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ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Libluini posted:

During the same time, I compose some messages I've convinced myself sounded funny and finally recognize diplomacy may not prevail in this case.

Also, I still haven't gotten smart yet, so I painstakingly recruit forces to deal as much damage to my own forces in battle as possible. On the other hand, most of my provinces are utter poo poo, so I take my time to prepare one giant hammer to smash everything and then walk south to Westeros in the name of snakes.

A hammer which is flammable, on fire, poisonous and also not in the least bit resistant to poison. :v:

something something hoisted by your own retardpetard

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ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Turn 18:



Conjuration 2! Now we can cast summon storm power for real! We got raided! 370 more dead people in my capital! 251 cap unrest! We forgot to PD a province and the AI took it back!





Diablo continues advancing in the north!





Diablo begins advancing in the south!


...


:shepicide: :shepicide: :shepicide:


It's about this point that I begin contemplating how sadly short this LP is going to be.

In happier news, we have a single successful battle this turn.





Also, we get some fire gems





That would be super cool if we had any F access at all.

NO I'M NOT BITTER AT THIS POINT IN THE GAME WHY WOULD YOU ASK SUCH A SILLY QUESTION :emo:

State of the South



There's a big 'ol pink problem that's about to smack straight into Copper Woods. The AI-eaters continue marauding through AIpud's territory, as they're too far away to do any good other than munching on AI territory. I scrape together everything I have in Copper Woods and set it to patrol. It's not much, but hopefully alongside my PD it can hold the line. I imagine Diablo is currently looking for a headshot. Once he's got my fort sieged, I won't have anywhere to recruit, and that'll pretty much sound my death knell.



Unfortunately, "everything I can scrape together" isn't much. I've got this, plus 15 PD. My hope is that the massedd javelins will soften those burning ones up significantly enough for my sidhe to inflict some reasonable casualties. While the chaff is stuck in, my Harab Seraphim should be making it rain death and despair.

Vistauru's highest path is Air, so he'll be casting orb lightning - a low-damage multi-target spell that should inflict some reasonable sustained damage. I'd use thunderstrike, but I get fewer casts with a smaller AoE, so it's less likely that I'll actually do anything useful with it. He's loaded down with A gems, as Orb Lightning is a scaling spell and so I can get some extra mileage out of it.

Dawramaeshi's highest path is Death, so he'll be casting Shadow Blast - a ridiculously mean spell that does tons of damage over a large area with a chance to paralyze any units it hits. Unfortunately, each cast takes a D gem, meaning that it costs 100 fatigue. He's D2, and therefore able to use two D gems per turn, so I give him one extra per cast. That should halve the fatigue, making him able to fire three volleys instead of two.

It should be noted that in the south, Nuclearmonkee and Flame112 are creeping up through AIpud's territory. Further east, Lib's cap has been locked down by Monkee and he's only got one more army left out and about. This is extra worrisome - if I ever manage to throw back Diablo, I'll be extremely weak and Monkee will probably start looking my way for some easy gains.


State of the North





I'm in a bit of an interesting situation here. Diablo could potentially detour and snap up my northern provinces. However, at this point I think he's just going for the kill - he knows that his troops can take mine right now. He also doesn't yet know that I've brought my Sorceresses out, as they're currently hiding. All he knows is that I've got a few more tuatha than last time, alongside my PG. Hopefully he goes for it. I pump some gold into PD and tune up my formations and scripts.



The concept here is pretty simple. Mages all get Air Shields to ensure that they don't get winged by a stray arrow and taken out of the fight prematurely. Once storm is up, everyone casts summon storm power to get that extra bit of spellcasty juice. Then, the skies open up and rain down lightningy justice on the heathens who thought they could beat down my elves and get away with it.


I am so going to die it's going to be great :sun:

ChickenWing fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Dec 4, 2014

How are u
May 19, 2005

by Azathoth
:ohdear:

Will our brave elves triumph in their darkest hour?

Kin33
Jul 3, 2007

Where is your god now?
You should go ai. It's what all the cool kids do.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

How are u posted:

:ohdear:

Will our brave elves triumph in their darkest hour?

Maybe

Turn 19:





Research research research.


Raiders get 190 people this turn - we're up to 288 cap unrest now. Old news. What's exciting is our battles - it looks like Diablo hit Polson Plains AND Copper Woods. Let's see if our best-laid plains went awry.

Battle One: We spy on flame attacking some indies.



Looks like he's begun churning out his national summon, Tengus. I take a quick peek at the battle to see how effective they are. they own hard

Battle Two: POLSON PLAINS THUNDERDOME (get it because there's literally thunder strikes involved :haw:). I'll save the battle report for the end for purposes of ~suspense~.



Two armies enter, one army leaves. The battle for the north begins.



And it goes swimmingly. Thunderstrikes miss by a mile and Storm proves to be a spell of LIES, completely failing to affect the Burning Ones in any way shape or form.



Barbarian PD proves to be of little use. We inflict some minor damage and split up their formations, but I'm not sure how effective that will prove to be. Leves, Tuatha and Sidhe move into position.



Leves get stuck in first. Burning ones object. Vehemently. Leves run like little bitches. GET BACK IN THERE AND DIE YOU FUCKERS :commissar:. Burning ones are yet to take significant casualties, although they're racking up fatigue and damage something awful. Can my Tuatha hold the line?



IT WOULD APPEAR SO :pcgaming: EAT A DICK YOU BURNING BASTARDS



Wait what? WE'RE WINNING WHY ARE YOU RUNNING?! :tizzy:

The mass of casualties taken by my army finally succeeds in forcing a rout, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Luckily, Diablo's remaining units are slow and only pick off a couple of stragglers.



Suspense over. This is a Pyrrhic victory for Diablo - he's lost all combat effectiveness for this force, and has lost 825 gold in cap-only sacreds to my 775 in assorted bullshit. Of course, this may be more than a close loss to me - I've lost just under half of my quality troops and have no ability to recruit anything else from my capital. Hopefully this remainder will be enough to smash him in my counterattack.

Battle Three:



Shut up AI-eaters we don't care about you right now.

Battle Four: I already know I lost this one, as the notification below it shows that we're under siege. Let's hope that we made it a tough sell, at least.



Chaff and Harab Seraphim versus Evil Wrecking Balls of Doom. The question is not if we lost, it's how bad.



Good opening volley. Harabs are already significantly more useful than Nemedian Sorceresses. If you look closely, you can see that two of those Burning Ones are greyed out - they've been paralyzed, keeping them away from combat for that much longer. A cast of orb lightning cuts away further HP.



Worse second volley. I really wish I'd had Alt 1 for aim before this fight. Welp.



Sidhe follow the chaff in. My shadow-blaster is fatigued out now, so we're relying on Orb Lightning and determination to pull through here. Because of the paralysis of that first shadow blast, plus interference from chaff, my Sidhe get a good surround on a couple Burning Ones and take them out quick. Positioning is key.



Speaking of positioning, POSITION YOUR SPELLS ELSEWHERE YOU gently caress. An offscript Thunderstrike hits precisely zero Burning Ones while taking down a chunk of chaff. Why oh why did I not have Aim before this fight? :cripes:



I'm sure nobody saw this coming.



Ugh. UGH. UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH gently caress Burning Ones. Also, while my Noble Commander was retreating, he decided it'd be a great idea to turn my sleeping shadow-blaster Harab into roadkill. THANKS FUCKER :rip:.

So. Uh. We've now got precisely zero recruitment options, a destroyed army that we might be able to kill in the north and a still-effective army besieging us in the south. STILL IN THIS GUYS :shepface:

State of the South



The great thing about having no recruitment options is that I have all this money to spend on other poo poo. You know, like mercenaries. I bid on a group of heavy cavalry that should have the punching power to take on those burning ones - there's only seven of them left, and Lances pack a hell of a wallop. AI-eaters head on home - Gentleman is building a largeish force that could potentially attack Lovendalon next turn and I don't want to lose what few troops I have left to a stupid bump. My retreated Harab flies back behind our lines.

State of the North



Despite the loss we suffered in Polson Plains, we're actually in a halfway respectable position. I know Diablo doesn't currently have the troops to repel me, so I'm going to move both of my small groups of retreat-ees to different provinces to maximize my re-gains. We're still shaky, but I'm confident that I can recover from this.

[Future me: man it just feels so good to know that at this point Diablo wasn't even trying anymore and that, had he less of a conscience, I'd have been totally hellfucked.]

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
Turn 19


Now in this turn I finally started to move my really, really vulnerable hammer of doom to retake my lost provinces and kick those dickbutts something fierce.

My plans for the next few turns were just walking around my cap and then continue to walk south into Dickbuttlandia to give them some stern talking-to.

We'll still a couple of turns away from the point where I started taking this poo poo seriously, so I had to take ChickenWing's screenshot for this turn!

twig1919
Nov 1, 2011
I am an inconsiderate moron whose only method of discourse is idiotic personal attacks.
The raiding on your cap seems so ridiculously broken. There is literally nothing you could do if Diablo decided to just end you and lock down all your forts with raiders. It boggles my mind that a release version of the game ever shipped with flying raiders being so broken.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

twig1919 posted:

The raiding on your cap seems so ridiculously broken. There is literally nothing you could do if Diablo decided to just end you and lock down all your forts with raiders. It boggles my mind that a release version of the game ever shipped with flying raiders being so broken.

I think it mostly stems from the fact that nobody ever really considered non-adjacent raiding until recently. Dominions doesn't exactly have a huge multiplayer playerbase, and a large portion of that existing base is overly concerned with ~e-honore~ and whatnot. It's just a really strange edge case that likely wasn't even considered until we broke it wide open.

Remember, this is Dominions 4, AKA the game with so many ridiculous little interactions that it's a wonder there aren't more balance-obliterating bugs.

Neruz
Jul 23, 2012

A paragon of manliness
I don't think anyone ever really used raiding, I've heard stories of people occasionally using it to nuke someone's cap before attacking it for realsies but I don't think I really believe them. That combined with the fact that there are very few units that can fly and raid meant it flew under the radar for long time before someone finally worked it out.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



There should be 4 conditions/results with raiding:

1. raiding action is detected before actual raiding, and combat ensues
2. raiding action is detected before actual raiding, and raiders get away
3. raiding action is detected after actual raiding, and combat ensues
4. raiding action is detected after actual raiding, and raiders get away

That way the game would have a good gradient between success and failure in raiding actions, with army sizes, type of province, special bonus, flying or land based raiders, etc determining the outcome.

Right now, from what I understand, lots of time flying raiders can be detected if you have enough patrols but after the raiding is done, when it's too late. Patrollers should be able to impede the raiding action, if they are enough. Obviously flying raiders should be good at the getting away part, but if province is defended enough (forts, army on it, patrols) it should be 2) not 4)

Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Dec 5, 2014

Donkringel
Apr 22, 2008

Neruz posted:

I don't think anyone ever really used raiding, I've heard stories of people occasionally using it to nuke someone's cap before attacking it for realsies but I don't think I really believe them. That combined with the fact that there are very few units that can fly and raid meant it flew under the radar for long time before someone finally worked it out.

I used raiding in single player games because I always thought it may be marginally useful. Since I never saw it used in up multiplayer I just assumed I was using a dumb tactic and was dumb.

Meanwhile Ai was probably going "THIS IS SO BROKEN YOU GOD drat JERK THAT'S IT I AM GOING A... gently caress."

But all it could say was "You killed our god!"

Truly a tragedy.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Donkringel posted:

I used raiding in single player games because I always thought it may be marginally useful. Since I never saw it used in up multiplayer I just assumed I was using a dumb tactic and was dumb.

Meanwhile Ai was probably going "THIS IS SO BROKEN YOU GOD drat JERK THAT'S IT I AM GOING A... gently caress."

But all it could say was "You killed our god!"

Truly a tragedy.

You forgot "We declare war on your unholy nation."

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Turn 20:



:aaa: No raiding this turn?! It's not even my birthday! :aaa:



Xanrick casts Mother Oak, a global spell that gives the caster 10N/turn. It's pretty handy for casting more N globals and summoning tons of chaff.



Imagine this but in Polson Plains as well. Diablo is either broke or dying, given that he hasn't bothered to even put token PD in his provinces.

I lost a screenshot, but imagine one here of a battle report showing a bunch of Tuatha sticking a spear through a Sauromancer's stupid face.



We also have a battle on...our cap? Did Diablo seriously think he could take it? poo poo, I'm not complaining. His northern invasion force is completely gone, all for the cost of a few PD that get replaced for free anyways. Remember kids, even your bitchin' sacreds are vulnerable to infinity chaff.



iwanttobelieve.jpg

In event news,



Someone finds the Vale of Infinite Horror. Horrors look at the world and begin salivating. No way am I checking all of my dudes for horror marks, but I'm sure I got one or two. Poor sucker who found the place probably has a whole army full of horror marked bastards.

Horror marks are basically a beacon to the evil nasties on the astral plane that says in big blinking letters "Hello I am a tasty morsel please eat my soul." Any commander with one has a small percent chance per horror mark (yes, they stack) to get randomly attacked by one of any of the horrors every turn. Units aren't vulnerable to this, but they still get the secondary attack of being prioritized by horrors on the battlefield.

Finally, the game lets us know that Diablo's southern Burning Ones are slowly tearing down our walls in Copper Woods, and that we won the bids for both merc companies we bid on last turn. This turn is actually looking up for us!

State of the South



We go for a Hail Mary on Copper Woods. We've got two Harab Seraphs that are going to be thunderstriking and shadow blasting again. The difference is, this time they'll be much closer to the front lines and also buffed with aim AND air shield. We're spending critical turns buffing, but we know that the Burning Ones are scripted to hold and attack which gives us a little wiggle room. Buffs in Dominions are weird to plan out. Most buffs can give you a huge advantage in a fight, but if you spend all your time and fatigue buffing you're not going to be casting anything useful. Alternatively, too little time buffing and you'll get owned by a stray arrow, or you won't be able to hit poo poo. It's a fine line, especially so if you're loving around with communions.

ANYWAYS. Our scripts should result in our big evocations hitting right after our heavy cav hit with their lances. Hopefully, an overwhelming alpha strike will be enough to rout or destroy the 7 Burning Ones that are left. After that, the rest of the army will be cake. Our AI-eating force is returning to our territory through Ligrea. Scouts aren't reporting much in that direction so we should have a clear path home. Note also that Gentleman took Lovendalon this turn. I'm extremely glad I didn't go for it last turn, a bump would have been catastrophic for our weakened forces.

State of the North



We're pushing our advantage while we have it. I don't know what the state of Diablo's recruitment is at the moment, but I do know that he's got both Gentleman and I bearing down on him, and he can only recruit so many Burning Ones a turn. I could return to my capital and attempt to patrol down the unrest, but Diablo could always send his Mariya back - we need to take them out at the source. The Wet Ones I recruited last turn are going to take down the crap indies in White Lake, which should give me another avenue of attack into Belgium.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

I just want to point out that I am continuing to feel extremely dumb looking at my old notes now that Diablo has out and said that he'd given up by that point.


Seriously I'm torn between :cawg: and :cripes:

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
His suicide onto your cap, and you feeling smug about it.

Heh.

How are u
May 19, 2005

by Azathoth
At least that bit of goofiness is done with, now it's fun to guess who you'll be at war with next!

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

ChickenWing posted:

I just want to point out that I am continuing to feel extremely dumb looking at my old notes now that Diablo has out and said that he'd given up by that point.


Seriously I'm torn between :cawg: and :cripes:

According to my first screenshots, I started taking them after I lost Comsath for the last and final time to Nuklearmonkee. So by comparing with your screenshots, we're inching closer to the point where I can finally post myself.

Right now in my turn 20: Nuklearmonkee sits on my cap again. I summon some giant ants. That's about it for this turn.

biosterous
Feb 23, 2013




ChickenWing posted:



iwanttobelieve.jpg

I think I remember there being some significance to the background of this image, but I can't remember what. Is there, or am I talking out my rear end?

HiHo ChiRho
Oct 23, 2010

biosterous posted:

I think I remember there being some significance to the background of this image, but I can't remember what. Is there, or am I talking out my rear end?

iirc, that's the "RNG" dom uses or used.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


biosterous posted:

I think I remember there being some significance to the background of this image, but I can't remember what. Is there, or am I talking out my rear end?

It's a visualization of randomness; seeing a pattern means the RNG is not very random.

Smiling Knight
May 31, 2011

wiegieman posted:

It's a visualization of randomness; seeing a pattern means the RNG is not very random.

I think there was a discussion over whether the die rolls that Dominions uses can "explode" indefinitely or was there a hard cap. By "explode", I mean that if you roll max, you get to roll another die. Theoretically, with enough luck a militia could 1-shot a demon lord.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

wiegieman posted:

It's a visualization of randomness; seeing a pattern means the RNG is not very random.

Exactly this. The Dominions RNG is plaid, i.e. not very random.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Smiling Knight posted:

I think there was a discussion over whether the die rolls that Dominions uses can "explode" indefinitely or was there a hard cap. By "explode", I mean that if you roll max, you get to roll another die. Theoretically, with enough luck a militia could 1-shot a demon lord.

I think the manual said there is a cap, though who knows it's actually good information or not.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Turn 21:



:siren::pcgaming::pcgaming::siren:

Christmas appears to have come early. Generally, a sudden gift of gems and whatnot from a player means that they're about to die. No complaints from me. I guess Diablo was feeling a little guilty.



:rolleyes: Yeah sure buddy, you know you loved it while it lasted.



Okay so it's less "about to die" and more "just got shanked". Rest in piss.

This makes our life ridiculously easy for a little while. We're not currently involved in any wars, meaning that we have some breathing room to rebuild our forces. Plus, those Burning Ones on Copper Woods went poof (as indicated by the "We took the province, nobody was defending it" message.



I'm not sure why we got a fight here but not on Copper Woods, but whatever I'm not complaining. Mairyas die. I like to think that my troops spend the rest of the month stomping on their stupid faces.



Wet Ones invade the ocean. Wet ones are awful, but...



Tritons are worse.



Kitfox pops some AIpud PD. As per the regular, Kitfox is waving about giant mundane stacks with nary a mage in sight. Not that that's a big deal when eating AI, but still. Never change, Kitfox.



Our eaters of AI roast up a turkey for dinner.

All told, battles for this turn are boring clean-up poo poo, and probably will be for the forseeable future until we put together a proper AI-conquering force.

In slightly more exciting news, another Deathmatch is announced! Maybe I'll actually remember to send someone to this one. I wouldn't bet on it though. [Future me: good call past me!]

State of the South



The AI-eaters head home from their whirlwind tour. My heavy cavalry mercs trot towards Golem Range in an attempt to reduce its defenses. I usually try to get mercenaries I buy killed instead of letting them get bought out by anyone else, especially stuff that isn't completely useless like heavy cav.

AIpud is building up largish armies of chaff in its holdings, as the AI is wont to do. Hopefully once we're done licking our wounds we'll have the money and troops to build up some fort-sniping armies before Nuclearmonkee and Flame112 snap everything up. My priest, finally freed from the threat of badguys everywhere, heads out to start some discount temple construction.

State of the North



Our beleaguered armies start the long march home to rest, recuperate, research, and finally patrol out all that bullshit unrest. Once we've tended to the home front, we can finally start sitesearching our territory in earnest and hopefully pick our next target for fighting. After a quick bit of additional consideration, I decide to sitesearch on my way home. I don't know how long my northern holdings will remain peaceful for, so I may as well do what I can now.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
Libuico

Welp, it's turn ??? and this is what is happening while ChickenWing is doing his thing up north from me.



Our income is even shittier now, thanks to rising unrest. Not that it influences anything right now, even with less unrest I wouldn't actually have enough income to recruit anything!

And oh yes, there's that large army sieging my capital. That is also preventing me from recruiting anything. At least I have some mages and my pretender left! (Also a ton of giant fire ants, but they're not relevant right now due to probably not being able to take on an army twice their size all by themselves.)

But wait, something is up in the East? Suddenly, Xanxabar has turned up and taken two of my old provinces away from Westeros? Has my nemesis made a new enemy? Time for some diplomacy!



In-game message and IRC-chat, here we come!



I think now is the time to bring back my sole surviving scout to see what is happening around my cap, since I'm totally blind right now to everything more than a province away. Also wait a moment, there's this weird greenish color down there? A new player and next to Westeros capital! Sounds like another enemy I could make my friend.



More diplomacy!



So the only thing left to do this turn: Looking at my feeble research efforts. My mages can throw some fireballs and summon some small fire elementals. They can also cast a shield made of fire to burn everyone trying to touch them. Let's try to add some more weapons to our empty arsenal!

Libluini fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Dec 10, 2014

How are u
May 19, 2005

by Azathoth
Things looking pretty dire for the snaky people :ohdear:

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?

ChickenWing posted:



Kitfox pops some AIpud PD. As per the regular, Kitfox is waving about giant mundane stacks with nary a mage in sight. Not that that's a big deal when eating AI, but still. Never change, Kitfox.

89 is hardly a giant stack. Go look at my retarded Abattoir strats if you want some Big Stacks :cmon: 1000 harpies does not a good combat force make

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

There's giant and there's "Seriously what the hell why would you even do that"

spoilers: 1000 harpies is the latter

Nuclearmonkee
Jun 10, 2009


ChickenWing posted:

There's giant and there's "Seriously what the hell why would you even do that"

spoilers: 1000 harpies is the latter

With the right mage support (iron bane) it does actually work, though stymphalian birds are waaay better. Even so it gets completely shut down by storm, which I am not casting only because darkness is doing a good enough job by itself.

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?
It's more I own so many caps next to each other I can't get no resources to crank out large stacks of Actual Good Troops. Plus until like 3 turns ago I was just blappin AI forts so harpies were nice siege fodder. Unless they're siege incompetent and it cancels out the flying, which they might be, idk. :downs:

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Kitfox88 posted:

It's more I own so many caps next to each other I can't get no resources to crank out large stacks of Actual Good Troops. Plus until like 3 turns ago I was just blappin AI forts so harpies were nice siege fodder. Unless they're siege incompetent and it cancels out the flying, which they might be, idk. :downs:

Hey, at least you have harpies. About 99% of my armies in Nationdraft are either animals or mindless, which really doesn't help if you want to siege something. I mean seriously, I got one fort with its defenders half-starved and another one was literally empty because the small handfull of defenders starved to death before I finally got the fort sieged down.

jBrereton
May 30, 2013
Grimey Drawer

Libluini posted:

Hey, at least you have harpies. About 99% of my armies in Nationdraft are either animals or mindless, which really doesn't help if you want to siege something.
Animals siege fine; this is like the oldest wrongest myth about Dominions that still exists possibly beyond "enemy luck counts as misfortune", both of which aren't even hard to prove false with a tiny bit of testing or just experience.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

jBrereton posted:

Animals siege fine; this is like the oldest wrongest myth about Dominions that still exists possibly beyond "enemy luck counts as misfortune", both of which aren't even hard to prove false with a tiny bit of testing or just experience.

I stand corrected. So the about 80% mindless units in my armies are the only reason my sieges take so loving long. (In this case, I even looked it up: According to the manual, a mindless unit is only worth 10% of another unit in a siege.

In case of animals, I didn't even knew this was a myth! I just assumed this all by myself, on the logic that wolves and goats are not known to be siege engineers. Or even good at digging trenches.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



I am in fact a bit disappointed that animals siege as good as normal troops. This isn't the Dominions I signed up to!

Boing
Jul 12, 2005

trapped in custom title factory, send help

Libluini posted:

I stand corrected. So the about 80% mindless units in my armies are the only reason my sieges take so loving long. (In this case, I even looked it up: According to the manual, a mindless unit is only worth 10% of another unit in a siege.

You misread. Mindless units are only worth 10% when defending in a siege (they have low repair power), but as far as I can tell there's nothing to suggest that their sieging strength is lower than that of an equivalent unit.

the manual posted:

Reduction strength = unit strength squared / 100
● Flying units get +1

Repair strength = unit strength squared / 100
● Flying units get +1
● Mindless units are only worth 10% of calculated value

Unless the manual (and associated loading screen tip) are wrong, there's probably another reason your sieges are taking so long.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Turn 22:



A pretty quiet turn, and that's pretty much how we'd like it to stay for now. Our first two sitesearches turn up jack squat. Also AIpud prophetizes a Dai Oni.



AIpud also decides that it's mad at us and pops some lovely PD. AI-destroyers will be coming back down soon to enact their revenge.



Kitfox takes down some independents next to our water province. I'd considered going for it this turn, but he had this army in the area and it was his natural next destination. Only you can prevent army bumps. Might have been a good way to get rid of those wet one mercenaries though :v: not that I want to, they're going to be the initial patrollers on our cap.



Annnnnnnd we forgot about the deathmatch AGAIN. God dammit one day I will remember this poo poo. Xanrick's Basalt King wins by default. We probably couldn't have taken him with anything I was willing to send anyways. Alas, alack.

State of the South



Nothing too exciting is going on. I'm sending my heavy cavalry mercenaries at the throne this turn. I don't need to rehire them, so either they'll take the throne and be worth the cost or they'll inflict some decent damage to the throne's defenders, all die, and be worth the cost with the added benefit of being totally useless to anyone else. Win win situations are awesome :buddy:.

Further south, Nuclearmonkee is a stupid idiot fucker and has taken the palisades that I wanted to siege :saddowns:. I'm really going to have to act fast if I want to snag any more of AIpud's territory. Honestly, it's looking like Monkee might be my next target (which is goddamn terrifying. Time to start forming coalitions!). Also the AI killers pick up a straggling Sidhe and return to Copper Woods to rearm.

State of the North



My Nemedian Sorceresses tool about sitesearching while the rest of my forces continue trudging home. My cap is down to 160 unrest, and with the Wet Ones patrolling that might just dip below 100 next turn. It would be super cool and nice to be able to recruit Nemedians again, our research has been tanked lately. More and more I contemplate the benefits of Order 3 - the passive unrest reduction on my cap has been goddamn ridiculous, exceeding what my armies are patrolling themselves in some cases. Never not O3.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Boing posted:

You misread. Mindless units are only worth 10% when defending in a siege (they have low repair power), but as far as I can tell there's nothing to suggest that their sieging strength is lower than that of an equivalent unit.


Unless the manual (and associated loading screen tip) are wrong, there's probably another reason your sieges are taking so long.

I don't know. Why would a mindless unit be better at a siege but worse at defending from a siege? Destroying a wall and rebuilding it isn't that different.

But then again, I always get into trouble by applying logic to Dominions 4.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Building wall takes skill. Punching wall less so.

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?
HULK SMASH PUNY WALL

HULK SKILLFULLY LAY BRICKS AND MORTAR WITH FINESSE OF ARTISAN MASTER AS IS BEFITTING OF ONE TRUE GOD

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Gaghskull
Dec 25, 2010

Bearforce1

Boys! Boys! Boys!

ChickenWing posted:


My Nemedian Sorceresses tool about sitesearching while the rest of my forces continue trudging home. My cap is down to 160 unrest, and with the Wet Ones patrolling that might just dip below 100 next turn. It would be super cool and nice to be able to recruit Nemedians again, our research has been tanked lately. More and more I contemplate the benefits of Order 3 - the passive unrest reduction on my cap has been goddamn ridiculous, exceeding what my armies are patrolling themselves in some cases. Never not O3.

That's bullshit and you know it. The one true build is Turmoil 3/ Luck 3 where you pray for the RNG to give you income/gems. Sometimes you even got +PD which means you sail to Kitfox levels of PD without having to pay anything.

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