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The whole dance scene got someone in front of me to ask out loud, "Is this a comedy?" in a really confused tone. I don't think I've ever heard someone do that before, scene ruled.
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Apr 27, 2015 16:35
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Surlaw posted:The whole dance scene got someone in front of me to ask out loud, "Is this a comedy?" in a really confused tone. I don't think I've ever heard someone do that before, scene ruled. The whole thing felt very - for lack of a better term - Korean in its tone. Specifically, it felt like a Bong Joon-ho film in that it had genuinely goofy stuff alongside genuinely intense/horrific stuff... compare this to Memories of Murder, The Host, or Snowpiercer and it will track very similarly.
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Apr 27, 2015 16:48
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Surlaw posted:The whole dance scene got someone in front of me to ask out loud, "Is this a comedy?" in a really confused tone. I don't think I've ever heard someone do that before, scene ruled. watching American Psycho in a theater was a unique experience think our 3 person group were the only ones laughing
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Apr 27, 2015 17:14
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One thing I didn't get- why does Nathan drink so much? I can't remember seeing or thinking of any non-plot device reason for it.
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Apr 27, 2015 18:49
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haveblue posted:One thing I didn't get- why does Nathan drink so much? I can't remember seeing or thinking of any non-plot device reason for it. He's depressed and self-loathing.
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Apr 27, 2015 18:50
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It's a safe bet that living alone without any direct human contact, not to mention the horrible things that happen pre-Ava, would leave Nathan kind of a wreck. I actually really liked that he seemed as stable as he did.
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Apr 27, 2015 18:53
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I figured his overindulgence drinking was a act. He's setting up a situation where Ava will try and manipulate Caleb to help her escape. Having the 'jailor', for lack of a better term, get shitfaced a lot helps things out.
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Apr 27, 2015 18:59
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haveblue posted:One thing I didn't get- why does Nathan drink so much? I can't remember seeing or thinking of any non-plot device reason for it. Yeah I think it was mostly just a plot device. MisterBibs posted:I figured his overindulgence drinking was a act. He's setting up a situation where Ava will try and manipulate Caleb to help her escape. Having the 'jailor', for lack of a better term, get shitfaced a lot helps things out. Nah. He'd see what Caleb had done if that were the case.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:23
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Yeah, you don't pretend to be completely incapacitated for several hours by actually being incapacitated for several hours while your extremely smart and tech-savvy test subjects have the run of the place.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:26
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It tells us that this dude with a cool, zen exterior struggles with demons and is looking for his own form of escape the same as Ava. That's not a Plot Device, it's character.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:29
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Saw this over the weekend, didn't really know much beyond the premise going into it and wow I thought it was great. I had such an unsettling feeling during the whole film and the musical cues and soundtrack definitely played a part in that. Oscar Isaac was great and I really hated/loved his character. Definitely a cool movie.
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Apr 27, 2015 20:02
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haveblue posted:One thing I didn't get- why does Nathan drink so much? I can't remember seeing or thinking of any non-plot device reason for it. I also wondered this, but then it dawned on me: he knows that he's essentially keeping captive (and then murdering) increasingly intelligent and self aware beings
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Apr 27, 2015 20:02
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zenintrude posted:I also wondered this, but then it dawned on me: he knows that he's essentially keeping captive (and then murdering) increasingly intelligent and self aware beings Yes, this. This is why I assumed he drank so much. He's knows he's doing morally wrong things in order to bring about the end result that is required. He knows he's essentially killing consciousnesses even if they might not have the full range of emotions, like empathy or compassion, which is dangerous. He's playing god, but that doesn't mean he likes it. I think that Nathan is actually a good guy with noble intentions, but he has to get his hands dirty. That's rough, so he drinks A LOT. But he also knows when he shouldn't.
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Apr 27, 2015 20:08
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haveblue posted:One thing I didn't get- why does Nathan drink so much? I can't remember seeing or thinking of any non-plot device reason for it. Thinking about it some, I think I get the idea they might have been using. Especially in reference to the flashback video, Nathan has very certain ideas about what he wants his AI to be. He's trying to get them to make art or write and they seem preoccupied with escape or just break down in frustration. i think he goes "what that again" when one of the previous versions asks him about getting out. He makes them female and fully sexual because he thinks the expression of success will be them wanting to gently caress him. But in the movie, we see that the only thing he's got are intelligent AIs who want to escape or lobotomized sex bots who are literally just reflections taking orders. The dance scene is such a great scene because it's funny, it really cements that Kyoko is a robot because she mirrors his silly dancing style perfectly, and it becomes sad because she's a reminder of the frustrated nerd: No girl with a brain wants to gently caress him. None of them will do what he wants. Maybe he's drinking because he's settled on the final version of his vindicating test: will my AI also reject and use this guy so it's not just me? He can't make them do what he wants so he embraces the idea that maybe it's just the way they are. I think the flaw is just that he's thinking with his dick too much and that love is not the goal of his AI no matter how much he wants it to be. I kind of torn about Kyoko. She's got some spark of recognition about what they're talking about but it sort of seems like Ava approached her as just as alien as Caleb when she first sees her. It might be that her lack of sentience rendered her a different species, even just a tool to Ava. In a somewhat seductive way she tells her what to do, which might even be a suggestion of an "awakening" that the singularity might bring about to the existing infrastructure but that's a stretch in the quick moment it happens. But I think the way Ava leaves Kyoko and uses the previous models as a new "suit" means she doesn't seem them as peers in need of "saving" in any sense.
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Apr 27, 2015 20:16
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Kyoko's quick scene where she's shown staring open-mouted at Caleb's self cutting is pretty neat. Kyoko is shown earlier using a knife to cut meat (well, fish) so she knows "Put a knife into meat and it bleeds" and then when she sees Caleb do that to his arm, she is shown in shock realizing "Holy crap, Nathan/Caleb/Humans = meat. Put knife into meat!" which she does, later. The movie emphasizes that moment of realization. There's an old adventure story about a European who goes to Africa and meets some previously secluded tribe, and they think he's a god because of his knowledge and so forth. But then one day he cuts himself shaving and as soon as the ignorant tribe sees that, they realize he's not a god and kill him. I think the movie was referencing that, or at least that idea.
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Apr 27, 2015 21:17
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zenintrude posted:I also wondered this, but then it dawned on me: he knows that he's essentially keeping captive (and then murdering) increasingly intelligent and self aware beings
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Apr 27, 2015 21:32
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Bolocko posted:And not just this, but he recognizes that the final iteration very likely involves his being murdered or "defeated" by one of these beings. At some point an A.I. would be able to out-smart him, and for him it would not end well. Yeah, this comes up in the conversation that happens before he gets completely blackout drunk.
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Apr 27, 2015 21:41
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I know it's been a limited release and only 3 pages but I think it's cool that so far this thread only has good things to say about the movie, overall.
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Apr 27, 2015 22:53
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rear end Catchcum posted:I know it's been a limited release and only 3 pages but I think it's cool that so far this thread only has good things to say about the movie, overall. Garland scripts are generally pretty solid, as long as you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and think before judging them. For example, people criticize Sunshine for its third act which they claim comes out of left field... but I'd argue that it's telegraphed from almost the very beginning of the film: Searle is becoming obsessed in the same ways Pinbacker became obsessed, but his personality and background is able to keep him (relatively) grounded and non-homocidal. I'm sure someone else could probably come up with reasons why The Beach' video game sequence makes perfect sense.
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Apr 27, 2015 23:30
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There was only one technical statement that made me annoyed: "We turned them all on." He should've said "we've been taking random samples from all of them," or something like that. I bet if the writers had tried it, though, someone would've said "The audience won't get that!" and it would be changed anyway. I was also surprised there wasn't a manually-operated EMP "panic button" in Nathan's room.
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Apr 28, 2015 00:50
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eschaton posted:
Oh they more than made up for it with the disco button.  Nathan's got his priorities straight.
strangemusic fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 00:56
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Ignore
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Apr 28, 2015 01:13
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For criticism, it actually really bothers me that he apparently Garland didn't bother to read Turing's paper (or at the very least, the first few pages or so). It was a perfect opportunity to talk about the 'imitation game' as Turing originally laid it out. Because deception is at the heart of the game. It could have fit right in at the part where they discussed the difference in his test. It also feels just a little bit stretched both plot-wise and in some of the long shots. I wouldn't necessarily want to lose some of the beautiful cinematography, but it could still work as an excellent 90-minute TV episode. Kangra fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 04:02
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Re: all the drinking, did anyone notice the brand of beer Nathan and Caleb were drinking? It was Keikaku* brand. *Keikaku means 'plan.'
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Apr 28, 2015 05:29
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reading posted:
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Apr 28, 2015 13:54
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Casimir Radon posted:Uh, I think you're of The Man Who Would Be King. That takes place in Afghanistan. Kafiristan. 
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Apr 28, 2015 14:09
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Wylie posted:Re: all the drinking, did anyone notice the brand of beer Nathan and Caleb were drinking? It was Keikaku* brand. Yikes that's good. I noticed they showed the brand where they might have used generic Movie Suds but didn't make anything of it at the time...
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Apr 28, 2015 19:31
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Kull the Conqueror posted:Kafiristan.
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Apr 28, 2015 22:30
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No lie, before you just replied I was a dumb American who thought Kafiristan was just a place Kipling made up.
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Apr 28, 2015 23:14
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Rurea posted:I had such an unsettling feeling during the whole film and the musical cues and soundtrack definitely played a part in that. Oscar Isaac was great and I really hated/loved his character. Definitely a cool movie. In general, this is one of the most sterile movies I can recall seeing. Aesthetically and otherwise; tons of empty modern spaces and muted, still moments in the sound design. Everything is white and quiet, and slow. And for a movie about the spark of human consciousness, filled with so much implied sexuality, it's a surprisingly passionless and inhuman film overall. Which is intentional, clearly, so it's a successful film. But I can't say I enjoyed it so much as observed it...it felt so inert, as if plot was just a thing that was happening and it only "meant something" in an ideological sense. I was way more invested in what the Statement of the film would be than what happened to any of the characters. Though Oscar Isaac plays an amazing "menacing creep" type. It definitely engages with big AI questions more intelligently than most SciFi films of its kind. Though, I think the Black Mirror episode "Be Right Back" is a better exploration of extremely similar themes (of a Turing test "other minds" dilemma, and of a human character unsure of the reality of their AI partner's affections. Ironically, Domhnall Gleeson is in that one, too.) Her and Chappie are definitely less "hard SciFi" projects, but I admit I liked them more because there was so much humanity in them. Particularly Her...I'm surprised I cared that much about the relationship there, when Caleb and Ava in this left me feeling so cold.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:36
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zenintrude posted:Garland scripts are generally pretty solid, as long as you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and think before judging them. Gotta pop in Sunshine again.
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Apr 29, 2015 02:28
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Terry Grunthouse posted:Yes, this. This is why I assumed he drank so much. He's knows he's doing morally wrong things in order to bring about the end result that is required. He knows he's essentially killing consciousnesses even if they might not have the full range of emotions, like empathy or compassion, which is dangerous. He's playing god, but that doesn't mean he likes it. I think that Nathan is actually a good guy with noble intentions, but he has to get his hands dirty. That's rough, so he drinks A LOT. But he also knows when he shouldn't. AI isn't question of if, it's a question of when. Dude knows he's building what's going to replace humanity and that it could be dangerous as gently caress all, and thinks arrogantly only he alone is skilled and smart enough to do it right. It weighs on his conscience and accidentally creates the scenario he feared most...an unfinished model walking around freely, while other idiots are free to design other things like Ava.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:14
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strangemusic posted:Yikes that's good. I noticed they showed the brand where they might have used generic Movie Suds but didn't make anything of it at the time... Once I noticed it, it occurred to me that if Nathan was drinking to get drunk, he's drinking vodka. If he's chilling with Caleb and talking about Ava and advancing his agenda, he's drinking beer.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:30
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Someone here called the MC a 'Nice Guy' here and man it both pissed me off and got me thinking about the film on just how wrong that is The most vaguely 'Nice Guy' thing he does is help something he may or may not be in love with who may or may not be love with him. He fell in love/attracted to it with it because it manipulated him through flirting, outright lies, and a CEO who purposefully aided it by designing to it to cater to personally to him through his search history both physically and emotionally. gently caress he was even chosen because with both no girlfriend OR family he was more susceptible to the idea of being loved. And that had only partly do with him wanting him to get her out. He need to have a "Good Moral Compass" outside of that. He had to think turning it off and reprogramming it was murder, and that he would want to do something.
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Apr 29, 2015 17:22
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So I'm assuming whatever contest was held was rigged?
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Apr 29, 2015 17:29
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Sierra Nevadan posted:So I'm assuming whatever contest was held was rigged? Nathan all but admits it. It was described as a "company-wide lottery" and you can see the computer-vision effect analyzing him in the opening scene where he's selected.
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Apr 29, 2015 17:34
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NutritiousSnack posted:Someone here called the MC a 'Nice Guy' here and man it both pissed me off and got me thinking about the film on just how wrong that is Of course he's a nice guy - even though on the surface he's acting altruistically, he's quietly possessive and controlling. He helps her not simply because it's the right thing to do, but because he wants a robot girlfriend that's inevitably going to be entirely reliant on his presence. He's not a villain or even an rear end in a top hat, he's just subconsciously misogynist.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:56
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It was really fitting seeing this movie not long after the whole middling 'controversy' of Chris Evans and Jeremy Renner joking that Black Widow is a slut. I'm still toying with the specifics as I write a review, but, basically, one could read this film as not 'really' being about A.I. and instead as being about how idealized female characters are literally manufactured to exploit the sympathies and sexual desires of male audiences, using sexist cliches of victimization and helplessness which are themselves merely expressions of latent structural discrimination, but in fact offer no hope of changing the system. It's not at all un-similar to Under the Skin, though I would argue this film and its protagonist are basically presented as the anti-Scott Pilgrim.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:39
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I agree and that's why I was so happy that it ended the way it did, and I look forward to the inevitable "no, sorry, robots can't represent minority groups" argument once more people see it.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:43
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Also, also - double feature this with last year's excellent The One I Love.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:44
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