|
This highlights the problems with NINE AXIS ALIGNMENT. The Dragon's motivation is to sleep on gold because it feels good on its scales. So it takes treasures from the weaker "lesser" creatures the same way humans take honey, fur, or meat from what we consider lesser creatures. But this somehow makes the Dragon capitol E Evil, aligned with the most vile forces in the cosmology.
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 14:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 01:26 |
|
|
Fuschia tude posted:So you've made fantasy Liberia? Edit: I see the problem, given traditional representations of Africans as being savage ape men. Better make sure I describe the ape men as being white furred. ascendance fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Oct 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 14:40
|
|
|
moths posted:This highlights the problems with NINE AXIS ALIGNMENT. The Dragon's motivation is to sleep on gold because it feels good on its scales. So it takes treasures from the weaker "lesser" creatures the same way humans take honey, fur, or meat from what we consider lesser creatures. But this somehow makes the Dragon capitol E Evil, aligned with the most vile forces in the cosmology.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 14:41
|
|
|
The problem with fantasy (and all current fiction) is the need to explain everything. An example (not D&D) are the aliens in the Metro 2033. They want to share and co-exist with humanity but their presence and attempts to communicate are an anathema to humans. So, the character (and player) is not able to know about the aliens, as a point in the story. The idea that players or the audience needs to know the orc life cycle or dragon reproduction feeds the need for media to consume but it is never truly enjoyable. Arousing curiosity in players is far more effective IMO in gameplay. Warhammer 40k is probably better at this than any other setting because mystery is baked into the setting throughout. That's why you see stuff like slenderman and SCP as an (over) reaction to constant lore bombs and explanations in sci-horror. People want monsters to be scary and mystery is apart of the fear. The old man keter could be a demon stealing sould or could be angel punishing sinners. You don't know, you only know he wants to hurt you and how. Strolling up to an orc camp comes off as lifting the veil too high. temple fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Oct 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 14:46
|
|
|
If you think western fantasy explains too much, check out some anime. Attack on Titan is particularly bad at not explaining anything.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 14:59
|
|
|
moths posted:I mean that the strength is that when different factions exist within the same species, the evil ones are physiologically identical to the good ones. GW Dark Elves are Romulans to their Vulcans, rather than D&D's Curse of Just...uh...never look at how they describe any of the non-European human villains. Or rewrite those some. The whole thing with the Hung, the Arabians, etc is pretty bad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 15:07
|
|
|
If you don't have baby dragons than you don't get this happening: look at that smug fighter (like he did anything in the fight, it was all the wizard obviously)
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 15:26
|
|
|
Mr Beens posted:look at that smug fighter (like he did anything in the fight, it was all the wizard obviously) I dunno man, that dragon's pretty cut up and has at least one arrow sticking out of it. I'm betting the two people with swords and torn pants actually fought it and Shortbow Goldenhair there contributed an arrow, while the wizard was comparing beards with warhammer guy in Leomund's Tiny Hut if you know what I mean. Actually, I bet that's not even a dragon. Look at that tiny box of loot. Treasure type H, my arse. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Oct 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 15:42
|
|
|
temple posted:The problem with fantasy (and all current fiction) is the need to explain everything.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 17:02
|
|
|
That's not a baby dragon it's an adult drake / 
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 17:07
|
|
|
temple posted:The problem with fantasy (and all current fiction) is the need to explain everything. Have you checked out Numenera? It's a lot like a Gene Wolfe and Lovecraft collaboration world-wise and prides itself on being weird as hell and unexplainable. "People can only assume" is an official explanation descriptor for many major facets of the world. If you like that stuff, it's very cool while also adaptable.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 17:07
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:Someone hasn't read Malazan Book of the Fallen. Edit: Its like the best authors just completely disregard what the fans want, which is impossible amounts of exacting detail about stupid things.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 17:31
|
|
|
Fuschia tude posted:So you've made fantasy Liberia? Fantasy Liberia is the new Fantasy Vietnam, calling it here.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 17:34
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:Someone hasn't read Malazan Book of the Fallen. It's amazing how Erikson wrote 10,000 pages without explaining much. Actually, isn't that series based on a D&D campaign? I'd be curious to see what he did with the Malazan soldier. Maybe the solution to fighters being underwhelming is to give them all grenades?
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 17:35
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:It's amazing how Erikson wrote 10,000 pages without explaining much. It was GURPS.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 17:40
|
|
|
ascendance posted:Or Game of Thrones. O wait. Its like successful fantasy series have to preserve a sense of mystery and the fantastic. The irony here is that GRRM is disregarding the fans' desire for a new installment of the story by releasing a history/atlas that will fulfill the fans' desire to have everything spelled out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 17:49
|
|
|
ObMeiste posted:Fantasy Liberia is the new Fantasy Vietnam, calling it here.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 18:03
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:if you want to play a demigod that's cool but its kind of obvious why 5e fighter was never going to be this. Really Pants posted:What if your Fighter got brainsucked, but won some kind of opposed roll and took over the Intellect Devourer's old critter body? Would he be more effective? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_3xrqjTyes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY0N12w3csI Jackard fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Oct 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 18:05
|
|
|
Andrast posted:It was GURPS. I heard rumors that a d20 publisher was interested in licensing it, and I threw up a little in my mouth. Because nothing says Malazan like statting out Fiddler as Sapper 8/Bridgeburner 5/Veteran 8/Seer 2 or some other dumb poo poo d20 nonsense.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 19:40
|
|
|
goldjas posted:It's weird that people attribute bosses with multiple phases to World of Warcraft, I remember running DND back in like high school before WoW even came out and running bosses with multiple phases, because I had already played other games over 10 years ago even then that had bosses with multiple phases. It's not a new concept.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 20:04
|
|
|
Jackard posted:How many phases did the final boss of Chrono Trigger have again? FF6? FF7? EDIT: Having checked youtube, Lavos had three to five depending on how you want to score it when he 'changes attack modes'. But you started fighting the outer shell, moved to the outer core and then fought the final inner core weird looking thing with his bits. NorgLyle fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Oct 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 20:40
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Actually, isn't that series based on a D&D campaign? I'd be curious to see what he did with the Malazan soldier. Maybe the solution to fighters being underwhelming is to give them all grenades? This is probably a tangent but I'd play the poo poo out of a 'bringing guns to a macuahuitl fight' musketeer fighter. Roll in all conquistador style with black powder bombs, early firearms, steel helm, breastplate, and sword, hell yes. I doubt you'd ever see something like that done well just because it's right at the unholy intersection of 'Not giving mundanes nice things', 'ew guns in DnD are icky', and 'It doesn't -feel- like a real DnD fighter anymore'.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 20:41
|
|
|
Crasical posted:This is probably a tangent but I'd play the poo poo out of a 'bringing guns to a macuahuitl fight' musketeer fighter. Roll in all conquistador style with black powder bombs, early firearms, steel helm, breastplate, and sword, hell yes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 22:32
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:From what I understand it started as AD&D, but moved to GURPS. Well, apparently he rolled out a large part of the first book and apparently even the end of the tenth, which is weird. So it'd be interesting to see the original AD&D character sheet. Malazan sappers are pretty unique in fantasy as far as I know - tinker gnomes/goblins are similar with their explosives, but those are usually used comically instead of what Erikson does.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2014 23:01
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:You can do that in Warhammer, but I have some bad news about those guys with the macuahuitls... With all the Malazan discussion, I have actually included in my game most of the sapper explosives. Characters can get both Cussers and the big explosives. I didn't include the plastic explosive or the burners. ascendance fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Oct 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 00:05
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Maybe the solution to fighters being underwhelming is to give them all grenades? I could get behind this. No matter how complex or unintuitive a class is, give them some grenades and the players will always know what to do with them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 03:05
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:I could get behind this. No matter how complex or unintuitive a class is, give them some grenades and the players will always know what to do with them. A good idea. I can't see any
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 04:25
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:A good idea. An even if they do, whatever they end up doing will probably be hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 04:30
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:I could get behind this. No matter how complex or unintuitive a class is, give them some grenades and the players will always know what to do with them. One time a pickpocket took off with our bag of sonic moonstones... shouted the command word after him and the shockwave shattered every window in town.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 06:41
|
|
|
dichloroisocyanuric posted:Have you checked out Numenera? It's a lot like a Gene Wolfe and Lovecraft collaboration world-wise and prides itself on being weird as hell and unexplainable. "People can only assume" is an official explanation descriptor for many major facets of the world. If you like that stuff, it's very cool while also adaptable. Numenera goes the other way too far. Like, it says "There were eight previous worlds; one of them was psychic, one was bio-tech, one was hardtech, and I dunno, make up some more poo poo." And that is almost literally it. It's one of the loving stupid things that book did. It has a lovely Lonely Planet guide to the world, describing, say, the salt-worshipping cult and its leader in detail, but it can't even get Eberron-smart and tell you what cool ways PCs might interact with that cult, whether the cult could be good or evil or gray, or what secret stuff the cult has or may have. The book doesn't say anything about how the mysteries of the cult might fit in with the mysteries of the world, and it doesn't have fun even hinting at possibilities. It leaves everything, every single thing, unexplainable, promises the players that some things might get explained at least a little, and offers the GM no help at all. The theme of the game is supposed to be discovery and the game does nothing to make things discovered cool or to make the act of discovery cool. Sorry if I'm coming off hostile. I love almost all the stuff Monte Cook has done for Dungeons and Dragons. But Numenera is watery poo poo in almost every capacity.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 07:39
|
|
|
Numenera is possibly the worst game I have ever seen for caster supremacy. Its like, at Rank 5, the fighters get +2 to damage, and the casters get control all machines, or create an illusion several miles in size.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 07:43
|
|
|
I think it's level two that casters get Hold Person. Except in this system that means that they can then cast that spell for free, at will and without limit. Level two. At the last level, wizards get Move Mountain and Super Teleport while fighters get Leap Attack.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 08:09
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:A good idea. In the case of D&D, probably bitch about the fact that anyone can have a bag of grenades, so the Wizard should have one too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 09:42
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:In the case of D&D, probably bitch about the fact that anyone can have a bag of grenades, so the Wizard should have one too. Worse, they'll get some spell that makes them better at using grenades than the fighter.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 10:00
|
|
|
Ratoslov posted:Worse, they'll get some spell that makes them better at using grenades than the fighter. This literally happened in a Zeitgeist game I've been running, PCs bought grenades and mage hand shenanigans ensued.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 10:48
|
|
|
I've been playing 7th Sea as a bomb-tossing Porte mage, and can vouch for the pure joy that is magical bomb-tossing shenanigans.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 12:35
|
|
|
Ratoslov posted:Worse, they'll get some spell that makes them better at using grenades than the fighter.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 14:23
|
|
|
Dart posted:This literally happened in a Zeitgeist game I've been running, PCs bought grenades and mage hand shenanigans ensued.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 14:46
|
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:Actually with the way Paizo nerfed hand grenades it is far better to chuck em without mage hand.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 15:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 01:26 |
|
|
AlphaDog posted:Looks like I'm going to be playing this again in the next month or so, with a DM I trust not to run a shitshow. We have a bard at our table that really enjoys playing an all-purpose character (he's a half-elf). But it seems like the class has a lot of fun more focused options out of the gate, especially if you don't mind picking human variant to get that starting feat. Dual-wielding is very effective and powerful until higher levels. If you think it's going to take your group a long time to get through the first 10 levels, then I would strongly suggest dual-wielding and starting with the feat. Moving 30 feet and attacking with 2 rapiers in the same turn at first level is so refreshing, especially if you come from a Pathfinder background. Another option is to pick Spell Sniper and Eldritch Blast. You'll have a powerful cantrip that will scale up throughout the life of the character. If you want to go all crazy, by level 8 you could multi-class into Warlock (for added umf to your Eldritch Blast) and combine it with Sentinel and War Caster for extra fun, not to mention cool flavor. You could also make a strength-based bard that focuses on grappling. For the first few levels you won't be as effective though, so watch out if you go this route. Edit: The more I think about it, I would go totally go with option 3. You could be like a traveling performing luchadore. I would take College of Lore, to take Enlarge (to grapple super large dudes) and something Mage Armor-y (this way you can remain unarmored in style). You bard performance skills could be like wrestling and epithets. You would probably want Tavern Brawler and Grappler for your first feats. Remember to boost Althetics with Expertise at 3rd. You could eventually multi-class into Barbarian for some extra Con AC and hulk powers, but you'd be giving up spells. Also this is not a joke character. You may have to play a bit carefully with him at earlier levels, but once you hit level 6 you'll become a monster. You can completely shut down primary threats (grappling is super sticky and very powerful in this game) and provide the support of a full caster. Dahbadu fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Oct 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 22:07
|
|
