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Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

quakster posted:

Red Dwarf is a straight-up comedy. Not much to review.

Oh, I don't know. It had some neat sci-fi concepts, and dealt with some pretty existential questions, if at least only obliquely - especially in the earlier series. It definitely wasn't brainless laffs.

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Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

This still makes me laugh out loud, every single time.

'Well, I'd prefer chicken'

EDIT - well, now I may well end up watching Red Dwarf clips all morning. Oops

Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Dec 3, 2014

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

AndwhatIseeisme posted:

Couldn't someone behind the scenes have been working on an actual spaceship while this whole thing was going on. You know, let a few scientists be aware of it and have them tasked with the hope of one day making the space whale torture not the only option?

Does that sound like typical human behaviour to you?

What would actually happen is they'd be all 'nah, gently caress it, this is easier, why bother' until the space whale started to get old and sick and weak, then they'd panic and start talking about maybe getting a conference together about building a spaceship, but it'd already be too late and the UK would fall into the nearest sun or something.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

HopperUK posted:

I hated this episode, just hated it. I found the patriotic overtones and the lionizing of Churchill to be so embarrassing they made me cringe. Having said that I liked Spitfires in space. Gravity wells whatever. Wheeee! Pew pew pew!

Surely they were as much a part of that bullshit as everything else. They certainly made me bite my fist in vicarious embarrassment.

Actually, personal embarrassment as well, because I was watching it. Luckily no-one else was in the room at the time.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Bicyclops posted:

I do sort of wish that the sonic screwdriver worked even less of the time and that the running gag was the Doctor finding himself confronted with a problem, saying "I'll just use my trusty sonic screwdriver!" and then either prove that it's largely ineffectual or make the situation even worse by screwing up the settings.

I get the point of it, though. It's so they can bypass a lot of boring computer hacking or instrument building and condense it into a few seconds of iconic sound and movement. And also to sell toys, probably. Either way, the sonic is a pretty minor sin, and it's fun enough that it's easy to forgive. :)

There was a good post many Who threads ago where someone argued that the Doctor suspects he's in a fictional narrative, and has (as of the revival series) figured out that if he just points the sonic screwdriver at whatever problem he's currently up against, the writer, in the interests of brevity and/or laziness, will write him out of the situation.

It's just a whizzy light up stick, but he's figured out if he just swishes it around for long enough then a solution will magically present itself.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

DoctorWhat posted:

also is no one going to acknowledge "the rassilon razzle-dazzle-on"? I worked hard on that one.

Well done, Doctor What.

Also, Vampires of Venice is flipping great and badly underrated, Rory is awesome, and Matt Smith's confrontation scene is A+.

'Think of the children...'

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Senor Tron posted:

This is probably not the place to bring up all the Colin jokes that Davison was making at the Symphonic the other night hey?

Do tell...

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Coming at you for not including the enormous-in-scope space opera Legend of Galactic Heroes

This is the only actually, all the way through and not just sometimes good anime there is. I have spoken.

EDIT - VVVV It is only Sometimes Good.

Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Feb 6, 2015

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Lipset and Rock On posted:

How has this been posted but not the video of actual Sylvester McCoy doing the same? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9_OkgWaRIs

Listen to him roll those rs.

Here's the version edited to fit the scene. I do enjoy Sly's delivery, and it's a very Seventh Doctor-y speech, little dude could be quite the blusterer from time to time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG9Z5djon7w

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)
Thomas Hardy and George Eliot are both f'in ace.

And Twain and Melville, if we're talking the other side of the pond as well.

Can take or leave most 19th century literature though.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Jerusalem posted:

This story and the discussion it generated at the time it aired remains one of my favorite memories of season 6, I love stories where - regardless of how fantastic the scenario is - you can put yourself into the characters' shoes and ponder how you would react in the same situation. It makes for a great thought experiment, and coupled with the amazing visuals it remains a highlight of the season for me.

Yeah, the main Who thread was great after this, a lot of engaging and intelligent discussion. Admittedly, mostly provoked by the one psycho who vowed that he would kill his other self on sight.

The two-parter's main conceit is a hoary old sci-fi/speculative fiction/SF/whatever one, it's true, but I wish Who would go to that well more often.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)
It begins (again)!

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Sentinel Red posted:

Sorry, couldn't resist, goop discussion must always have a Sociopath King!

That was the basic gist of it though, right?

Fungah! posted:

wasn't his thing that he had a copyright on himself and so he was morally justified straight-up killing his ganger? it's been a while, i don't remember exactly

Little bit of column A, little bit of column B (as far as I recall - I don't have archives). But all the obvious rejoinders to that attitude fell on deaf ears - he genuinely seemed confused about people being a bit iffy about flat out murdering gangers.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)
'A bunch of programmable matter' is literally every human being to ever exist.

To be fair, though, I'm glad there's only one MisterBibs.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)
At the heart of the whole debate is the fact that continuity of consciousness is a total crock of poo poo. If someone brought back me from yesterday somehow, I'd have no claim on him whatsoever. He'd be a different person, even if very subtly, and as deserving of independent existence as 'I' am.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

A jargogle posted:

And he'd have an equally valid claim on those things. It'd be awkward for sure to sort out, but I think a reasonable person could manage to.

And since I know today me feels the same way as yesterday me about the whole situation, I'd like to think we would be able to work something out.

This is also, incidentally, why MisterBibs would presumably thunderdome the gently caress out of himself.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Jerusalem posted:

As far as I see it, the very moment the double is created, it's experiencing things from a different perspective to me and thus automatically becomes an entirely different person. Sure we have 100% identical memories up to that point, and the difference in perspective may literally be that we're standing on different sides of the room... but it is still a different perspective to the one I am experiencing, and thus unique to that entity. How we would deal with the ramifications of life going forward I don't know (both of us would probably want to leave the other to do all the work so "we" could travel the world :haw:) but there would be no doubt in my mind that we were NOT the same person anymore.

I guess the question is 'at what point does the perspective change, no matter how tiny, change what it is to be you'? IMO, I agree with you that the tiniest change would make a difference, but as long as the experience of continuity of consciousness exists (which it would for both branches) then neither gets a claim to originality.

I know you're not arguing against me, J-Ru. I guess I'm just explicating the conundrum.

This all kind of leads on to one of my favourite themes in Doctor Who, which is regeneration. If every single cell changes in the Doctor's body, making his literal, day-to-day consciousness entirely different, while retaining memories of his former selves, is he still the same person? Or does he just retain memories of another person's experiences, as we do when we read particularly good novels? Or, most interestingly, does it even really matter?

Yeah, I really dig this two-parter.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Prison Warden posted:

You take a broom, you replace the handle, and then later you replace the brush, and you do that over and over again. Is it still the same broom? Answer? No, of course it isn't. But you can still sweep the floor.

Right on. As another fantastic writer wrote, 'you are what you pretend to be, so you must be very careful about what you pretend to be'. There is nothing at the centre of anyone - it's what you do that defines you.

Which is why a ganger is as valid as a person.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)
The true mind-gently caress is that there is probably no such thing as a 'self', in the ontological sense - which then leads to the realisation that every tiny momentary pattern of complexity equaling sentience is as worthy of respect as any other, whether it was immediately preceded by cellular division or ganger-goopery.

And that is what Doctor Who is all about.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

marktheando posted:

I think that if you don't want to have to to deal with your characters going through the loss and grief of losing their baby, then you probably shouldn't write a story where your characters have their baby taken away. What Moffat did really sells out the characters at the expense of the plot, and the plot isn't interesting enough to justify it.

Precisely.

The Melody=River plotline is the worst part of Moffat's clever-clever bullshittery (to date), and it's also where the old 'RTD sacrifices plot for emotional beats and Moffat sacrifices emotional beats for plot' cliche rings most true. It's just cheap and cynical and poorly done.

It also contracts the Doctor Who universe even more than usual. There could've been so many other, more interesting origins for River.

EDIT - also, 'time head baby' is irritatingly hand-wavy. I'm far from a stickler for Doctor Who consistency or whatever, but 'conceived in TARDIS, therefore part Time Lord' is really weak.

Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Apr 16, 2015

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)
Yes, which is why his (and my) argument is that Moffat shouldn't have used a storyline in which the main characters lose their baby in the first place.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)
EDIT - I just realised which thread this is in, my apologies.

VVVVVV Might be worth editing out. It's not a big thing, but still

Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 15:28 on May 2, 2015

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Grouchio posted:

Victorian bullshit like this makes me wonder if we'll be lucky enough to try an American doctor within the next decade or so...

No thanks.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Bobulus posted:

Is it poetic irony or just stupid that Seven, the Doctor that talks and schemes his way out of everything, dies as a result of random gunfire?

I thought it was fitting, but then again I also thought that Kirk dying by bridge was also good.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Little_wh0re posted:

How do you have one favorite smith moment?

Getting mad about humans in beast below, getting mad at river in forest of the dead, scared in the pandorica, bemused at rorys reappearance, spotting the fez in the 50th.

Also the park bench scene in The Beast Below, his confrontation in the throne room in the vampires episode, pretty much anything he did in The Lodger, etc, etc.

I miss Matt Smith terribly.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Toxxupation posted:

wait

are you saying doctor who is directly responsible for the best animated tv show I've ever seen

https://youtu.be/4OAFtr-ciQE?t=317

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but yes, Rick and Morty was directly inspired by Doctor Who. As in, they even modelled the theme tune on Doctor Who's.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Not a Twat posted:

I liked the bizarre slapstick in this episode

Strax just utterly smashing Clara with the newspaper came completely out of nowhere, and made me burst out laughing.

Strax is always good value, is what I'm saying

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

I've always considered this Ten's theme, in that it tended to get used more often in his earlier seasons, and also reprises when he turns up in Day of the Doctor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=844_IkhcP-g

The one you posted is just Nine's but all bombastic and not as good :colbert: I like when it turns up occasionally, though. It's my favourite Doctor theme.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Bown posted:

I meant was the Dalek named that as a reference to RTD? I've heard him referred to as Rusty for years now.

I don't think I've ever seen Russell T. Davies referred to as Rusty outside of these threads.

Russell "The T." Davies, however...

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Payndz posted:

As a professional writer, the whole "death of the author" thing mystifies me. Like anyone else, an author is shaped by their upbringing, their environment, the society around them - and without them the work being discussed wouldn't even exist, so knowing something about the person who created it (and why they created it) would surely help in analysing it. But "none of that counts, only my interpretation matters" seems to be the way lit-crit works at the moment. :iiam:

(And yes, I know that TV is a collaborative process with the script filtered through actors, directors, cameramen, costumers, other writers and so on. But for solo works - novels, poetry, paintings, sculpture, etc - "what was the creator trying to say - and what are they saying without necessarily realising it?" should surely be a key question.)

Death of the Author was never about utterly ignoring context forever and for good, it was an attempt to redress a balance that had been leaning too far towards the direction of trying to find clues to an author's life in their work.

It's not an either/or question, and it hasn't been in literary criticism for years now. Both methods - approaching a work as a standalone text and finding out what you see in it, and approaching a text taking it as an expression of contextual influences - are perfectly legitimate.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Espilae posted:

I think this episode is the introduction and first appearance of the terrible loving sparkly shirt and so it should be judged on those merits alone

It's actually a jumper full of holes, but you're right, it's appalling

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

thrawn527 posted:

Yes, this, thank you. This is why I hate this episode. Fine if you want to gently caress off and let the people of this time make their own decision (never mind Clara is just going to ignore it anyway), but take the child you brought here with you and take her home, where she'll be safe. What the gently caress is wrong with you, Doctor.

What's wrong with the 12th Doctor is that he's a cruel, self-centred arsehole who only gives a gently caress about anything or anyone because he's more or less forced to. He doesn't relate to other people, isn't interested in trying, and seems to do the whole adventuring/saving people gig because he feels some sort of irritating (but fading) obligation to do so rather than because he wants to.

Also, he wears horrible polka dot shirts, which is frankly even worse.


Soothing Vapors posted:

yeah these are all serious scientific problems in a show about a time traveling space faring police box

It's a question of verisimilitude. The aspect you mentioned is a central part of the whole series. You accept it as part of the overall premise. The conceit is pseudo-scientifically plausible, in the most loose sense. The moon being an egg that lays an egg even bigger than itself is egregious because it doesn't correlate with people's, basic everyday, perceptual experience. It's exactly like the example of Sundays only being 12 hours long thing mentioned earlier. It's unexplained, it clashes with the way we know things usually work, and aside from all that, it's a cheap cop out and reset button.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Rat Flavoured Rats posted:

KTM is an absolutely fantastic episode, and I genuinely can't get my head around the 'scientifically implausible' criticisms. That is the physics-related straw that break's the back of a show about time travel?

Yes, because it's not about the minutiae of how black holes work or whether time travel is plausible or various other esoteric science fiction-y, physics-y stuff.

It's 'loving eggs, how do they work?'

DoctorWhat posted:

And in what goddamn universe is NOT stuffing a script with arbitrary technobabble "laziness"?

To be honest, I'd rather they just did another episode entirely, the whole thing was ill-conceived and badly constructed. The dilemma and the Doctor/Clara stand off could have been based around something interesting, instead of the moon being a giant loving egg that doesn't make even superficial sense.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)
It's worth mentioning that abortion isn't nearly as big an issue in the UK as it is in America. At all.

Frankly it's very unlikely that any kind of abortion subtext was intentional. Not that that means you can't read it as such, of course.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Regy Rusty posted:

So is this what the main doctor who thread is like all the time

gently caress no, thank god.

DoctorWhat, you're coming across as a condescending bellend. Stop it.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Burkion posted:

What I did I did without choice, in the name of peace and sanity.

But not in the name of the Toxxtor.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Grouchio posted:

I am suddenly reminded that the Doctor loafed around this train job for almost 1000 years.

To be fair, he was stuck on a lovely backwater planet for 900 of them.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Paul.Power posted:

Or I could have asked my friends in Bristol if they really did have weird time warp trains running around the place.

We do not.

Jamie Mathieson single-handedly rescued this series for me. Flatline is exactly what I want Doctor Who to be like all the time - Actual Sci-Fi Concepts, Written Well.

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Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Lottery of Babylon posted:

Actually, In the Forest of the Night is really good. The science side of the psych meds or defoliatiants or instant forest may not make sense, but it's not supposed to be realistic. Do you get angry at this show because time travel isn't real? Do you get angry at Bambi because deer can't talk? None of that is important.

This is a difficult episode for some viewers because it's not as dumbed-down as an average Doctor Who episode. There's not a lot of running and shouting through bland metal corridors, and there's no cheap sci-fi shooting lasers and shouting a catchphrase, so of course you animals won't enjoy it. This is a quiet, contemplative episode about adult fears. The horror that comes over the adults as they realize a child are missing - what parent cannot identify with this? It is about the loss of loved ones, about dealing with mental illness, about a primal fear of the unknown that lurks not in the depths of space but in the world beyond the fences of our yards.

The previous two episodes, which the less cultured among you may describe as the best of the series, were ostensibly about Clara and her relationship with the Doctor and Danny - but they cannot truly explore her relationship with Danny because he is almost completely absent. Here, their relationship is front and center. We see her toxic relationship with the Doctor exposed for what it is as Danny cottons on to the truth of their continued travels. As in the previous episode, Clara is the Doctor, focused on unraveling the truth of the forest. But here Danny is her companion, taking a more grounded view, focused on saving the children under his protection rather than on wacky sci-fi hijinx.

And his approach is borne out in the end. Those children could have been eaten by an escaped tiger without his care, but the world would be fine without the Doctor and Clara's interference. That's not an anticlimax, and it doesn't make the story a waste of time, that's the whole point of the episode - it's the ultimate condemnation of Clara's codependent relationship with the Doctor. The desire to reach out and interfere with matters beyond our comprehension almost dooms the planet, and it is only through the grounding decision to abandon the TARDIS and remain with the children that Clara can finally attain a moment of peace. This is her triumph, the realization that Danny is right not because the Doctor insulted her hair again but because her dalliance with him is dragging her away from the normal life where she is really needed.

A brilliant character study, In the Forest of the Night is almost as perfect an episode as Kill the Moon.

Look, as a mature critic and watsonian reader, I

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