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Murodese posted:Holy fuckin lol my duty is not to load up our children and our grandchildren with debt. a butt.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:36
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ewe2 posted:Glenn Lazarus just shut Pyne down on the higher ed bill: is this the crazy senate inquiry guy?
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Dec 2, 2014 03:43
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Leo Showers posted:is this the crazy senate inquiry guy? No he's the guy who made a career out of running at a big group of angry men about 10 metres away and then falling over before really accomplishing anything And before that he played professional rugby league
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Dec 2, 2014 03:49
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Senator Brick with Eyes posted:“If Christopher Pyne is still the Minister for Education next year, which I strongly doubt, I suggest he takes the bill away, consults with all stakeholders and develops a new plan to support the higher education sector without hurting students. 
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Dec 2, 2014 03:57
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From a few days ago, but:Fruity Gordo posted:All of which should really not be a surprise since whenever someone wheels out a 'personal choice' argument in relation to oppressive structures ten to one they're a lolbertarian who wouldn't know material analysis if it shat down their throat. Do you see any parallels at any level between this and the discussion about burqas and niqabs a while back? Fruity Gordo posted:prostitution is inextricably linked with patriarchy because of the hugely gendered demographics at play in sex work, and therefore that the organised commodification of women's bodies and sexuality constitutes violence against women. This struck me as similar to what some were trying to say about facial concealing garbs. Swap "prostitution" with "burqas" and "commodification" with "subjugation". They're both a deeply entrenched patriarchal system that has historically been used to oppress women, but which now some women appear to have taken upon themselves. So now if women are choosing to participate in it, is that really a free choice, or is it a hangover from centuries of structural oppression? Are they being overtly or subtly forced into it? Is it harmful, to the individual and/or society, and if so, what (if anything) can we do about it? With the burqas, when people tried to say that they were bad, your argument as that it was the women's choice, that they made it freely and happily, and any suggestion otherwise was racist or patriarchal, and furthermore men weren't allowed to partake in the discussion. I'm not trying to strawman you here so sorry for the simplification (and I'm not going to try and find whenever the actual discussion was), but is that basically right? Cos a lot of that also sounds a lot like some of the 'myths about the nordic model' you posted: 1. I’m a sex worker, I choose sex work and I love it / I'm a Muslim, I wear a niqab, and I love it. 2. Only sex workers are qualified to comment on prostitution / Only women/Muslims are allowed to comment on niqabs 3. All sex workers oppose the Nordic Model / All Muslims oppose the burqa ban 4. The Nordic Model denies sex workers’ agency / A burqa ban denies women's agency 9. The Nordic Model is really a moral crusade in disguise. / The Burqa Ban is a racist crusade in disguise They don't all line up perfectly of course but I think the similarities are there. You could argue there's a gulf between the oppression of a woman wearing a full facial covering and prostitution, and throw the whole thing out at that point if you like, but I'm wondering how big of a gulf it actually is. I get the feeling that the crux of the problem is "men telling women what to do". So I don't support banning the burqa, because (apart from often being racially charged), it amounts to men telling women what to wear. But can we be sure that there's not a man telling the woman to wear it in the first place? And if there is, what can be done about that? Similarly with prostitution, who's telling who to do what can get quite murky. And so, like yourself, I have reservations about the Nordic model. Anyway. It jumped out at me so I thought it was worth bringing up. This isn't trying to be a 'gotcha' or anything, so please don't blow up at me in reply, I think it's a potentially interesting discussion. Or basically, where your article says this: 10 myths about prostitution, trafficking and the Nordic model posted:Similarly, when anyone practicing radical politics points out that free choice is a fairytale, and that all our actions are constrained within certain material conditions, this does not equate to saying we’re all infantilized, little drones unable to make decisions for ourselves. It just means we’re not all floating around in a cultural vacuum making decisions completely unaffected by structural issues like systemic economic inequality, racism and sexism. To what extent do you think this is this true about facial coverings?
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Dec 2, 2014 04:04
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ewe2 posted:Glenn Lazarus just shut Pyne down on the higher ed bill: So that's it then, right? Even if Muir supports it now they can't get enough votes. This government seems to actually be as incompetent as Tone was always accusing Gillard of being.
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Dec 2, 2014 04:25
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SKY COQ posted:“If Christopher Pyne is still the Minister for Education next year, which I strongly doubt, I suggest he takes the bill away, consults with all stakeholders and develops a new plan to support the higher education sector without hurting students. 
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Dec 2, 2014 04:25
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Hockey is now saying the destruction of the Australian Car Industry was needed so the 3 FTA's could be signed. He's turned the signing of the FTA's to a political death certificate. Well done Joe! Any political capital they may have got from the FTA's has been poisoned and of no use to the Liberals at all in the future. Comstar fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 04:39
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Yeah Tone was spruiking the FTAs as a victory in the Stefanovic interview, which strikes me as bizarre. Are FTAs popular in the electorate at all?
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Dec 2, 2014 04:45
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Amethyst posted:Yeah Tone was spruiking the FTAs as a victory in the Stefanovic interview, which strikes me as bizarre. Are FTAs popular in the electorate at all? I think they're seen as vaguely positive although most people couldn't tell you why.
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Dec 2, 2014 04:49
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Those On My Left posted:Like saying "Good on ya PM" in response to Tone Abet having a cry about political correctness and urging us to "let boys be boys, let girls be girls". What was the quote from Abbott? Stefanovic seems to have his head screwed on right regarding sexism and the like, as shown by the suit story. If he agreed with "leave toys alone, it's Christmas" it's completely different than agreeing to "boys get trucks, girls get kitchen toys as God intended."
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Dec 2, 2014 04:58
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Those On My Left posted:Like saying "Good on ya PM" in response to Tone Abet having a cry about political correctness and urging us to "let boys be boys, let girls be girls".
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Dec 2, 2014 05:01
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gay picnic defence posted:I think they're seen as vaguely positive although most people couldn't tell you why. Having the word 'free' in them probably appeals. If they were called 'stripping local protections' Deals it would probably be a different story.
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Dec 2, 2014 05:02
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I was wondering earlier - exactly how much damage have the Libs actually managed to do in the last year? Their budget is still just sitting there in the dirt. Their education and dole reforms are in a six foot deep hole waiting to be filled in. They killed the carbon tax, so there's that. But, in so many ways, it seemed like everyone was banding together to gently caress with their collective poo poo on the big issues. It wasn't until I found this link to SallyMcManus.com that it struck me just how much they'd done to gently caress up the country. Reading through all 296 items on the list is so depressing. Thankfully some of the items are broken promises and it's a good thing he broke them because of how lovely they were - like watering down the race hate laws for Bolt.
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Dec 2, 2014 05:04
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Gorilla Salad posted:I was wondering earlier - exactly how much damage have the Libs actually managed to do in the last year? They've announced a lot of cuts but have many of them actually passed? Or is some funding administered without needing to pass a law to change the funding levels?
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Dec 2, 2014 05:07
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What I meant was, it seems like a lot of good news has come out lately with the Libs being stopped in their quest to gently caress up this country for anyone earning less than a million dollars a year. Then I was horribly reminded just how bad they have hosed things up, cutting spending everywhere they can and leaving people to die in torture camps and all the rest. I had a momentary good feeling ruined by facts and wanted to share :hifive:
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Dec 2, 2014 05:11
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Those On My Left posted:Like saying "Good on ya PM" in response to Tone Abet having a cry about political correctness and urging us to "let boys be boys, let girls be girls". It was literally the last question in what was already a 10 minute interview, the "good on ya PM" sounded more like "good bye thanks for your time see you later" than an explicit agreement with the sentiment the PM had just expressed (which was "and above all else, let the parents do what they think is in the best interest of their children"). Has he done anything else that makes him a shithead?
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Dec 2, 2014 05:12
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gay picnic defence posted:They've announced a lot of cuts but have many of them actually passed? Or is some funding administered without needing to pass a law to change the funding levels? All need law however convention is that the Senate passes appropriation bills for the ordinary services of the government.
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Dec 2, 2014 05:18
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Nibbles! posted:All need law however convention is that the Senate passes appropriation bills for the ordinary services of the government. So stuff like the CSIRO cuts went through without a whimper?
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Dec 2, 2014 05:21
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Jesus old tones looks like a blobfish in that interview. 'Are you worried that you might be a one term wonder?' 
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Dec 2, 2014 05:23
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Turnbull tried to make a neocon burn about Conroy, calling the ALP " Neoconrovianism". Yes. He did.
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Dec 2, 2014 05:44
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gay picnic defence posted:So stuff like the CSIRO cuts went through without a whimper? Yeah. You have different bills but the main appropriation is the day-to-day running of the country and funding for established institutions falls into that. The Senate would have to block that bill, which Labor didn't due to convention. If they had it would be blocking supply which is what happened to Whitlam.
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Dec 2, 2014 05:44
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Hobo Erotica posted:It was literally the last question in what was already a 10 minute interview, the "good on ya PM" sounded more like "good bye thanks for your time see you later" than an explicit agreement with the sentiment the PM had just expressed (which was "and above all else, let the parents do what they think is in the best interest of their children"). Stefanovic has said atleast one stupid/ignorant thing so you must hate him if you wish to remain ideologically pure.
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Dec 2, 2014 05:49
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Nibbles! posted:Yeah. You have different bills but the main appropriation is the day-to-day running of the country and funding for established institutions falls into that. The Senate would have to block that bill, which Labor didn't due to convention. If they had it would be blocking supply which is what happened to Whitlam. Cue future attempts to put everything into appropriation so the Senate can't touch it. At which point Senate will probably HAVE to block supply.
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Dec 2, 2014 05:53
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Sparticle posted:Stefanovic has said atleast one stupid/ignorant thing so you must hate him if you wish to remain ideologically pure. He went on-air completely hammered the morning after the Logies, does that make him better or worse?
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Dec 2, 2014 05:56
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ewe2 posted:Cue future attempts to put everything into appropriation so the Senate can't touch it. At which point Senate will probably HAVE to block supply. The constitutional requirements as to why they have to split them up is to prevent that from happening. It's not that the Senate can't block it, it's that convention says they shouldn't. That's why it's usually the Libs and Labor voting them through whilst the minors and independents block it, cause I guess they don't really care.
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Dec 2, 2014 05:56
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The Guardian posted:Pyne sought to win over Lambie, a Tasmanian, and other senators with the offer of funding for a $400m redevelopment of the University of Tasmania. Lambie posted:Someone should go and take Christopher Pyne a box of Kleenex, like I said five months ago, because it’s all over for Christopher Pyne with those university reforms
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Dec 2, 2014 05:58
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That was a pretty amazing press conference. The LNP must be smarting that a woman of all things (not even as educated as them) is holding them to ransom like this.
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Dec 2, 2014 06:02
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God help me I'm starting to like Lambie.
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Dec 2, 2014 06:04
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webmeister posted:He went on-air completely hammered the morning after the Logies, does that make him better or worse? Better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtj5Vx9Z884
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Dec 2, 2014 06:05
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webmeister posted:He went on-air completely hammered the morning after the Logies, does that make him better or worse? I don't drink and think that widely it is damaging to society, but still Better imo because it shows the due respect that should be given to both the logies and morning TV Gough Suppressant fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 06:05
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Nibbles! posted:The constitutional requirements as to why they have to split them up is to prevent that from happening. For those playing at home, when we say "block" we mean "send it back to the lower house instead of passing it" and yes that's totally convention. They just can't amend appropriation bills. I'm not sure they can even debate them.
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Dec 2, 2014 06:07
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I hope every labor MP holds daily press conferences until parliament resumes demanding Abbott call a double dissolution election or something.
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Dec 2, 2014 06:08
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ewe2 posted:For those playing at home, when we say "block" we mean "send it back to the lower house instead of passing it" and yes that's totally convention. They just can't amend appropriation bills. I'm not sure they can even debate them. Actually just to muddy the waters further they probably can amend appropriation bills and tax bills as the High Court has said those provisions aren't judicially enforcible, it's up to the parliament to regulate themselves. Getting back to the original point though, anything related to the day-to-day running of the country will get passed. It's new areas or changes to services themselves (ie GP payment) that are separated and liable to be blocked.
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Dec 2, 2014 06:18
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Sparticle posted:Stefanovic has said atleast one stupid/ignorant thing so you must hate him if you wish to remain ideologically pure. Ok but what was the stupid/ignorant thing(s) he said Gough Suppressant posted:I don't drink and think that widely it is damaging to society, but still Better imo because it shows the due respect that should be given to both the logies and morning TV Wait don't you work in a bottle shop?
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Dec 2, 2014 06:19
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Hobo Erotica posted:
It means he doesn't drink the profits. The perfect man for the job.
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Dec 2, 2014 06:27
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Hobo Erotica posted:Ok but what was the stupid/ignorant thing(s) he said No idea. That's not my point. I'm saying even if he has said dumb poo poo he doesn't do it frequently enough to be called a "shithead". It was a dig at all the lefter-than-thou people who add anyone to their shitlist as soon as they say one thing that doesn't fit their ideology.
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Dec 2, 2014 06:31
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Hobo Erotica posted:Ok but what was the stupid/ignorant thing(s) he said I sure do!
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Dec 2, 2014 06:35
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-02/navy-personnel-open-up-about-border-protection/5933260quote:Fiona said she was also aware of the level of indirect political pressure applied to border protection operations. 
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Dec 2, 2014 06:35
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Sparticle posted:No idea. That's not my point. I'm saying even if he has said dumb poo poo he doesn't do it frequently enough to be called a "shithead". It was a dig at all the lefter-than-thou people who add anyone to their shitlist as soon as they say one thing that doesn't fit their ideology. Yeah I get that, I guess I was asking the people who do think he's a shithead, sorry
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Dec 2, 2014 06:37
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