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Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Bicyclops posted:

If Rory hadn't been sucked into the cracks, he would probably be a baseball fan, even though he is not from a baseball country, because he is such a human companion and would love the most human of corporate televised athletic events.

Rory struck me as a guy who would be at tons of sport games, while knowing nothing about the sport, just because he's supporting his friends who're playing.

Maybe he's a volunteer for the logistical side of local games or something.

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Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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MikeJF posted:

It's not exactly an integral connection. It works just as well if you haven't seen Rose.

In fact, it works better if you haven't seen Rose.

In fact, life works better if you haven't seen Rose.

Don't see Rose.

I still haven't seen Rose, because literally every single time I find out a network around here is airing the Eccleston season, it's during or after Rose.

And I'm sure as gently caress never going to actually watch Rose willingly, from the snippets I've seen.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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MikeJF posted:

Was it my imagination, or did this episode have a distinct Close Encounters of the Third Kind homage when all the spaceships are whizzing around over Stonehenge. There's a shot with a spinning-lights spaceship that's framed exactly like one of the iconic shots from close encounters.

Also Rory is one sexy-rear end Roman in that centurion getup.

It's very likely, but I think the spinning-lights ship you're talking about is a Dalek ship, they've got the very stereotypical flying saucer with lights.

I'd love to see a listing of all the ships seen in this episode if it exists; Doctor Who seems like a show that would've pulled up a number of old ships for the shots of the alien fleet, and Doctor Who fans seem like the sort to be able to identify them. I remember there's a similar scene in a much later episode (I'm not certain on the rules to this sort of thing here, so I won't name which, but people probably know what I'm talking about) where my dad and I actually paused the show for several minutes just to try to identify any ships we could.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Pointless little production detail that was probably missed: The Cybermen in The Pandorica Opens have the Cybus design and branding, despite being the classic-series Mondasian Cybermen (as evidenced by the fact they have spaceships). They actually wanted a new iteration of the design for the Mondasian Cybermen, which they eventually got, but they didn't have time to even finish preliminary designs by this point, let alone make one.

So yeah. Technically speaking, this is the first appearance of the 'Real' Cybermen in the new series.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Oxxidation posted:

and an actually somewhat tense battle with a wrecked Cyberman - which is yet another mark for Moffat, being the first time in the whole Revival that a Cyberman was even remotely intimidating.

I've spoken a few times in the main thread about the Cybermen really struggling to find good stories in the revival. A big part of that is the actual scripts struggling to do well with them, and I do have a couple theories on why exactly they fail to hit the mark for most people. But an understated part of it is that nobody seems quite sure how Cybermen should behave. Fast or slow, smart or dumb, expendable or careful, nobody's really managed to nail down something that's worked.

Except that someone did, and this is it right here. That loving head is exactly what works best for the Cybermen: persistence beyond any and all possibility. The Cybermen want to survive, and by god are they going to. Even if the original biological body is long dead, even after losing most of its upgraded body, even after spending who-knows-how-long stranded alone on the ground, this Cyberman is still going. Because he must survive.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Proof that reviews can be art. 10/10.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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DoctorWhat posted:

in which universe did the nazis win WW2? Because there's always one.

Trick question, we're the alternate universe fiction where the Nazis LOST WW2.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Doctor Spaceman posted:

I've read more than a few complaints about Torchwood Jack being not nearly as enjoyable to watch as Doctor Who Jack.

It's true, Jack's the sort of character that's great to have as a supporting character within the confines of someone else's story, but one about them just isn't going to be as good. The same goes with Jack Sparrow, Deadpool, arguably Wolverine and the Hulk (at least in the movies); all great ancillary characters, but they can't carry a story by themselves. The resulting story will either make that character far less interesting to watch by giving them the duties and arc required of a protagonist (or prove they aren't that interesting in the first place), or make the story itself unappealing by trying to build it around this B-side character.

Although strangely, I think if you tried to codify the sort of characters that get treated like this, the Doctor would fit a lot of the criteria. With him it's different, because he's always been intended as the central character, but he's definitely the same sort of figure as characters like Jack Sparrow. Perhaps it's because, despite the name of the show and the central character, very rarely is a story actually about him. He's usually intruding on other people's stories, stepping in to solve somebody else's problem, with either story-specific characters or the companion taking the role of the 'emotional lead'.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Bicyclops posted:

In that most of us have abandoned hope in the face of American politics and enjoy it largely for the political theater, Teddy Roosevelt is one of the greatest Presidents in that he is basically a character from a pulp adventure novel.

He's one of the few national leaders that people seem to genuinely enjoy talking about. Not from a raw historical benefit point of view, there's certainly been more important world leaders, but as a character he does have a certain charisma that can get him genuine fans completely disconnected from his actual political legacy.

I don't know if there's really been one since, especially not to that level. JFK to a lesser extent, Reagan to a certain crowd, Bob Hawke if you ask Australians... The only people that really come close are the propaganda-heavy Putin and Kim Jong-il, and most of their images are/were built on lies and spread by people who aren't affected by them.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Jerusalem posted:

What about Ol' Bubba Clinton? :shobon:

Oh, Clinton's certainly there with JFK, but neither of them are on Teddy Roosevelt level.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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GonSmithe posted:

People say this episode is bad. Those people are so beyond wrong it's not even funny.

It's one of those episodes that would have been absolutely awful in the wrong hands, but is fantastic in the right ones.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Bobulus posted:

...this just makes me wonder what the role of a 'normal' TARDIS is. Most Timelords seemed to want to just stay home. With the exception of a few notables, we didn't see much exploration or even vacationing among Galifreyians.

Time Lords more seem to be into observing than acting. Watching things play out, rather than directly interfering. So we're talking similar to the Watchers from Marvel; they have the power to interfere, but it's forbidden to do so.

There's also the fact (I forget when it's outright stated) that the Time Lords are a ruling caste among Gallifreyans. The people that get a TARDIS, and possibly regenerations, have to pass a rigorous schooling process that probably weeds out most of the Doctor-esque rebels.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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DoctorWhat posted:

Don't get your hopes up. There's been a surge of pro-Masterplan sentiment among, of all people, the younger/Tumblr-ier Who fandom over the past couple of years.

It's a sort of plot point that's become pretty common in media in the years since the Masterplan was initially thought up, so it probably quite appeals to the generation that grew up with those. In particular I wouldn't be surprised to hear that a lot of these people would be Homestuck fans, it always sounded similar to the ectobiology origins to me.

While I've got nothing against 'chosen one' or reincarnation character origins, I'd agree that one definitely doesn't work for the Doctor, and especially not that one. Even Homestuck's, again, would work better; there's honestly no part of it that makes the kids from Homestuck 'special' or 'better', they're still regular people.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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I can barely stand the amount of me that's already in the world, how do you expect me to tolerate a clone?

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Well Manicured Man posted:

It'll be just like the Pokemon games, you'll have two movies which are pretty much exactly the same, except one has the all-male Ghostbusters team and the other has the all-female team.

Will we get a third version that renders the first two obsolete due to reasons of objective quality?

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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MikeJF posted:

It's a two partner with a lead-in to the next episode, really.

Like an inversion of the situation with Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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The most distinct thing I remember from this entire episode is the dolls turning Amy. Which I don't think anyone's actually mentioned, but I thought it was a really good way to raise the stakes and the horror. We know her, and we like her, so seeing her fall victim to them really works.

Obvious comparisons for the episode are The Empty Child and Fear Her, and while I think this episode falls between the two in quality it's something that it can hold over both of them. Sure, we lose a named character in The Empty Child, but it's in the same scene in which we meet him, and we don't really know enough about him to feel anything about his loss. The Doctor does fall victim to Chloe's powers in Fear Her, but he's still managing to influence and assist in solving the problem, he's not really gone. Amy IS, once they turn her she ceases to be anything beyond another one of them, and it happens well before any solution to the problem is found.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Mordiceius posted:

The previous series seemed like a condemnation of the Doctor's pride. This series seemed like a condemnation of the Doctor as the perfect hero superman figure.

I find it interesting that perhaps the most optimistic Doctor (certainly in the revival, at least) has so much of his story be basically dismantling his 'superhero' image, making a point of 'he's not all that'.

Cleretic fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Apr 24, 2015

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Bown posted:

I had no idea "the episode where a minotaur runs around a hotel" had so many fervent defenders.

The only thing I took from the episode at all was that the minotaur still seems like a really weird selection for the monster's design. It fits to be something pretty old, that wouldn't necessarily carry any traits of typical Doctor Who fare, but I feel like the minotaur's too beastly to carry the monster role for this, the setup's too intricate. I get the connection to the whole labyrinth setup, but that's really only a superficial way in which it works. I just can't buy a minotaur being the weird faith-hijacking monster.

Back when it aired, I remember thinking that it's a role that would've been well served by a properly biblical angel design, something both terrifying and awe-inspiring. That clearly would've been well out of the abilities of the show (both monetarily and 'they wouldn't have been able to get away with it'), but I still think something more along those lines would have served the role better than the minotaur.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Bicyclops posted:

He's making up the 200 years he's been gone just like he makes up his age. He was probably gone for a couple of months, or for a thousand years, and just forgot to bring a watch.

Two days, on a very quick planet.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Capfalcon posted:

Huh. I always forget that Tennant was in Harry Potter. Had to go look it up.

It's a minor enough role that you can be forgiven for forgetting it was him, since he spends most of the movie shapeshifted into somebody else anyway. Tennant himself gets what, two scenes?

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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I liked Wedding of River Song, although I'm not sure I'd have given it an A.

Toxxupation posted:

Bravely Default (a largely bad game)

Well gently caress you too, buddy, Bravely Default is great as long as you ignore at least one of the time-warp chapters.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Kurtofan posted:

Those chapters are not half the game though. The Optional boss battles in the latter chapters are very good.

Yeah, this is why I say you'd do well to cut out only one or two of the time-warp chapters. The first one serves no purpose that the others don't, while the others change things up enough that it's not just a retread. It also allows them to be really clever with the 'you can finish the game now, but there's more to do' bonus bosses that were staples of the classic Final Fantasies that Bravely Default was a callback to.

Much like Wedding of River Song, Bravely Default takes a really neat idea and simultaneously stretches it out way too far while not really doing enough with it. It spends a lot of time milling around, yet can only really manage anticlimaxes when it tries to do a lot of things. I'm not sure if that metaphor actually works as well as it does in my head, but I'm going with it.

EDIT: I wasn't sure about it at the time, but looking back on it another thing I really liked about Bravely Default's playing with its own conceits and lineage is that the 'True Ending' requires your party being pretty loving stupid. So often the True Ending is the Best Ending, so I like that they change convention by making the True Ending 'your party went right along with the horrible trap and only pulled it out at the end because other people bailed them out'.

Cleretic fucked around with this message at 09:20 on May 9, 2015

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Bown posted:

The title of the show was never intended as a joke so I don't really know what that whole diatribe is all about

Well, the question 'Doctor Who?' did turn up in like, the third episode or something, didn't it?

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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I don't recall Dinosaurs on a Spaceship ruling, but I'm pretty sure I remember it being at least in a position of nominal authority.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Mooseontheloose posted:

I remember thinking Aslyum didn't make much use of its premise but was otherwise fine.

Someone in the main thread once said that Asylum would have been better as a Cyberman episode, and despite generally liking the episode I have to agree.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Burkion posted:

It's also bad because he could literally just travel back to that time period but to, like, New Jersey, take a short trip, say hi, and then go back.

Or just go to them the YEAR AFTER all of the time web bullshit and go yo!

The only reason he doesn't is because the Doctor's a lazy rear end in a top hat, it seems. See, functioning Dalek Empire.

I still think it's pretty in-character for the Doctor to have missed an answer to his problems because they involve no (or less) time travel. Guy's time traveled for a millennia, he probably has a bit of trouble conceptualizing the prospect of going somewhere in a way that isn't 'point the TARDIS at it, park outside it somewhere in the vicinity of the same month'.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Craptacular! posted:

The new TARDIS set, though. What it loses in looking like a place the Doctor has lived in for a very long time, it gains in kinetic energy.

Edit: This version of the title credits suck, though.

What they do with it turns me around on the new TARDIS, and I do really like it, but I still think it's a shame that they abandoned the whole of the first Eleven's TARDIS set.

The main reason they did to my understanding was that it became really hard to shoot with the glass floor, but I feel like surely they could have fixed that.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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The Angel of Liberty is great, gently caress anyone who says otherwise.

I have shockingly few feelings on the Snowmen. It feels like an episode I'd have a lot of thoughts and opinions about, but I just... don't. It exists, I saw it, I remember liking it, but beyond that it's just nothing.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Craptacular! posted:

I can't believe the cyber illuminati Bond Chilson organization was undone by social media over-sharing.

I can. Moffat might have issues with technology, but this is a completely accurate way for that to happen. As I recall, MI6 had to appoint a new super-secret head (the equivalent of M from the Bond films, only they use a different letter) because the wife of the guy they were giving the job to openly congratulated her husband on it on Facebook.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Gaz-L posted:

C.

It's C. The person might be secret, the letter is not.

Ah, right. I should've been clear, I knew the letter wasn't secret, I just didn't know it.

Of course, the more important question: is there actually a Q?

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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I don't have much in the way of opinions on Akhaten, either. In fact, most of this half of the season falls into that basket; I kind of remember liking them, but outside of maybe two episodes it all just blends vanishingly into the background.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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I've never seen Black Mirror, but everything I've heard made it sound like every episode is basically a Doctor Who story where the Doctor doesn't turn up. So while I'm sure Brooker could write a good episode of Doctor Who, I'm not sure we'd necessarily gain anything from that. It would just be Black Mirror with the edge filed off.

Cleretic fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Jun 1, 2015

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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I liked most of Hide, but I remember being really annoyed at the unexplained presence and existence of an empath.

Doctor Who can and does pull some crazy stuff, but it almost always at least tries to explain it. That explanation doesn't always work, but it helps that they at least try to make it buyable. They don't even try to explain the empath's existence, the Doctor's just going 'oh, yeah, those exist' and continuing on his way. As I recall the reason she's having such success in this specific case is because she's an ancestor of the ghost-woman, but she's clearly not a fraud outside of it.

It just really bugs me, and kind of ruins the episode for me in my memory. It makes it worse that it's in an episode that takes a pretty good swing at trying to explain a more modern, low-key style of haunting (Who usually goes for a bit of a more classic ghost depiction than 'creepy figure in the background of photos). A genuine attempt at a sci-fi explanation of ghosts is kind of let down by the fact it's in a story that just goes 'also this lady has psychic powers'.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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What grade would you give it? It looks like the general opinion is 'whaaaaaa' but I'm not exactly looking at actual discussions on it.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Toxxupation posted:

also next review is incredibly special, see if you can find out why!

You spend every sentence trying to fit in something better than Thomas Thomas?

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Big Mean Jerk posted:

Ahahahaha seriously? I'm reinforcing the original poster's argument that the Moffat era has been poo poo at giving us fleshed-out characters who aren't white.

It's really hard to refute you at this point in things, honestly. Moffat's had a good number of black minor characters at this point, although major supporting characters the likes of Mickey and Martha haven't happened. At the same time, though, I'm pretty sure there were little to no black characters in RTD's run that weren't related to Martha or Mickey.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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I feel like season 7 is when we finally see Gatiss coming into his own and having proper quality and style. Between Cold War and the Crimson Horror (and adding his contribution to the 50th anniversary itself) we actually see a lot of good shine through from him, and while I've always been pretty happy with Gatiss scripts in general (they're rarely overall standouts, but they're sturdy enough that you can like or dislike them on their terms, and I'm a fan of his slight body horror bent) this is the season where I could see him as a showrunner. Maybe not on the producing side of things, but certainly the script side.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Bicyclops posted:

We've had three Scottish Doctors now, although one of them didn't get to use his native accent. Maybe we'll get an Irish one next time.

I don't think Tennant counts as 'using his native accent', given he only got to crack it out in one episode (EDIT: Never mind, just realized McCoy apparently did use his Scottish accent, I've never actually watched him).

When Matt Smith announced he was retiring, Adam Hills put out the suggestion that he be considered for the Twelfth Doctor role, because he thought an Australian Doctor would be great. He said it as a joke, but I think that's genuinely a pretty good idea, and I'm not saying that out of national pride (of which I have none). I feel like an Australian Doctor would match Nine's working-class nature with Eleven's manic enthusiasm, which I think would make for a pretty fun take on things.

I suppose an Irish Doctor would be inherently capable of much the same, but it seems so much more fitting for an Australian to be turning up out of nowhere and going 'alright, what's going on here? Sure, I'll have a crack at fixing it'.

Cleretic fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Jun 12, 2015

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Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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In the same token of 'Asylum of the Daleks should have been a Cyberman episode', Nightmare in Silver really should have been a Dalek episode.

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