|
Leninism- hurr I'm gonna harness capitalist overproduction for the good of the workers without having any to start with. poo poo now I've recreated class conflict and secret police. Lets export this around the world lmao.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 14:27
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 17:09 |
|
Applewhite posted:Marxism-Lenininsm is grabage and its adherents are human garbage. Stalinism was not an aberration but a logical evolution of M-L policies. Thank you Warhammer 40,000 fan for your insights.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 14:35
|
|
Applewhite posted:I don't think you did. I think that, if you had asked them they would have told you that communism is bullshit. Things that own: environmental devastation, beatifying greed, commodifying human relationships, the annihilation of human dignity in the workplace, the inability to turn enough food to eliminate hunger into an actual end to hunger... What doesn't own is trying to change any of this.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 15:18
|
|
Applewhite posted:All those bad things you described apply more to communism than they ever did to any other economic system. No, they don't, and the idea that the USSR treated greed as the highest, purest motivation of humanity is hysterical.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 15:23
|
|
Applewhite posted:Yeah it was really hilarious how the 1% not only STILL controlled the vast majority of the country's material wealth, but ALSO were above the law and had life and death power over the common man. You're a retarded homo, as can be seen from "douchelord" alone.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 15:31
|
|
Applewhite posted:Sorry that me being right about Soviet Russia gets you upset. It was a hellhole country ruled by evil men who decieved their people into giving up everything and gave them nothing in return. The promises of dignity and propserity offered by the communist party were hollow lies and the truth of what I say can be measured in the millions and millions of people who died because of it. How much capital have you accumulated?
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 15:41
|
|
Applewhite posted:Enough to live comfortably and support my family with some left over for savings and investments. I want for nothing and live in a comfortable home. I am free to travel across state and national lines. I am allowed to express myself both artistically and intellectually. It is true that there are many attempts by corporations to entice me into debt, but they are not mandatory and I face no repricussions for turning them down. You don't even know what capital is you dumb bitch. Why should anyone take your midlife crisis thoughts seriously?
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 15:51
|
|
Applewhite posted:Name even one pls. LMAO
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 15:58
|
|
|
All right, lets get serious: Karel Capek had the right idea.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 17:33
|
|
|
Its funny how many defenses of capitalism just boil down to clinical depression with a few words changed.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 18:05
|
|
Applewhite posted:"Communism would work if people would just give it a chance" has been the whiny excuse given by communist apologists for decades. It's like saying "this plane would fly if only it had the proper pilot." There's a reason your lovely plane keeps crashing and it ain't the pilot's fault. It's because it's built the way you think planes should be rather than the way planes actually work. See what I mean? This is basically some guy explaining how he's comfortable sitting in the shower and crying for 3 hours, and also he might get mugged if he goes outside, people get mugged all the time!
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 18:10
|
|
Applewhite posted:lol you're right under communism I wouldn't be crying in the shower because I would have no running water. Now we get to the denial. "Sure, I'm not happy, but I'm comfortable, and that's what matters, right?"
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 18:13
|
|
Omi-Polari posted:not saying state war socialism doesn't build you things. but what we're saying is that capitalism is better. Better at what? At turning human relationships into things you can buy and sell? In exalting greed and tyranny as the greatest behaviors? Applewhite posted:Who said I wasn't happy? Then, of course, we get to the part of the analogy where you lose your job or partner, which is roughly equivalent to the ongoing environmental collapse we've got going on.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 18:22
|
|
Omi-Polari posted:it's called buying and selling things. which is what people do naturally when the government doesn't try to stop them like in a 60s-era concrete box of a country like north korea and cuba. Yeah, under normal conditions of existence, people pay for other people to pretend to like them. This is an absolute. Mhm. And of course, greed is good and the only thing that works as well. Uh-huh.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 19:30
|
|
Applewhite posted:Considering human greed is an impulse that can never be eliminated, it seems more realistic to go with the system that is actually intended to channel the human greed impulse to productive ends (capitalism) rather than the one that pretends it doesn't exist and also breaks irreparably the first time anyone is even slightly greedy (communism). Capitalism doesn't "channel greed to productive ends", it declares that all human behaviors are the result of greed, exalts greed as the only thing that works for doing anything, makes greed the underpinning of society and then everyone thinks that the 2008 financial meltdown was an aberration, people trample other people to death on Black Friday, and real wages stagnate for 40 years.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 19:35
|
|
Omi-Polari posted:like big avatars on internet forums. people pay for those. You have an understanding of history and economics that's about high-school level, since you're pretending that buying and selling are what make up capitalism, rather than being an activity that exists across a broad range of economic systems. Even, like, high-school-level econ teaches the basic story of the rise of industrial capitalism, and while that's inaccurate, it's still better than insisting that Rome was a capitalist economy.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 19:38
|
|
Omi-Polari posted:what i don't get is how commies in these threads always talk about how you can't bring up the USSR and a bunch of other failed communist states, but then on a dime they also praise those states for their amazing achievements until the world ran in the opposite direction as fast as it could. You seriously want a lengthy proposition in the middle of GBS, outlining a grand reconciliation between Marxist, anarchist, and liberal ideas?  But I would suggest reading Karel Capek, for real.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 20:23
|
|
|
It's extremely funny to look at things like Distributism, Karel Capek's opposition to the Czech communists, or the endgame of Galbraith's affleunt society and see how anti-socialist approaches end up developing into alternate means of socialism.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 20:36
|
|
Omi-Polari posted:does it have to be lengthy and grand? how about short and simple? Okay. Socialist (and specifically syndicalist) ideas, without the use of a vast central state and planning apparatus, in the wealthy countries, and the use of dirigisme capitalism and massive foreign aid in the poorer countries. Then transitioning to further decentralization and automation, space travel, etc. over time.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 20:38
|
|
PrinceRandom posted:Lol soviet democracy. there's very little reason to doubt the results except in the baltic republics and to an extent ukraine, where there were boycotts against the referendum
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 20:52
|
|
ThisGuy posted:Yeah the french revolution worked swell It did, actually, unless you think that the Battle of Waterloo just made everybody forget about it until it was safely history.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 21:04
|
|
Agag posted:*nerd peers at ant colony* "Let's model our entire civilization on this." this is actually an own on socialists if you're an entomologist
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 21:04
|
|
|
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to their needs"- an impossibility, and a disgusting one at that.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 21:07
|
|
|
Ants aren't even hierarchical. Queen ants don't give orders or anything, they're just a specialist in reproduction, just like how workers specialize in foraging, tunneling, brood care, etc. There are even ant species which have multiple queens in a colony, like pharaoh ants.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 21:13
|
|
PrinceRandom posted:It's me, I'm the one who believes 97% of Uzbeks voted to stay soviet Why wouldn't they? The USSR brought in all kinds of things, like education and TVs and factories, that they would have a hard time developing on their own, and this is what has happened. Not to mention that staying with the USSR meant staying as the country that beat Hitler. Just because the USSR was brutal doesn't mean it didn't bring any benefits to the member republics.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 21:20
|
|
Applewhite posted:lol the problem with communist thought processes in a nutshell. Look, if you actually believe that hierarchy is inevitable, you should recognize that I am superior to you in every way and you should shut up and start cleaning my shoes, pissant.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 21:25
|
|
Freak Futanari posted:paranoid randroid i made a brand new Freak Futa Comic, just because you wanted it. i will provide what the market desires. Persona 4 is a good example of a communist game, as opposed to its capitalist predecessor, Persona 1.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 21:27
|
|
Freak Futanari posted:agreed, persona 4 is bad. I got the numbers mixed up, actually. Lo siento.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 21:28
|
|
Freak Futanari posted:what does lo siento mean (I am) sorry (about) it. Pillow Clerk posted:Can you elaborate on the bolded portion, please? The USA has enough calculators to give them away for free, enough food to invent Golden Corral, enough industry to have outproduced the entire rest of the world in airplanes 75 years ago... we have the kind of material abundance that Marx envisioned when he talked about the dissolution of the state.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 21:33
|
|
Applewhite posted:Like I said before in a different thread, the strong will always rule over the weak no matter what. Like, literally it's impossible for any state of human affairs to exist where this is not the case. This is clinically retarded and it's something that makes it clear the only thing you know about the USSR is the name. Not to mention that there's no "incentivization". You work, or you die, without socialistic sentimentality like food stamps and welfare. Get to sucking.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 21:38
|
|
Applewhite posted:Sorry, the only USSR I know of was a nightmarish police state where the government was absolute, upward mobility was impossible, poverty was widespread and inescapable and the threat of arbitrary arrest by an unaccountable secret police force dangled over the head of every citizen like the Sword of Damocles. Hmm, fascinating, but you still couldn't just pick up a brick and start beating people to death to get on top. They had secret and regular police to stop you from doing that. Nor was "upward mobility" impossible.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 21:57
|
|
Applewhite posted:I guess there is one monopoly a communist system can support: a monopoly on violence. Are you, for real, retarded? This is one of the basic elements of the Soviet model of socialism you're misunderstanding here.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 22:02
|
|
Applewhite posted:Yeah I seem to have gotten a little off the rails there. Lemme think on this one. And yet you're not a socialist.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 22:05
|
|
|
Agag is violating the principles of democratic centralism, is a counter-revolutionary, reactionary, and a decadent. You're sentenced to read the megathreads still in GBS for the next two weeks, bucko.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 22:09
|
|
Tsinava posted:you're not really debating though you're just tossing out platitudes like "if the free market desires the exploitation of poors, then the exploitation of poors is inherently moral." and then you simply defend them with more platitudes like "people who are more capable than others will find themselves oppressed under such an ideology". you offer no historical facts or anything. you're just pontificating about human nature. Looks like we've got another counter-revolutionary here. Two weeks reading megathreads for you as well.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 22:11
|
|
Tsinava posted:no...please...don't All right, you can take that, or we can give you a week reading Let's Play.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 22:13
|
|
Oberleutnant posted:bitch who made u party leader Out of order. Wait your turn, comrade Oberleutnant. Next on the agenda: sock production.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 22:17
|
|
Applewhite posted:There are too many rags-to-riches stories in the US for me to take claims like that seriously. Cinderella was set in France, actually.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 22:24
|
|
|
Getting back on topic, we have fifty requests from local soviets asking for "anime stockings", in both men's and women's sizes. Colors not specified. Who wants to handle this one?
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 22:25
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 17:09 |
|
Oberleutnant posted:Extremely literal followers of the commie manifesto might argue that private charity is indefensible as it helps support the worst excesses of capitalism (by mitigating the poverty in which it leaves people) while doing nothing whatever to check or curb those excesses. Reformists would probably argue otherwise? I've been alluding to him for a while but Karel Capek's central opposition to communist parties was because of that sort of sentiment, so it was a thing for a long time. Still is today in some quarters.
|
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2014 22:27
|
|