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Basebf555 posted:There really is no Robin Williams movie that is immune to whats happened. I watched Jumanji over the weekend and all the Alan Parish character wants to do is connect with his father, and then he spends 25 years alone in the loving jungle before finally everything can be set right in the end. Except this is real life and there's no magical board game to reset everything Yeah, Jumanji is a really depressing film and it's telling that one of the gags in the end of the film is telling the kids' parents not to go on a ski trip because they know the parents will die.
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Aug 18, 2014 17:37
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I watched Insomnia for the first time yesterday. It thought that was a pretty good movie, with a pretty good understated performance from Robin Williams, even if Al Pacino was the focus of the movie. I forgot to rewatch Jumanji! I watched that movie so many times during my childhood. I should get around to it.
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Aug 18, 2014 17:53
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computer parts posted:Yeah, Jumanji is a really depressing film and it's telling that one of the gags in the end of the film is telling the kids' parents not to go on a ski trip because they know the parents will die. That whole ending is weird. The two main characters lived their lives through adulthood and suddenly they're children again, remembering everything. The whole scene proceeds as if that's not a mind-blowing concept. The kids just laugh it off! e: And that's not even to mention the fact that Robin Williams' character has endured a lifetime of horrors struggling to survive in a jungle with giant mosquitoes in it. Kull the Conqueror fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 23:06
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Robin Williams' dad and the hunter dude in Jumanji are both played by the same actor, which I always thought was a weird Freudian kind of take on a children's movie. Robin Williams seems to play a lot of roles where he is haunted by metaphorical depictions of his characters' demons who may or may not actually exist. The Fisher King, Jumanji, Hook, etc. for any film studies undergraduates reading this post.
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Aug 19, 2014 01:04
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exquisite tea posted:Robin Williams seems to play a lot of roles where he is haunted by metaphorical depictions of his characters' demons who may or may not actually exist. The Fisher King, Jumanji, Hook, etc. for any film studies undergraduates reading this post. I almost wonder if those roles were a form of therapy for him.
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Aug 19, 2014 01:16
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wins.
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Kull the Conqueror posted:That whole ending is weird. The two main characters lived their lives through adulthood and suddenly they're children again, remembering everything. The whole scene proceeds as if that's not a mind-blowing concept. The kids just laugh it off! A lifetime of horrors struggling to survive in a jungle with his own dad hunting him down with an elephant gun, yeah.
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Aug 19, 2014 01:17
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Be sure to check out HUNDU's own Movie of the Month thread for Jumanji.
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Aug 19, 2014 08:52
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Two links I wanted to share: Regardless of how you feel about Cracked, they are a comedy website made of up comedians, and this post really nails the connection between depression and comedy. And this NPR article came out the day after and isn't directly related, but there's one quote that I feel was especially poignant: quote:There's a stigma that goes with having a mental illness. It comes with this idea of weakness of will. Which is weird, because if somebody had a broken arm you'd never tell them to will their way out of it. Bye, Robin.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:33
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404notfound posted:And this NPR article came out the day after and isn't directly related, but there's one quote that I feel was especially poignant: The people who are skeptical of mental illness are the same people who believe in the just world fallacy. It's less skepticism and more an inability to accept the idea that large portions of your life and mental state are entirely out of your control. Some people just need to believe that happiness is a switch you choose to turn on to be able to function normally and not have an existential breakdown. They can accept that their bodies can break, but they can't accept that their minds can. Probably because if you're careful you can avoid physical harm, but there's nothing you can do to avoid mental illness. In that way it's weird that we usually feel bad for someone who broke a bone doing something stupid but tons of people have disdain for someone who suffers from depression through no fault of their own.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:56
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mr. mephistopheles posted:The people who are skeptical of mental illness are the same people who believe in the just world fallacy. It's less skepticism and more an inability to accept the idea that large portions of your life and mental state are entirely out of your control. Some people just need to believe that happiness is a switch you choose to turn on to be able to function normally and not have an existential breakdown. They can accept that their bodies can break, but they can't accept that their minds can. Probably because if you're careful you can avoid physical harm, but there's nothing you can do to avoid mental illness. In that way it's weird that we usually feel bad for someone who broke a bone doing something stupid but tons of people have disdain for someone who suffers from depression through no fault of their own. To expand, it's also a failing of people who make a distinction between the brain and the mind, as if the mind is something other than merely the perceptions provided by the physicality of the brain. It's like saying a person should be able to cut of his tongue and will himself to still be able to taste.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:09
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AnonSpore posted:A lifetime of horrors struggling to survive in a jungle with his own dad hunting him down with an elephant gun, yeah. It's the most vivid explanation that the movie gives that the game feeds off of the people who play it. Notice also that Judy gives her parents a very Kipling-esque death, and then they happen upon the Veldt; that Peter cheating turns him into the first thing he manifested when he rolled the dice; and the stampede happens at precisely the moment when Alan and Sarah are beginning to fight like a married couple. Criminal Minded posted:Be sure to check out HUNDU's own Movie of the Month thread for Jumanji.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:26
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After Jungle Jumanji and Space Jumanji, we need Horror Jumanji. Like Castle Ravenloft or something. Your rolled the dice, we came. 
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Aug 20, 2014 05:13
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404notfound posted:... No, but it would be fairly accurate to say that they had a weakness of bones.
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Aug 20, 2014 19:05
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MonsieurChoc posted:After Jungle Jumanji and Space Jumanji, we need Horror Jumanji. Like Castle Ravenloft or something. Isn't that basically what that Ouija movie is going to be?
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Aug 20, 2014 19:08
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computer parts posted:Isn't that basically what that Ouija movie is going to be? I meant a good movie.
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Aug 20, 2014 20:01
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I went for my first therapy session today. I've had my demons all my life, and as stupid and selfish as it probably sounds this whole situation convinced me that it was finally time to get some real, honest help. Just one session and it's helped immensely, so if anything positive comes of this I hope others can be persuaded to do the same.
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Aug 20, 2014 21:44
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Adrianics posted:I went for my first therapy session today. I've had my demons all my life, and as stupid and selfish as it probably sounds this whole situation convinced me that it was finally time to get some real, honest help. Just one session and it's helped immensely, so if anything positive comes of this I hope others can be persuaded to do the same. The only celebrity I know who's been open about seeing a therapist is John Cleese. I wish more celebrities would open up about it, since as sad as it is that America works this way, I think celebrity endorsements could help a lot of people. (I feel like the one good thing to come out of Robin Williams' death is that it's led to an increase in people taking mental illness seriously.)
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Aug 20, 2014 22:11
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I'm way late to this news, but drat this is sad. This man did more for Trans Rights and Advocacy with Mrs. Doubtfire than any other person in the last 30 years.
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Aug 20, 2014 23:29
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Narciss posted:I'm way late to this news, but drat this is sad. This man did more for Trans Rights and Advocacy with Mrs. Doubtfire than any other person in the last 30 years. I do think Mrs. Doubtfire was incredibly queer-positive for its time, though. Using actual gay actors Harvey Fierstein and Scott Capurro to play a gay couple was pretty cool, especially since at no point did the film make a big deal about their homosexuality. They were just two guys who loved and wanted to support their brother/brother-in-law. Even Robin Williams' utterance of "Uncle Frank and Aunt Jack" was refreshingly insouciant. The whole thing tied in wonderfully with Mrs. Doubtfire's overall message of support for unconventional families.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:48
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I agree that the portrayal of the gay couple was perfect in that movie, and I always loved the offhand "uncle Frank and aunt Jack". I'm not an authority (just a fag) but I do not think Mrs. Doubtphire was transphobic, particularly. Mostly because it never overreached, and never attempted to make any comments about actual transgendered people, or even transvestites. It's a family comedy that's about a father who is willing to do anything to be with his kids, and it just so happens that this is the way he goes about it, based on his talents and the resources at his disposal. I think the really important scenes are at the end, where we see his successful TV show, because it counterbalances any perceived negativity from the judge's pronouncement - even though it was a pronouncement we were meant to feel sad and unhappy about when it's made, it is the only moment in the film (I felt) when we are reminded of any potential transphobic or homophobic prejudices society may have about what Daniel Hillard did to be with his kids. Never is the suggestion made that "Mrs. Doubtphire" was a corrupting influence on children by virtue of being a man dressed as a woman; to the contrary, this is why those final scenes where we see the successful television show are so important. The conclusion the film makes is that Mrs. Doubtphire is such a wonderful and positive creation that she enters the lives of countless children - which is a very subversive and "live and let live" attitude to have, if you ask me, and I don't perceive anything transphobic about it. Sure, some of the jokes are a bit crass, but it's a silly comedy and this is what makes it funny. I think it really did a good job, in retrospect. I haven't seen it in ages though, would be interesting to watch it again - I did watch it at least a dozen times as a kid though, I think, but everyone did c'mon.
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Aug 21, 2014 02:18
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kaworu posted:I agree that the portrayal of the gay couple was perfect in that movie, and I always loved the offhand "uncle Frank and aunt Jack". I love this post. I remember watching this almost every day as a kid, and the film got hard to watch for a little while when my parents were going through some problems. After watching the film, I asked my mom if she was going to divorce my dad. Years later, she did. While I'm much older, it kinda hurts me. But the ending of the film really hits me hard, in a good way. I love the movie.
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Aug 21, 2014 02:49
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There actually is a scene early in Ms. Doubtfire where Williams's character pretends to be other prospective nannies over the phone to Sally Field. They're all awful and the intent is to make Ms. Doubtfire the clear and only choice. One of the fake nannies mentions that she doesn't work with boys since she used to be a boy and Sally Field slams the phone down in disgust. So, while Ms. Doubtfire as a character may not be transphobic, there is at least one clear transphobic scene in the movie.
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Aug 21, 2014 04:42
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MonsieurChoc posted:Your rolled the dice, we came. I'd kind of want Horror Jumanji to have a little less terror at the end. Like Count Strahd is mortally horrified that the kids thought that they were in actual danger at any time when he was throwing skeletons and bathtubs full of blood at them in the millipede pits of Dr. Scalpel.
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Aug 21, 2014 05:16
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Could we not needlessly nitpick a 21 year old movie? Also while it doesn't make it right, attitudes where far different back then.
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Aug 21, 2014 05:31
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Alteisen posted:Also while it doesn't make it right, attitudes where far different back then.
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Aug 21, 2014 05:37
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CloseFriend posted:I've heard Mrs. Doubtfire mentioned as transphobic. I haven't seen it since childhood, but that would make an interesting debate, especially since a lot of other 90s comedies were virulently transphobic (like Ace Ventura). kaworu posted:Never is the suggestion made that "Mrs. Doubtphire" was a corrupting influence on children by virtue of being a man dressed as a woman; to the contrary, this is why those final scenes where we see the successful television show are so important. The conclusion the film makes is that Mrs. Doubtphire is such a wonderful and positive creation that she enters the lives of countless children - which is a very subversive and "live and let live" attitude to have, if you ask me, and I don't perceive anything transphobic about it. Timeless Appeal posted:There actually is a scene early in Ms. Doubtfire where Williams's character pretends to be other prospective nannies over the phone to Sally Field. They're all awful and the intent is to make Ms. Doubtfire the clear and only choice. One of the fake nannies mentions that she doesn't work with boys since she used to be a boy and Sally Field slams the phone down in disgust. So, while Ms. Doubtfire as a character may not be transphobic, there is at least one clear transphobic scene in the movie. I've heard the complaint that Mrs. Doubtfire is transphobic before, too, but it always struck me as fantastically missing the forest for the trees, since the film, as Timeless Appeal points out, doesn't actually address transexuality or transgenderism as anything other than a joke. Looking at a film that features cross-dressing and deciding that this is commentary on transgenderism or transexuality - whether demeaning or subversive - is reactionary and reductive. It moves the goal post from analyzing and critiquing the content of the film to attempting to basically dowsing the 'secret meaning' of the text, and it furthermore just gives ammunition to the opposite reductive argument that it's actually an example of queer-positive subversion. With all do respect to kaworu, just because the film isn't transphobic doesn't mean it's subversive or queer-positive. There's nothing particularly subversive about a film which posits that, "Only a man knows how a woman is supposed to behave." (For a subversive film, try David Cronenberg's M. Butterfly, which I'm quoting.) The problem of the film isn't queer- or transphobia; it's a very cliche, understated sexism. While the film plays up Williams as naive and impulsive and irresponsible, his absence from the family clearly creates an emotional vacuum which becomes the dramatic tension of the story. Though Williams clearly invades the security and privacy of the family by taking on the guise of a Mother Goose, this is ultimately legitimized by his becoming 'America's Grandma,' by becoming more of a maternal figure than Sally Field - the real working woman whose only crime is that she isn't a chameleon. This is emphasized by Field ultimately deciding to share custody with Williams, and having Mrs. Doubtfire's final message actually being to her. Despite the fact that she's a 'working woman,' by the end of the film she's still a 'stay at home mom' who learns to accept that the absence of the father connotes the reciprocal dissolution of the mother, necessitating Williams as our vigilante hero violating the laws and conventions of society in order to bring the traditional family equation back to life. It's a men's rights activists wet dream.
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Aug 21, 2014 05:50
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Ratoslov posted:I'd kind of want Horror Jumanji to have a little less terror at the end. Like Count Strahd is mortally horrified that the kids thought that they were in actual danger at any time when he was throwing skeletons and bathtubs full of blood at them in the millipede pits of Dr. Scalpel. Yeah, but I couldn't resist using the Cenobite smiley.
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Aug 21, 2014 06:01
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K. Waste posted:I've heard the complaint that Mrs. Doubtfire is transphobic before, too, but it always struck me as fantastically missing the forest for the trees, since the film, as Timeless Appeal points out, doesn't actually address transexuality or transgenderism as anything other than a joke. Looking at a film that features cross-dressing and deciding that this is commentary on transgenderism or transexuality - whether demeaning or subversive - is reactionary and reductive. It moves the goal post from analyzing and critiquing the content of the film to attempting to basically dowsing the 'secret meaning' of the text, and it furthermore just gives ammunition to the opposite reductive argument that it's actually an example of queer-positive subversion. You're not wrong at all - that's a perfectly valid interpretation of the film and quite correct. That being said, what you're describing strikes me as, well, like you said - clear and understated sexism. Though, when you break it down it like you did in your post it does not sound particularly understated. In any case, I agree that it's a problem with the film, and I feel a little foolish for not having seen it more clearly - but it has been a while, and the last time I watched it I wasn't aware of a number of things. I hadn't exactly learned to check my male privilege back then. I mean, just to make an example, if Mrs. Doubtfire (and I'm so mortified about misspelling the name every time in my last post) is a film with strong but underrated sexism, then the '90s comedy that is truly homophobic and most strongly and specifically transphobic would be Ace Ventura: Pet Detective. Not to get off topic by talking about films by other comedians obviously suffering from mental illness, but anyway. The entire plot of that film is deeply rooted in a hatred and fear of anything non-hetero. The whole thing plays so, so differently today than when I was 8 and watched it, totally ignorant of the horrorshow in front of me.
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Aug 21, 2014 07:01
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who gives a poo poo (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 21, 2014 07:16
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kaworu posted:I mean, just to make an example, if Mrs. Doubtfire (and I'm so mortified about misspelling the name every time in my last post) is a film with strong but underrated sexism, then the '90s comedy that is truly homophobic and most strongly and specifically transphobic would be Ace Ventura: Pet Detective. Not to get off topic by talking about films by other comedians obviously suffering from mental illness, but anyway. The entire plot of that film is deeply rooted in a hatred and fear of anything non-hetero. The whole thing plays so, so differently today than when I was 8 and watched it, totally ignorant of the horrorshow in front of me. I probably should have prefaced my comments by saying that I, like many people, grew up loving the poo poo out of Mrs. Doubtfire. It's hilarious. And what you bring up is valid, too. Even though the film is rather overtly sexist, ultimately the stated objective of the film is that, "Just because your parents got divorced doesn't mean they don't love you," and also, to a lesser extent, "Divorced families are not 'broken' families, and family is in your heart and actions, not in any single set standard." But that's the thing, the problem of the film isn't that it's egregiously bad. Like most mediocre movies, its mundane qualities and sentimentalism subsume its social and domestic rhetoric in an inoffensive and non-threatening form. The film is the real world analogue of Mrs. Doubtfire, and is named after her. All of Robin Williams' actions in the film would clearly be evidence of a personality disorder, but because he literally becomes a woman - Williams' performance is that good - this comes off as merely 'eccentric.' In its own small way, the film does tap into one cultural anxiety that is equally important to address: That there is a prejudice against the idea of a man expressing deeply intimate and even 'maternal' love for children, while we're okay with a completely strange woman who is old (and, thus, sexually non-threatening) acting in the same way. Socially, we want the Williams of the world to repress their femininity and accept emotional isolation. The problem is that the movie couches the criticism of these social prejudices in the typical men's rights argument, which is that men are 'forced' to be feminized by the socialization/masculinization of women. Personally, I think Williams the actor was more interested in the former critique of social prejudice than in the non-explicit demonization of women, which is why the film holds up at least as a point of nostalgia. We are introduced to Williams as he resists the pressure of his bosses to glorify smoking - rejecting the masculine social sphere - and, thus, we realistically get the impression that he actually is something of an 'old maid.' We can imagine him being that kid growing up who always used to warn his friends not to get in trouble, to which they'd rejoined "Thanks, grandma."
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Aug 21, 2014 07:35
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Here's my analysis for Mrs. Doubtfire: the mom is an rear end in a top hat who divorced him and took Robin's kids away from him all because he gave one of his kids an awesome birthday party 
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Aug 21, 2014 13:00
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Robin Williams in drag = Tom Hanks in drag = Lack Lemmon in drag = Alec Guinness in drag = Bugs Bunny in drag = The Three Stooges in drag. It's a comedic meme, so to speak, and Robin was carrying on the fine tradition of comedic actors (yes, Alec Guinness was a comedic actor early in his career) doing the drag thing.
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Aug 21, 2014 15:45
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monster on a stick posted:Robin Williams in drag = Tom Hanks in drag = Lack Lemmon in drag = Alec Guinness in drag = Bugs Bunny in drag = The Three Stooges in drag. It's a comedic meme, so to speak, and Robin was carrying on the fine tradition of comedic actors (yes, Alec Guinness was a comedic actor early in his career) doing the drag thing. He already did it long before Doubtfire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlOUZ3OAX60&t=4480s
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Aug 21, 2014 19:42
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Timeless Appeal posted:There actually is a scene early in Ms. Doubtfire where Williams's character pretends to be other prospective nannies over the phone to Sally Field. They're all awful and the intent is to make Ms. Doubtfire the clear and only choice. One of the fake nannies mentions that she doesn't work with boys since she used to be a boy and Sally Field slams the phone down in disgust. So, while Ms. Doubtfire as a character may not be transphobic, there is at least one clear transphobic scene in the movie. Who gives a poo poo
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Aug 24, 2014 15:20
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He was a good man with a firm handshake. Never saw any of his films but I enjoyed his company. RIP.
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Aug 24, 2014 18:54
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Cole posted:Who gives a poo poo I am quoting this post, because I wanted to say that I agree with it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 24, 2014 20:38
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Cole posted:Who gives a poo poo Alejandro Sanchez posted:I am quoting this post, because I wanted to say that I agree with it. Congratulations. You've both mistaken the RIP Robin Williams thread for one where we don't discuss Robin Williams and his artistic/cultural legacy. Mrs. Doubtfire sucks. Robin Williams is great. Oh my God, the thread, look, it's ruined, ruined!
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Aug 24, 2014 20:44
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K. Waste posted:Congratulations. You've both mistaken the RIP Robin Williams thread for one where we don't discuss Robin Williams and his artistic/cultural legacy. You're talking about tranny rights and hurt feelings and who gives a poo poo? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 25, 2014 14:35
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Cole posted:tranny rights You're not in GBS any more, FYI.
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Aug 25, 2014 15:06
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Cole posted:You're talking about tranny rights and hurt feelings and who gives a poo poo? I'm actually not talking about either of those things. Thanks for tipping me off that you're also functionally illiterate.
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Aug 25, 2014 16:01
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