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Supporting the rumor and talk about how the looters were not actually from Ferguson, http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...6d73dd08a1.html 2 have Ferguson addresses, the other 7 are from places like Berkley.
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Aug 13, 2014 01:37
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Radbot posted:Can we talk about the second shooting instead of replying to some idiot? All I know about it is quote:At about 1 a.m., a St. Louis County Police officer shot and critically wounded a man who police said pointed a handgun at the officer near the intersection of West Florissant and Chambers Road.
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Aug 13, 2014 13:45
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SedanChair posted:And there's absolutely no reason to believe the police account. Remember what the early press communications were about Brown? What exactly is Al Sharpton doing here? Is he bringing national attention to otherwise ignored events? No. Is he filling an unfilled role in organizing protests? No. The community is fully capable of action, why does a New York celebrity need to show up?
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Aug 13, 2014 14:14
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SedanChair posted:Generally protest movements benefit from celebrities, "New York" or otherwise, showing up. Is there any particular reason this protest is different? Please explain the benefits. This isn't Trayvon Martin where the murder got swept under the rug until people campaigned for national media attention. National media was paying attention, the riots got that. Protests and vigils were already being organized by strong, capable, local leaders. Strong communities can use their own voices and this is a strong community. We don't need a savior to fly in to show the locals how to protest and speak. Community issues are best voiced by members of the community, not by people who couldn't have located the community on a map one week ago.
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Aug 13, 2014 14:34
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SedanChair posted:That's stupid, why is that any different from Mark Ruffalo going to Detroit? There's no point at which publicity is "enough." There's no reason for this to remain a local issue. And Ferguson leaders don't have enough experience in organizing a campaign with national attention. How could they? Gee I don't know, how could the leaders of a majority black town surrounded by many other majority black towns including a large city which has had racial issues for many decades have any idea how to do community organizing and address racial issues? It's a mystery to me!
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Aug 13, 2014 14:45
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Obdicut posted:Well, the government of the town is overwhelmingly white, despite a majority of black citizenry. So local leaders have definitely not been effective in, say, getting a representative number of black people elected to office. I feel that the harm is that the spotlight will shift from the authentic voices of leaders like Antonio French to the appearances of Al Sharpton who is incapable of voicing community concerns in anything but generic terms. The St. Louis NAACP is composed of community members who can lean on the support of the national organization. Jesse Jackson has commented, eloquently as usual, without drawing the spotlight to himself. Those are correct ways to support community activism. Stultus Maximus fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 15:06
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SedanChair posted:Are we supposed to respect those people or take their views into account? Matter of opinion I guess. I've always enjoyed Jackson's speeches and that column was written addressing specific characteristics of North County and using that to speak to larger issues for a national audience. Sharpton's speech seemed more generic to me. But that's my perception and I won't argue that you have to agree with it.  Look, it's my view that solutions to community problems can only come from leadership and solidarity within that community, addressing the specific causes and needs that the community has. The voices have to be authentic. The solutions have to be organic to the community. I don't have a problem with national involvement but it can only properly function as support, not as leadership. I think Sharpton takes on too much of a leadership role when he shows up and it takes the focus away from the local leaders and the work that they have already been doing.
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Aug 13, 2014 15:46
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Obdicut posted:I'm not sure what any of this means, or why you're presenting it as though it's automatically true. Most solutions to racial injustice in the US have come about through court decisions at the state or federal level, not arising through organic community solutions. Al Sharpton has been a civil rights leader/agitator whatever for his whole life: I don't get how he's not 'authentic'. The issues experienced in this community are experienced, broadly, by the black community, of which Sharpton is a part. No, I am not saying that the problem is "whacko police force." The problem is that the effects of the recession on working- and middle-class black communities of north St Louis county have been ignored by the mostly white county government and rising crime is being met with racist all-white police forces instead of effective community-oriented policing which further exacerbates the economic problems. While these problems are mirrored in many communities throughout America, they have to be solved at the local level. As I said before, national solidarity can provide support but local solutions have to come from local voices. Sharpton's voice is "authentic" as a black man talking about civil rights but not as a Ferguson resident who is living in a specific local racial, economic, and political dynamic. Effective change comes from community grass roots.
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Aug 13, 2014 16:07
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Neo Duckberg posted:Yes it is a mess of personal kingdoms. Nobody wants to come together and make poo poo like a single government for the county and the city, which would make more sense. We have the "most dangerous city in America," less than 10 miles from one of the most expensive zip codes in America. The latter is one of the causes of the former. I remember when they were trying to run Metrolink farther west and south and there were actually letters to the paper complaining that this would let the black people come from the city and steal their TVs and take them back on the light rail. Chesterfield wants to secede from the county because FYGM. Add to this the communities that aren't doing so well but are run by corrupt politicians who don't want to lose their graft game and it's going to stay a mess for a while.
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Aug 13, 2014 21:40
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Magres posted:Cross-posted from the USPol thread: Pretty sure that's been established as fake. Also, Clayton is not anywhere near Ferguson.
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Aug 13, 2014 23:40
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Pretty sure that's an LRAD device on the right in this image: The latter. They're putting it in terms of "polite good citizens will end before dark"
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Aug 14, 2014 00:14
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Seriously, what the gently caress is this. Oh hey St. Charles SWAT. I'm guessing they were sent down with the explicit mission to keep ensuring that no blacks escape to St. Charles.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:28
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Funny how the Oath Keepers haven't come to Ferguson. They don't even want to leave JeffCo.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:40
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D_I posted:The sun is going down, will the protestors disperse? If not will the police force them to? The police will not arrest them for curfew violation but they will force them to based on whatever justification they used for lobbing tear gas at people standing in their own yards earlier this week.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:53
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Aug 14, 2014 02:32
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Naet posted:The typo in that tweet might as well be intentional. Uuuh 
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Aug 14, 2014 02:34
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 Oh Rupert
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Aug 14, 2014 02:40
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Nonsense posted:Some twitter person is claiming it's just a guy on his feed who got hosed up. Alex Jones is streaming events. Oh jeez. The comments on infowars are evenly split between "kill all thug cops violating peaceful protests" and "kill all thug chimps chimping out savages"
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Aug 14, 2014 02:50
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Zeitgueist posted:I'm literally watching Alex Jones's ustream as Fergeson police do what the LAPD/NYPD has been doing to protests for years now To be accurate, Ferguson doesn't have the equipment or manning for this. It's been County Brown's show for a while now.
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Aug 14, 2014 03:07
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poo poo, I wouldn't be surprised if this escalates into barricades tomorrow.
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Aug 14, 2014 03:11
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Rollofthedice posted:There's gonna be a ton of negative press over this, this is too well-recorded and insane and big to go unnoticed. Whether anything's done about it in the long run is a different story entirely. Probably nothing, knowing the US' history with this stuff Fascists are already talking about how they had to do it because a bottle was thrown.
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Aug 14, 2014 03:21
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axeil posted:Well at least his ambitions for national office are now dead right? Still better than Roy Blunt.
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Aug 14, 2014 03:50
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Cesar Cedeno posted:Looks like a loving war zone. I've never even heard of Ferguson before this poo poo, why does some random town I've never hear of before have it's own loving army*? This is County PD, Ferguson doesn't have this level of equipment.
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Aug 14, 2014 03:55
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showbiz_liz posted:The impression I'm getting, basically, is that these cops have no idea what they are doing and no plan. What a colossal fuckup. Ordering reporters to turn off their cameras and then gassing them? Yeah, that is a special kind of incompetence. There is literally nothing more you can do to guarantee national coverage than attack reporters.
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Aug 14, 2014 04:01
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Bobnumerotres posted:Is info wars supposed to be really lovely or what? Let me tell you about how the moon landings were faked and this great video called Loose Change...
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Aug 14, 2014 04:16
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Aug 14, 2014 04:23
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Panzeh posted:American cops retreat faster than the Iraqi Army. *when faced with actual armed opposition.
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Aug 14, 2014 04:24
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Kitfox88 posted:Dude's got balls. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=720_l3dgbYA
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Aug 14, 2014 04:25
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I've seen county, municipality, state, and st charles cops. Has the City stayed out of this because hahaha gently caress you guys we're not touching this can of worms?
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Aug 14, 2014 04:29
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zen death robot posted:City and County are ran very differently and there have been multiple attempts for the City to rejoin county and it gets extreme pushback every time. The pushback comes from all sides on that one. No, I was just wondering because apparently the County invited St. Charles along for some reason. Also, I think Jay Nixon is in the process of handing control of the state to the Tea Party. Good job, jackass.
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Aug 14, 2014 04:38
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My Imaginary GF posted:State's been run by the Tea Party for years. County's been run by Tea Party folks for years. City's run by Democrats. Nixon's veto has been the only thing keeping any check at all on the Tea Party. Nixon's complete absence here will cost him the votes that actually keep him in office.
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Aug 14, 2014 04:43
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My Imaginary GF posted:Nixon had other plans for '16. Okay, keep the governor's seat Democratic. Also nobody but Jay ever thought he had a chance at federal office.
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Aug 14, 2014 04:47
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Radbot posted:Why are racists seemingly unable to understand the difference between state/police violence visited upon black people, and black-on-black or black-on-white crime? There's a big loving difference - one of them we can actually do something about. Oh, they can understand the difference if they want to. Trabisnikof posted:I mean, that's how you deescalate a situation, you treat people like human beings and talk to them face to face. Basically the black cops are doing what the white cops should have been trying in the first place. It's almost as if the black cops see the proper relationship between black communities and law enforcement differently than white. Less adversarial, for some reason. zen death robot posted:For the record the state took control of the St. Louis City PD for years because of problems there, and they only recently got local control of it back from the state. I wouldn't be too shocked if the state didn't take control of the County PD as well after all this mess as part of a longer-term remediation. There's been a lot of problems with how County PD has run things in the past in certain precincts (hint: it's basically the same areas that you're seeing here). From a few pages back, but the state had control of the St Louis Police since the Civil War. The state government had secessionist leanings whereas St. Louis was strongly Unionist (and thanks to the huge influx of German immigrants, vehemently abolitionist). So, the state passed a bill taking control of the St Louis Police to try and get Confederate control of the St Louis Arsenal. St Louis wasn't having any of that and the governor was basically powerless to enforce any secessionist laws but the police order was legally passed and so we didn't get local control back until it was voted in last year.
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Aug 14, 2014 23:27
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chairface posted:Yeah let's see what happens when everyone doesn't go home nicely after dark. Having a police force out who showed sympathy to the protesters during the day and aren't geared up like they're about to enter Fallujah will probably make the after-dark protests a lot calmer.
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Aug 14, 2014 23:51
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Cease to Hope posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's also not all the same police. Highway Patrol and city police (I think city police are involved now?) are there to unfuck this, and don't have any ego on the line to protect how the county police hosed things up. It's not their egos on the line. City police aren't touching this with a ten foot taser.
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Aug 14, 2014 23:59
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Cease to Hope posted:http://instagram.com/p/rsk0_jkQdU/ Can you tell me what they say at the beginning? I can't make it out.
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Aug 15, 2014 00:14
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Spiritus Nox posted:I've been hearing that it's supposed to be a matter of public record and the local cops have been hiding it behind procedure - can anyone confirm that? Because if that's true then it's just a matter of time before it comes out. From the Post-Dispatch: quote:A public cry for the name of the Ferguson police officer who killed Michael Brown is a fresh and uncommonly loud iteration of a recurring debate on the balance between police credibility and a public servant’s safety.
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Aug 15, 2014 00:22
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AngrySpork posted:This. So this It doesn't do the latter and it can do the former. It's not some magic sci-fi device. It's basically just a very efficient loudspeaker that is more compact and can deliver more dBs than traditional speakers so it causes permanent damage if it's not used properly (volume too high at too close a range). The high pitched siren is supposed to be for crowd dispersal but by the book it should only be set at a level that is uncomfortable but below the damage point. It also is used to give directions from greater distances than traditional megaphones. I've been on both ends of one and yes, earplugs and muffs are effective.
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Aug 15, 2014 00:58
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hobbesmaster posted:I'm imagining the governor telling the state troopers to put the highest ranking black cop in the state in charge. Captain Johnson is the commander of Troop C which includes all of the St. Louis metro area (in Missouri) so it's not like they had to go digging for him. It's his area of responsibility already.
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Aug 15, 2014 01:23
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computer parts posted:They think that if you specify "thuggish behavior" it doesn't matter that 90% of the people that fit that description are black. A writer for noted white supremacist journal The National Review recently described a gesture by a 9 year old black boy as "primate territorialism" and then told all the critics "humans are primates. if you thought I meant monkey I guess you're the racist." They don't do this stuff because they think people like us will be fooled. The do it so their audience can convince themselves that they aren't actually racist. Like when Republicans show up at NAACP events it's not to get black votes but to assure their constituents that they aren't actually racist.
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Aug 15, 2014 01:34
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