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GrimGypsy posted:Well you see, it's something WWE did and we all have stockholm syndrome so I think you'll find it's actually a really smart, awesome thing just like everything else is/has been for years now. Just wait and see. What the gently caress is this post, seriously Raw was pretty good and did an awesome rear end job of building further to Summerslam. I hope Brie knees Steph in the face for the three.
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Jul 29, 2014 09:07
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:The ads they're running for Lesnar/Cena are really great. No joke they might be the best wrestling ads I've ever seen.
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Jul 29, 2014 09:40
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LividLiquid posted:I love you not in spite of the fact that you're mister positivity, but because of it. Let's start there. To be entirely clear this is often a fine sentiment but someone flying off the handle about Bo loving Dallas losing and actually showing positive character development baffles me. Many weeks, MOST weeks even, there is a thing or multiple things that're worth going "WAIT AND SEE AMIRITE WWE BOOKING IS DUMB" but I don't see where any of those existed this week, which yes, is a rarity! That's part of why I liked it so much! If it was a joke post and I can't read tone for poo poo, that's one thing. I mostly commented on it because the last five GrimGypsy posts I could remember might as well have been copy/pastes of that last post. I wasn't flying off the handle saying "how dare someone besmirch that Raw!", I was genuinely asking what the gently caress because not only does Bo losing not mean poo poo, they actually did something good with it.
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Jul 29, 2014 15:40
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I like both of the shirts. I mean I'm not blown away by them but as WWE shirts go I think they're solid at worst.
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Jul 29, 2014 16:20
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Tato posted:It's just all so confusing. I love Cesaro, please let me love him WWE. Send him out in a shirt each week that explicitly states his face/heel alignment, because I can't make any sense of this guy since Wrestlemania. "This week I am no longer affiliated with Paul Heyman, but am [continued on back] still a heel and consider him a close personal friend," followed by next week's "I call myself the king of swing yet never use this maneuver because I am in fact, still technically a heel and you should boo me even though I don't do anything particularly evil and have no storyline." I'm sorry but it's obvious Cesaro's a heel. He's always been except for maybe about 20 minutes or so at Wrestlemania. He's still a heel despite no longer being a Heyman guy because he was a smug prick and offered to help the Authority. He's still Paul's friend because they are heels and heels are friends. The "King Of Swing" thing is kind of dumb but that was always Heyman that called him that. Also he CAN do the swing, he just generally chooses not to because he's a dick. Heeling! It's lame, aimless heeling, but it's heeling. I won't dispute for a second that he has no clear storyline or direction, but how is his alignment at all confusing?
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Jul 29, 2014 18:18
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DrVenkman posted:Scott Steiner is the surprising voice of reason: He's hardly saying anything insightfuul that hasn't been regurgitated a million times for the last 5-10 years. He's mostly right, but this isn't some amazing revelation no one else has thought to bring up. However I agree with all of your assessment of what he said, right down to agreeing that I think the Attitude Era as a whole gets romanticized to a really goddamn irritating degree. I WATCHED the Attitude Era. Live. It's partly what got me hooked on wrestling. But I think in every way but the most important ones (mostly writing, actually) it's largely better now. If you take the entirety of modern WWE and just shift it to more Attitude Era rules on scripting promos and I bet it'd be a billion times better.
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Jul 29, 2014 20:04
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Great White Hope posted:He's also right because if two shows are going against each other, when something bad is happening on one show you can flip to the other, so you get to see the best hours possible instead of going 'ugh just finish this segment already'. Worked great for TNA in 2010!  You can't just look at it that way, that's putting the cart before the horse. There DOES need to be competition, but it's not Vince's fault that the only thing close for the last 10-ish years was run by people who had everything they needed to theoretically create that but they were too stupid to.I guess what I'm saying is I feel like there are undertones of it being Vince's fault that it's basically a monopoly when really if you had to create a Mount Rushmore of Business Killers it should be Russo, Bischoff, Hogan, and Dixie Carter, not Vince. DrVenkman posted:Oh no of course, I'm not saying he has anything new to say. It's just funny to see The Big Bad Booty Daddy do it while he momentarily slips out of character. I'm going through the attitude era again and while there's some unabashed abandon to it (Like a coked up Shane O'Mac on the Wrestlemania Rage Party) it's also sadly some real ugly stuff there. The 'Women as gently caress objects' thing was at its height (Conversely while having a decent women's division) and they were pulling bullshit like giving birth to a hand. Agreed on all counts and I think, like I said, the thing that's the problem now with not affording that freedom is too much scripting. The Pipe Bomb, ARGUABLY one of the best single moments in the modern era, came from them telling Punk to just go off script. SamuraiFoochs fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jul 29, 2014 |
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Jul 29, 2014 20:12
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xNarUtoRKOrton420x posted:I'd take Reign's one move of doom that looks cool over Cena's five meh moves (I hate his shoulder tackles). Endless Mike posted:Um, the hair flip counts as five. I am so down. I still think Roman owns, possibly least out of all three former Shield guys all considered but my point has always been calling him the most underwhelming ex-Shield guy is not a knock because they're three amazing talents, and at least for now I'd love to see each and every one of them is a top guy. Roman is most what WWE typically looks for; he really is like, a Samoan lovechild of Nash and Goldberg and he's got undeniable flaws but is still super entertaining to watch more often than not IMHO, and I'm not gonna hate Roman just because he's not Ambrose. As far as WWE Ubermensch types, you could do a lot worse than Roman. You could do better (Cesaro springs to mind) but I still really like what Reigns brings to the table and have no issues with him getting the rocket push.
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Jul 29, 2014 20:39
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TheEggsBenedict posted:The problem with Reigns is that there are several new wrestlers that deserve this mega push far more than Reigns does. Ambrose and Cesaro I'll grant, but who else unless you're counting like KENTA? Also in terms of talent I'll grant you Cesaro, but he doesn't get reactions, Reigns does. Yes that's WWE's fault, but they're pushing a guy in Reigns who is mad over and certainly brings stuff to the table. If all other things were equal and Reigns wasn't getting the push but rather say, oh, a face Orton was, I guarantee you people would be calling WWE dumb for not pushing Reigns. You can call WWE dumb for not pushing Dean or Cesaro rather than Roman maybe, but that doesn't mean they're inherently dumb for pushing Roman.
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Jul 29, 2014 20:52
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sportsgenius86 posted:I assume he's referring to NXT guys as well Well it's sort of dumb to criticize WWE for not pushing NXT guys over an established guy no matter how talented they are. I wanna see Sami Zayn become the next Daniel Bryan without injuries as much as the next guy, but really now. This is coming from someone who's voiced frustration about Sami's booking in NXT and said that he should either be NXT Champ or called up already.
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Jul 29, 2014 21:03
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TheEggsBenedict posted:Was mainly referring to Rollins, Ambrose, and Cesaro. I love Rollins but there's no way WWE would be smarter if they were giving the push to him that Reigns is getting. Ambrose I will concede because he's incredible AND getting reactions on the level that Roman is but the other issue there is the fact that I think Ambrose and Rollins need each other so much right now that it's dumb to theoretically push them instead. I think WWE has handled the Shield breakup and early singles careers exactly, perfectly right, and I say this as someone who thinks Ambrose could and should eventually be an absolute megastar.
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Jul 29, 2014 21:13
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Paulocaust posted:The Roman Reigns push is stupid because there shouldn't be a defined "top guy". WWE is always at its worst when they're trying to shove some muscle bound putz down people's throats (Hogan, Diesel, 2003ish HHH, Cena) and is always at it's best when there a group of equals on top (attitude era, smackdown six, any time in the past few years Cena has been hurt). Except they're not? With the exceptions of Cesaro and Ziggler literally every one of those dudes are being pushed like future megastars and/or current ones, and it's not WWE's fault Bryan's dead. You do need one, singular, top program. That's what sells, that's what's always sold. Right now it's Cena/Lesnar as it should be. But Reigns/Orton and Ambrose/Rollins are basically in exactly the same spot right now in the uppercard and are being treated with the same amount of gravity. Same with Steph/Brie which I'm gonna argue is a proxy for Bryan. Then under that is Jericho/Wyatt which is perfectly slotted as an upper midcard feud Wyatt can (and should) win to boost credibility. Just because they might be pushing Reigns more doesn't mean there aren't other guys getting major and/or appropriate pushes. They are dropping the ball with Cesaro, and I'd have him be the Authority muscle rather than THEDEMONKANE but even with a guy like Ziggler who's a real cool wrestleman and a cool dude I get the hesitance considering he KILLS himself selling and has a concussion history.
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Jul 29, 2014 21:26
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weekly font posted:Cesaro would be massively over by now if they just let him be face after Wrestlemania. How hard is it to not gently caress that moment up? Agree and I've bitched about this since the night after Mania even as people were marking out about him being a Heyman Guy. Said it was a mistake from segment one. 
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Jul 29, 2014 21:39
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DrVenkman posted:On another note: Brie Bella is SO bad that she's managed to turn Stephanie into a face. No?
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Jul 29, 2014 22:39
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Can we just stop pretending she is interesting because she is in an angle with Stephanie? But she is interesting because she's in an angle with Stephanie (because Stephanie is loving great and Brie is holding her own).
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Jul 29, 2014 22:45
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Christ almighty, the extent to which some of you have started making GBS threads on Reigns or posting about how he's about to get Cena reactions in the next six months if he doesn't start wrestling like Bryan or some poo poo is incredible. I am perhaps the biggest Reigns fan here but have always acknowledged he's limited, but given how young/inexperienced he is, the fact that he does what he does so incredibly well and that some of it can't be taught (innate physical charisma/aura, chiefly) bodes pretty freaking well for him being a really entertaining singles wrestleman in the future, especially working with dudes like Orton and possibly eventually HHH, Cena, Brock, etc. And I loving love Ambrose and Rollins too. Find me one post where I said ANY of those three couldn't or shouldn't be a top level guy. WWE would be dumbasses to not give all of them time to shine. But that includes Roman. Some of y'all are acting like he's literally Nash in the ring right now. He's no Goldberg, but he's not Nash either.
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Jul 30, 2014 09:52
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Writer Cath posted:It's such a shame that WWE apparently refuses to believe that it's possible to push more than one guy at once. You mean like they're clearly and demonstrably doing right now? This is basically the same conversation where people overuse the term burial. It's possible for a guy to be pushed but not be the literal focus of every program/angle. Ambrose, Rollins, and Reigns have all been prominently featured very often everywhere from opening segments to main events over the last couple months since the breakup. They're all being pushed.
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Jul 30, 2014 15:54
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Rodney the Piper posted:I kind of felt like there was something to the "not enough people getting pushed things" a few years back, but I disagree with it now. Oh, even like a year or two ago it was valid. But now? I don't get it.
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Jul 30, 2014 15:58
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flashy_mcflash posted:These complaints will usually come from people who were around when Cena came in, and can see the similarities. Cena was a guy that people organically came to like because of his gimmick and was then shoved down our throats for years, especially post-Marine when he ditched any semblance of the edgy rapper stuff people liked. It's too easy to see Roman going this same route and being diluted, while also being shoehorned into bad comedy angles because that's what a top WWE guy is now. I was around for like, 4 years before Cena showed up. Not every single main event push is gonna end up like Cena. In fact it's funny people do all this handwringing when they haven't pushed anybody like this for a decade. What similarities are there between Cena and Roman? They both spout off one liners, then get beat up before hitting their signature spots and winning a lot? Welcome to basically every main event babyface ever. I'm not saying there's no way he becomes the next Cena, because I could see it, but that doesn't make it an inevitability. It's weird, because if they don't push a guy, it's "THEY DON'T MAKE NEW STARS" and when they do it's "OH GOD CENA 2.0!" I mean, I'd argue Bryan was getting to be Cena-esque in booking before the injury but guess what? That's not a bad thing because that's top babyface booking and it works. It's always worked. People just didn't see it that way because it's Bryan. It's only a bad thing if other would-be stars are getting trampled underfoot, and we are so far away from that point with Reigns unless you posit that every top guy in WWE ever will be like that forevermore, it's silly. And now re-reading I'm seeing I'm dumb and we're agreeing, so yes I agree!
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Jul 30, 2014 16:47
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Paulocaust posted:People think its going to happen because not only is it extremely obvious, even guys like Big Dave have explicitly said they've heard that's what's going to happen. And Bryan never got pushed like Cena. He was losing to guys like Wade Barrett before Summerslam and jobbed clean to Wyatt at the Rumble. Wyatt's only other clean PPV win in a singles match is over Kofi on the worst PPV ever, Battleground 2013. I'm talking about his booking as a main eventer. Do you realize Cena lost plenty early in his career before he became God King? And all guys like Dave have said is that they're grooming Reigns to be the next star, not "Roman Reigns has been meeting with John Cena to learn most accurately and fully become The Samoan John Cena. It is said by sources backstage that they're hitting snags with Reignss effectively grinning goofily after calling Orton poopy and presenting wacky photoshops." Being a top star=/=John Cena, and every company needs a top star. Would a guy like Ambrose be better? Quite possibly but that still doesn't mean Reigns will literally be Cena, nor is there any guarantee that Ambrose and/or Rollins won't break through either.
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Jul 30, 2014 17:03
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Paulocaust posted:"Roman Reigns is being groomed by the WWE as the heir apparent to John Cena." - Dave Meltzer This means he is seen as the top guy, not Literally John Cena. sportsgenius86 posted:If you don't think they'll end up grooming Reigns to be exactly like John Cena then you have a tremendous ability to maintain faith in a stupid company. I think we're getting caught up on semantics with "exactly like John Cena". I've seen enough good booking for guys WWE actually wants to push (all of The Shield, basically) over the last little while that I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt until OOOOOOOOOOOOHWAHHHHH becomes the same thing in PSP that RRRRAPADOOO is now. That DICK! posted:There must always be a John Cena To some extent this is literally, unironically true.
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Jul 30, 2014 17:20
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Okay this is a 100% serious question now, so hang with me for a second. That number is bad. The cancellations are baaaaad. But I actually expected the number to be a little worse, and aren't the people going NETWORK'S hosed PULL THE PLUG acting like idiots just the way Vince was with his immediate bullush reactions, just in the opposite direction? I realize I might sound like a TNAsylum poster right now, and if I'm being dumb I'm sorry, but the startup costs have been successfully eaten, and in THEORY, something like, say, a bunch of people subbing/re-subbing after canceling/re-upping could happen if, say, Brock wins. Around the time of the Rumble, you might get an uptick in subs if Bryan returns and/or because it's the loving Rumble. Now let me clarify, I get that short term boosts don't work as well with the Network model because the model is contingent on continued subs, but isn't there a reason that six month projections are basically never given too much stock, for better or for worse? I could see WWE doing something after Mania 31 if things don't get better, but aren't people acting like they're gonna nuke the thing doing the same reactionary bullshit people were literally just making fun of the investors for?
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Jul 31, 2014 16:45
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Xenoletum posted:They're trolling hard to get people to argue with them. Add to ignore list and move on. It's like 70% of the forum going  THE STOOGES ARE IN THE ENCLOSED POOL AREA right now though.
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Jul 31, 2014 16:51
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Sydney Bottocks posted:I don't think anyone's going "NETWORK'S hosed PULL THE PLUG" in here, so much as they are going "So do you think Vince will say 'NETWORK'S hosed PULL THE PLUG?'" That's drat sure not how I'm reading it except maybe sportsgenius, A ton of it is "Oh, WWE. You are so hosed." And if there's one thing Vince is known for MORE than being reactionary, it's being all "I'M VINCENT KENNEDY MCMAHON DAMMIT!" and I could see him hanging on for that reason too. This isn't like the XFL or WWF New York where it's an absolute farce. It's a mild to moderate disappointment/failure, and yes, something (either sub numbers, price, or business model) needs to change in the longer term. but I still actually expected the number to be worse, and could see it taking an uptick for/after Summerslam depending on if poo poo happens to excite people or not.
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Jul 31, 2014 16:56
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flashy_mcflash posted:It's a combination of a small number of people legitimately making that claim and a larger number of people joking about the bad number, as well as you being very oversensitive to these two groups. I guess sometimes lately I fail to see who's serious and who's making jokey jokes. sportsgenius86 posted:They had 667k subs and 130k of those found a way out before the end of the first six-month period. That's very bad. I actually 100% agree and I'm not at all saying people don't have reason to go "Eeeeeesh..." but it's a question of degree. Chris James 2 posted:I sure have noticed anytime somebody's in the WWE Discussion thread saying 80% of the posters are idiots who aren't smarter than you, it's always you who's doing it. You would think a person who has that big a problem with people, that often, would leave and thus stop being involved with those people. I don't have a problem with anyone here. I have a difference of outlook/perspective. I'm not saying people are dumber than me (at least not about this particular issue), I am merely questioning whether they're being kinda reactionary or not. I was serious. I don't know as much about business as probably some people here do, so I was legitimately asking if I was being dumb, but in order to do that, I had to express the fact that I'm confused by some of the reactions, and why. That was the only point of the post. I wasn't going all Wizard of Oz on WWE Discussion thread by being all "PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE DUNN BEHIND THE CURTAIN". I was only saying it might be a bit premature to be writing an obit for the WWE Network. I like posting here and talking about wrestlemen and I'm pretty sure lots of people don't mind me posting here or even like me posting here whether in spite of or even because of my relentless positivity, so I think I'll stick around actually. 
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Jul 31, 2014 17:09
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Can you cite some examples, because the bulk of what I've seen has been as flashy_mcflash described: a small number of people being serious and a large number of people making jokes. I haven't seen anyone seriously claim that WWE is heading down the drain along with TNA based off of this that I can recall. Honest to God I'd go back and look but  . A NienNunb post was in there somewhere, plus poo poo like:EugeneJ posted:
but again, I guess maybe I'm not picking up on some people who might make jokey jokes, and I will own up right now, I'm trying to find reasons to be positive because I fuckin' love the Network and don't want to see it die. I may very well be grasping at straws about Old Yeller, and if that's the case and it's annoying to read then my bad, it's just THAT'S WHAT I DO [/Henry].
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Jul 31, 2014 17:15
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flashy_mcflash posted:Hey man, we'll always have the Streak. Too soon  It's not wise to troll me, please stop
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Jul 31, 2014 17:18
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Oh and Canada getting hosed is some bullshit
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Jul 31, 2014 17:22
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Isn't it entirely possible that among the cuts included some .com writers and poo poo? I swear there's like ten of them. And yes I pray to god they shitcanned Dunn and he's worth like 400K off the breakeven point (neither of these things are true but a guy can fantasize). In all seriousness though I feel terrible for the lost jobs and that's terrible. I'm not even happy about the change of the Network's prospects given how many people are probably out of jobs now.
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Jul 31, 2014 18:21
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sportsgenius86 posted:Guys, it's the break even for 2015 which was lower to begin with because of the lack of startup costs. This makes a LOT more sense. Like a lot. And is all the more reason why the first six months are rarely if ever a major indication of anything one way or the other. Another thing: there are some startups that like, clean house the first six months but the product or service being offered is a fad and the thing totally craters once the novelty wears off. If there's any good news for WWE it's that some of their core audience might come and go, but at least a few million worth have been pretty drat stable for a long time. If WWE decides to stick with it, based on those numbers I could pretty easily see the Network starting to generate small profits by 2015, which as I seem to recall is also a thing MRT said and he seems to know his poo poo and isn't Positivity Patrol like me, so who knows?
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Jul 31, 2014 18:33
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Solomonic posted:I got my wedding pictures back today and there's one I didn't know about where I'm talking to a group of guests and my wife is behind me doing the Orton pose in full bridal attire Happy. You should feel happy, because your wife owns. Perigryn posted:And when going out, your role might be played by a different person. 
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Jul 31, 2014 22:23
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HulkaMatt posted:reminds me of Saved By The Bell? But: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYyOXRfsrBA (This video is proof that everyone from random midcarders trying to get over to even Randy loving Orton are hurt by too much oversight creatively. I swear if they scripted less poo poo the business would be comparatively booming right now.  )
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Jul 31, 2014 23:15
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Bryan is gonna end up literally exactly where I expected which is "top 3 in the company, just not #1", just like where I expected and I'm 100% fine with that. It just sucks hard he didn't really get his legit top run how he should've. Also even if we think it's dumb, I think it's really smart of WWE to experiment with choices of payment options before loving with anything else, and actually I wouldn't be surprised at all if some people did the $54 thing. Wouldn't it actually save people money assuming they didn't plan on canceling? That's also smart. Basically every subscription entertainment service or dating site or whatever does that. "You can pay monthly, or pay us a lump sum now and SAVE!" It really does work, and is a win-win for both WWE and people who plan to keep subscribed. SamuraiFoochs fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 02:54
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GAYMIEN SANDOW posted:I'm going to buy multiple accounts to make up for you losers who are canceling. You are doing God's work
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Aug 1, 2014 02:59
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D Lambent posted:I'm not sure if this has been covered completely, but when is a reasonable ETA for all of the Nitros and Thunders to be added to the Network? Here's how it's working. Every WWE, WCW, and ECW PPV ever made ever is already up. TV shows are getting added gradually but steadily, and they're getting to the point in adding the old Raws where Nitro began so I'd imagine they're gonna keep doing what they have been, just also adding Nitros.
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Aug 1, 2014 03:18
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dialhforhero posted:Sadly, I haven't bought the network for these reason: Well #1 will probably vanish once their contract with Hulu is up, at least.
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Aug 1, 2014 03:27
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DeathChicken posted:How do you have Kris Kristofferson's kid and *not* use Kristofferson in his loving name? I swear this company would hire Patrick Stewart and name him Frankie Britafilter. Frankie Britafilter and Joey Splashwater MUST BE A TAG TEAM NOW. This is paramount.
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Aug 1, 2014 17:10
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:These are both awful "songs" for jobbers Ambrose's is at least passable; the sting is really great. The fact that they made it loop even more though is terrible.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:12
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Shima Honnou posted:I like that Ambrose's new theme is so bad that they just loop the revving too, as if they don't even care to try to hide it. The thing is though I thought the first was fine! But they deliberately made it suck. It's like they're trolling. The revving is great for an initial sting, but that should be it.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:43
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By the way even as Taker mark #1 who was there live in person when Taker got beat (I initially thought Taker kicked out, which was why Heyman was shocked when in reality it because Brock had WON), I have since come around to the fact that having Brock break the streak was perfect and I hope Lesnar continues wrecking poo poo. Why? Because Brock's a part-timer, and remains a part-timer. If some full time guy had broken The Streak, he'd need to lose too often. Giving it to Brock solidified Brock forever as an insta-win button and someone worth making GBS threads pants over. I'm not saying Brock should never lose the titles but he should win them (and I believe he's going to, and lose them to Reigns at Mania, at which point much of PSP will probably get Real Mad but as it stands now I will mark out and laugh) and then Brock can leave for a while again to feud with Bryan or a returning Punk or something equally needing a huge fight feel. I will be legitimately shocked if Cena wins at Summerslam. If Cena had lost at ER '12, I'd feel the opposite but I honestly think they'll have Brock win to generate excitement and set up a Cena/Brock rubber match down the line. I guess the tl;dr is Brock owns and I hope he wins the titles and eventually loses them and everything Brock-related will continue to be a huge moment which is cool.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:06
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