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i didn't think i was the only one to exist, but that question wasn't the forefront on my mind. i wanted to know why i existed at all as a child. my question was "why do i see out of my own eyes and not someone else's"? i still haven't gotten that question answered but it seems less important now.
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Oct 19, 2014 19:11
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Applewhite posted:How do you know you're not seeing out of someone else's eyes? ya maybe my premise was wrong. maybe the whole issue is that i am seeing out of someone else's eyes.
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Oct 19, 2014 19:55
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Cardiovorax posted:This sort of question is what convinces me that the entire philosophical branches of metaphysics and ontology are basically completely pointless. Any time you really come up with an interesting question, it turns out that it's fundamentally unknowabley. Philosophers ought to just quit their jobs and become engineers or something. Only philosopher I really listen to is Wittgenstein. He says those kinds of questions are only misunderstandings created by unexamined use of language and I believe that.
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Oct 19, 2014 19:57
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Cardiovorax posted:I don't. I think Quine did everything Wittgenstein did except better, but that's just me. I never got the sense that Quine ever had a burning desire for the truth like Wittgenstein did, he just wanted a career in philosophy, tenure at Harvard and an autobiography and everything. I read his autobiography, he led a boring life but he seemed to think it was worth writing about. Wittgenstein did way more poo poo because he actually had passion (and torment) and that is rare. Well maybe not the torment part. But the two combined.
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Oct 19, 2014 20:40
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Cardiovorax posted:What's that got to do with anything, though? They're philosophers, not rock musicians. It doesn't matter how boring their lives were, only who got it right in the end. Do you actually believe this..first of all, Wittgenstein's entire approach was based in knowing you can never "get it right in the end", philosophy was a constant process, like using a machete to cut down the constant encroach of jungle kudzu. There was nothing to get right except the initial perspective. Secondly, I think finding someone who spent their life and even sacrificed for the truth is worthy and noble and even necessary. Thirdly I admire Wittgenstein, and I think of Quine as just another paper pusher. I see a stark difference between the two. I don't see philosophy or any endeavor as some blind computational dry thing to do without considering why or what for.
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Oct 19, 2014 20:50
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Cardiovorax posted:Passion makes for great productions, but paper pushers are the ones that actually get stuff done. If Wittgenstein really thought there was no right answer to find, then he was either stupider than I thought or actively wasting his time on something he believed was fruitless. But that's just me. I always thought that the romanticized approach to philosophy was very self-indulgent and childish. You are not understanding what I am saying about Wittgenstein and being antagonistic and trivial while doing so. Why should anyone talk with you on this subject. Most of what I see you post on this forum is similar. Why should I meet you at your level. I could respond and say "no, it's not true because of this and this" but I will get poo poo in return. This flippant poo poo. Of course philosophy matters but you don't seem to see the first thing about it, you actually have to want to understand something for yourself, not to "get stuff done". Get stuff done for what? For what purpose? Contributing to an abstract society that you never actually see? Or do you do it for you, and take others along if you can or want to. That's what Wittgenstein was about. He actually wanted to know what was going on. He spent his life doing it. He was consumed by it. This trivial poo poo you're on is grating to be honest.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:25
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What does it matter if you do philosophy if it doesn't affect your life? Or more to the point, consume it? I have never had any clue how these people who are trying "to get stuff done" philosophically, what they are doing. It makes absolutely no sense to me.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:28
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Narciss posted:*nod* Oh I wasn't talking about my question anymore. Was talking about Wittgenstein's approach and how it is so quickly misunderstood. Philosophy is a constant process..confusion creeps up on you. It is not building towards anything. And problems arise when you think you are. Towards some philosophical theory of everything. He saw it in the later part of his life as "tidying up a room" and nothing more. Narciss posted:If you want to ask meaningless questions like "whats the meaning of life" and then sit around tapping your foot with your hand on your chin for 40 years that's fine, just don't try and pretend it's going to benefit anyone. I agree with you and I never ever said that in this thread. That has nothing to do with Wittgenstein either. He saw those questions as philosophically meaningless. All philosophical questions stem from some confusion (within language) or another.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:31
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Cardiovorax posted:It's really your own fault for expecting a deep and meaningful discussion on philosophy in GBS. I'm killing time and you're easy to gently caress with, get over yourself. You're not loving with me...you never ironipost that I can see. You actually believe what you say and are wielding it like a blunt cudgel. And I'm not expecting further conversation, I am only responding to what I see. If it stops it stops.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:35
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Apparently I'm having a bad day. Anyway Nietszche also led a boring life but he was great in his mind, and on paper. He's someone who really wanted to live, whether that is a meaningful thing to say or not, we're all living.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:39
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Wasn't even responding to the content as much as the tone, Cardiovorax.. Why should anyone try to have a conversation with a pissy child. If you're not trying to talk about it, why post? Saying the first tactless and thoughtless poo poo that comes to mind and expecting someone to ride it through cause you're just ~*so worth it*~? Get over yourself, actually.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:44
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Actually I should have been more fair to Quine above but I don't even see how. He was an academic niche philosopher. He and Wittgenstein are not even in the same realm. Like they're not even doing the same thing, Quine is just following in one part of Wittgenstein's footsteps (analytic linguistic philosophy), but ignoring what actually drove Wittgenstein (a religious sentiment if anything).
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Oct 19, 2014 21:48
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Cardiovorax posted:Oh, I do. Well congratulations.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:56
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nomadologique posted:he took one for the team by wrestling with the horrible venomous snake of resentment and, in killing it, was killed by it; the life-affirmation he constantly sung about was not for him but for the future, his tiny experiences of it were the exhilirating and painfully joyous gasps of air a drowning person gets while being slowly exhausted and finally pulled under I like this
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Oct 19, 2014 22:25
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nomadologique posted:yeah but you shouldn't since his work is not superficially systematic and is very personal, which disqualifies it as "philosophy," also he spits whenever he says "logic" and keeps eating the cake of "truth" even though he knows it goes straight to his rear end Fine by me, he was a polemicist and that's what matters to me.
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Oct 19, 2014 22:31
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nomadologique posted:you are funny because one never knows when you will take something either seriously or as a joke Ya i don't know either. Or maybe its the fresh air cause im out of the house now. I recommend long walks to anyone. No ones too busy to walk
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Oct 19, 2014 22:36
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nomadologique posted:ugh i hate having to take the mask off I didn't notice this at all, i thought you were being real dog. And besides i know youre a reasonable poster and dont say "nuh uh its u" at first blanche.
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Oct 19, 2014 22:38
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nomadologique posted:or rather i should revise that stance: Yes this
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Oct 19, 2014 22:40
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Cardiovorax posted:Do you believe human sensory experience is actually extensive enough to derive much of anything of value from it? That's seriously provincialist. Man what are you actually saying, spit it out instead of playing the onelining goon.
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Oct 20, 2014 00:29
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I can play too: ever think that maybe it's your sensory experience that is shallow and imperceptive? And that can change?
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Oct 20, 2014 00:30
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Yes quine's position is in the end philosophy boils down to science. Great. What does that have to do with you? No self/world inquiry is possible? Accept the word of your masters? What.
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Oct 20, 2014 00:34
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Cardiovorax posted:Why would I ever want to do that? Because you're treading the line between detached ironic commentary and sincere stance/analysis without committing to either one in a way that is interesting enough to read. Is this a new form of highbrow white noise? Do you like being a putz
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Oct 20, 2014 00:37
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This topic is personally important to me and i hate seeing it treated so trivially with buffoonish posts i guess. You can't troll me dude, i'll keep responding till its not fun for you anymore if you don't mean what you say.
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Oct 20, 2014 00:39
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Cardiovorax posted:I would comment on the fact that you still really seem to like talking to me for some reason, but I'm not that gay. Ok, then what would you say after that?
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Oct 20, 2014 00:44
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Say something. Take a leap. Put yourself out there. So far you've got (barely) rhetorical questions insinuating knowledge and perspective. Ive seen that since forever on these forums and it gets old and has to be called out where its seen. Its lazy and inhuman.
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Oct 20, 2014 00:47
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Cardiovorax posted:You're dumb. Also, you romanticize tree-monkey brain chemistry as if passion actually meant anything except the emotional fortitude to stick with your goals until you get results. I look down on that kind of self-glorification. From what perch do you look down on it from? I also don't know what you mean by that. Where does one get those goals from first of all.
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Oct 20, 2014 00:50
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So why did you respond in the first place, namedropping Quine? He wasn't even relevant. I mentioned Wittgenstein because of what he has to say about existential questions. Quine never cared about existential questions. It was a non-sequitir.
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Oct 20, 2014 00:54
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The answer lies in the removal of the question. That's Wittgenstein's view on philosophical questions. The solution lies in the dissolution of the problem, which is based in misunderstandings. There is no final culmination of a philosophical problem, it was never there.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:04
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Cardiovorax posted:I'll remind you of that statement at some point. You take it upon yourself to try to get peoples goat for cheap laughs or to keep some vacuous feeling of intellectual superiority ("i look down on..") ..you have nothing to get their goat with dude. You have nothing to say only to (almost) imply.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:36
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That's the true void..the void of refusal to stand for anything at all. To assail from an unassailable position that has nothing to offer because it is never articulated. In philosophy and in life. "I have it, but i don't want to say (or think about) what it is". Nietszche was the total antithesis of such a person, and Wittgenstein had something to say about them too in his own way.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:43
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Cardiovorax posted:I'm not sure how comfortable I feel with your preoccupation with goats. Not that I'd (almost) imply anything. Say a word once and it's a preoccupation? Or would you rather talk about loving animals in this thread, i can't tell. Was you who introduced the sexual connotation. Cardiovorax posted:Hail Sithis. Also, has anybody ever told you how unbearably pompous you are? That was the most pretentious attempt at sounding profound I've seen in ages. I can add fart sounds if you want? What was profound about that? It's just true. Criticize and you've got to offer something in place of it. Otherwise you're more rabble saying "nuh uh"
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Oct 20, 2014 01:50
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Or show contradiction or hypocrisy is another option for those without anything else to offer.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:52
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Quickscope420dad posted:no the true void is the comedy gaschamber This is an omen
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Oct 20, 2014 01:55
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Quickscope420dad posted:I have only ever seen you serious post in this comedy forum I shitpost on reddit too, same name. I dont get it
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Oct 20, 2014 01:58
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Suicide Sam E. posted:Someone is only ever trolled because they allow themselves to be trolled. Thanks for this, useful stuff man
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Oct 20, 2014 13:27
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Here's a good link about Wittgenstein related to the gay bullshit discussion from earlier. Figured I might actually add some kinda content to this thread http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/was-wittgenstein-right/
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Oct 20, 2014 18:02
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culture and value is my favorite
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Oct 20, 2014 18:38
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quote:464. My aim is: to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised nonsense to something that is patent nonsense.
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Oct 20, 2014 19:19
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My snippets from culture and value some of which I used for a paper:quote:Sketch for a Foreword†4
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Oct 20, 2014 19:20
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And from the Blue and Brown books:quote:Philosophy, as we use the word, is a fight against the fascination which forms of expression exert upon us.
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Oct 20, 2014 19:21
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