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Bendigeidfran posted:Is this the series with the heroic murder of peaceful protestors for JUSTICE or am I mixing it up with some other terrible fantasy? Yes, but I honestly don't get the vitriolic hate for the concept. Hero: My friend is in THAT TOWER, likely about to be sat on a stake, anus first. Crowd: That sucks. Hero: Imma go save them. Crowd: Yay! Hero: And kill the bad guy, that he might not continue impailing people, anus first, on large wooden stakes. Crowd: Wat. Hero: So, get out of the way. Crowd: No! Violence is wrong! Hero: Well, unprovoked violence certainly is. The violence I'M about to perpetrate, however, is just. Crowd: ALL VIOLENCE IS WRONG! Hero: Look, you're now actively helping this guy torture and kill people. Crowd: PASSIVE RESISTANCE AGAINST THE AGGRESSOR! Hero: No, look. You're not passively resisting anything. You are actively assisting a very bad guy to stakerape people. Crowd: MAKE LOVE NOT WAR Hero: Move, or Imma kill you, then kill the other guy, and save my buddies. Crowd: FLOWER POWER Hero: Ok, then. ORGY OF VIOLENCE Don't get me wrong, there's a fuckton of questionable philosophy, political allegory, and unveiled (not thinly veiled) mockery of the Clintons in this series. But yeah, slaying a crowd of people who are actively keeping you from preventing your buddy from having a wooden stake jammed up his anus is justified.
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Oct 1, 2014 19:00
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PeterWeller posted:Yeah, no need to get upset about a guy clearing a field of straw men. Exactly. Get upset about him abjuring to a hut in the mountains and sulking for a year while a war goes on. Or about the entirety of Faith of the Fallen, which reads more like a guy doing a 90s RPG fetch quest chain.
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Oct 1, 2014 19:47
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Actually, now that I think about it, SoT is what you'd get if Ayn Rand played D&D for a few years, binge-read tvtropes.org, then wrote a fantasy series.
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Oct 1, 2014 19:50
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:I will actually defend S2 of Legend of the Seeker, and I was going to address that between books, but the basic gist is they covered... mmm, roughly this novel's worth of plot, from memory, and then went "Okay, we have a cast of characters who could do SO MANY MORE INTERESTING THINGS". And the actress who played Cara filled out that leather suit REAL NICE.
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Oct 1, 2014 20:06
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Sionak posted:I think it's a gargoyle? All I remember is that the baby-talking monster thing was the point where it just seemed too stupid altogether and I stopped reading. It's a Gar. He kills it's mother, but can't bear to kill the baby, so he kinda raises it. In the short term, it turns into a Saturday morning cartoon style VERY IMPORTANT LESSON about how sometimes you have to do things people don't like for their own good. Later on, it turns out to be the fulfillment of prophesy that isn't quite prophesy as Gratch leads an army of gars at Richard's side. 'Gratch lurrg Ratch-argggg'. When it comes to prophecy in the books, I did kinda like how it was reduced to basic computer programming. But again, the objectivism comes through, as unless you're one of the OVERMEN, prophecy is ultimately meaningless to you. Hmm. Do we need to be spoilering things? Overall plot? Things that happen eight books down the road?
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Oct 2, 2014 15:42
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Look, the first three books, and the last three books are fun reads, if you don't squint too hard. I haven't even bothered with the post-SoT series, I have to admit, but I don't take umbrage to them; he clearly said 'I'm done with THIS storyline; I'm not done with R&K.' The middle four books or whatever, though, get heavy-handed. Oh, and a major multi-book plot point is resolved by somebody comparing some dates.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:09
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If you ever have an antagonist who has, as part of his given, first name, any variant on 'dark,' 'evil,' 'bad,' 'horrible,' 'kill,' etc etc, you're not writing a novel, you're writing a comic book.
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Oct 3, 2014 16:07
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Victorkm posted:They are called a quad because there are 4 of them and they are very specialized assassins. They are specialized for killing Confessors. One of the 4 is there to eat the Confessor's power, turning him into her slave. The other 3 are there for 2 to keep the confessor busy while the third kills the one who became her slave. Then the remaining 3 rape and murder the Confessor. This is possible because Confessors have a cooldown on how often they can use their power. Kahlan's is around 2 hours if I recall correctly. Actually, the logic goes The confessor takes one. That one can usually kill two of the other three. That leaves ones left. Confessors are FUKIN REKT after using their power, so the last guy can finish the job. If the confessor gets lucky, just send out another quad. Which raises the question, why not a pent? Or an oct?
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Oct 6, 2014 14:49
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Robotic Folksinger posted:Is there a reason why just shooting them in the back with a bow when they're not suspecting it wouldn't work? Or using some other ranged weapon? Mainly, I think, the method of killing is sending a message. They're not being killed, they're being horribly raped and murdered by dedicated death squads who fight for the privilege of getting to rape their victims. Might make you think twice before messing with D'hara.
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Oct 6, 2014 16:51
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Plague of Hats posted:There's plenty of rape camp to go around D'hara didn't have the rape camps; that was the Order. But for another in-universe reason, remember that Confessors don't wander the woods alone, generally; they travel with retinues, their dedicated Wizard bodyguards, etc etc. When Kahlen winds up at that castle in the first book, with Richard and Zedd, I'm fairly sure she makes mention of how she's going to instantly be at a disadvantage due to not having a dog and pony show to reinforce her authority, but hopefully having the Seeker of Truth would help make up for it's lack. Also, I can't remember if the wall between D'hara and the Midlands came down before or after he started really going after the Confessors; if the wall was still up, and he was limited in who he could get *into* the Midlands, it would make far more sense to send a group of four burly guys who could handle themselves than a single sniper with a bow.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:51
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so it's kind of dumb to mess around when assassinating magically dangerous pseudo-heads of state. I don't think Goodkind put much more thought into it beyond rapemurder being totally mature and edgy.
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I was once at a book signing by George RR Martin, and he said that the defining characteristic of a fantasy novel, what lands it in the 'fantasy' section rather than the 'literature' section, was the inclusion of a map at the front. I think he was kidding on the square. The thing that really REALLY bugs the poo poo out of me, about almost any series of THIS TYPE, including SoT, or GoT, and so on, is the idea that civilization will happily hum along at a stagnant level for thousands of years. Yes, magic explains some of it, but not all. "Nice sword, Seeker. Riflemen! STAND UP! LOAD! PRESENT! AIM! FIRE! FIRST RANK, TWO STEPS BACK! LOAD! PRESENT! AIM! FIRE! SECOND RANK, TWO STEPS BACK! LOAD! PRESENT! AIM! FIRE!' That said, the magical arms races were nice. Zedd giving a speech to a bunch of nancyboy wizards-in-training and cloistered magic nuns about the realities of warfare was nice. I kinda like the idea of a good righteous anger giving somebody the drive to see unpleasant tasks through. (Just ask Captain Kirk post-transporter accident) Of the SoT being a kinda ombudsman, not beholden to a single ruler. Magical pain dildos? Hmmm. Though I loved how the TV adaptation actually managed to one-up the books; in the books, I don't think ANY Mord-Sith (which is what you get if Tolkeen bought Lucas a few drinks, took him back to his place, slipped him a Quaalude, and went Roman Pulanski on his rear end, AND it's series-appropriate!) ever thought DUAL-WIELDING would be a good idea!
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Oct 7, 2014 14:15
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Stallion Cabana posted:another question about the boxes; Putting them in play invokes certain rules. Richard has great fun trolling some spirits about this. From memory:  Where's the third Box of Orden? We can't tell you. It's against the rules. WTF kind of spirit has rules like this? The Boxes are in play. That sets magic rules. One rules is that we cannot provide any information of the location of the boxes. Ok. Does Darken Rahl have all three boxes? Nope, just two. Aha! You just told me something about the location of the third box; where it's not. .... gently caress you.
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Oct 8, 2014 02:04
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Glazius posted:I can almost buy the Boxes of Orden if they're how the dude sealed all the direct-control and direct-death magic in the world, because you can't just get rid of that poo poo. Nah, they're just what you get if you try to treat a classic AD&D adventure module as something that could actually happen. Those things were full of that kind of 'I'm smarter than you' logic puzzle poo poo.
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Oct 10, 2014 19:40
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Spoilers Below posted:This is basically what people who don't know much about history think happened: "First there were Greece and Rome, then the medieval period, and then the industrial revolution then modern times." And since a lot of ill-thought out fantasy is set in this weird mis-mash of ~1400 years worth of "medieval" history with wildly divergent technologies and societies all existing side by side...
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Oct 11, 2014 00:17
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chiefnewo posted:Jack Ryan definitely fits the Mary Sue mold. Right from the start you get told he is special because he was a military policeman and they get trained to beat up Army Rangers OMG. And any supposed flaws he has don't matter because all the women still want him anyway despite him apparently not being attractive. I've been reading Clancy for decades. Jack Ryan was never an MP. He was a marine who broke his back in a training accident and it never comes up other than a) he knows how to use a pistol, b) a fear of flying, and c) a well ingrained reflex for salutes. The problem with Ryan was that the only promotion left for him was Pope. Now John Clark, that might have been some authorial wish fulfillment.
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Oct 13, 2014 22:58
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:In the morning, a mob arrives to try and kill Zedd, who they keep calling a witch. Kahlan threatens them to no avail because nobody knows dick-all about her powers/profession, Richard nearly kills a man the instant he draws the sword. Zedd then proceeds to own. I figured if you had a problem with this part, you'd have a problem with this SPECIFIC part, knowwhutimsayin? I don't care how good a speaker you are, a crowd of people aren't going to suddenly not be able to feel their dicks with their hands. You can't talk somebody into losing a sense.
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Oct 24, 2014 22:46
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Not going to quote your whole Mud People post, but it's a perfect example of the fact that half the 'drama' in these books come from the characters purposefully withholding information from each other for the sake of drama. 'Ok, Richard, we're going to see the Mud People. You'll find their customs odd. They slap people, upon greeting, as a sign of respect, so don't be surprised.' Was that so hard?
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Nov 7, 2014 15:55
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Plague of Hats posted:I think her "cooldown" time is still given as, like, hours. Which I can believe Goodkind would think is not enough time for a really manly man to finish the job. Because the manliest thing one can do with sex is turn it into an overlong chore. They're only supposed to hump mindslaves so they can compel them to execute male babies.
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Nov 23, 2014 13:08
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:Since from memory we will never see his half of the scene and just have it described by Rahl: know that Giller went out like a goddamn boss. He went all Goku and threw his lifeforce into a final deathblow of "Wizard's Life Fire". It's probably not ruining it to say it didn't work, but still, at least he went whole-assed into that attempt. Then, as you say, he self destructs in an attempt to kill Rahl, but really just to cover her escape. He's pretty much the only "traditional" hero in the whole story. But I still like to think he gave an awesome one liner and flipped Rahl off at the end. "Hey, Rahl. Time to blow this Popsicle stand."
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Nov 23, 2014 13:16
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Perestroika posted:That seems to feed back into the whole objectivist thing about people being either objectively good or evil. Oh, Violet's only a small child who was raised terribly and grew up in the most toxic environment possible? Doesn't matter, she's inherently and irredeemably evil, feel free to kick her in the head a bunch. Obviously, he read LotR, then he read Star Wars, then he decided that he needed magical dominatrixes with magical pain dildos.
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Nov 24, 2014 16:42
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PleasingFungus posted:in fairness, it's been established that there are various ways to get answers from the dead (e.g. the contents of the book), but a dead confessor is no use to anyone. Nah, it just feels like it. Of course, they figure very heavily in the rest of the series, when they become Dominatrixes with magical Pain Dildos FOR JUSTICE! Also, when they all decide to keep up with their calling, in order to help Richard, he never actually says 'Oh, and you know that training system you have? The one where you kidnap beautiful young girls, torture the poo poo out of them till they hit puberty, magical pain dildo rape their mothers to death in front of them, then make them magical pain dildo rape their own fathers to death? Yeah, that whole thing? KNOCK IT OFF. NO MORE NEW MORD SITH.' So I always assumed that, somewhere, while Richard is setting up votes, sulking in the mountains, executing crowds of well-intentioned but idiot pacifists, or whatever, there are small girls being kidnapped and tortured in his name.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:25
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:Princess Violet squeezed her eyes shut, stuck her tongue out far as she could. To be fair, I feel exactly the same way when somebody sticks their tongue out at me with..malice aforethought? You know, specifically to be insulting.
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Nov 24, 2014 22:34
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TheSmilingJackal posted:I agree that it is in character, the stupid bit is that knowing if Dick is think of trees or her is the extent of her telepathy. You know what's easier and faster than torturing information out of someone? Reading their mind. Zedd raised the barriers, and while he's old, he's not ever described as having any sort of extended lifespan. Therefore, Westland was part of the rest of the lands within living memory. Yet so many customs and what not in the Midlands are utterly alien to Westlanders. This makes no sense.
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Nov 25, 2014 17:53
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:I have to duck into work right now, but sure, remind me later. TG never comes right out and says 'Then Deanna stuck it up his rear end, smiling the whole while,' but it makes it pretty clear, never the less.
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Nov 25, 2014 23:05
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Perestroika posted:It kind of pales next to all the Actually, it does kinda make sense, or at least, he retcons it well. And it fits right in with objectivism. Richard is a super-duper 'War Wizard' to whom the laws of magic both don't apply, and perfectly apply, but everybody's been misinterpreting them the whole time. He's also fulfilling prophecy, by ignoring, circumventing, and outright defying prophecy, but that's actually what the prophecy said he'd do, and everybody just misinterprets it. It really helps to realize that this is a post-apocalyptic/after the fall story, and by the standards of the old Wizards, even Zedd would be considered a drooling idiot. Richard is kinda like the Connecticut Yankee in Darken Rahl's Court. Somebody mentioned how did Zedd raise the barriers; same way he does anything else at all impressive and large scale; he found something awesome in the Wizard's Keep and pushed the big red button.
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Nov 26, 2014 14:10
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, but drat this is some lazy-rear end writing. Mord-Sith are completely in control of any kind of magic, including the sword's. However will our brave hero get out of this? Nah nevermind, he breaks free because somethingsomething other side forgeveness. Oh no, Kahlan's power is exhausted and she's up against people with special protection, what now? Ah nevermind, she just pulls some super-duper power out of her rear end that handily nullifies all that. Maybe it's because some of the context/background is missing, but it seems like half the time Goodkind is just handwaving things by the skin of his teeth without ever really bothering about whatever rules he's established.
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Dr.Magnificent posted:Dick's actual super-power is that he is the world's greatest rules lawyer. Its how he overcomes nearly every antagonist in the series. That's an excellent way of putting it. And forever more, I will view Richard Cypher acting exactly as Phoenix Wright, Ace attorney. "I have taken your sword's magic, and there is now NO WAY YOU CAN DO ANYTHING I don't allow." "OBJECTION!"
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Nov 26, 2014 21:29
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Note that it still takes something like three books for Richard to nail Kahlan. And due to ~the rules of magic~ it doesn't count. I'm not sure that they ever bang again past that. Maybe to harness his RIGHTOUS FURY the Seeker has to be blue-balling. Also, OK. Richard is immune to Kahlan's power. But that power doesn't go away. So imagine this. quote:Loretta the maid walked slowly down the hallway, dusting, straightening hanging paintings that were crooked only to her stern gaze. Master Rahl, the Seeker of Truth, was back from one of his many travels, and she wanted everything to be perfect. In other words, every time they bang, her confessor's power is still going to fire.
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Nov 27, 2014 14:10
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Tezzor posted:Hope you enjoyed Zedd and Richard interacting, because it never happens again because it's established that Zedd could unlock all of Richard's powers in like an afternoon so the narrative requires they be hundreds of miles apart at all times And there's that simple "30 second talk, and two whole books are avoided."  Richard my boy, you may not like it, but you're going through Wizard Puberty. You'll get headaches, dietary changes, etc, and you'll die. So sit down for an afternoon and it'll be all fixed. But Zedd, Imma go to Toshi Station to pick up some power converters! I mean, go visit the Mud People with my BAE! Ok, fine. But if those symptoms manifest, you come back and see me right away. AND DON'T WANDER OFF WITH ANY CRAZY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE! You're not my dad!
TheCenturion fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 13:35
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Kwyndig posted:The problem with this is one of first causes, at least in WoT which has a sort of similar thing going on not everyone dies from it so you could postulate how the whole thing started but in this wizards had to have sprung into being fully formed somehow, which is just nonsense considering the noninterventionist behavior of their 'Creator'. Zedd very clearly knows what's happening, and what the consequences are, at the end of WFR. He clearly underestimates how quickly it will progress, however.
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Nov 28, 2014 17:29
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:The real question is why comparatively sane people keep taking her writings to be inspirational. Same reason as any other religion; they tell you that you're special, you're chosen, you're part of an elite group, you're better than everybody else, and you get special privileges/dispensations.
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Nov 28, 2014 19:19
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Plague of Hats posted:I recall that it was set up and specified, but it's been a while. Yup, it was mentioned several times previous.
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Dec 9, 2014 14:26
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Plague of Hats posted:Hooray! I was right! In literature terms, it would be Checkov's Period.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:08
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There are a few things in the SoT series that are just flat-out, irrefutably awesome. Zedd's game is one. Nathan is another. It's awesome how he's just balling around, doing his thing, and then he'll make an offhand comment to somebody, and later on it's revealed that by doing that, he's just closed off a horrible subsection of prophecy. Also, in the SoT world, prophecy is basically HyperCard, or some other flowchart-like programming language. But then he gets back to good old Goodkinisms with things like that sister in training, whom the dark sisters tell 'God gave you those bangin' tits, so go use them to do things. God wouldn't have given you bangin' tits if he didn't want you rubbing them all up on guys to get them to do what you want.' And she says 'OK!' You know, now that I think about it, this book is the one where Goodkin thinks 'Ok, my first book sold. Now I get to put in all the stuff I didn't put into the first book! All the stuff I thought would scare away publishers! You know how subtractive magic is spread? Demon cum! From a big, fishhooked dick! And you gotta get into it! You gotta make that demon WANT to cum! He's like Ron Jeremy, baby, he can gently caress all night without cumming! gently caress YES! And then Goodkin reaches for the lotion bottle and Kleenex.
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Dec 10, 2014 16:21
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TheSmilingJackal posted:While I agree Nathan is a fun character, his existence bothered the poo poo out of me once the I learned the rules of the Rahl linage. Meh, they're pretty clear that any Rahl in a storm will do. As to the Sisters, it's complicated. I kinda liked that. You've got the rank and file, who simply buy the party line that they're doing good, that the boys are all going to die if untrained, etc etc. You've got the higher ups, who know that they're breaking the treaty, that know that they're specifically trying to breed wizards, etc etc. Then you've got the Prelate and Nathan, who know that the whole thing is a 1000-year setup to piss Zedd off and invoke a specific line of prophecy.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:20
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Tezzor posted:I don't think this is true, either. It specifically states later that they take a lot of them away as babies or small children. The "use your gift three times these ways" thing makes absolutely no logical sense. I think the idea is supposed to be that doing the three things has kickstarted his wizard puberty or something. But yeah, nothing that follows in how the Sisters operate follows this logic.
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Dec 10, 2014 21:56
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Shota is the ultimate example of a parent with no authority due to over threatening and never following through.
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Dec 11, 2014 11:27
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:Spoilers (again): it's because it can take up to hundreds of years to be graduated. The Sisters are not the best teachers. Think of how long it takes to teach one how to use his Han.....solo? 
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Dec 11, 2014 12:48
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TheSmilingJackal posted:Actually, Nameless One is what all the Sisters call the Keeper, because calling the true name of a supernatural power will bring it's attention. It isn't an uncommon magic trope. To be fair, Richard explicitly points this out as stupid. 'If he's as powerful as you claim, do you really think pussyfooting around his name is going to prevent him from noticing you?'
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Dec 11, 2014 17:23
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Sotar posted:Yeah I don't get it either. Anyone with subtractive magic can just utterly destroy someone with just additive magic so why the hiding and secrecy? Just take over the drat place. And some idiot with a crossbow can take out a wizard. Steel against steel and all that.
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Dec 11, 2014 22:29
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Libluini posted:This is one thing WoT actually did really well, even the most destructive magic of balesfire can be countered by a very special weave, like itself just the opposite or something. A force of pure creation to negate the pure destruction. Too bad it takes until the very end for the Aes Sedai to learn of this fact. And yet, later on, Zedd has no problem teaching the refugees from the Palace all about using magic in warfare, including counter-acting the other side's magic.
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Dec 11, 2014 22:43
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