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Probably some of you have considered this. There's a lot to talk about, and maybe we can find out together if driving for the rideshare companies is a survivable income on its own. I signed onto Uber about a week ago and have spent maybe 10 hours out on the road trolling for fares. I've had 17 pickups for a total of $252. Uber will pay 80% of that back to me every Thursday, except today because maybe they forgot or I haven't been driving long enough or whatever. If that seems low, it's because taking Uber is dirtass cheap here in Chicago, where a hopefully temporary 25% price cut has led Uber to claim that they are 40% cheaper than your standard yellow cab. In my newbie opinion, this is loving ridiculous since so many Uber drivers are driving new cars, which many of them were duped into buying for the purpose of rideshare driving. Luckily this isn't me, but it's kind of scary letting thirty strangers into my dream car. No choice, I've gotta make rent, but I will never work nights. Somebody brings an open container into your car, you're on the hook. After my background check and driving record pull came back, getting activated in their westside office took about as much time as buying a small bag of groceries at Trader Joe's. Their setup resembled that of the DMV, because that's apparently how many people they were signing up to drive every day. Many of these people will eventually find their Uber phones deactivated without warning when their driver rating falls below 4.4/5 or some similar number. If you're not unfriendly, not consistently getting lost, and if your driving doesn't make your passengers uneasy, it is not difficult to maintain a serviceable rating. However the difference between 4.6 and 4.8 is huge for you, since passengers are rated as well and you'll find yourself matched to troublemaker passengers if you don't keep your rating quite high. It is important to just try and do a good job and not think about the rating, since that will make you crazy overnight. So far, the job itself is quite enjoyable and the feeling of freedom kicks rear end. But considering what I'm giving my riders (great service, good conversation, a quick painless ride in a brand new very-comfortable car), the fares are just too low. If you don't give this to your riders, your rating will suffer and you'll get worse passengers who will accelerate the decline of your vehicle. An accident where my/Uber's insurance gives me trouble could easily erase 25% of my annual pay. By the way, insurance is still a complete loving mystery to me. Your personal insurance, no matter how swank, has every reason to deny your claim and cancel your policy if/when they find out you're using your car for rideshare. I know nothing at all of Uber's insurance. The big X factor is that if you look at it as a job and do a 10 hour shift, you can easily do $300 in fares a day, of which you may see $175 if you have a fuel efficient car. This is what can vary your after-tax take-home anywhere from $12,000 to $36,000 assuming you're working 5-day weeks. In Chicago, NY, SF etc, there is no shortage whatsoever of customers and you just keep picking them up until you're tired or have to pee.
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Jul 25, 2014 08:51
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Oh poo poo, I forgot to check A/T. Okay so this is my understanding of an Uber partner's incredibly-vague insurance situation. Accident while getting groceries, road tripping: Insurance company is very unlikely to discover or probe seriously into your ridesharing activities. Claim accepted. If it does, claim denied. Accident while logged in and accepting passengers: You run your private insurance, it will probably go through. If it doesn't, Uber's 50k/100k injury, 25k property policy applies. As discussed in the other thread, this is not very much money. Accident with a passenger: Uber's $1M commercial insurance will pay. I have no idea if this has been tested. From what I can tell, there is significant exposure to the drivers. Though I think most people, if they looked, would find that they have a fair amount of unaccounted-for exposure to liability. If someone thinks you hosed them, they can always sue and get a better lawyer than you. Though it seems to me that Uber drivers have significantly more than most. I think people are going to keep Ubering because they prefer cash and a cool job, to poverty and a job breaking down boxes at a warehouse. All that said, I have personal problems paying $220 for an auto insurance policy that could so suddenly disappear out from under me, even if I uber for a month and turn in my phone. I'm going to consider a commercial policy, though 1. it will wreck my earnings and 2. finding a single policy to cover both personal and commercial use is probably not easy at all. And I can't ask my insurance company about any of this unless I call from a loving pay phone. Uber is looking less and less attractive, and yet significantly more attractive than poverty and a poo poo-rear end job. The fact is these people don't want to be cab drivers, they want to be Uber drivers because the job is presently a blast. It's kind of sad that most Uber passengers would pay more for an UberX than a cab, and yet the company is trying to drive prices to rock bottom because they know than high unemployment will always send them more drivers. If they just undid their incessant loving fare slashing, I'm sure they could adequately cover everyone associated with the company, including those whose personal policies deny their claims. It's important to remember that Uber is run by a somewhat shady bunch of people, but the risk is unfortunately worth it to me. sources: http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance Uber’s Controversial Insurance Policy is Secret No More http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2014/03/25/draft-uber-insurance-policy/ How Many Ride-Share Drivers Are Hiding Status From Insurers? http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2014/01/20/ride-sharing-insurance-lyft-uberx-sidecar/ Are ‘Ride-Share’ Drivers at Risk of Losing Their Insurance? http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/11/14/can-lyft-uberx-drivers-lose-their-insurance agarjogger fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jul 26, 2014 |
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Jul 26, 2014 05:15
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Yesterday I picked up three big guys. They had me stop at a wine store and wait five minutes, and then proceed to drop all three of them off in spread-out locations on the North Side. Traffic was heavy, trip was just over an hour. $17.32. If Uber is having reservations about covering their drivers adequately, this is why. Their pricing is stupidly and unnecessarily cheap, since they're playing games.
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Jul 26, 2014 19:19
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Well to contrast, I just did two 45 min highway trips for a total of $110. So it seems like the rule to making money in Uber is, don't hit traffic ever. Seems like they favor mileage over time to an insane degree. If I can find a pattern which lets me repeat this: city to suburbs, suburbs to city, I could easily pay for my car by this time next year. Jesus, my diesel car gets 45 mpg on the freeway and 20 in heavy city traffic. I'm definitely going to stat this out and see where I've gotta be and when, to get the high-mileage rides outside of rush hour. agarjogger fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 05:22
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I have excellent insurance with huge limits, but why even bother pointing that out if, as you say, it won't ever help me if I get in a wreck. The fact is Uber drivers have been in plenty of accidents on and off the clock, and almost all of their claims have gone through. Yes it sucks to be paying so much for a policy that could be so easily invalidated. Once I know I'll be making enough money to pay the premiums, I will look into commercial insurance. But I'm not even sure policies yet exist that could be sold to an Uber driver. I understand completely the risk and the fact that this is a bad financial deal for the vast majority of drivers. But I have no skills, just an asset, and I need to be converting that asset to cash now to keep a roof over my head. You might, appropriately, advise me to sell the car and use the money to keep bills paid and go to trucking school. But I have a fun job and a sweet car, and it would be loving tough to give that up for something which is much worse everywhere but on a spreadsheet. e: Honestly though, when I'm keeping the doors locked for a few extra seconds to make sure the passenger doesn't open one onto a bicycle. Yes I understand this is loving precarious, and I'm be totally happy to do this for five months, and then quit and be able to finish college on the income. I understand this is the financial forum and I am making a bad financial move by driving for Uber, because of the liability. But every day I am gaining confidence and basic job competence, which I will use to finish college and/or acquire skills. I was honestly an e/n poster incapable of any of that before I started driving. agarjogger fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 05:48
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RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS posted:What "job competence" are you gaining by driving people around exactly? Taxi is not a dead-simple job to be doing. No service job is simple, especially one with the stakes of driving-for-hire. I have to decide which rides to accept by sizing people up. I have to maintain an extremely high rating by providing excellent service, because I'll need a buffer against the low ratings that will inevitably result from refusing rides, which the app gives me no easy way to do. Which I must do if I am to slow the depreciation of the car. I have to do what I say I'm going to do and be where I say I'm going to be. I have to learn traffic patterns and people patterns, that is when the trains come in, when there's an accident or a transit outage or a weather event. I have to obtain a very granular knowledge of the city, knowing which condo towers have good passengers and what time they go to work and come back. The level of service people have come to expect from UberX is pretty absurd, and you have to keep a ton of things in mind to make sure you're providing it. Doing this job is absolutely taking me from a NEET to someone prepared to do a 9-5. I no longer have any desire to sleep in, because that means there's some other gently caress out there eating my lunch and picking up all the easy fares. And doing this job in heavy traffic without getting tickets is mentally taxing and complicated. There is also a law pending in my statehouse which would force Uber to become the primary insurance provider whenever I have the app enabled. This would force them to raise fares to taxi level, and would generally be excellent for me. Here is an in-depth article from the insurance industry that confirms that the insurance ambiguity/gap will be resolved in the states which have accepted rideshare as a fact, and a welcome one. Uber is resisting liability, but the insurance providers are making the company a target for pressure. They are pissed mainly that a bunch of their policies are mispriced, and they are seeking to resolve that with Uber, not with me http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2014/06/27/332942.htm agarjogger fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 06:25
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SiGmA_X posted:What type of diesel gets that bad of city mileage? No car gets very good MPG if you're not moving. That's stop-and-go traffic. I doubt EPA city MPG is calculated with that amount of idling/crawling. My car is rated much higher in the city, but taxi use is not typical use at all. I'm already learning how much I can coast without irritating the passenger, and which lights I can shut off the engine at.
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Jul 27, 2014 08:58
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posh spaz posted:Huh? I thought Uber's whole deal was being cheaper than taxis. There are already Uber-like apps that work with proper taxi companies and car services. If you lose that price advantage I'm not sure it's viable anymore, if it even is currently viable. I can't say without knowing all of the costs and risks involved. The Uber app itself will let you summon a traditional taxi, one which is simply a yellow cab with the Uberphone on board. I don't know what to tell you, people loving love UberX and a random-rear end dude in a random-rear end car. Since in the taxi industry, a random dude in a random car means a significantly cooler dude in a significantly nicer car. I've had more people complaining about being undercharged than anything else (besides my route choice). Of course they will rarely offer a tip, since the Uber corp. beats it into their head not to. gently caress you, Uber. I guess I can say anything I like about them without fear of retribution, since according to them they're not my employer. They're also obsessively creepy and excessively internet-literate, and I'd be surprised if I wasn't deactivated in a year for trying to get the Uber driver's forum to stop willingly lapping up so much bullshit from passengers and the company.
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Jul 27, 2014 09:38
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I don't know though. If there were a clear way to graduate from this UberX poo poo into something safer, better, more stable. I'd do it in a heartbeat. This is the first job I'm genuinely good at, and it makes me feel awesome.
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Jul 27, 2014 09:49
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SiGmA_X posted:Get a CDL? Become a 'wheelman'? Yes, definitely. As soon as I've got the cash, people skills, and city knowledge I want from driving UberX, I'm saving my car and running as fast as I can into a real job with a real company. Though conditions do seem likely to improve for UberX drivers, since IMO they couldn't be much worse.
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Jul 27, 2014 10:06
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Aristotle Animes posted:I was kinda hoping that figure already included that, but, yeah you'll get knocked pretty hard if it wasn't! I assumed a 19% income tax in that. Due to the way surge works, and the way people use cabs, a ten hour shift isn't really the way to do it. You go out to drive when people go out to do stuff. Even if I were to somehow net minimum wage these next few months, it's still well worth it. It's getting me out of bed and on my feet and slowly lifting my horrible depression. Well worth the sucker's bet, at least to me. Obviously if I get T-boned and insurance says LMAO DENIED, I lost the game but still learned a ton about my city and its people.
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Jul 28, 2014 00:04
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Let me get back to you when I manage to find someone on the drivers' forum who can actually produce evidence of their effective tax owed and paid. There are some deductions against depreciation available to people using their cars for work. I still believe that in two or three cities, mine included, driving forty hour weeks and being very savvy about your pickup pattern can lead to an after-everything take-home of near $20/hr. Says here that half of the S/E tax can be deducted from, and there is a $.56 per mile deduction. Which would appear to knock out half the self-employment tax. agarjogger fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Jul 28, 2014 |
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Jul 28, 2014 05:49
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Hah, I'm ready to happily admit that this job is a loving loser. A mortgage on my car, a mortgage on my future. Fine. I need cash and something which gets my rear end out of bed on time and onto the street. The moment I find a job that pays $12, I'm out, my car and lawyer will certainly thank me. Still, things could get better. My state could make Uber the primary insurer with taxi limits ($350,000), and they could cut the bottom 40% of drivers with little impact on service. And I wish it weren't so central to my decision, but UberX is a fun-rear end job. Still, the moment I have the cash to do it, I should look into driving professionally, with a proper license and a proper company. There's a fair bit of up-front investment involved in that, and I am terrified to unseal my credit card. I go back to school in January to finish my half-finished degree. agarjogger fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jul 28, 2014 |
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Jul 28, 2014 05:56
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SiGmA_X posted:Mileage and depreciation yes, unsure about the half of SE tho? Do you have a link? Not really, just some random-rear end on the driver forums. I also just found another guy who says that deduction is not permitted for livery drivers. The period in which I think I'm going to do this has shrunk from 5 months to 2, since UberX drivers apparently pay a fuckton of tax (the ones who stick around long enough to file an annual return, which I cannot seem to find). The $6,000 or so I should net driving UberX, would represent a simple withdrawal from the value of my vehicle, which is still better than selling it. In eight weeks or so, I should be well-prepared to drive a town car, and have the cash to make that happen. Thanks for the reality check. gently caress this loving company and every god damned thing emanating from the SF area. I'll stick around the thread and let you guys know if I am somehow grossing $500 a day by being a top-rated/prioritized driver. Then maybe we can run the numbers again? It's just so sad how, time after time, libertarian shitheads make a basically decent thing and have to corrupt it immediately. agarjogger fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jul 28, 2014 |
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Jul 28, 2014 06:38
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from the Uber drivers' forum:quote:My few fast food requests have been from passengers seating in the back seat, so I pull up to the speaker so THEY can order from the back seat and then pull up to the window so THEY can pay and get their change and food, all from the comfort of the back seat. I haven't had any front-seat fast food rides yet. I can only guess this guy lives in some lovely burb and is being used by the same bunch of drunk teenagers to run to the drive through. This is an example of a deranged driver who is so laid-low by the rating system, that he will comply with almost any passenger request without hesitation.
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Aug 5, 2014 07:45
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Btw I'm quitting UberX and applying at Uber corporate. Tanks for the memories. I understand my life is unlikely to improve, but I will become somewhat less likely to be sued for millions of dollars. Probably only somewhat. agarjogger fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 5, 2014 07:55
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FrozenVent posted:Does Uber cover damage to the car done by passengers? For example that oft cited instance of a passenger stabbing a seat with a pen, would Uber reimburse the driver for that? Uber is actually very good about sending you a few hundred dollars for "messes". You snap a picture and it gets deposited pretty quick. I don't know if that covers damage to upholstery or interior. A passenger scraped the bottom of my door on a curb. No damage done, they might send me some bucks for a bottle of touch-up paint if I asked. If anyone's still considering this, I'd hesitate even more than usual. They (uber and Lyft) just keep slashing fares to breathtaking levels. Uber wants to be price competitive with loving public transport, and it's not sustainable, and they're not going to be able to undo these fare slashes. The regular dudes in the nice cars were a trap, a loss leader. The services are going to be nothing but cabbies soon enough. agarjogger fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 00:40
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I think I may be trolling, sometimes. Like I don't try to, but.. Part-timers replaced with full-timers. Full-timers have poo poo enough margins that they can't give anything away. They have poo poo enough passengers that they can't be nice. So, cabbies. agarjogger fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 08:17
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Anybody still following this shitshow? UberX rates have been cut by 50% across the US board since a year ago. The job went from “vaguely worth the risk [?]” to “you have fallen victim to a pyramid scheme, can we offer you blankets and hot cocoa”. Veteran drivers report that their all-inclusive cost of driving is roughly a dollar a mile. Fares are now.. roughly a dollar a mile. Base is nothing, time is nothing. Uber’s take continues to creep upward from 20%-25% as investors begin to expect an $18B company to make money on a quarterly basis. UberX just launched in Las Vegas. They have a law team on the ground to handle drivers’ $10,000 tickets, of which many have been given out in the first few days of operation. agarjogger fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 00:38
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Cicero posted:It does seem odd that they're driving rates so low. Seems like they could end up with the dregs as drivers, which would push customers elsewhere. I have a couple theories. 1. they want only part-time drivers. Ones who are not doing rigorous accounting, drive only on weekends/surge events, do the job for reasons other than checks, will never protest Uber policies. 2. they want only new drivers, and think they can onboard drivers fast enough to replace the vets who have learned which hours are unprofitable (almost all of them), and now only rarely log in. At current rates, it is probably not possible to make a living doing Uber. By "a living", I mean a reliable poverty wage for a household of one. Few minimum wage jobs come with the massive costs and liability of choosing to operate your personal vehicle as an uber. Since these policies are intentional and carefully thought out, I have to imagine Uber wants to get rid of its veteran laborforce as soon as possible. Replace the 1099's with temps, replace the temps with interns. Replace the interns with robots, eventually. If this is Uber's plan, it will all implode without a doubt, probably in the next year and a half.
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Oct 29, 2014 20:20
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MJBuddy posted:Uber keeps dropping their prices because they have so many drivers set up that they have to in order to have any demand at all. Early adopting drivers seem to be pissed about this. Customers, on the other hand, don't hate it so much. Would you mind rewriting this post in American loving English. Does pressure mean poverty and desperation? Does inefficient mean “doesn’t piss in a baggie and toss it out the window”? agarjogger fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 04:50
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Having a car which can pick up passengers in the city will arrive five years after the car which can safely navigate the city, which will arrive five years after the car which can hold a straight line on the freeway. Uber will not be around to exploit the driverless car. Just making the connection between passenger and driver is a nightmare enough with a human brain.
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Oct 31, 2014 01:56
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SpelledBackwards posted:This weekend was both Halloween and Formula One here in Austin. Downs of mine said on a Facebook thread they paid $200-408 for Uber rides home from downtown Lots of passengers are bitching and getting their rates changed to a number they like better (lower, lower number is better so you can take more uber, or perhaps get more shitfaced). Uber is a human loving right, no matter if 2 million other people all want to go out and get shitfaced on the same night as you and at all the same places. Don’t drive uber, you’ll absolutely come to despise people. By all means, steal back money from the immigrant who clears $11/hour and risks arrest and impound when he takes you to the airport. agarjogger fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Nov 3, 2014 |
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Nov 3, 2014 06:10
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because "it was better than getting a DWI (true) out waiting and fighting for a taxi."