- The BLT
- Jan 3, 2008
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Do you know the sandwhich man?
|
Wife Fiona started developing feelings for a mutual friend of ours; when she realized, she came to me and we fought it out. We believe in total honesty. Both of us were mostly terrified that the other was going to leave them because of this. We talked it out (extensively -- repeatedly and at length, for well over a couple of months), but man it felt like my soul was dying the whole time.
Fiona told me I am still the most important in her life and she would do anything for me, but felt obligated to tell me this. She also said that if I wished, she would stop seeing him entirely. This was a bitter situation, but hearing this meant a lot to me.
I've always held uncommon beliefs -- for example, I always believed that whatever two adults agreed on (that didn't affect anybody else) was morally 'okay' (though this doesn't mean it's smart). I also believe that people don't control their feelings, so I don't blame her for developing them; though I believe people do control their actions and should be held accountable for them.
I realize that when people do things against their nature, it can make them anywhere from uncomfortable to completely miserable. I love her to pieces and trust her entirely, so as we worked things out I said she could still see him. I try to have foresight in all things though, so I set ground rules to prevent us from crashing and burning. He was the only guy she had any additional privileges with, for starters -- no randos. We discussed what she was allowed to do, and what she was not allowed to do. I told her what I would need to know, and what I needed not to know. What she was allowed to do around other people; what they were allowed to know. I made it clear that I wasn't into humiliation, and also that I didn't want our relationship to deteriorate or us to see each other less often to their benefit.
When she realized I wasn't leaving she was relieved; when she realized that she didn't have to stop seeing him she was blown away. As for her, she immediately gave me permission to do almost whatever I want (wear a condom) with almost anybody I want (not her sister). I thought, fat chance -- my introversion approaches social anxiety, and I don't speak the language of this country. Who the hell am I going to seduce?
A lot of things have gotten really good since then, actually. Our mutual friend hangs out with us more -- he's fun, and an honest-to-god sweetheart. He says he isn't romantically interested in Fiona, which makes her kind of sad, but makes me feel just a little relieved. Both of us are doing more nice little things for each other now. I think our sex has gotten better and more frequent too.
I've started loosening up on her restrictions -- now she can try out this additional thing; now she doesn't have to ask me for permission to do X every time; and honestly, it's okay. Previously I used to be fully committed to monogamy, and even after she gave me permission to do Everything, I felt guilty thinking about being with other women, and for only allowing her some privileges while I could theoretically do anything. But I've gotten kinda-used to the idea that we're in some kind of poly relationship, even if I don't have anybody and it's not 'open' even for her.
However!
From the get-go, Fiona wanted to know how I felt about the idea of her being with other women. I was actually more okay with it -- I am just not threatened by them as men. I still didn't like the idea of her falling in love with a woman, but that concern would fade. Plus, I figured there was the possibility that we might find a girl that we both like, that likes both of us : q [men are pigs].
Since then, Fiona has been flirting super-hard with a common friend of ours (Roxie); hanging out, inviting her over for dinner and drinks, spending the night at her place, and so on. This came later in our little journey, so by now I wasn't feeling too jealous and actually encouraged her. I didn't have many hopes for Roxie and myself -- We've hardly spoken, and I was still simultaneously fascinated and disgusted with the idea of me actually being with another women. Roxie briefly suggested that we visit a museum together, but I got the impression that this was a token gesture since I don't have many friends. But I did figure there was the chance that maybe my wife could get a girlfriend, so that was cool : 3
Fiona has been feeling things out and sending signals for a while so it wasn't such a huge surprise. In preparation for what was to come, she told Roxie the whole truth about our situation -- that she had a 'special friend', and that I was also allowed to do anything. Apparently Roxie was really surprised but ultimately not judgmental. At a later date when they'd both been having a lot of fun, Fiona came out to her. Sadly, Roxie gently said no. I had to console my wife because a woman rejected her. Yep. That was a little weird : |
We were all at a party a couple days later, and Roxie mentions again that we should go to a museum together. I -- blown away, thinking she had originally mentioned it as a token gesture -- was excited, because among the few friends I have, few of them like doing museums and none of those are dependable. We made firm plans to go.
On the way home, I ask my wife if she had mentioned the original museum offer to Roxie? She says no. It seems she thought of this on her own, then. I joked that maybe Roxie was into. Fiona looks me dead in the eyes and says that it would really hurt her if I dated Roxie after she had her heart broken -- in fact, I was forbidden from dating her. So I have crossed Roxie off my list of kinda-maybes, but even then, I have been fantasizing just a little.
Today was the day. I was super nervous, not because 'omg a girl', but because she speaks very little English and I speak very little Not-English. But as the day went on, I actually had a really amazing time. I understood a whole lot of what she said, and vice-versa; it felt like a victory when we struggled to understand each other successfully, and she was super-sweet and understanding. She's also funny, and laughs at my terrible jokes : q
I left the adventure feeling really fulfilled and, I am wondering, maybe a little charmed. Logically, I have to think that a lot of this positivity is not just infatuation, but comes from making a lovely new friend, and feeling proud of my developing language skills.
On the other hand, I was already a little interested in Roxie, but had smothered those thoughts because I figured there was nothing there -- she is quite attractive, great personality, and we did have a great time. And I am a merciless rationalizer, and it would be just like me to convince myself that I didn't like her because I know it would mean deeeeeeep trouble.
Is this just because of forbidden fruit?
tl;dr - Wife falls in love with man. We argue. I allow her to date man and she allows me to date anybody. Everything goes better than expected. Wife flirts with love interest. Love interest rejects her. Love interest invites me to museum. Wife forbids me to date love interest. I meet love interest at museum as a friend, have a great time, now wonder if I like her.
tl;dr tl;dr - As a rationalist, I have mocked the world because people turn things into a soap opera and then find that I became my most interesting show.
Wife Fiona started developing feelings for a mutual friend of ours; when she realized, she came to me and we fought it out. We believe in total honesty. Both of us were mostly terrified that the other was going to leave them because of this. We talked it out (extensively -- repeatedly and at length, for well over a couple of months), but man it felt like my soul was dying the whole time.
Fiona told me I am still the most important in her life and she would do anything for me, but felt obligated to tell me this. She also said that if I wished, she would stop seeing him entirely. This was a bitter situation, but hearing this meant a lot to me.
I've always held uncommon beliefs -- for example, I always believed that whatever two adults agreed on (that didn't affect anybody else) was morally 'okay' (though this doesn't mean it's smart). I also believe that people don't control their feelings, so I don't blame her for developing them; though I believe people do control their actions and should be held accountable for them.
I realize that when people do things against their nature, it can make them anywhere from uncomfortable to completely miserable. I love her to pieces and trust her entirely, so as we worked things out I said she could still see him. I try to have foresight in all things though, so I set ground rules to prevent us from crashing and burning. He was the only guy she had any additional privileges with, for starters -- no randos. We discussed what she was allowed to do, and what she was not allowed to do. I told her what I would need to know, and what I needed not to know. What she was allowed to do around other people; what they were allowed to know. I made it clear that I wasn't into humiliation, and also that I didn't want our relationship to deteriorate or us to see each other less often to their benefit.
When she realized I wasn't leaving she was relieved; when she realized that she didn't have to stop seeing him she was blown away. As for her, she immediately gave me permission to do almost whatever I want (wear a condom) with almost anybody I want (not her sister). I thought, fat chance -- my introversion approaches social anxiety, and I don't speak the language of this country. Who the hell am I going to seduce?
A lot of things have gotten really good since then, actually. Our mutual friend hangs out with us more -- he's fun, and an honest-to-god sweetheart. He says he isn't romantically interested in Fiona, which makes her kind of sad, but makes me feel just a little relieved. Both of us are doing more nice little things for each other now. I think our sex has gotten better and more frequent too.
I've started loosening up on her restrictions -- now she can try out this additional thing; now she doesn't have to ask me for permission to do X every time; and honestly, it's okay. Previously I used to be fully committed to monogamy, and even after she gave me permission to do Everything, I felt guilty thinking about being with other women, and for only allowing her some privileges while I could theoretically do anything. But I've gotten kinda-used to the idea that we're in some kind of poly relationship, even if I don't have anybody and it's not 'open' even for her.
However!
From the get-go, Fiona wanted to know how I felt about the idea of her being with other women. I was actually more okay with it -- I am just not threatened by them as men. I still didn't like the idea of her falling in love with a woman, but that concern would fade. Plus, I figured there was the possibility that we might find a girl that we both like, that likes both of us : q [men are pigs].
Since then, Fiona has been flirting super-hard with a common friend of ours (Roxie); hanging out, inviting her over for dinner and drinks, spending the night at her place, and so on. This came later in our little journey, so by now I wasn't feeling too jealous and actually encouraged her. I didn't have many hopes for Roxie and myself -- We've hardly spoken, and I was still simultaneously fascinated and disgusted with the idea of me actually being with another women. Roxie briefly suggested that we visit a museum together, but I got the impression that this was a token gesture since I don't have many friends. But I did figure there was the chance that maybe my wife could get a girlfriend, so that was cool : 3
Fiona has been feeling things out and sending signals for a while so it wasn't such a huge surprise. In preparation for what was to come, she told Roxie the whole truth about our situation -- that she had a 'special friend', and that I was also allowed to do anything. Apparently Roxie was really surprised but ultimately not judgmental. At a later date when they'd both been having a lot of fun, Fiona came out to her. Sadly, Roxie gently said no. I had to console my wife because a woman rejected her. Yep. That was a little weird : |
We were all at a party a couple days later, and Roxie mentions again that we should go to a museum together. I -- blown away, thinking she had originally mentioned it as a token gesture -- was excited, because among the few friends I have, few of them like doing museums and none of those are dependable. We made firm plans to go.
On the way home, I ask my wife if she had mentioned the original museum offer to Roxie? She says no. It seems she thought of this on her own, then. I joked that maybe Roxie was into. Fiona looks me dead in the eyes and says that it would really hurt her if I dated Roxie after she had her heart broken -- in fact, I was forbidden from dating her. So I have crossed Roxie off my list of kinda-maybes, but even then, I have been fantasizing just a little.
Today was the day. I was super nervous, not because 'omg a girl', but because she speaks very little English and I speak very little Not-English. But as the day went on, I actually had a really amazing time. I understood a whole lot of what she said, and vice-versa; it felt like a victory when we struggled to understand each other successfully, and she was super-sweet and understanding. She's also funny, and laughs at my terrible jokes : q
I left the adventure feeling really fulfilled and, I am wondering, maybe a little charmed. Logically, I have to think that a lot of this positivity is not just infatuation, but comes from making a lovely new friend, and feeling proud of my developing language skills.
On the other hand, I was already a little interested in Roxie, but had smothered those thoughts because I figured there was nothing there -- she is quite attractive, great personality, and we did have a great time. And I am a merciless rationalizer, and it would be just like me to convince myself that I didn't like her because I know it would mean deeeeeeep trouble.
Is this just because of forbidden fruit?
tl;dr - Wife falls in love with man. We argue. I allow her to date man and she allows me to date anybody. Everything goes better than expected. Wife flirts with love interest. Love interest rejects her. Love interest invites me to museum. Wife forbids me to date love interest. I meet love interest at museum as a friend, have a great time, now wonder if I like her.
tl;dr tl;dr - As a rationalist, I have mocked the world because people turn things into a soap opera and then find that I became my most interesting show.
Wife Fiona started developing feelings for a mutual friend of ours; when she realized, she came to me and we fought it out. We believe in total honesty. Both of us were mostly terrified that the other was going to leave them because of this. We talked it out (extensively -- repeatedly and at length, for well over a couple of months), but man it felt like my soul was dying the whole time.
Fiona told me I am still the most important in her life and she would do anything for me, but felt obligated to tell me this. She also said that if I wished, she would stop seeing him entirely. This was a bitter situation, but hearing this meant a lot to me.
I've always held uncommon beliefs -- for example, I always believed that whatever two adults agreed on (that didn't affect anybody else) was morally 'okay' (though this doesn't mean it's smart). I also believe that people don't control their feelings, so I don't blame her for developing them; though I believe people do control their actions and should be held accountable for them.
I realize that when people do things against their nature, it can make them anywhere from uncomfortable to completely miserable. I love her to pieces and trust her entirely, so as we worked things out I said she could still see him. I try to have foresight in all things though, so I set ground rules to prevent us from crashing and burning. He was the only guy she had any additional privileges with, for starters -- no randos. We discussed what she was allowed to do, and what she was not allowed to do. I told her what I would need to know, and what I needed not to know. What she was allowed to do around other people; what they were allowed to know. I made it clear that I wasn't into humiliation, and also that I didn't want our relationship to deteriorate or us to see each other less often to their benefit.
When she realized I wasn't leaving she was relieved; when she realized that she didn't have to stop seeing him she was blown away. As for her, she immediately gave me permission to do almost whatever I want (wear a condom) with almost anybody I want (not her sister). I thought, fat chance -- my introversion approaches social anxiety, and I don't speak the language of this country. Who the hell am I going to seduce?
A lot of things have gotten really good since then, actually. Our mutual friend hangs out with us more -- he's fun, and an honest-to-god sweetheart. He says he isn't romantically interested in Fiona, which makes her kind of sad, but makes me feel just a little relieved. Both of us are doing more nice little things for each other now. I think our sex has gotten better and more frequent too.
I've started loosening up on her restrictions -- now she can try out this additional thing; now she doesn't have to ask me for permission to do X every time; and honestly, it's okay. Previously I used to be fully committed to monogamy, and even after she gave me permission to do Everything, I felt guilty thinking about being with other women, and for only allowing her some privileges while I could theoretically do anything. But I've gotten kinda-used to the idea that we're in some kind of poly relationship, even if I don't have anybody and it's not 'open' even for her.
However!
From the get-go, Fiona wanted to know how I felt about the idea of her being with other women. I was actually more okay with it -- I am just not threatened by them as men. I still didn't like the idea of her falling in love with a woman, but that concern would fade. Plus, I figured there was the possibility that we might find a girl that we both like, that likes both of us : q [men are pigs].
Since then, Fiona has been flirting super-hard with a common friend of ours (Roxie); hanging out, inviting her over for dinner and drinks, spending the night at her place, and so on. This came later in our little journey, so by now I wasn't feeling too jealous and actually encouraged her. I didn't have many hopes for Roxie and myself -- We've hardly spoken, and I was still simultaneously fascinated and disgusted with the idea of me actually being with another women. Roxie briefly suggested that we visit a museum together, but I got the impression that this was a token gesture since I don't have many friends. But I did figure there was the chance that maybe my wife could get a girlfriend, so that was cool : 3
Fiona has been feeling things out and sending signals for a while so it wasn't such a huge surprise. In preparation for what was to come, she told Roxie the whole truth about our situation -- that she had a 'special friend', and that I was also allowed to do anything. Apparently Roxie was really surprised but ultimately not judgmental. At a later date when they'd both been having a lot of fun, Fiona came out to her. Sadly, Roxie gently said no. I had to console my wife because a woman rejected her. Yep. That was a little weird : |
We were all at a party a couple days later, and Roxie mentions again that we should go to a museum together. I -- blown away, thinking she had originally mentioned it as a token gesture -- was excited, because among the few friends I have, few of them like doing museums and none of those are dependable. We made firm plans to go.
On the way home, I ask my wife if she had mentioned the original museum offer to Roxie? She says no. It seems she thought of this on her own, then. I joked that maybe Roxie was into. Fiona looks me dead in the eyes and says that it would really hurt her if I dated Roxie after she had her heart broken -- in fact, I was forbidden from dating her. So I have crossed Roxie off my list of kinda-maybes, but even then, I have been fantasizing just a little.
Today was the day. I was super nervous, not because 'omg a girl', but because she speaks very little English and I speak very little Not-English. But as the day went on, I actually had a really amazing time. I understood a whole lot of what she said, and vice-versa; it felt like a victory when we struggled to understand each other successfully, and she was super-sweet and understanding. She's also funny, and laughs at my terrible jokes : q
I left the adventure feeling really fulfilled and, I am wondering, maybe a little charmed. Logically, I have to think that a lot of this positivity is not just infatuation, but comes from making a lovely new friend, and feeling proud of my developing language skills.
On the other hand, I was already a little interested in Roxie, but had smothered those thoughts because I figured there was nothing there -- she is quite attractive, great personality, and we did have a great time. And I am a merciless rationalizer, and it would be just like me to convince myself that I didn't like her because I know it would mean deeeeeeep trouble.
Is this just because of forbidden fruit?
tl;dr - Wife falls in love with man. We argue. I allow her to date man and she allows me to date anybody. Everything goes better than expected. Wife flirts with love interest. Love interest rejects her. Love interest invites me to museum. Wife forbids me to date love interest. I meet love interest at museum as a friend, have a great time, now wonder if I like her.
tl;dr tl;dr - As a rationalist, I have mocked the world because people turn things into a soap opera and then find that I became my most interesting show.
Wife Fiona started developing feelings for a mutual friend of ours; when she realized, she came to me and we fought it out. We believe in total honesty. Both of us were mostly terrified that the other was going to leave them because of this. We talked it out (extensively -- repeatedly and at length, for well over a couple of months), but man it felt like my soul was dying the whole time.
Fiona told me I am still the most important in her life and she would do anything for me, but felt obligated to tell me this. She also said that if I wished, she would stop seeing him entirely. This was a bitter situation, but hearing this meant a lot to me.
I've always held uncommon beliefs -- for example, I always believed that whatever two adults agreed on (that didn't affect anybody else) was morally 'okay' (though this doesn't mean it's smart). I also believe that people don't control their feelings, so I don't blame her for developing them; though I believe people do control their actions and should be held accountable for them.
I realize that when people do things against their nature, it can make them anywhere from uncomfortable to completely miserable. I love her to pieces and trust her entirely, so as we worked things out I said she could still see him. I try to have foresight in all things though, so I set ground rules to prevent us from crashing and burning. He was the only guy she had any additional privileges with, for starters -- no randos. We discussed what she was allowed to do, and what she was not allowed to do. I told her what I would need to know, and what I needed not to know. What she was allowed to do around other people; what they were allowed to know. I made it clear that I wasn't into humiliation, and also that I didn't want our relationship to deteriorate or us to see each other less often to their benefit.
When she realized I wasn't leaving she was relieved; when she realized that she didn't have to stop seeing him she was blown away. As for her, she immediately gave me permission to do almost whatever I want (wear a condom) with almost anybody I want (not her sister). I thought, fat chance -- my introversion approaches social anxiety, and I don't speak the language of this country. Who the hell am I going to seduce?
A lot of things have gotten really good since then, actually. Our mutual friend hangs out with us more -- he's fun, and an honest-to-god sweetheart. He says he isn't romantically interested in Fiona, which makes her kind of sad, but makes me feel just a little relieved. Both of us are doing more nice little things for each other now. I think our sex has gotten better and more frequent too.
I've started loosening up on her restrictions -- now she can try out this additional thing; now she doesn't have to ask me for permission to do X every time; and honestly, it's okay. Previously I used to be fully committed to monogamy, and even after she gave me permission to do Everything, I felt guilty thinking about being with other women, and for only allowing her some privileges while I could theoretically do anything. But I've gotten kinda-used to the idea that we're in some kind of poly relationship, even if I don't have anybody and it's not 'open' even for her.
However!
From the get-go, Fiona wanted to know how I felt about the idea of her being with other women. I was actually more okay with it -- I am just not threatened by them as men. I still didn't like the idea of her falling in love with a woman, but that concern would fade. Plus, I figured there was the possibility that we might find a girl that we both like, that likes both of us : q [men are pigs].
Since then, Fiona has been flirting super-hard with a common friend of ours (Roxie); hanging out, inviting her over for dinner and drinks, spending the night at her place, and so on. This came later in our little journey, so by now I wasn't feeling too jealous and actually encouraged her. I didn't have many hopes for Roxie and myself -- We've hardly spoken, and I was still simultaneously fascinated and disgusted with the idea of me actually being with another women. Roxie briefly suggested that we visit a museum together, but I got the impression that this was a token gesture since I don't have many friends. But I did figure there was the chance that maybe my wife could get a girlfriend, so that was cool : 3
Fiona has been feeling things out and sending signals for a while so it wasn't such a huge surprise. In preparation for what was to come, she told Roxie the whole truth about our situation -- that she had a 'special friend', and that I was also allowed to do anything. Apparently Roxie was really surprised but ultimately not judgmental. At a later date when they'd both been having a lot of fun, Fiona came out to her. Sadly, Roxie gently said no. I had to console my wife because a woman rejected her. Yep. That was a little weird : |
We were all at a party a couple days later, and Roxie mentions again that we should go to a museum together. I -- blown away, thinking she had originally mentioned it as a token gesture -- was excited, because among the few friends I have, few of them like doing museums and none of those are dependable. We made firm plans to go.
On the way home, I ask my wife if she had mentioned the original museum offer to Roxie? She says no. It seems she thought of this on her own, then. I joked that maybe Roxie was into. Fiona looks me dead in the eyes and says that it would really hurt her if I dated Roxie after she had her heart broken -- in fact, I was forbidden from dating her. So I have crossed Roxie off my list of kinda-maybes, but even then, I have been fantasizing just a little.
Today was the day. I was super nervous, not because 'omg a girl', but because she speaks very little English and I speak very little Not-English. But as the day went on, I actually had a really amazing time. I understood a whole lot of what she said, and vice-versa; it felt like a victory when we struggled to understand each other successfully, and she was super-sweet and understanding. She's also funny, and laughs at my terrible jokes : q
I left the adventure feeling really fulfilled and, I am wondering, maybe a little charmed. Logically, I have to think that a lot of this positivity is not just infatuation, but comes from making a lovely new friend, and feeling proud of my developing language skills.
On the other hand, I was already a little interested in Roxie, but had smothered those thoughts because I figured there was nothing there -- she is quite attractive, great personality, and we did have a great time. And I am a merciless rationalizer, and it would be just like me to convince myself that I didn't like her because I know it would mean deeeeeeep trouble.
Is this just because of forbidden fruit?
tl;dr - Wife falls in love with man. We argue. I allow her to date man and she allows me to date anybody. Everything goes better than expected. Wife flirts with love interest. Love interest rejects her. Love interest invites me to museum. Wife forbids me to date love interest. I meet love interest at museum as a friend, have a great time, now wonder if I like her.
tl;dr tl;dr - As a rationalist, I have mocked the world because people turn things into a soap opera and then find that I became my most interesting show.
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Aug 9, 2014 21:25
