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Incendiary Pig posted:As much as I hate to say it, Jon Jones has usurped Anderson's crown as GOAT (in my opinion.) I don't think this is a reasonable claim at all. If consistently winning against guys who are just not quite good enough would make Jones GOAT, then Aldo blows his doors off with what he's done. I think at the end of their careers Jones has the potential to be ahead of Aldo, but he's not there yet. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 21:05
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Bundt Cake posted:Rankings are really sweet but lets just say there have been a lot of great fighters and there have been guys who have been dominant champions for different stretches and its impossible to quantify greatness in some way to come up with a definitive hierarchy, and because there have been so many great fighters over two and half decades its stupid to just blanket that two guys who went on great runs during the peak of the UFC's popularity are indisputably the best and its ignorant to suggest otherwise is annoying and limits conversation to Joe Rogan talking points With GSP that's arguably true. With Anderson, it isn't. If you are judging GOATness by a period of absolute dominance, nobody can even compare to him and it's absurd to suggest otherwise. For years he beat down his opponents any way he wanted, and only one person managed to even slightly threaten him. He had one tough fight, and in the rematch he destroyed the man. If you judge GOATness by absolute ability, then it will be decades before the GOAT is ever anyone who isn't currently active at the time of discussion. Do you really want to think about what would happen if Nog in his prime tried to fight today's Velasquez or Werdum? Can you imagine what Hendricks or Lawler would do to Matt Hughes face? Basically, you have to tell us how you judge who is the GOAT before the absurdity of claiming it's anyone from the PRIDE era can be properly exposed.
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Jan 4, 2015 21:26
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Bundt Cake posted:Nog beat Werdum and Hughes was champ while Lawler was coming up. They would've beaten them then, and the younger guys would beat them now. So you're just going to continue to refuse to concretely state how you're judging them so you can waffle around as you need to make your ridiculous argument. Got it.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:02
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fatherdog posted:Nobody in this argument so far has stated any concrete criteria for GOAT, so how about you actually state some yourself before you harp on bundt about it Already did. K8.0 posted:If you are judging GOATness by a period of absolute dominance First one is unquestionably Anderson, any other argument is silly. The second one is my standard for GOAT. If you took a time machine and held a tournament between all the best fighters in history in a given division at their peak, the guy who would win is the best ever in that division. Once you nail down who is the best of all time at each weight, then you can start making the more subjective P4P comparison. In a sport as rapidly evolving as MMA, it's loving retarded to argue that anyone who isn't the best right now can be considered the GOAT.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:33
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Jones never said coke was the only thing keeping him from abusing his children. Riddle is a retard who deserved to get fired.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:31
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Many elite athletes play a variety of sports and then focus on the one where they'll probably make the most money. The desire for competition is rarely tied to a specific aspect of someone's life, competitive people want to dominate at everything they do. While there are plenty of great athletes in wrestling, how many of them go into MMA? Not loving many. Most people just move on after college because they aren't retarded and realize that MMA is a good way to ruin your body for piss all money. Most people who aren't stupid and who have the kind of grit and drive to be a national wrestling champion can channel that into making plenty of money without having to sacrifice their health. Both Jones and his brothers say he's the worst athlete out of the three, but neither Arthur nor Chandler is a superstar level NFL player the way Jon dominates in MMA. It doesn't matter how you look at it, your claim is ridiculous. MMA will not draw very many of the world's best athletes until people start being confident that they can fight for a few years and make enough money to never really care about it again.
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Jan 24, 2015 19:01
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Bundt Cake posted:Your whole post is based on really ridiculous garbage, but this has to be the dumbest point. No one in a team sport dominates like Jon. No one wins every game by themselves. its impossible. Arthur and Chandler aren't skill position players, so theres really almost no chance theyd be a superstar in football. Their athleticism doesn't even enter in to why being a football player and an MMA fighter are different. Stop being deliberately stupid, of course I'm talking relative to the sport. Chandler and Arthur aren't even close to being the best players in their roles. Jon is at worst one of the top five fighters in all of MMA. There is a huge gap in their relative performance in their sports despite the fact that they all agree Jon is the worst athlete, hell the worst wrestler of the three.
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Jan 24, 2015 19:28
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Bundt Cake posted:Your points dont even support your argument In MMA there are an extremely small number of people making enough money to work for a few years and then retire. Jon happens to be one of them. What I said, people need to be quite certain that a career in MMA will make them retirement level money before most people will consider it. Chandler and Arthur were pretty much guaranteed to make enough money to retire the moment they signed NFL contracts. With Jon that was far from the case, he had to destroy everyone he faced and promote himself very well to get rich. Jose Aldo is probably going to get rich now but only because an Irish man who is really good at promoting himself is really helping him out, and I would argue Aldo is extremely comparable to Jon in terms of his MMA career performance. fatherdog posted:Also I'm curious as to what people think being a "good athlete" actually means in terms of physical qualities, because Floyd Mayweather, Matt Lindland, and Mark Henry are all objectively elite athletes and I would struggle to think of a single physical quality they have in common. You're right that there are different kinds of athletes and certainly not every elite athlete can be good at every sport, but to imply there isn't a ton of crossover is ridiculous. We've seen plenty of that in very different sports outside of MMA.
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Jan 24, 2015 19:45
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:You're really wrong about this too. Most NFL guys are drafted and play a couple years as filler and then are kicked to the curb for cheaper new draftees. Only the true stars stick around and make the kind of crazy money that means they never work again. Signing an NFL contract doesn't even remotely guarantee "retirement-level money". Yeah there are guys who get signed to football teams and then dumped, there are always going to be lower level guys in any sport, practice guys, backups, etc. We're talking about guys who have the kind of physical talent and drive to compete at a high level, that's the whole discussion. Jon and his brothers are good comparisons because they're brothers who grew up together, did a lot of the same poo poo and are similarly gifted. Aside from injury Chandler and Arthur were going to make at least decent money in the NFL once they made it that far. They aren't getting JJ Watt money, but in the NFL you don't have to be a top paid guy to earn retirement money. In MMA you pretty much do, which is why MMA is a poo poo career - it's a really bad gamble. Also I would like to note that while people keep overlooking this, there are plenty of ways to make money in life outside of athletic competition. Even most NCAA wrestling champions don't go into MMA, because it's a lovely loving career. Sure, plenty of them still wouldn't even if MMA paid well because they don't want to get punched in the face or lack an aptitude for aspects of MMA that would be important in their weight class, but to claim that the lack of money isn't costing MMA many elite athletes is completely loving absurd and indefensible in every way. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jan 24, 2015 |
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Jan 24, 2015 21:09
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Bundt Cake posted:Most college football players dont go into the NFL. Honestly not totally reading posts anymore but Im pretty sure its a good point for me to make. There are absolute boatloads of college football players, most of them are not good. NCAA D1 champion wrestlers ARE good. Yet again you make a deliberately ridiculous comparison.
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Jan 24, 2015 21:12
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Gregor Samsa posted:He's like a less endearing, more creative Marshawn Lynch. Don't even try to make this comparison. Nick is a turd of a human being. Marshawn just doesn't like the scumbag sports media. I really can't think of anyone like Nick in any other sport, which is why his endless idiocy is so entertaining.
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Jan 28, 2015 18:22
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