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Okay, here's the missions I can call. I'm not entirely happy with any of them. First, an area mission targeted into the woods. Placement is very nice, but delivery time is 6 minutes and I'm afraid by that time the Americans will already be up front by the forest's eastern edge and shooting our guys.  Second, a linear mission drawn from the TRP. Delivery time is nice 3 minutes but I can only hit the edge of the woods and the Americans are likely to choose a deeper path now that they know the edge is targeted by HMGs and tanks.  So it would seem the ideal course of action for me now... would be to do nothing. Just wait where the Americans are going. My original plan was to catch them at the eastern edge of the woods, where the TRP is and where they will be pinned by our fire from the hedges. I think I'll stick to that. Their front platoon has already been shot up pretty well anyway. EDIT: Or... I can call the 6 minute mission and cancel it if need be. How long does it take for artillery to register changes in missions? In other words, how long before the delivery time would I have to cancel or modify it?
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Nov 15, 2014 10:14
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| # ? May 12, 2024 19:27 |
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:First, turn 2's map I thought I posted last night. Didn't see any kills by me but I bet I did a number or at least hosed their morale up. Given the push of the tanks I'm going to focus on Armor for the time being. You should have the upper hand up there for some time. Without looking at the map I think I'll get spots on them as they keep moving, but they might be trying to mass up against me... e: can I get a closer screenshot of my tank? I want to make sure it has a good view. my plan is something like:  (target armor arc)but I want to avoid too much movement since the CM driver AI just wants to give my side armor to a Sherman. markus_cz posted:Second, a linear mission drawn from the TRP. Delivery time is nice 3 minutes but I can only hit the edge of the woods and the Americans are likely to choose a deeper path now that they know the edge is targeted by HMGs and tanks. This mission will probably get some good hits since I'm stopping my fire and they'll be able to advance again, is 3 minutes too short though? I'm not sure if we'll be pulled out of there that fast. apseudonym fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Nov 15, 2014 |
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Nov 15, 2014 10:20
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Jobbo, to play devil's advocate for a moment, in that position, your LOS is very short and very limited. Looking in-game, that position gives you about 190m of visibility down the E-W road and that's about it.  Your objective of stopping the American push in the south is spot on. I complete agree with you that our Panthers need to counter that thrust. Moving the Panthers down south really doesn't play to their strengths. They're more tank destroyer than tank, really good in long-range ambushes, but terrible in knife fights. At 200m, even a Sherman can penetrate your front armor. If you go south, I'm concerned that your tank will get blindsided and swarmed at close range. If you want to cover the south, there are lots of great position that play to your Panther's strengths and give you good coverage of the south and the E-W road.    And your current position actually gives you pretty decent views west. It's also at a crossroads, so you can easily relocate later.  I don't want to step on your toes. I'm being intrusive, feel free to tell me to stfu.
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Nov 15, 2014 11:05
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apseudonym posted:Didn't see any kills by me but I bet I did a number or at least hosed their morale up. Given the push of the tanks I'm going to focus on Armor for the time being. You should have the upper hand up there for some time. Playing around with the map, it looks like you might be able to see those Shermans crawling up the hedgeline. You just need to move up a few meters, like so.  From there, you can make that shot.  e: I'm really confused as to why the Americans moved their tanks into that field. There's only two ways out: the way they came in and the southern exit (which is guarded by infantry and in full view of apseudnoym's Panther). And they really can't see anything from there. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Nov 15, 2014 |
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Nov 15, 2014 11:07
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Phone posting but where can their Sherman's actually go from there? The only exit I see is up by where we were shelling and that'd be suicide. Are they going to blast through a hedge or am I missing a more obvious exit? We don't need to panic reposition, they still need to get out of there without getting murdered by us.
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Nov 15, 2014 11:15
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Bacarruda posted:I don't want to step on your toes. I'm being intrusive, feel free to tell me to stfu. Stfu. No no, seriously though, criticism is appreciated. What's the K/L column look like from 7 on down? Or what about the house at K-10? The way I see it is that those Shermans are lining up to go East or South-East to: A. Avoid contact with our Panthers on overwatch. B. Provide immediate fire support for their infantry being gunned down in that forest. Moving anywhere West is out of the question for my movements, either because it brings me closer than I'd like to the enemy or puts me in a position that would be hard to extricate myself from.
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Nov 15, 2014 11:21
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markus_cz, can you get an area fire mission like this one (http://i.imgur.com/MEyuJDV.jpg), but further to the east? You can use my Platoon HQ as a spotter if you need to.  Orders--3 Zug "Third Time's the Charm"  -1/B will QUICK move to the indicated position and face as marked -Panzerschreck Team 1 will FAST move to the indicated route, then HUNT the final tile before its destination. It will face along the indicated line. -Tank Hunter Team 2 will FAST through the field to its north, then HUNT the final tile to its destination along the marked hedgerow. Hopefully that mad dash by the Panzerschreck and the Tank Hunter will bag us a Sherman while they fumble along behind that hedge. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Nov 15, 2014 |
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Nov 15, 2014 11:27
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Stfu. A: if they want to advance they'll need to come out where we can see them, they have only a few exits none good. B: that's up hill, I doubt they can see much and if they move up the hill I've got shots into their back. I'm going to assume they're going to try and go through the hedgerow somewhere, it doesn't make sense otherwise(and I think I'll still have shots no matter what they do).
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Nov 15, 2014 11:29
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apseudonym posted:Phone posting but where can their Sherman's actually go from there? The only exit I see is up by where we were shelling and that'd be suicide. Are they going to blast through a hedge or am I missing a more obvious exit? Unless they pop smoke and try to sprint south, those tanks can't advance any further south. If they plan to support their infantry that's suicidal. Your Panther will kill them before they make it. And if you move here, you can see and shoot them as they crawl along that hedgerow They may be trying to sneak along that hedgerow and get a shot off at you. But that's foolish too, since they'd be showing your their flanks while they did it. I'm honestly baffled as to why they'd do something so stupid. There's literally nothing gained by that maneuver. e: you may want to re-issue the "open up" command, just to make sure. You took a couple of hits in Turn 1 and your tank might have buttoned up. Jobbo_Fett posted:No no, seriously though, criticism is appreciated. What's the K/L column look like from 7 on down? Or what about the house at K-10? Here's the view from the K-10 house  Some shots from the farmhouse cluster at L3   tbh, the views from there aren't all that great. And it'd take 3-4 minutes to get there. Jobbo_Fett posted:Moving anywhere West is out of the question for my movements, either because it brings me closer than I'd like to the enemy or puts me in a position that would be hard to extricate myself from. In all honesty, I think your best best bet would be to head north and join apseudonym. That position is so dominant. It'd be drat hard to dislodge two Panthers from it.
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Nov 15, 2014 11:50
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Bacarruda posted:
Where is here? Sorry, I don't think I've ever seen a grid-reference, and while I do now own BFN (Grey!  ) I don't know what map we're on and haven't bothered checking to cut down on me potentially checking out things I shouldn't.Bacarruda posted:I'm honestly baffled as to why they'd do something so stupid. There's literally nothing gained by that maneuver. I don't remember taking any hits, now I'll go re-watch turn 1. Bacarruda posted:
K-10's shot looks over Hautes Crieres and not the roadway, and L3 is way too far North-East for me to ever consider. I was thinking more that treeline in L-7 or further south as the treeline doesn't look like it would break line of sight and there's not much in the way of obstacles there.
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Nov 15, 2014 12:08
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Bacarruda posted:markus_cz, can you get an area fire mission like this one (http://i.imgur.com/MEyuJDV.jpg), but further to the east? You can use my Platoon HQ as a spotter if you need to. Oh! I just realised that I don't have to drag a mission directly from the TRP... I can do that from any point in a 50 m radius around the point. Which allows me to do this:  Delivery time 3 minutes! This is amazingly quick... and too soon I guess. I don't think that area will be swarming with Americans in mere 3 minutes. So for the time being I'm holding fire and letting your team do the scouting. Once we can confirm the Americans are getting close in large numbers, I'll call it.
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Nov 15, 2014 12:45
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What the gently caress? You're waiting 'til we have solid information before calling in a barrage? Are you MAD!?
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Nov 15, 2014 18:35
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markus_cz posted:Oh! I just realised that I don't have to drag a mission directly from the TRP... I can do that from any point in a 50 m radius around the point. Which allows me to do this: Looks great! Let's wait until my 1/A team can make contact with the Americans in those woods. Then call it in and waste those fuckers. After two turns of shelling, I have to imagine the Americans are pretty shaken up. Another round of shelling could smash their southern force.
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Nov 15, 2014 19:36
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Where is here? Sorry, I don't think I've ever seen a grid-reference, and while I do now own BFN (Grey! That's for apseudonym. I'm just noting that his Panther can see those Shermans if he rolls up about 10m an occupies that position. I don't think you've been hit at all, so your commander ought to still be opened up. e: we're playing the "Crossroads at Monthardrou" scenario. Feel free to play around with the map, but don't take a peek at the American forces. Jobbo_Fett posted:K-10's shot looks over Hautes Crieres and not the roadway, and L3 is way too far North-East for me to ever consider. I was thinking more that treeline in L-7 or further south as the treeline doesn't look like it would break line of sight and there's not much in the way of obstacles there. Unfortunately, the L7 area is on the reverse slope of a low hill. With the terrain and the trees, your visibility would be really limited from there. Honestly, I don;t think you need to redeploy. You're already in a great position and they really can't do much to force you out of it. You've got better guns, better armor, and better situational awareness than they do. They've got tank reinforcements arriving soon. In your current position, you could kill them within seconds of their arrival.
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Nov 15, 2014 19:48
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The only reaon for them to move their tanks like that is if they reallyreally want apseudonym dead. I mean, they could turn south and move along the hedgerow to shoot Bacarruda at close range, but then they risk shots to the rear from our tanks and infantry AT at close range. Dark_Swordmaster: I'd like screenshots to see the current ammunition counts for both mortars and the infantry gun, plus a closer view of apseudonym's tank. Bacarruda: You may want to send your Tank Hunter team north as well. If their tanks really do lack infantry support, they're handing us a wonderful opportunity. apseudonym: You're in the most danger. I want you to fight 1 Sherman at a time, not 4. You may need to back up a few meters and use that building to limit the number of eenemies who can see you. Valiantman: If the Shermans are trying to deal with apseudonym, I worry about the fireteam in the building next to him. I suggest you get out and use the hedge for cover instead. Jobbo_Fett: Bacarruda's right, moving south is a poor way to actually see their tanks. The trick is finding a way to get at them without them getting a shot at your side armor first. markus_cz: If it's a choice between the eastern fire mission in 6 minutes and the western one in 3, I'd go with the latter. It will be a few minutes before they get that far, if they even try. I'm guessing we've hammered them pretty hard though. Maybe they'll retreat and try something different? TehKeen: Can you get your panzerschreck team to move forward and help Bacarruda? I don't have time to check the map at this point, but there should be a route by which you can get close to their tanks within a couple of minutes.
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Nov 15, 2014 20:34
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dublish posted:The only reaon for them to move their tanks like that is if they reallyreally want apseudonym dead. I mean, they could turn south and move along the hedgerow to shoot Bacarruda at close range, but then they risk shots to the rear from our tanks and infantry AT at close range. Due to the traffic jam and simply limited areas they can fire from without moving in the open I'm not too concerned yet. You might be right this could be a 'gently caress that guy in particular' move. I'm waiting for a closer screenshot of my tank's location before I plan a move so I can carefully control positioning. e: Here is a closer view of that area their tanks are in:  Note that the south part of this image is a steep hill. The low hedges facing north are all easily spotted by my tank. They are also small enough to only fit a few tanks and require moving across my life of fire to reach all but the first. If they smoke those small hedges and push north east through the gap and along that hedge that can get to here:  which has ok lines of fire but any advancing from there gives me good flank shots. apseudonym fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Nov 15, 2014 |
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Nov 15, 2014 20:45
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dublish posted:Bacarruda: You may want to send your Tank Hunter team north as well. If their tanks really do lack infantry support, they're handing us a wonderful opportunity. Good idea. I'll send a Tank Hunter Team up as well. Orders edited accordingly. dublish posted:apseudonym: You're in the most danger. I want you to fight 1 Sherman at a time, not 4. You may need to back up a few meters and use that building to limit the number of eenemies who can see you. It seems like the Americans are having trouble with pathfinding. If apseudonym unbuttons and moves up a few meters, he should be able to see the Americans one-by-one as they drive past that hedgerow gap. Plus, it looks like the Americans are presenting their flank armor to his Panther. Ammo rack fires  dublish posted:markus_cz: If it's a choice between the eastern fire mission in 6 minutes and the western one in 3, I'd go with the latter. It will be a few minutes before they get that far, if they even try. I'm guessing we've hammered them pretty hard though. Maybe they'll retreat and try something different? If my 1/A team make contact with them in the forest next turn, we'll have a better picture of the Americans' intentions. If they are heading through the forest, markus_cz's fire mission here would be ideal. dublish posted:TehKeen: Can you get your panzerschreck team to move forward and help Bacarruda? I don't have time to check the map at this point, but there should be a route by which you can get close to their tanks within a couple of minutes. That would be a huge help.
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Nov 15, 2014 20:58
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WHO THE gently caress WANTS PICTURES!? Maybe stop shooting so much because loving ammunition is expensive!        
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Nov 15, 2014 22:04
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:WHO THE gently caress WANTS PICTURES!?  Look at all that ammo I still have.Panther 1  HUNT forward, Target Armor Arc front max range centered on the hedges they'll be driving past. apseudonym fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Nov 15, 2014 |
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Nov 15, 2014 22:23
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1KO 2ZUG "EVERYONE GETS STURMGEWEHRS!!"  Move the schreck team down to help Bacarrudazug. I tried to indicate holes in the hedges, I'm not sure if infantry can hop over the low hedges or not. I'm worried about the initial crossing of the field they're in, but hopefully nothing will see them. If anyone else has pathing suggestions, lemme know. Everyone else, continue noshing on schnitzel. Also, MOVE the scout team into the building and try and retrieve those fausts. 
TehKeen fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 15, 2014 22:32
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Just want to make sure that no one bar DSM is running turns in this scenario, you are allowed to hop in and play with deployment and LoS but don't hit that end turn button. It may cause you to discover things about the American force that have no been revealed in our game so far. Apart from that, good job so far my German friends, your plan seems to be unfolding well.
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Nov 16, 2014 01:15
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Abongination posted:Just want to make sure that no one bar DSM is running turns in this scenario, you are allowed to hop in and play with deployment and LoS but don't hit that end turn button. It may cause you to discover things about the American force that have no been revealed in our game so far. I don't believe DSM has given the saves to anybody except you. I'd like to keep it that way.
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Nov 16, 2014 02:28
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Abongination posted:Just want to make sure that no one bar DSM is running turns in this scenario, you are allowed to hop in and play with deployment and LoS but don't hit that end turn button. It may cause you to discover things about the American force that have no been revealed in our game so far. The furthest in I've gone is 0 seconds so I could plot my orders instead of moving on the deploymen, haven't seen poo poo as far as what the Americans have. That'd ruin the fun
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Nov 16, 2014 02:36
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Abongination posted:Just want to make sure that no one bar DSM is running turns in this scenario, you are allowed to hop in and play with deployment and LoS but don't hit that end turn button. It may cause you to discover things about the American force that have no been revealed in our game so far. Absolutely. Goon games run on an honor system and I've no intention of cheating. e: does anyone know the map name? That way we could play around with it Quick Battle and wouldn't even have to open the scenario.
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Nov 16, 2014 02:51
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Bacarruda posted:Absolutely. Goon games run on an honor system and I've no intention of cheating. I tried to find it in the quick battle list when we first started and couldn't find it.
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Nov 16, 2014 03:02
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No worries guys, I trust ya. Was wondering at the lack of deployment zones in your screenies but it makes sense to run it a little so you can plot orders without moving the unit since your deployment zone is so bloody huge. *Edit- No need to switch to quick battle, keep doing what you're doing.
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Nov 16, 2014 03:08
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Abongination posted:No worries guys, I trust ya. If I was smart I'd have loaded it up in turn based mode but 
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Nov 16, 2014 03:10
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 Just gonna sit tight some more. Also, unbutton since I seem to be buttoned up.
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Nov 16, 2014 05:52
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No new orders.
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Nov 16, 2014 05:52
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Hide the guys inside of the house in the north. You know who they are since there are no other houses so I'm not providing a map this time. I can't watch the video from the last turn. The image isn't working for a reason or another. Valiantman fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 14:08
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TURN 4!: I DIDN'T FORGET A MAP!  So... That's not good. It's not the worst thing since it still has a decent overwatch, but it also can't get the gently caress out of dodge and isn't seeing anything anyway.
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Nov 17, 2014 05:08
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:TURN 4!: I DIDN'T FORGET A MAP! Well that's bad. I'm tempted to pop smoke and sit it out for a bit since I don't think I'm going to have much luck spotting them with optics that hit and that much incoming fire.
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Nov 17, 2014 05:45
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poo poo, that didn't end well. apseudonym, I wonder if you can fire smoke or HE shells back at the Shermans? Might blind or drive them off. My AT teams will probably bag at least one Sherman next turn, which will take some pressure off you.
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Nov 17, 2014 06:31
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Bacarruda posted:poo poo, that didn't end well. I dont have smoke shells. I'd rather pop smoke to force them to either sit there waiting for it to clear(giving you time to AT them) or start advancing. e: we could drop mortar smoke on them, but I'd like to pop my own to buy some time regardless. mortar smoke on them would force them to start moving or wait for ages.
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Nov 17, 2014 06:35
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poo poo. Moving forward didn't work, you've got their whole tank force that can shoot at you, and some can hit your side armor. You're not going to last long. At this point, I think you need to use the Target command- even if you can't see what you're shooting at, we might be able to game the system and have you aim at a point on the ground behind your target. Ditto for Jobbo's tank, if he's got LoS to a Sherman but just can't see them. Bacarruda, time to bug out. It might still be a little soon for artillery if that's the only US squad near you, but you've got a hedgerow from which to hold them in at the TRP.
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Nov 17, 2014 07:24
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Pop Smoke. Target Area any sherman location we can point the gun at. Smoke should buy some time.
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Nov 17, 2014 07:30
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dublish posted:Bacarruda, time to bug out. It might still be a little soon for artillery if that's the only US squad near you, but you've got a hedgerow from which to hold them in at the TRP. Agreed. 1/A is gonna bug out and join its buddies at the hedgerow. Based on those recent contacts, it looks like we made contact with at least two squads. I'd say a short, intense area barrage on that TRP could do a number on the Americans. e: I'll play around with the map tomorrow and see what we can do about our tank situation.
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Nov 17, 2014 07:39
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There's been a bit of discussion in the open thread about my bias due to knowing the layout of both forces etc. One solution put forward which I think is a pretty good one is that DSM distance himself from your team and views all the threads in the interest of fairness. Because he's not in a high command role this shouldn't impact your planning and he'll still be able to input turns, offer tips based on what your team can see in-game and get extra in game footage from the turns if you request it.
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Nov 17, 2014 08:14
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Meh, doesn't matter to me.
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Nov 17, 2014 08:17
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Abongination posted:There's been a bit of discussion in the open thread about my bias due to knowing the layout of both forces etc. If that's the only way, then alright, but I feel like part of the reason for having separate people doing the turns was so that each team had somebody to fine-tune and make judgment calls- things that couldn't happen in GH's games due to his knowledge of the whole field. Giving DSM access to everything means that the only difference between this game and Grey Hunter's is that we have two people inputting orders instead of one. My preferred solution would be for you to hand off the US turns to somebody on their team, with you stepping back to coordinate as needed between DSM and whoever runs things on their end. If that's not possible, or if you'd prefer to remain in a position where you run turns (you did take the initiative to actually set up the game so I'm absolutely willing to go with whatever you prefer), then we go with the solution from the open thread.
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Nov 17, 2014 08:44
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