Crawl 0.15: Terrifying, Ever-Gnashing Radulae

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl 0.15: Terrifying, Ever-Gnashing Radulae

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kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

We hardly had time to come up with dumb thread names at all!

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 05:43

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:33

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Speaking of terrible names I need a better one for the abyss-lovers' tournament team, currently "Wish You Were Here." Other ideas of mine (and so probably bad):
- Schadenfreude the Abyss
- Abysmal Performers
- Schadenfuck the Abyss
- Lurking Horrors
- Infinite Players of the Abyss
- some other stuff I'll edit in and pretend was my idea to look cleverer and accuse other people of stealing

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 06:12

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Definitely hold on to the wand if you're not planning on getting spells castable. At the very least use a charge, but I would hold on to the wand until you found a duplicate...and possibly a scroll of recharging. If you've seen the wand it is half as likely for acquirement to give another.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 07:56

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

I mean, I would totally redeem that for a MYSTERY BOX (ANYTHING could be in there!!), but I'm convinced that that is a poor trade on average.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 08:01

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Nice duplicate amulet of Clarity :smug:

Oh wait it was amulet of the Four Winds on a non-casting minotaur, along with {EV+6 Slay+5} ring? I guess technically you may have won this round of Trove Lottery. I hope you "learn your lesson" and dive the abyss at XL13 next time a D:9 trove asks for the abyssal rune.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 08:19

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Brannock posted:

Decided to play a warmup game this week while waiting for the tournament. Took my Draconian Fighter to two runes and all the way to Elf to pick up some gear. Got Abyssed. Was handling it fine, thought "Hey, why not try for the abyssal rune so I don't have to do Vaults?!" Dove deeper. Deeper. Couldn't find a goddamn vault to save my life, let alone a vault with actually the rune in it. Eventually got worn down and killed by constant loving starcursed masses screaming at me while I'm trying to deal with the rest of the monsters mobbing me.

Truly I am worthy of being in the Abyss Team. My body is ready for the tournament.

Congratulations on your Successful Abyss Visit.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 15:21

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Wolfechu posted:

Not in the team, but: 99 problems but abyss ain't one.

Hey thanks! edit: this also gives us an ENORMOUS alphabetical advantage over the other SA clans (we're #1!)

kaschei fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Aug 28, 2014

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 19:32

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

On that -- Who is the captain?

PanicAtNabisco, but FYI Zippy and Person Dyslexic asked for the 5th and 6th spots in the old thread.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 19:43

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Not the hat of pondering, but I think every other source.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 21:17

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Bardings and boots are melded by statue form! Now you know!

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 21:24

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

amuayse posted:

Since darts are gone, can we add throwing bricks to replace them?

Arfbricks, you mean.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2014 14:32

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Stoat posted:

Team One Weird Randart Discovered by a Mom

MDs hate her!

# ¿ Aug 29, 2014 17:37

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

dis astranagant posted:

A berserker's keyboard?

The 'a' is for pouncing!

# ¿ Aug 29, 2014 18:31

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

I think even when you are familiar with the tiles, it takes a bit longer to process each screen and notice relevant changes.

Overall 3 rune games take about 84 minutes longer for tiles players, 120 minutes if you only look at recent games.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2014 19:51

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

I think this is largely because console players hold the most experience. I feel like I can parse screens equally as quickly, with maybe a small edge going to ASCII earlier before items get identified, because you effectively have dozens of graphics for ' and ! and / while only 'needing' one, until of course, identification icons start making that easier.

Two things:
1. the most prolific tiles 3 rune winner (bmfx) is about 2 hours slower on average than the most prolific 3 rune console winner (78291), counting only 3 rune games. bmfx is faster than the average console player by about 45 minutes per 3 rune game; 78291 is faster by 2 hours 50 minutes.
2. your perception of your own perception is about the shakiest thing there is, and estimating the duration of very short things where you're doing a lot of thinking about other things is a very foggy field indeed.

None of this matters as much as enjoying the game but "there's no reason to play console" is wrong for reasons that are not entirely subjective.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2014 20:24

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Just a reminder that the tourney starts in just at a half-hour, get in IRC you goons!

# ¿ Aug 29, 2014 20:29

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Internet Kraken posted:

I was told it was starting on staurday! Dammit, I need to hurry up and win with this Demonspawn Enchanter so I can get started on my tournament run.

You could play on another server, ya know.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2014 21:48

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

PleasingFungus posted:

I figured it out! It's for one of those bot/human hybrid players. The bot handles all the simple stuff - pouncing, items, moving between floors, choosing which branches to enter, etc. - while the human takes care of the delicate tasks of exploration, attacking, and choosing when to berserk.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 01:29

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Pitch posted:

Why is Slime disqualified from the Ruthless Efficiency banner? How would that be cheesable?

To add a little to what jeffrey said, if you happened to get one of the not-too-rare slime-entry-altar vaults, it would make RE II (reach last level of lair without ~) and RE III (get a rune without ~) basically the same - all you need to do is reach the altar and farm some piety in orc or something.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 07:02

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Humans Among Us posted:

Does TSO suppress my poisonous stinger mutation or is he going to put me in penance every melee aux attack?

You voluntarily choose not to use the poison stinger while following TSO.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 15:56

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

I think divine mutuations can ignore rmut, but I don't know if that includes Zin's divine rmut! And it would only be when xom decides to give you mutations and not when e.g. he decides to give you miscasts that give you mutations.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 16:08

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Mr. Despair posted:

I thought i was going to get a win under 50k this time, but even though the turn counter on the gui said something like ~47800 turns after I won it said I took 51888 turns. What the heck? Am I completely misunderstanding what the counter thing means, cause it seems useless to me now.

Short answer: uncomment "# show game turns" in your rcfile.

The turns relevant for scoring (and the 50k turns banner) are player turns. If you attack three times with the dark maul, that's three player turns. If you attack three times with a quick blade while hasted, that's three player turns.

Since a few versions ago the show_gold_turns counter has defaulted to "game turns", which shows the absolute amount of time since you started your game (other than things like chei's step from time, I guess). More useful if you want to know how long it's taking you to swing your sword, less if you want to know how many turns you have to spare to win under 50k or whatever.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 19:06

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Wolfechu posted:

Am I right in just assuming that TSO's aura has the opposite effect to Dith's, and would wreck any chance of being stealthy?

Everything in TSO halo, except you and maybe other holy stuff? is backlit and both visible and easier to hit, just like being under the effect of corona or fedhas sunlight or glowing due to contam. TSO makes you immune so that you're not easier for other stuff to hit.

Everything in umbra except you (if you follow Dith or Yred and have certain piety level) and profane servitors has a penalty to hit. I think being backlit cancels the umbra and makes you backlit? but I don't know!

I think both things have the quirk of affecting spell accuracy, so TSO is particularly good with rod of inaccuracy.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 23:16

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

I think lightning is the least accurate bolt, to partly account for the fact that lightning bounces and its range doesn't reduce on hit. Fire/cold/draining are all equally accurate as far as I know.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2014 01:21

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Ferrinus posted:

Lightning bolt needs an accuracy bonus against anything in metal armor, or against anything made of metal.

That is not how magic works! It doesn't bounce off of metal walls, though (it grounds out).

# ¿ Aug 31, 2014 01:24

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Brannock posted:

There are much better things you could be doing with that XP investment on a troll.

Yeah, it's like getting haste castable in a three rune when you already have a wand of hasting and half dozen recharge scrolls. It's just not going to help as much as the other stuff you can do with that experience.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2014 01:25

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

dis astranagant posted:

With typical troll stats it saves you about 10 levels of UC.

Is that compensating for the extra 0.2 or so delay also? How much experience does it take to cast blade hands reliably with typical troll stats, and do you want to rely on having that spell up instead of, say, phase shift, which probably saves you about 10 levels of dodging?

# ¿ Aug 31, 2014 01:39

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Mr. Lobe posted:

Don't suppose you found apportation? Does that even work on runes?

It does work on runes.

Jack Trades posted:

I'm not completely sure about what's going on there but if that's an item on a teleport trap you can just step on it and the trap should deactivate so you can walk back and pick it up.
That's a 0.15 change as far as I know.

Tele traps with items on them are usually minivaults where the trap is permanent. I don't know if the random traps generated by level generation can occur on spaces with items on them.

Kekekela posted:

Well, yes, I thought the rune part was pretty obvious. I was pointing out that it wasn't a teleport trap that the rune was sitting on.

I think I can speak for console players in saying that that looks nothing like a rune :colbert:

# ¿ Aug 31, 2014 16:11

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

scalded schlong posted:

I can't believe you all pass up playing Trunk for several weeks in exchange for jpegs. Does bug-fixing go way down during tournament time, incidentally, as everyone's playing the stable builds?

I'm playing 0.15 for a few weeks before going back to 0.14 :colbert:

# ¿ Aug 31, 2014 19:43

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

nucleicmaxid posted:

Pretty much.

(Kaschei come post 4 paragraphs about how it's not ACTUALLY random or bad or really annoying in any way because ~*Reasons*~)

It's random and meaningful randomness is not inherently a bad thing. Random does not mean "completely beyond the player's control" and 99% of distortion events are not completely beyond the player's control.

Crawl is not a series of carefully orchestrated set pieces intended to provide a smooth challenge ramp (or worse, like some games, designed to have a completely flat challenge level where numbers just get bigger at the same scale as other numbers). It is a hodgepodge of mechanics more or less thrown into a blender haphazardly, and it is hoped that occasionally something interesting comes out.

Distortion is a useful tool for making otherwise indistinct encounters more interesting. Other tools like this exist, like every "gimmick" monster's gimmick, and things like centaurs with dispersal arrows. Distortion is not a particularly good mechanic of its type, its principle advantage being its unpredictability (again: not the same as uncontrollability), providing a challenge rather than simply an immediate lethal threat, and the potential to appear almost anywhere in the dungeon, by any weapon-wielding enemy. Its principle disadvantages are that the abyss itself is not quite up to anyone's hopes (I think) and the fact that some tiny percentage of distortion events really are bullshit first-turn-you-see-a-glowing-weapon.

This paragraph exists to fulfill a contractual obligation. Have a nice day.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 06:24

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Carados posted:

I haven't played in awhile. Some questions:

1: Is there anyway to make autoexplore break on finding a down staircase? I swore it used to, but now it doesn't.

2: Is there a way to keep the second weapon set equipped? I hit "'", switch to a blowgun, then when I switch back from my dagger again, I need to equip the blowgun again. (Does that use a turn?)

3: Is it worthwhile for a SpEn to use a noisy brand? Or two, with an Elec/Noisy brand. This RandArt is so good, especially since I'm using the dagger I started with.

1. explore_stop includes "stairs" by default. If you use a custom rc that clears this you can just add the line "explore_stop += stairs" to the bottom of your rcfile.

2. Wielding a weapon takes 0.5 turns. Unwielding only takes 0.3 turns (going from wielding something to empty hands). You can only wield one thing at a time; the ' feature is an interface thing only. So is quivering!

3. "of Electrocution" brand does not make any extra noise. In 0.14 and earlier it made big noise if it went off on something in water but now it now longer does anything special in water, and it never made noise outside water.

Noisy and Enchanting do not mix at all. You could keep the weapon as a swap but adding a 5% chance every turn of waking everything you see up is not good for the stealth business.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 23:02

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

PleasingFungus posted:

Wellll. Technically, electric-branded weapons make significantly more noise when hitting things (whether or not the actual electrical effect activates!), capping out at the same noise as a shout. (All melee attacks make noise, based on the amount of damage done & the type of weapon being used. All melee attacks also have a very, very tiny hunger cost associated. Crawl facts!)

That said, I'm not actually sure how devastating, or the Noisy effect, is. Enchanters generally rely on creating their own opportunities for stabs (through hibernation, confusion, etc), rather than "found" stabs, so I wouldn't think noise would be that bad for them?

Ah, but stabs make no noise at all! I remembered electrocution wasn't bad for stabbers but I guess I was wrong about why.

Apparently noisy brand changed in 0.15 to only happen on attacks so ignore whatever I said; previously I think it made noise semi-randomly when you were wandering around shoutitis-like, which is pretty suicidal on a SpEn.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 23:18

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Deep troll shamans make good enslavement targets as they will might and haste your allies. Not very resilient but potentially a multiplier to your As and Ds. Just try to keep them in the back.

If you have lots of HP, pain mirror is a very expensive way to win any fight.

I think invocations are pretty optional with Yred. Drain life is good enough to repay moderate Invocations investment, but there are other uses for that experience -- like getting charms so that you can haste your minions. If you have a bad Invocations aptitude, I would tend towards that.

MfDK getting a (demon) trident + shield, lots of dodging and castable haste is good. OgDK is actually pretty strong, approaching non-ogre strength levels. Remember to animate basically everything, zombie armour is really good armour. I actually macro p to aa and pretend he is a corpse sacrifice god...

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 02:41

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

That sort of thing almost never happens the first time you enter a level because of the reduced wait on the other side of the stairs. Stair dancing is super effective already, and I can't think of a fix for your scenario that wouldn't make it even more effective.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 03:10

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Dee Ehm posted:

Shouldn't the reference to the Goddess be gender neutral?

Ratri is a Hindu goddess in real life Hindu, possibly there shouldn't be a reference at all? I don't know.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 06:30

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Stoat posted:

I'm a teamcaptain playing on the US server. If I copy my two rc lines over to the Korea server will it work? Do I have to delete them from US?

There's no point! Accounts with the same name are considered the same, whatever server they're on.

quote:

Note: clan membership lines can be added to your 0.15 rcfile on any of the public servers. If you add clan membership lines to more than one rcfile, then the rcfile on the server earliest in the list CSZO, CAO, CBRO, CDO, CKR, CLN will take precedence.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 16:53

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Not My Leg posted:

E: Forgot one thing. How the hell would someone manage to get Ruthless Efficiency III. The only thing I can think of is a melee character who uses nothing but Oka gifts and evocables, otherwise you're bound to put on something lovely and cursed at some point. Even with Oka gifts you could end up putting on something lovely with Contam, but that's not quite as crippling. Also, I guess you just hope that you put on Amulet of rMut before Amulet of Inaccuracy.

I came close with a Ds of Makhleb spamming minor and major destruction. Once I got a wand of teleport I could use greater servant, too, but I tragically pressed buttons in Snake:5 and died.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 18:46

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Angry Diplomat posted:

You could just use decent gear and run around looking for mummies to kill.

You would have to do this before converting to ash.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 20:25

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Saigyouji posted:

IIRC, the chance of finding the rune is 5% (10% for AKs) per item on A:3, 10% (23%) on A:4, and 23% (50%) on A:5.

You need to have at least four stars of piety to get the Lugonu boost.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 22:29

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:33

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

If you can nuke from range and play super duper conservatively you can ~~get mobbed to death by guardian serpents~~ do snake without rPois. You just have to really commit to kiting religiously. (Don't try as a Naga or Cheibro, obviously).

# ¿ Sep 3, 2014 09:18

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