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EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Chalk me up as another person who played Lufia 2 front to back several times over. It's one of my favorite SNES RPG's of all time.

Boss Jewels while powerful and full of +stat goodness tend to taper off really quickly. Arguably the best part about the Catfish Jewel is that it's a powerful all-enemy attack when your options for those just opened up. I ended up not caring about the boss jewels after the next one, mainly because that one has a cool attack and because droprates get so bad I never got any afterwards, except in the post-postgame.

IP abilities are also a great addition to the gameplay and allow some characters to do cool stuff when in Lufia they were pretty much stuck with two options: Attack and Item.

I like the remake. Sure it's a lot different than the base game but I found it interesting for those changes. Plus the translation helps make a lot of things clearer (knock Square-Enix for a lot of things, but they've got a REAL good translation team now.)
Also Doc Lexis practically makes the game by himself.
'Whoops I accidentally turned our boat into a tank!'
'I accidentally made not only a Time Travel device but a Teleporter too!'
'You get to use my incredible Bike Pedals of Science to activate and traverse this bridge!'

The Gordovan Drawbridge is also really snazzy in motion.

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EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
In the SNES games, Charred Newts just restored a pittance of HP.

If I remember correctly Charred/Dried/Preserved Newt is one of those 'mystical energy' ingredients/supplements.
Sort of in the vein of Ginseng and Gingko.

Them restoring IP in the remake is probably because Potions cover all your healing needs and the rest of the items in the game don't fit what replenishing IP would be. (Except Miracles because Miracles can do whatever they want.)

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
The most annoying mistake I made when doing this puzzle was accidentally pushing a red/blue block past 2 others and having to reset a minute later when I dealt with the rest. Such a :doh: moment.
The last of a later set of puzzles like this is where I really started abusing Reset though.

I like that Berty and Bart aren't a boss battle at the end of the dungeon though. It sort of reinforces their whole 'slapstick did they really just do that' comedy deal.

Also if I remember right incidental NPC chatter after getting your reward has them postponing the Coronation to go over their security. Because even NPC's realize getting stone cold robbed by those wily thieves shouldn't have happened.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
I never even had to do that as cravings seemed to reset fairly often if you just stuck to feeding them what they want. Feed them a craved item, wander around/get in a few fights and check if they want it again.

I never knew the Regal Goblin was open to sleep :psyduck:
That makes this fight so much easier.

The Regal Goblin can be a tough fight as while he only has a single target attack, he can call in more Goblins. And Goblin Mages. Who have a bundle of health (Catfish jewel isn't guaranteed to take them out in one shot) and know Spark.
I'm not sure if he can call in Goblin Soldiers as well but they're just beefier garden variety dudes and the Mages are the real threat.
Most of my failed attempts against him have been when he's summoned 2-3 Goblin Mages and they went to town mixing multi-target and single target Sparks.

Other than that it's a fairly decent dungeon and gives you some hints about how loot is hidden throughout the game. The grass-regrowing puzzle is fairly tame since it can't regrow in an already occupied space.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
I loved going for the Camu Jewel simply because of Buster Attack's awesome animation.
Camu also has another trick where he can summon Followers (palette swaps of the dudes he sic'd on the team in Tanbel) but unlike the Regal Goblin and his Mages, Followers are chumps. They share Camu's lightning weakness and don't have the HP to stick around long enough to cause problems. Plus they just hit someone for less damage than Camu's normal attack does. Camu summoning a Follower is a turn that he's not Buster Attack/Halberding the pain on. Halberd being a strong single target attack that will really hurt Maxim/Guy and put Tia at red/low health.

Also Guy! Guy's pretty great. He hits hard and has a bunch of HP so the lack of MGR is only an issue for Bosses that really want to kill you with spells/spell-like attacks.
Unlike in the first game who's resident 'cannot learn spells and has 0 MP growth' character could only attack or use items, this game gives Guy a wider weapon and armor selection with better stats and/or sweet IP abilities. Camu's armor is pretty awesome for a decent stretch of the game.
His characterization (while frontloaded) is pretty natural, understandable and completely honest. Guy ain't complicated and a lot of games would benefit from the approach to Guy's character taken here.

Didn't know you could hop in the tower before going to Tanbel but then again there really isn't anything stopping you from going into the tower itself. I know I've done some pre-plot mandated dungeon visits both in the Catfish Cave: "Where's the Catfish, he's supposed to be- did I forget to step into town!?" and in later dungeons. It just never occurred to me to do so here since I wanted Guy in my party ASAP.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
I wouldn't say it's bad about it's scripting it's just that it has a fairly obvious set of assumptions (town first -> talk to everyone -> dungeon) and a weirdly designed early-game progression with some dungeons doubling up as doors between segments of the game. The Catfish Cave is sorta there to lay out the rules of how things will be going forward and Aluntze reinforces that structure.

Then again the game only really punishes you for exploring where you shouldn't be yet by having you do those places over again. Otherwise it's pretty good at locking those areas off.

ultrafilter posted:

Do the capsule monsters ever show up out of combat once you get them, or are they purely for fighting?

The only time you see their non-battle sprite is when you recruit them. They're pretty much a bonus since you can go through the game without recruiting any capsule monsters at all.

EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Jan 11, 2015

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Huh, yeah the original line fits way better and solidifies Maxim as 'intentionally avoiding the Issue' with Tia rather than being dumb.
I could see the translator changing it to make him less antagonistic towards Tia and also portray her in a slightly better light? I dunno, that changes some characterization around for both Tia and Maxim.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Another vote for Smaug!

Tarantula is annoying because while the game gives you all the tools to deal with his paralysis and poison he's still a giant slog because the only way to hit his fire weakness effectively is with a cowardly dog that will die/run away quickly or the Fire Dagger.
Thus if you don't have the Fire Dagger (Poison Shower will take care of Armor Dog one way or the other) the fight turns into a nasty battle of attrition where you'll likely lose to a bad string of paralysis. Tarantula smacking Maxim/Tia alternatively and getting no freebie paralysis cures is the main deciding factor in the fight, since you need multi-target healing on top of status healing. Items don't multi-target/multi-target well. (I forget which it is, items are more valuable as out of battle healing than in-battle 90% of the time.)

Oh yeah don't forget that you have jewelry that can cast Fake/Agi Up. It'll counteract Spiderweb nicely and the above scenario is especially likely if Tarantula get's his turns before the party, thus interrupting your paralysis cures by paralyzing that person.

The Spido Jewel isn't worth it. It's IP is Spiderweb. A cheap slow. There's really only one thing worth using it on before you can go into the Ancient Cave and thus get access to it again. Doing this run on the 4x Exp/Money mode is already going towards mitigating that one thing.
I got it honestly (redoing the entire battle from the save point on the cartridge) once and Tarantula is kind of a pain to fight over and over again for that low of a drop.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

KataraniSword posted:

The amusing part is that Tia is by far the worst party member in the game statistically, with her only competition for the spot getting the advantage of a weapon that multi-targets. :ssh: This game does a lot to make Magic just as useful as physical attacks, but Tia's utility will quickly drop off as soon as she's not the only one filling the "spellcaster" niche in the party.

Her competition is actually way better than her not because of that (It is a bonus though!) but because of raw stats. Tia I think is MGR heavy while they have the highest INT in the game. Same bad spell selection though, which is really the biggest issue. It does sort of become a weird-yet-fitting instance of gameplay and story integration though.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
The attack animations are lovely little details that flesh out the characters a bit.

Even if I'm not sure what the heck Guy's doing. It looks like a back hand slash but the slash trail is behind him so he might be doing a full roundhouse slash? A one-handed homerun swing with a sword/axe? Whatever, Guy is what Guy does: rip things in half (either accidentally or intentionally!)

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

KataraniSword posted:

The first fight with SPOILER sticks out to me as the only other mandatory speed bump, mostly because of arbitrary party limits.

Not really, since the game still gives you all the tools you need to get past that point and unlike the Tarantula that boss just does pure damage. I forget if the other thing he does is tweaked for that fight but even then, one of said tools casts a spell and you can multitarget IP spells like normal ones.

Of course the first time I fought him I somehow got lost in the tower until my characters were rather overleveled but I went in with the same strategy/equipment at lower levels and didn't really have a problem with him.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
There is a bit of story/gameplay integration going on here.

Right now, Selan's better at swords than Tia is (though still not as much as Maxim.) Being able to equip them also means she gets access to their IP attacks and right now there's a lot more physical IP's then magical.
Ultimately however she's more suited to spellcasting. The King in his crazy wisdom has her following Maxim to get her experience (either by observing a 'Hero's' leadership skills and/or her own capabilities) to help her grow. She is pretty much the same prodigy to Parcelyte as Guy is to Tanbel.

Admittedly some of this is a stretch. Generic soldier NPC's in Lufia are pretty much window dressing and there's very few that are actually capable of fulfilling their jobs compared to the main cast.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Yeah, Cold Rapier on Maxim, Fire Dagger on Guy is pretty much all you need for the Clowns.
The last of the Treasure Signs' flipping puzzle was the first thing that caused me so many resets. It's genuinely complicated!

And also still easy in terms of the games overall puzzles :suicide:

Playing normally on 4x should give you a fair shot at the next guy. It's totally worth it.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Bluemage142 posted:

Good update. Learned a few things there, aside from that I'd misremembered some spells. The Undead Ring thing was a major one.
I get the feeling that this game is so obtuse and mistranslated, that somebody would have to decompile it to actually figure out how it works.


It's actually not obtuse. The Undead Ring follows the Lufia rule in that equipment is named after what's it's effective against (if said equipment provides any boosts etc.)

The actual detrimental equipment is named to actually fool you. I will always remember the Lucky Blade in the first game. (It was one of the first bits of Cursed Equipment.)

I do like how while the DS cuts out a lot of the 'filler' of the original games it still keeps the characters from those bit arcs.

EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jan 18, 2015

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Blastinus posted:

By the way, I haven't had the chance to show off Selan's attack animation yet. Of all the characters, she is the only one who has the gumption to slash up and to the left. Will we encounter someone who dares to conquer the down and to the right direction? Who knows.

Re-reading the update to comment on the next point I can't help but :xd: at this. It's something I've never noticed before!

Booky posted:

It also just sounds like a better lesson to give as well, for telling you that sometimes you gotta take matters into your own hands and be strong. Who tells little girls not to cry because it's supposed to be important anyways? :psyduck:

If I had to guess, the DS script might have been changed from the SNES one. I wonder how the Japanese versions were?

Overall the script is just better translated, aside from really weird translator inserts (Maxim's thoughts on Guy and Jesse apparently.) Knowing that I am rather curious how many of those were added in. While a weird insert may be possible here the 'don't cry because girl's tears are special' does sort of come up again.

It's still wrong/bad advice, but it comes up in a nice way again.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Yeah you would think he'd just say his name after awhile or find something else notable to say about himself.

"Hi I'm Maxim, I fought Gades and didn't get killed!"
"My name's Maxim and I came here on a sweet Landship."
"Hello, I'm Maxim. I extended Gordovan Bridge with my own two feet and boy am I tired."

Unfortunately the GBC-ness of the audio keeps any of Lufia: The Legend Returns music from sticking in my head like Lufia 2's. It's still good though!


MagusofStars posted:

It's actually kind of impressive just how many enemies have specific weaknesses that you can hit by equipping the right weapon. Sadly, the main game's enemies are simple enough (particularly on 4x XP mode) that it tends to be basically optional - The clowns are easier with the proper elemental weapon and IP attack, but it's completely doable without it.

If you play in the bonus mode, however, abusing enemies' weaknesses can often be the difference between success and game over.

Yeah there's a lot of tactics that are worth trying out and keeping in mind because while 4X mode makes the game a breeze, using and learning tactics helps for the other modes and makes for a more involved play experience. Plus even 4X mode doesn't blunt some of the game's challenges.

EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jan 19, 2015

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Ah Gades, a good unwinnable fight and a glimpse into his psyche.

Note while all the buildings in Gordovan are totaled, everyone's pretty much alive. Gades wants to fight strong people. Since there were none in Gordovan he made a big mess so that word would travel and hopefully some strong people would hear about it and show up.
He was right!

But yeah the fight is incredibly simple and that's what makes it possible: If you/a key player in your strategy doesn't die in the first (few) turns he's easily beatable because all he does is an insane amount of physical damage.
Which the game has given you tools to mitigate.

I usually punk Gades around the level Blastinus' is at or around 1-2 higher depending on my Red Core luck (I don't go hunting them but if I encounter and kill them then hey!)
Being able to barely survive a Destructo-Wave is the minimum for being 100% able to clear this fight.

Unlike beating Zeal-Era Lavos in Chrono Trigger (a similar fight except that Lavos' attack pattern is way more merciless) where you continue on into the endgame if you do beat him, here you just surprise Gades enough to drop his sword.

The Gades blade is one of the strongest weapons in the game. It having Octo-strike as an IP is just overkill. I love it to pieces because of that.
The Dark Element is quite the opportunity cost though. IIRC Dark is one of the most common enemy resistances and the Undead Ring will look even more meager as time goes on.

Still it's a good reward.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Krumbsthumbs posted:

It is a very powerful weapon for the first 1/2 of the game, but it quickly is overshadowed by other weapons in terms of pure power and also bonus stats. The Gades Blade is just a solid 200 boost, so eventually you'll want to use other equipment. It does however, have a few useful things going for it, the IP and the fact that it is a boss drop.

I always give it to someone very special that mitigates most of that. It's an extremely fitting match even when those other options become available.

Aerdan posted:

... They just picked 'Sinistral' because 'sinister' is evil and they couldn't say 'mad gods'.

The Sinistrals are actual more left-handed than they were in the original. Gades swapped hands (which is admittedly the biggest change) while two stayed the same and the last is holding their weapon in a more-ambidextrous way (slashing suggests right-handedness while stabbing implies left.)

Then they get all muddy again in Legend Returns so the point is that this is the most 'Sinistral' they get.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Merix and the North Cave bridge I like to think are for veterans of the first game, where there was similar bridge-building shenanigans that needed to happen.

Only it involved a multi-entrance dungeon.
Where not only did you have to go to the bridge itself to see that it's broken...
But you had to go back to the nearby kingdom to get them to send people to fix it...
You then had to talk to the carpenters next to the bridge for them to tell you that 'We work better when people watch, go up to that convenient overlook and watch us.'
Go up to the overlook and watch them fix the bridge...
Then finally cross the bridge.

Not counting any time you spent getting lost figuring out which cave you had to go into both for the Bridge and for that overlook point. (It had like 5 entrances with 2 looping paths, one to the bridge and one of the looping paths had the overlook as an offshoot.)
Also in the original you walked everywhere one, step, at, a time. Compared to Maxim just blitzing everywhere here.

So it's probably my favorite interlude just for that! So cathartic.

I never minded that Guy got sent off at this point to care for his sister. It's a good character moment and it's not like Guy'll be slowed down by anything catching up.
I also don't mind the somewhat awkward interlude with the falling down-holes bit. It's essentially where the earlier subtle foreshadowing becomes obvious foreshadowing.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

CmdrKing posted:

God, is that what Estopolis is supposed to refer to? That makes way more sense. Can't fault the localization folks for the name change at least; nobody on the game ever refers to the name if the world, just the individual cities/nations.

And Lands. There's North, South, and West land (I forget where the GBA Lufia took place but I forget about that game a lot.)

The events of Lufia 1 took place in the North Land, we're currently in South Land and Legend Returns is over in the West Land.

Considering the geographical size Estopolis is either really big or people are pretty tiny.

Dual Blade talk: I always thought it more metaphysical than that. Considering what it explicitly does, I always considered it to be the Dual/double of whomever wields it. A mirror in the form of a sword sort of deal.

EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jan 22, 2015

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Ah Dekar. Contrast to Maxim's intentional thickness with Tia earlier, Dekar is exactly as he seems. With a personality (and power) like that he's arguably the one who's molded Bound Kingdom the most.
Or it molded around him.
Either way, Dekar's pretty awesome. He introduces a bit of levity via being gung-ho and oblivious but unlike others who exhibit it that's not all Dekar is. His interactions with the King and Prince Alex hint at some off-camera backstory and his attitude when dealing with them is both deferential as a soldier and a lot more low key than you would expect given his 'BLASTMASTER' entrance.

Blastinus posted:

I have to wonder why you guys were just standing to the right during this obvious attack. Not a very proactive cast, this bunch.
Clearly they were as flabbergasted as Idura at Dekar. Dude called Idura out on his villainous monologue to stop him from teleporting away and then took it in the wrong direction completely!
Who does that? (Dekar)

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Foomy finally, FINALLY washes off all of those suds from that bath he was taking in the Foomy Woods. That's about the best thing I can think of for him becoming the a Nine-tailed fox.

Also Dekar being Dekar and foiling/annoying all of Idura's silly plans :allears:
The Dungeon is a bit of padding but it has some interesting puzzles and it gives you the Thunder Axe so I don't really mind it, plus it sets up some things for later.

I really like the Thunder Axe even if sometimes I forget it's in here and have to come back for it. Now we just need someone who can use it.

Unlike Camu who had a clear goal and a plan to accomplish it, Idura seems to be more middle management and 'I solve all my problems by sending ineffectual minions to do my bidding!' Only he has none of the je ne ses quoi of other villians that do so (Venture Bro's The Monarch comes to mind.)

Libluini posted:

How about Legna? (It's angel backwards.)

This is perfect and has my vote.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
That's sort of par for the course of Natsume translations. Good localization but varying quality. They probably didn't do as many QA passes as they should.

Tia in the Remake is pretty interesting since she can do a lot of neat things combining the hook shot and the boxing glove. She's not as mobile as Maxim (I never got hit by the bubbles as him) but is a bit faster at attacking to make up for it, plus a longer range.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
The depicted chap is Mr. Torgue, in charge of making such guns as 'a Gun that shoots swords, that explode into more swords! WHICH THEN EXPLODE!'

Anyway, hello Dekar! He's pretty much 'Guy +1.' Everything Guy does, Dekar does better. He hits stuff better, has more health etc. Compare their stats: Guy's ATP is only higher because of the Gades blade. Stick that on Dekar and let the :unsmigghh: begin!
Note the Guts stat too. Guts roughly correlates to how a character gains IP, so he's also better at throwing out strong IP's more often. Like Octo-attack!

Cursed weapons in Lufia are nice, since they tend to get tend to get overall better when uncursed (there are some Notable Exceptions though.) The Lethal Sword while cursed I think has a very good critical rate and does more damage with criticals.
The only one I can every remember was Lufia 1's Lucky Blade. Massive ATP (+400 or so when other weapons at that stage give less than 100) but you can barely hit with it.

The Monster Races are just inane. Pick the teleporting skeleton, run to the right, retry if another monster gets there before the skeleton teleports in. There's a good idea behind it but the execution is lacking, unlike a lot of other one-off gimmicks in the game.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Darth TNT posted:

It always seemed like such a weird decision to suddenly drop both girls from the party.

Can...can he learn spells?

It can make a certain kind of sense if you think about it.
1. They fought Gades before and got their butts kicked by him (It's better if you do win that fight because it makes Gades seem stronger from the character's perspective.)
2. Maxim's right about Selan's role with Parcelyte and he's making sure things go well if he fails. He's not counting on Iris to bail him out again.
3. He cares enough about Selan/Tia that he doesn't want them to either see him/them die.

Granted my gut reaction was Maxim trying to protect them so the scene is still rather awkward in my books.

And no. Guy not doing anything with spell IP's is likely an oversight with him considering every other character in the game has a casting animation. Dekar shares a spell list with Guy: He doesn't have one. He can't learn any spells or cast anything non-IP.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

mauman posted:

14 levels behind Guy and Dekar's STILL stronger :psyduck:

I like both Dekar and Guy, but it kinda annoys me that Dekar is so much better at what Guy's Schtick is supposed to be.

Also, I remember getting this to this point in the game and going "Holy crap this guy is awesome".

Then my brain caught up to me and I thought "HOLY CRAP!! My healers just bailed!!".

Dekar has his downside in that magic tears big chunks of health off of him, which is offset in that Dekar has the hugest guts so he's got plenty of chunks to spare. It's more of a downside in the main side-area of the game and he's still absolutely great there.

As for the lack of healing I thought the Game had taken care of that cleverly until I fired up my game and double checked. Nope, Maxim's still stuck with Strong for healing :psyduck:
However the game still handles it well: Most of the enemies in the tower only do physical damage to single targets and even Maxim's Strong can patch that up no problem. Plus you've got two killdozers so there shouldn't be any issue.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Between Dekar, Guy, Maxim and their IP's this battle is really simple: It's mostly a damage race in your favor.
Dekar with the Thunder Axe doing it's IP of Thunderball does like, 600 damage or so against him. Octo-Strike can get up to 800 IIRC. Gades simply doesn't last long against that kind of onslaught.

As for the Tower Device I'm not certain if Gades made the whole thing up just as insurance against Maxim and Co. or that Seim Island was actually sinking and the turning it off part was more of Gades' insurance. I could theorize how it works via manipulating tectonic plates with Gades' destructo-power (also half-explaining how easy the battle is: your party is stronger than it was fighting a weakened Gades) but the Game doesn't do that so it's mostly just a thought exercise.
Regardless he failed on both counts and so the journey ends.

I also like the long scene where Maxim and Selan get married, Tia acknowledges her affection of Maxim is more a dream than reality, Dekar shows another facet of his character while still being Dekar and Guy and Jesse show a parallel of what Maxim x Tia could have been.

Then the Year of Peace where we get a summary of things and a proper subversion of the 'show, don't tell' storytelling maxim is used: we get told (through dialogue) a slice of events happening for them for each season before Idura shows up and does what Idura does best: Teleporting and being a jerk.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Lufia 1's doesn't have a default name as far as I'm aware, you go straight to a 5/6 character naming prompt on hitting Initial.

There's nothing wrong with stereotypes. If anything the original game did the same too only it rounded out and developed them more than the DS game did. Mainly because the DS game cut a bunch of filler and did enough things differently.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
I got lost in this tower dungeon a lot as a kid, though it wasn't the door puzzle that did it (I tried walking into the door after standing on the button, noted that there was an extra space and went from there.)
It was the layout. For some reason I kept going around in circles because I missed the ladder button and ended up way overleveled for Idura.

At least we actually get to fight him this time! Pity he's 'like Camu, but weaker.' Idura relies too much on his Groupie Summons (now even easier to take out with multi-target spells!) and their decent physical hits to supplement Idura Thunder and Plasma Blaster's damage against two people with passable MGR.
Compared to Camu who was a legitimate threat all by himself. Idura's only bad if you let him get and keep out 3 groupies.

I think the Fire ring and Bolt ring further reduce the damage taken (Plasma Blaster is fire) so he's really a chump.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Iris is turning into something of an unreliable narrator/seer at this point. Because Lufia 1 happened there's a bunch of things that she's hinted at to point to that timeline, but there's also this whole 'Maxim was supposed to die in that Tower' bit that's new yet wholly believable.

There's clearly a bunch of stuff she's not telling us (aside from things like her propensity to teleport akin to Idura) and a bunch of stuff she's probably lying about as well.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Rabbi Raccoon posted:

True, I didn't think of it that way. She could very well be saying what needs to be said. Although I do like the implication that Maxim wasn't supposed to knock up anyone. I wish they'd played with that more throughout the series.

They sorta do/don't. I think of it as a meta explanation for why the Sinistrals keep coming back.

PFlats posted:

One of the things I like about this game is that the Mysterious Plot Advancer decides to get attached and ignore her duty. It's way better than, say, Leknaat.

Iris is a different take on that archetype than Leknaat but she is definitely a more interesting one. Suikoden 5 tried to have a Mysterious Plot Person who moves things along except she stays mysterious and is annoying about it (you annoy me Zara, I will annoy you with ninja detectives! :argh:) whereas we will definitely learn some things about Iris later.

Overall she's pretty well done.

Darth TNT posted:

The thing that bothers me about Camu and Idura is their existence. You have Gades the Sinistral of destruction and then you have some other Sinistrals that all embody some aspect. So what are Camu and Idura? They teleport like the Sinistrals and work with them, but that's alll they have in common with them. Are they lesser Sinistrals or something? Is there a whole race of Sinistrals?

Every self-respecting villian has to have some minions! (even if they are Idura.)
The latter two points have merit though simply because of the prologue and Arek the Absolute. I don't think they're actual Sinistrels though, but they've certainly gained power from them. Like the spell Warp 2: Teleport anywhere you want! Way better than the store bought Warp!

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
It's not! In fact the Ancient Cave dungeon here was pretty much the prototype/preview of all of the dungeons in The Legend Returns. They are all procedurally generated and that's on a Gameboy Color Cartridge. (Granted none of them are as large/deep as the Ancient Cave here but still.)

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
The latter's only true because they get full access to the most powerful spells while Selan only gets partial access.

Otherwise she fits the Magic-based Swordswoman pretty well.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Tendronai posted:

I blocked that entire mine cart thing from my memory, please disregard anything I may have said about the DS game being good.

Hey it is good. Except for that mine cart section.

I'd say most of the problem with it is that you need some pretty pinpoint timing and the mine cart jumps with tank controls. You don't get as much air as you think you do and you only have a second or two to react to the pattern Berty & Betty lay out.
Normally I'm good at pattern following/rhythm stuff (honed in the fires of Elite Beat Agents) but it took me a good 10 or so falls before I got to the synchronization part.

Which fixes the reaction time problem by switching up the view. Still fell off getting used to the cart's jumps. :argh:

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Good lord your blue chest luck for those first 25 levels.

I'll echo the 'use it' posts but with a caveat: Only Selan can equip the good stuff.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

KataraniSword posted:

Also, yes, Dekar's ultimate weapon is named after him. It seems like the sort of thing that would only believably happen with a character like Dekar.

The real question is: How in the world does it end up where we snag it in the story?
My preferred answer is: 'It ended up there after Dekar botched a Blastmaster while perfecting it.'

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Alxprit posted:

I never actually played the Ancient Cave because I just assumed it wouldn't really be helpful / fun compared to the rest of the game. I can see its appeal though, and might try it if I ever wanna get up the nerve to play it again. Although, farming for some good blue chest items on the first 20 floors or so could be useful on a first visit outside of Gift mode... as seen here with Selan's newfound POWER.

That's generally what I did before Gift Mode. Go in once, take any neat things that you get (my blue chest luck is usually horrible) and then continue the game.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Idura just cannot handle Dekar at all :allears:
Recognize an obvious trap, give a rousing speech, fall into the same trap, bust out of it anyway.
Alas he does not get the girl. Jesse is sort of the only thing Guy has over Dekar so I can see why 'romance' would be their silly head-butting competition.

Idura's pretty bad here. With four characters and only a marginal increase in HP he just doesn't have any staying power even if you don't grab crazy Ancient Cave loot. Not even his Follower/Henchmen can help him. At least he beat up a bunch of boats though!

I never knew about the Multi-Sword but Absorb's pretty awesome. I tended to not need it though, instead using items to restore MP. Barely used any of them too.
I've gotten Samu Jewels before from the later enemies. They're alright but you're also closing in on other jewels that tend to be better.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Carbon dioxide posted:

It sounds rather useful to be able to stop bosses from using magic altogether.

Right, but as Blastinus said they have the AI to do other things than cast spells that they have no MP for and lots of bosses have special no-MP moves.
Idura's the notable exception because of his Idura Thunder. You can easily make him whiff most of his turns since he's really hesitant to normally attack and summon henchmen.

There's only a few bosses that actually hit hard with magic and one of them is because it's casting the Death Spell of the game on your party tanking it's accuracy anyway.

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EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Libluini posted:

This, but iBlow

Works for me!

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