs Smoke for the mortars, I'll leave that up to the company commander.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 23:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 04:28 |
|
|
TonySnow posted:There's not nearly enough artillery to go around to hit stuff we think might be there. Once we're in the town, mortars will be of limited use. We need to split the rounds we do have between denying/harassing the Russians at the fords (which we KNOW they have to cross) and hitting stuff that is stopping our movement across the same. Mortars don't have a big enough kill radius to keep shooters out of an entire treeline. We would need to get shells 15-25m away to achieve any sort of suppression effects or casualties. Still, but you're looking at similar problems with smoking.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2014 23:16
|
|