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Yeah the difference between Central and South Florida to North Florida is pretty shocking. Of course across the entire state people living in the sticks are just as uneducated and poor as the rest of the south.
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Jul 7, 2014 01:55
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icantfindaname posted:The southern borders of states like Ohio, Illinois, etc, are all ambiguous of course, but I would say Missouri as a whole is not southern. Texas and Florida are part southern, north Florida and East Texas are both 100% though. As for Delaware, Maryland and Northern Virginia yeah sure why not, they were historically in any case. Northern Virginia, especially around D.C. in places like Alexandria is very very liberal, for obvious reasons.
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Jul 7, 2014 01:58
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I don't know why people in this thread constantly bring up the idea that Southerners are less racist or more used to being around black people when I go to the largest university in the south and it's 93% white. I know college attendance is more related to economic level than race, but it's weird having gone to a highly diverse northern high school and go to a college were you can be hard pressed to find a single minority in any of your classes. The women to man ratio is interesting however, UCF has 3 women for every 2 men on campus. And the Campus is very, very liberal.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:21
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Tatum Girlparts posted:^^^What does that have to do with the south? What it has to do with the south is that while you are more likely to be around a minority in the south in a general sense, higher level education and other institutional things in the south are far, far less likely to have minorities operating in them relative to the amount of white people. And when it comes to southern universities, it's mostly to do with the fact most states (Florida included since the snake man got into office) have been loving up their education systems on which many minorities relied previously.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:27
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Anecdotally, the first university I went to was majority-minorty. Just because you go to a predominantly white school doesn't mean everyone does. I'm only using my school as an example due to it's size, and often size being a good indicator of better population selection. But like I said in the rest of my post lack of minorities in southern schools is more likely due to failing education systems rather than say, everyone just being racist and when it comes to the south lovely (pre-college) education investment is a pretty big constant. Tatum Girlparts posted:You realize this is a national issue not a regional one right? I was not attempting to say "this only happening in the south" but rather trying to say that the idea that the south does have some issues with it. In none of my posts do I advocate nuking the south nor do I say I want to burn it to the ground. I have family spread all over the south, and I go to University in the south. Venom Snake fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 21:52
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Tatum Girlparts posted:You realize those of us who are southern progressives are still proud of our homes right? It's like, yea man, gently caress you if you want to act like the south is some nasty hive of single issue voters, I guess it's easier to talk about your 'disdain' for us and talk about how we need to work faster, and at the same time say change takes time to handwave away your own inaction. Southern progressives actually gives me hope the future, especially battleground Texas. Although the stereotype of the leftist circular firing squad is in full effect when it comes to cooperation with southern leftist organizations mostly due to the idea anyone from the south cannot possibly by liberal "enough" and are all blue dog democrats.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:06
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Ice Phisherman posted:words Amazing post, often while visiting my family Iv encountered similar issues such as casual racism and culture of ignorance but what probably is the greatest example to me of southern decay would be southern Virginia. For a long part of the 20th century Southern Virgina thrived on 3 things: Furniture building, tobacco, and rail. All of which has gone out of state or overseas, extremely poor investment in education and infrastructure has killed large amounts of small towns and resulted in schools with sub 50% graduation rates. It's extraordinarily sad to watch so many people utterly trapped in crippling poverty but more than happy to vote against their interests. While working on campaign our down their our biggest supporters were all minorities, I met a large amount of black people who knew how awful their situation had become and were extremely active in trying to rise out of the cycle of poverty but could not due to simply there being no resources for them to. The amount of segregation in the south is shocking really, we couldn't find a single mixed church and when we were on the road looking for democrat offices we were given directions to "black part of town".
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Jul 8, 2014 02:36
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Why are people even arguing the morality of Shermans actions? Saying we should do any military action post revolutionary war on anyone would of course be met with moral apprehension because around the time of the civil war people started using the whole "total war" idea which included targeting civilians who were part of the enemy population. Shermans march was a bad thing that happened that helped us win a war against bad people. The bombing of Dresden and other places in Germany are similar to this, or if you want to get really controversial the nuking of Japan got us an unconditional surrender. Saying Sherman shouldn't have done what he did is missing the forest for the trees, what he did helped cripple the south and end a extremely bloody war faster.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:28
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Nobody is arguing the morality. Please pay attention. Popular Thug Drink posted:It's funny that in your zeal to assert that you oppose Lost Cause mythology you end up whitewashing Sherman. Collective punishment against American civilians doesn't mean anything as long as they're in general proximity to slave owners! Explain how the term "white washing" is not about morality? Seriously why else have people spent half this thread arguing about Sherman instead of I don't know, discussing actual ways to help the southern leftist movement?
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Jul 8, 2014 04:33
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Naked Lincoln is literally whitewashing Sherman's history, incorrectly claiming that he didn't actually burn down Atlanta or indiscriminately destroy homes and towns, in order to argue that what Sherman did was moral and good. Yeah and it's stupid but engaging him in endless argument over it is pointless since the end result is him admitting Sherman did bad things, which however as I pointed out is dumb to get in a huff over because it was part of a greater strategy to end the war quicker and save more lives.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:39
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Popular Thug Drink posted:It was necessary to starve the slaves in order to save them. Are you mentally deficient? What do you think the point of total war is? The whole idea is to simply collapse your enemies ability to fight on every level be it economic, recruitment, and production. The Civil War was literally the most causality high war in American history and Lincoln wanted it over as fast as possible so yeah I would say ending the war with a Union victory and thus ending slavery as well as the massive amount of bloodshed was a good thing.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:55
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Yes, in the Fall of 1864 the South was on the verge of a dramatic comeback. Then again you think the atomic bombs ended WW2 so, uh, yeah. Again, you prove your ability to read words and just take out of it what ever the hell you want. I said that the dropping on the bomb forced the unconditional surrender of Japan, as formerly they would only surrender if they kept their conquered territory and an invasion of Japan was projected to have massive numbers of casualties. So yeah dropping the bomb was a BAD THING that helped prevent an EVEN WORSE THING from happening. On the subject on Shermans application of total war to the deep south, in 1864 many people were predicting unless someone was able to strike deeper into the main southern states the war would continue to drag on with the Union being forced to push the confederates all the way out of Virgina and then begin a fight in North Carolina due to the Confederacy still being able to be supplied from the southern plantations and farms as well as what ever industry the deeper southern states could manage. The point was ending the war quicker so as to avoid further loss of life and undue suffering. So much like the dropping of the atom bomb Shermans march to the sea was a BAD THING that helped prevent an EVEN WORSE THING from continuing to drag on.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:05
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Total War is always a crime and arguing over the morality of Sherman's March, the bombing of Dresden, or the nuclear bombings of Japan is a waste of time. War crimes are war crimes, regardless of their strategic advantages. This train of logic really doesn't follow well into a bigger picture, America's strategic bombing of Germany crippled German production and the war crimes the Soviet Union committed to halt the German advance into the USSR helped the allies win the war and thus bring the holocaust to an end. Independently every callous military action can be seen as a war crime, but they are not prosecuted as such due the reasons they were committed and the said effects of the war crimes in question. Saying said things should have never happened is ignoring the repercussions of inaction. Of course I guess you could argue that war in a general sense should never happen, but that's a entire different can of worms. Look I'm not trying to white wash Shermans actions, I'm just saying that viewing them as something committed just to kill southerners for no reason is just being dense.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:20
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nucleicmaxid posted:^^^Regardless of the intent, those whose region/families were affected by it are justified in disliking that it happened, I feel. And constantly bringing it up as 'a good idea we should do again!' the way some SA posters do just leads to shittiness on both sides. It is possible to disagree with slavery as a crime against humanity, and also see with Sherman's march as a rather brutal action taken against a civilian population. People tend to get mad when smug assholes who are supposed to be on their side start talking about slaughtering their friends and families because of some politicians.^^^ Well of course, but nobody actually thinks the south should be burned the ground except people joke posting in GBS. On the actual subject of southern progressiveness, it's almost somewhat shocking to talk to members of the black community in the south and how resilient and motivated they are. Despite living in a climate of intense political discrimination they still push and campaign hard, which is far more than can be said for many of the white democrats Iv met in the south. Southern black priests are very interesting to talk to, you will be hard pressed to find men more informed and influential in the community than them.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:30
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Ice Phisherman posted:This blew my mind in college. There is a rapidly dwindling but still significant number of old people in the South that vote democrat because they just never realigned after the party switch. Some politicians kept their old parties and never switched (mostly the old ones) due to wanting to keep their seniority, but again, they tended to be old career politicians and didn't have a long shelf life. African American's working with what one might consider to be old school democrats is born of the same political gumption and energy I talked about earlier, they absolutely refuse to give up and will take pretty much any ally they can get against the Republicans. I have a gay friend from Alabama and the most welcoming place he found to go to church was a predominantly black church, because it's members had worked with gay advocates in the democratic party. While the thing about socially conservative black communities is somewhat true in smaller areas, most of the time Iv found black communities to be more or less accepting of everyone.
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Jul 8, 2014 13:32
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