MizPiz posted:

moths posted:

I'm John Stuart Mill and I think it's rad that Utility is doubled from the first panel to the last.
\

quote:

Yes, 4e is not a very good RPG. It's more like a board game with RPG elements. Combat is slow, complex, and allows for no creativity. Powers are only described in rules terms, they don't actually have a diegetic explanation in game, which means that you can't find creative uses for your spells and abilities.

There's nothing wrong with playing or liking 4e, but it's not really a role-playing game.

quote:

PHB 1, page 145:
Warlord's Favor, Warlord
With a calculated blow, you leave your adversary exposed to an imminent attack from one of your closest allies.
PHB 2, page 35:
Overwhelming Strike, Avenger
As you attack, you maneuver around your foe, forcing it to move with you.
PHB 3, Page 121
Stampede Shot, Seeker
Spectral Bison appear and follow your projectile as it streaks toward your enemy.
Heroes of the Fallen Lands, page 91:
Shield of Faith, Cleric
A gleaming shield of divine energy appears over you, granting you and nearby allies protection against attacks
Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, page 124:
Holy Smite, Paladin
Your weapon fills with divine radiant energy, which bursts forth as you strike your enemy

quote:

Right, there's flavor text, but there's no mechanism of action that can be explained in diegetic terms. Perhaps not for every single power without exception, but it's certainly the norm. And the whole daily/encounter power system is massively dissociated, as well.

Maxwell Lord posted:

Seriously- the text tries to argue "Oh, it'll die out now that THE CORES are gone" but the visual story is still "more people are playing and having fun."

They are so close to it but they can't see it.

inklesspen posted:

Yep. Crossbowmen were great but not as great as longbowmen, and there were a couple of key mistakes the French made. (Their crossbowmen were hired mercenaries.) They fought shortly after a rainstorm (bows could easily be unstrung and the strings kept dry, but not so for the crossbows) and screwed up their logistics train (the crossbowmen used shields to duck behind while reloading; these shields were stuck at the back of the train). Then when the crossbows had failed to produce the expected result, the French cavalry attacked their mercenaries while they were trying to retreat.

The thing about crossbows, though, is they didn't require anywhere near as much training as the longbow. That's what made them truly devastating; if you got the logistics right, you could field thousands of poorly-trained conscript soldiers and they would still be a deadly force.

Covok posted:

I feel there is a leap of logic in the above. Why would a game the focuses on the exploration of nihilism and the nature of good and evil lead to making power rangers as PCs and other poo poo of "halfling-hiding-in-whore's rear end" caliber?

Maxwell Lord posted:

Seriously- the text tries to argue "Oh, it'll die out now that THE CORES are gone" but the visual story is still "more people are playing and having fun."

They are so close to it but they can't see it.

Desborouggggleblglgle posted:

Gamergate the Card Game commemorates THE defining culture war of this generation - by taking the piss out of all sides.

Comics fans had Frederic Wertham.

Tabletop gamers had Pat Pulling.

Computer games previously had Jack Thompson.

Now all we have to contend with are upper middle class people with blue hair buckling under crippling white guilt... fighting trolls.

A two player adversarial game, you'll compete with the Social Justice Warriors trying to get away with egregious breaches of ethics before Gamergate can create enough of a fuss and social pressure to expose them, all the while flaming each other on Twitter, screaming for attention and being trolled hard.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Blah Blah Diegetic Blah

Omnicrom posted:

I see someone is using a word without knowing what it means.

Maxwell Lord posted:

Shit_that_didnt_happen_even_in_a_game.txt

ascendance posted:

This seems quite self-explanatory. Reminds me of the horror of FATAL.

Plague of Hats posted:

This thread is some weak poo poo. About two pages of hardly any grog?

quote:

@DriveThruRPG You lost a customer here. You shoudn't have listened to the willing lackeys of immoral corporate media.

Plague of Hats posted:

moths posted:

It sounds like Drivethru won't sell his schoolgirl tentacle rape cardgame and he's blaming BIG GAMING because some other developers, ones with souls, said they didn't want to be associated with a company that sells that poo poo.

Captain Walker posted:

I figured it was the gamergate cardgame mentioned a couple posts above

quote:

Should not have mixed miniatures and pen & paper RPG, November 20, 2012

Wonderful setting, clunky rules that were re-utilized from the miniatures game, looking very simplistic in some fields, like unified damage dice, while having many different abilities that feel almost like D&D 4e powers. I was caught by the setting since the d20 edition, and was looking forward for the appropriate rules, but I'm disappointed with the result. I gave three stars only for the setting and beautiful interior and exterior art, the rules have that hard to swallow "game-istic" and "videogame-istic" feel that ruins immersion and makes the actual play looks like a miniature game, and not a RPG; my group had a hard time incorporating the characters, it all felt too artificial.

4Chan posted:

No, but in all of human history warfare has been about trade-offs. Speed vs. protection, accuracy vs. rate of fire, etc. In EVERYTHING we humans know there has been a trade-off. You couldn't have it all. You can't have the super-protective armour that at the same time let's you keep your dexterity and speed, and making a fantasy universe where that is true (personally) ruins the immersion.

Pulsedragon posted:

Wait are we allowed to use 4chan as a source now?

Ronwayne posted:

Elf Slave Wat Do

moths posted:

Oh, well poo poo. That makes sense.

Found this gem while deciding if I should take advantage of Privateer's bundle deal on the IK RPG:


Miniatures-based combat in a game based on a miniatures combat game feels like a game? Those fuckers.

NOT A TRUE ROLE PLAYING GAME EXPERIENCE

quote:

I would like to state of how much the way the current voting block is making me nervous. The vote is whether to change the terminology of the First Tongue. At first, I wanted it to stay the same because it's hard for me to pronounce the new versions. Then I notice that the new terms sounded a bit Arabian, like in Arabian Nights and RPGs set in a fictional version of the Middle East. Then that led to the crazy stuff that ISIS is doing. Given that werewolves love to hunt, I worry that the Uratha and the Pure would be seen as jihadist-like groups in the World of Darkness.

Looking at the ratings, I think my opinion won't matter anyway, but when they do get accepted as the Lexicon, I plead with Onyx Path to make them alternative terms than the official. When I think about Werewolf: The Forsaken, I don't want to be reminded of ISIS.

quote:

I sorry about that. I know nothing about Sumerian lingo, and I immediately thought Arabian because it's the earliest thing I know of that uses that type of pronounciation with their language. I'm not as educated as other people on this forum about this topic, but whenever I hear the language I think of every pop culture reference set in the Middle East because the same pronouncation is used there.

I know it may be nothing, but my disorder wouldn't allow me to rightly be calm about this after be subjected to everything that these vocal minorities have done in the Middle East (on TV four the past fourteen years. I bet that there were some British players that were concerned in the 90s about playing with the Fianna, given that in the decade before, there was a radical Irish extremist group using car bombs to force the British out of Ireland. It was in the news during that time. When these terms are used, I don't hear "Sumerian", I hear "Arabian", and that flares up my "irrational" fears, as much as other players like me.

And I don't like it when people brush off my concerns like that without consideration, like what ArcaneArts did. It's like laughing at a person with more serious problems than I do because it makes them feel better.

So please, allow me the decency to use the old terms in Werewolf as the new terms offends me.

quote:

First, I want to thank those who are allowing me to use the old terms. I hope Onyx Path will allow the same discretion.

Second: I don't think Arab = Terrorist. There are only a very vocal minority that are linked to terrorist groups. It's like thinking Old Testament = Westboro Baptist. I'm just saying that it concerned me because of all the hype on the major news channels. The majority of those living in the Middle East are just hard-working people. Don't just assume that a person is racist because of a single concern on their part.

I will respect those that use the new terms, and I hope I'm not shut out by players when I use the Old Terms.

I hope that Onyx Path speaks about this in respect for those who want the new terms and those who want the old standby when they write-up the spirits in 2E.

Also, thank you for the info on Sumerian language, but I must tell you that there will be players of the TLR variety that will blow off the info like some conservatives do with certain aspects of science.

quote:

And in a sort of circle jerk, you implied that I'm racist because of said equation. Plus, the reason why I think Arabian when I see the words is that NO ONE, BUT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TELLING ME I'M WRONG, KNOWS IT'S SUMERIAN! I don't know Sumerian, my Mom doesn't know Sumerian, my brother doesn't know Sumerian, and the guys that I game with doesn't know Sumerian. It's comments like yours that me feel like a high school graduate discussing literature with Harvard Valedictorians and I'm sick to death on this elitist snobbery. And to use the term "racist" for people who don't agree with people like you just makes me wonder why I spend my time discussing these topics. Plus, I HAVE ASD, okay? I won't get all the cues that you do, but it doesn't excuse the fact that you insulted me when I was trying to concede. This makes me hope that the Ghost Wolves are the third voice in 2E, because I don't want to be on EITHER side, if people are just going to troll each other.

dr_ether posted:

Haha. The minis ruin the immersion? The fact that the minis you can get are purposefully designed for that setting?

Why is it assumed just because it uses minis for combat (and it works well I might add) that it is then assumed the entire game should be run as a minis dungeon crawl?

Covok posted:

Judging from John Wicks' 3e review in the old grog thread, use of minis was looked down upon in the early 2000s as well. I wasn't a gamer then and this is assuming John Wick wasn't just talking for himself, but, if it's true, I wonder why. Is it s cost thing? Is it an attempt to distance the hobby from wargames? For people who were into GNS theory, was it because it limited narrative power? Or, at least, was perceived to?

Covok posted:

Judging from John Wicks' 3e review in the old grog thread, use of minis was looked down upon in the early 2000s as well. I wasn't a gamer then and this is assuming John Wick wasn't just talking for himself, but, if it's true, I wonder why. Is it s cost thing? Is it an attempt to distance the hobby from wargames? For people who were into GNS theory, was it because it limited narrative power? Or, at least, was perceived to?

Covok posted:

Judging from John Wicks' 3e review in the old grog thread, use of minis was looked down upon in the early 2000s as well. I wasn't a gamer then and this is assuming John Wick wasn't just talking for himself, but, if it's true, I wonder why. Is it s cost thing? Is it an attempt to distance the hobby from wargames? For people who were into GNS theory, was it because it limited narrative power? Or, at least, was perceived to?

Naive guy posted:

This is to explore the idea if "Gypsies" (And I'm aware that some Roma people consider this an offensive term, and some don't, so I'll avoid using the term as much as possible from here on) as they appear in classic gothic horror stories and movies, can be incorporated into modern Horror Games such as the World of Darkness, without being horribly offensive or overly stereotypical.

So first let's get a few things out of the way....

We'd of course ignore all terrible concepts like "Blood Purity" and "all Roma are con people" and "all Roma are secretly magical people" type thing...

But is it possible, to imagine there might be SOME Roma caravans and tribes, who do in fact have secret knowledge of the Supernatural, and may practice their own form of family magic (Much like say a group such as the Arcanum, Mage Crafts/Traditions or various Hedge Magic groups in Nwod) that's kept very insular and to themselves?

It wouldn't be due of course to the Roma types having some sorta "mystic blood" nonsense, but rather be simply due to factors like every other secret occult group in the WoD.... Many many years ago, some of the individuals came across the supernatural, learned from it, developed their own magical tradition, and rather than making it a mystery cult or secret society, decided to keep it among nomadic family lines...

This would mean their particular brand of magic could be learned by dedicated outsiders, but most likely the magic practicing roma families would keep a tight lid on it, and or like other WoD groups, hunt down those who show outsiders and eliminate them.

In any case...while the old "Magic Gypsies and Thieves" can be seen as offensive, I would hope their could be a way to present the idea of the secret mystic nomads who practice their own art, and cross paths with various supernatural types.... In oWod it could be a mage Craft group, while in Nwod it could be presented as a 2nd tier Hunter Conspiracy perhaps.

ProfessorCirno posted:

ROLEPLAYING, NOT ROLLPLAYING.

Basically starting in the 90's you had games increasingly try to distance themselves from D&D, the most successful being Vampire: the Masquerade. Nerds being nerds, this almost immediately turned into bickering as to which game was the one for mature, intelligent, sophisticated roleplayers. White Wolf, despite like 90% of their rules still being about combat, played of their stereotype as being all about stories and drama and being your character as opposed to D&D's brute hack and slash. D&D in turn got on it's own metagame train and started to vomit out settings like there was no tomorrow and push novels harder then D&D has ever pushed before or since. So even before the whole GNS thing everyone was screaming that only they were the true roleplayers not like those other storygamers or rollplayers or what have you. By 2000 you had 3e trying to step away from all of this by advertising itself BACK TO THE DUNGEON and COOL PRECISE FIGHTING RULES and AWESOME CHARACTER BUILDING METAGAME, but then the Forge hit the internet and threw out the GNS theory which labeled D&D exactly what it had been labeling itself as only for D&D fans to get insulted and begin backtracking immediately and screaming about how D&D isn't just dungeon crawls and fighting rules and character building.

quote:

Nerds being insufferable and exclusionary is maybe just an inherent thing.

gradenko_2000 posted:

What I usually hear is that miniatures "distract" from the ROLEplaying by "making players focus too much on the map" and not on coming up with creative descriptions for their actions.

While some of that can undoubtedly be chalked up to a DM that doesn't try and make an interesting battlefield (if it's just going to be a wide open plain then yeah just TOTM that poo poo), it always strikes me as an astounding failure of imagination.

Numlock posted:

I wonder where those girls and "Dudebros" come from (I'm using dudebro in all my conversations now because it makes me laugh) because I see exactly 0 women who aren't just as nerdy and weird as the men at my FLGS, and its not much different with the RPG groups. Exactly 0 "dudebros" unless I'm what they are talking about because I occasionally talk about sports and poo poo while doing my nerd stuff.

Wait was this talking stuff going on in a high-school or something?