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 Command & Conquer (retroactively renamed Tiberium Dawn) is one of the most iconic real time strategy games, widely considered to be a foundation of the genre that exists today. It built on Westwood's excellent Dune 2 and included a whole bunch of new things like full motion cutscenes. I'm planning to work my way through the early games and maybe the entire series. The schedule I'm working to will be 2-3 updates a week. I'm using the CNC Gold 1.06 patch with cnc-ddraw to stretch the resolution and run in a window. I've extracted the videos using XCC Utilities and then converted them from vqa using handbrake (which uses ffmpeg [which has a module for vqa]). vqa is interesting, Westwood made it themselves and it has a somewhat unique approach to keyframes. There are a lot of gimmicky things you can do in this game but I'll try to avoid them, but I do intend to show them. Spoilers are discouraged, but given this game is 20 years old there shouldn't be too many surprises. USE SPOILER TAGS While for many missions there are alternate map choices, some of them don't make a noticeable difference. I'll show the ones that unique in detail, and ones that are similar with a brief overview.  Intro video The intro video is someone just sort of flipping through TV channels, and on some channels there's static and the faction logos bleeding through. The sciencey and military videos have the gdi logo whereas the financial and desert channels have the nod logo.  "At least your mother tipped well" The plot is about the Global Defense Initiative, basically a global military organisation funded by the United Nations, and their conflict with the Brotherhood of Nod, a quasi-terrorist organisation with strong religious overtones over something called tiberium. The music in this game is amazing, I highly recommend you seek it out. Note: Read the dissections at your own risk, they might ruin the game for you.  GDI  Forum post Off-site SS post - {scg01ea dissection} Forum post Off-site SS post - {scg02ea dissection} Forum post Off-site SS post - {scg03ea dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg04ea dissection & scg4wa dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg04wb dissection - Added info on trigger linking}  Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg05wa dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg05ea/scg5eb & scg5wb dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg06ea dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg07ea dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg08ea dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg08eb dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg09ea dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg10ea & scg10eb dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg11ea dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg12ea dissection & scg12eb dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg13ea/eb dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scg14ea dissection} Forum Post scg15ec Off-site SS post - {scg15ea dissection & scg15ec dissection} Forum Post scg15eb Off-site SS post - {scg15eb dissection} NOD  Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scb01ea dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scb02ea dissection} Forum Post Off-site SS post - {scb02eb dissection} {scb03ea dissection scb03eb dissection} {scb04ea dissection} {scb04eb dissection} {scb05ea dissection}         Fan mail The original DOS installer I had a PM some months ago from Squish with him having fun with nuke targeting. Here's the video, I've had to sit on this until now for the sake of avoiding spoilers. Spookydonut fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Mar 27, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 10:19
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 GDI Mission One Off-site screenshot post.  Are you picking this up? Good. We get introduced to Sheppard, the GDI's golden boy and he throws us in the poo poo straight away. quote:Are you picking this up? Good. Spookydonut fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 10:21
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sweet. we need more RTS lps.
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Jan 25, 2015 10:33
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Ah, this brings back memories of me playing it... a couple months ago. The first decade was the best collection.
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Jan 25, 2015 10:39
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One little issue: you want to place the comment pertaining to a screenshot under it, not above it. It's rather confusing reading about the barracks placement and looking for it on a screenshot that doesn't have it. That being said, this is nostalgia overload for me. The CnC series was of the games I grew up with and have a lot of fond memories. Also note that the minigunner on the in-game icon is clearly holding something that is most definitely not a minigun. Well, that or he's got some serious musculature.
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Jan 25, 2015 11:09
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anilEhilated posted:One little issue: you want to place the comment pertaining to a screenshot under it, not above it. It's rather confusing reading about the barracks placement and looking for it on a screenshot that doesn't have it. The nod infantry supposedly is meant to be using M-16s, as are the GDI troops towards the end of the war.
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Jan 25, 2015 11:48
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anilEhilated posted:Also note that the minigunner on the in-game icon is clearly holding something that is most definitely not a minigun. Well, that or he's got some serious musculature. It always amused me because even as a kid I knew those dudes weren't holding miniguns. It's pretty much a giant and hilarious example of the developers not having any idea about real military hardware. It's something that's not seen as much these days as FPS proliferation have at least made it so that everyone knows the difference between an AR, an SMG and a loving minigun by the time they're 7. Anyways, looking forward to this. Sucking horribly at C&C95 was a huge part of my childhood.
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Jan 25, 2015 15:32
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Alkydere posted:It always amused me because even as a kid I knew those dudes weren't holding miniguns. It's pretty much a giant and hilarious example of the developers not having any idea about real military hardware. It's something that's not seen as much these days as FPS proliferation have at least made it so that everyone knows the difference between an AR, an SMG and a loving minigun by the time they're 7. I bet if I researched I'd find this guy was an employee at Westwood. 
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Jan 25, 2015 15:43
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Alkydere posted:It always amused me because even as a kid I knew those dudes weren't holding miniguns. It's pretty much a giant and hilarious example of the developers not having any idea about real military hardware. It's something that's not seen as much these days as FPS proliferation have at least made it so that everyone knows the difference between an AR, an SMG and a loving minigun by the time they're 7.
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Jan 25, 2015 15:52
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No bets. The cast of C&C95 was almost entirely the dev team having fun in front of cameras. Kane was originally just the manager who could ham it up the best so he got to be the big bad.
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Jan 25, 2015 15:55
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I love C&C, though I only got chance to play the first few missions of the original. Any chance you could transcribe the briefing videos? Youtube is a pain on my tablet.
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Jan 25, 2015 16:27
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inflatablefish posted:I love C&C, though I only got chance to play the first few missions of the original. Yeah sure.
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Jan 25, 2015 16:51
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 GDI Mission Two Off site screenshot post  Time for a briefing on your enemy after you just fought them. Wait what does this guy want? quote:Good job with the beachhead commander. Spookydonut fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 16:47
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This game is really loving hard. Some of the limited unit missions are just absurd... Looking forward to seeing how they're supposed to be done.
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Jan 26, 2015 19:29
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I was actually just thinking of replaying this due to the nostalgia trip I'm getting from Grey Goo, which was developed by Petroglyph Games and you can very much feel that it was made by the people who made C&C. This + Tiberian Sun are 2 of my favorite RTS games ever, and I think that Kane has a large part of why I love these 2 games so much. 3 just didn't have the same feel to it(probably because by that point the people at Westwood had quit and had formed Petroglyph), and then the series just got shelved(no, there wasn't another game in the series, shut up).
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Jan 26, 2015 19:59
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Just a reminder that EA, in a strange act of generosity, made C&C, C&C 2 and Red Alert freeware a few years ago. Their own site seems to be down currently, but there are still plenty of other places for you to pick it up! http://www.fileplanet.com/107766/0/section/Game-Clients/
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Jan 27, 2015 12:09
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THE BAR posted:Just a reminder that EA, in a strange act of generosity, made C&C, C&C 2 and Red Alert freeware a few years ago. Their own site seems to be down currently, but there are still plenty of other places for you to pick it up! What about the sound tracks? I believe they released them separately at one point so it might not be okay for me to release them. At some point I'll rip out all the sound effects because they're great.
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Jan 27, 2015 13:09
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Spookydonut posted:What about the sound tracks? I believe they released them separately at one point so it might not be okay for me to release them. You can find all the sound files in theme packs for Windows and such, but I haven't the foggiest whether that's legal or not.
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Jan 27, 2015 13:45
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Spookydonut posted:What about the sound tracks? I believe they released them separately at one point so it might not be okay for me to release them. You can stream the soundtracks on Frank Klepackis site, so you could link to that when appropriate?
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Jan 27, 2015 13:54
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THE BAR posted:You can find all the sound files in theme packs for Windows and such, but I haven't the foggiest whether that's legal or not.  This is sounds.mix containing all the sound effects like minigunners firing, grenades exploding etc. Trizophenie posted:You can stream the soundtracks on Frank Klepackis site, so you could link to that when appropriate? Yeah so it's definitely got the original versions on itunes, it's *possibly* legal to post the in-game versions which are of a 'poorer' quality. In other news I've got the next 2 updates done already, I'll post the next one tomorrow. Spookydonut fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 14:30
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 GDI Mission Three Off site screenshot post Mission Briefing quote:I know I promised more deep background on Kane and NOD but there will be time for that later. Bonus I'm going to be showing the alternative missions after all, it's pretty easy to do. Spookydonut fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 10:46
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The AI does not have infinite cash, but it gets 10x the amount you get when selling buildings. And the AI usually have full refineries and silos on all campaign maps.
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Jan 28, 2015 11:39
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The AI also gets a higher amount of cash per harvester load than the player. I believe that a single AI harvester will fill up all of its refineries and silos (no matter how many it has), although I might remember that incorrectly, but it is at least enough to completely fill two refineries and four silos, amounting to a minimum of 7000 credits. Compare that to the relatively paltry 700 credits a human player gets.
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Jan 28, 2015 15:28
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 GDP: Negligible? That's a bit mean....
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Jan 28, 2015 16:03
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Timmy_mdn posted:The AI also gets a higher amount of cash per harvester load than the player. I believe that a single AI harvester will fill up all of its refineries and silos (no matter how many it has), although I might remember that incorrectly, but it is at least enough to completely fill two refineries and four silos, amounting to a minimum of 7000 credits. Compare that to the relatively paltry 700 credits a human player gets. Well that certainly confirms a lot of suspicions I've had in the past. The best strategy then is to take out their harvesters as early as possible. Fangz posted:
Wait until the NOD campaign, set in Africa.
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Jan 28, 2015 16:04
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If the AI works as it did in Red Alert with rebuilding structures you can prevent it from doing so by parking a unit on the spot completely blocking placement. One of the missions in RA was made a lot easier by grabbing a group of submarines at the start, circling the island, blowing up the allied naval yard and parking a sub at its location. 
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Jan 28, 2015 16:52
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Timmy_mdn posted:The AI also gets a higher amount of cash per harvester load than the player. I believe that a single AI harvester will fill up all of its refineries and silos (no matter how many it has), although I might remember that incorrectly, but it is at least enough to completely fill two refineries and four silos, amounting to a minimum of 7000 credits. Compare that to the relatively paltry 700 credits a human player gets. Of course, this means that if you can find a set of silos you find it reasonably easy to capture, you can then sell them and watch as the AI rebuilds and refills them for you to capture again, thereby acquiring more money than you are ever particularly likely to need without going to the trouble of harvesting yourself. Also, the approach in that mission reminded me somewhat of Grey Hunter's approach to land warfare in his War in the Pacific threads ("keep on attacking lads, we're sure to break them this time"). Ah well. I know the level of play is going to improve, simply because playing like that won't get you through the next mission...
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Jan 28, 2015 21:21
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Ilanin posted:Of course, this means that if you can find a set of silos you find it reasonably easy to capture, you can then sell them and watch as the AI rebuilds and refills them for you to capture again, thereby acquiring more money than you are ever particularly likely to need without going to the trouble of harvesting yourself. Is that the time he got the entire British fleet sunk or something? It's interesting to see someone play this in kind of the opposite way I do, where I always just fend off attacks until I can attack with overwhelming force. I also never relied on just masses of grenadiers due to the whole chain reaction thing.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:32
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Sinking the Royal Navy is Grey's approach to sea warfare, yes. On land he shows two habits which were both on display here - not quite bringing enough troops to do the job, and persisting with a plan longer than one really ought to when it's not working. Massing grenadiers is an interesting one; once GDI gets better alternatives they can be avoided, but at this stage in the game there's not much else you can do (I mean, you could use twice as many mini-gunners, but that costs more). I do, however, try to keep any that are almost dead from previous fights separate from full-health ones. Spookydonut's strategy would have worked fine if he'd used 5 or so more troops though...
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Jan 28, 2015 21:41
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Ilanin posted:Of course, this means that if you can find a set of silos you find it reasonably easy to capture, you can then sell them and watch as the AI rebuilds and refills them for you to capture again, thereby acquiring more money than you are ever particularly likely to need without going to the trouble of harvesting yourself. Unfortunately as I showed previously the AI cheats and shuffles as much tiberium out of the building as it can as you capture it. Next mission literally takes 3 minutes. Khisanth Magus posted:Is that the time he got the entire British fleet sunk or something? That's how I played growing up as a kid, but it's a lot more boring to watch and doesn't really show off the game the way I'd like. It's also easier if you explore and can see attacks as they're launched. Ilanin posted:Sinking the Royal Navy is Grey's approach to sea warfare, yes. On land he shows two habits which were both on display here - not quite bringing enough troops to do the job, and persisting with a plan longer than one really ought to when it's not working. I'm showing how the game works, including losing all your infantry to a grenadier dying. Mission 5 is where I start flexing and my experience shows.
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Jan 29, 2015 01:50
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Oh, C&C, cool. I always wanted to see this game played out well, and I always sucked at RTS games. I only had Red Alert back in the 90's, and back then I got stuck around mission 5-6 in either campaign. (Then cheated to at least see the end cutscenes.) Either way, I really prefer the old games to the newer, even with RA2 the graphical style went in a really weird direction. Everything in that game seems oddly squishy and bouncy, not something I want my military game to feel like. Also posting to fill up the page, the screenshot-heavy updates are killing my browser 
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Jan 29, 2015 01:58
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My only comment about the last mission is we didn't get a chance to see a comical 20+ grenadier chain reaction. Grenadiers and flamethrower soldiers in C&C95/RA are hilarious whenever you get that perfect chain reaction and lose an entire army of them in half a second.
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Jan 29, 2015 02:05
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Alkydere posted:My only comment about the last mission is we didn't get a chance to see a comical 20+ grenadier chain reaction. Grenadiers and flamethrower soldiers in C&C95/RA are hilarious whenever you get that perfect chain reaction and lose an entire army of them in half a second. Don't forget Disk Throwers in Tiberian Sun 
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Jan 29, 2015 02:10
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Don't forget Disk Throwers in Tiberian Sun Oh, did they do that too? I just remembered the fact that you could use them throw shots longer than their normal range due to the skipping mechanic. And then people took the intentional mechanic and found a way to make it so they could throw disks literally across the map.
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Jan 29, 2015 02:14
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nielsm posted:Also posting to fill up the page, the screenshot-heavy updates are killing my browser This is what I was afraid of, I might move them to the SSLP test poster at the cost of losing click to expand timg.
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Jan 29, 2015 02:15
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Alkydere posted:Oh, did they do that too? I just remembered the fact that you could use them throw shots longer than their normal range due to the skipping mechanic. And then people took the intentional mechanic and found a way to make it so they could throw disks literally across the map. I'm pretty sure you couldn't throw disks across the map, however you CAN throw GRENADES across the map. It requires some pretty good timing though. I know it's possible in Red Alert, and I'm pretty sure it can happen in C&C.
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Jan 29, 2015 02:23
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I'm pretty sure you couldn't throw disks across the map, however you CAN throw GRENADES across the map. It requires some pretty good timing though. I know it's possible in Red Alert, and I'm pretty sure it can happen in C&C. Okay I'll want some sources on that. How  Spookydonut posted:This is what I was afraid of, I might move them to the SSLP test poster at the cost of losing click to expand timg. Right, not literally killing. But makes scrolling annoying, and it takes forever to load the pages with it re-checking all the pictures 
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Jan 29, 2015 02:40
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nielsm posted:Okay I'll want some sources on that. How You had to alter the target in the middle of the throwing animation, just as the grenade left the grenadier's hand. And awayyyyyyyyyy
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Jan 29, 2015 02:42
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I'm pretty sure you couldn't throw disks across the map, however you CAN throw GRENADES across the map. It requires some pretty good timing though. I know it's possible in Red Alert, and I'm pretty sure it can happen in C&C. I was pretty sure the disk throwers had the exact same thing going on in TibSun. They might have fixed the bug in RA but remember that TibSun was on an entirely new engine, plenty of room for the same bugs to appear in new ways. Of course, if you didn't feel like cheating, you could just set the disk throwers to force fire on the ground to take advantage of disks skipping across the ground to get 2-3x the range. Which was actually something the developers intended savvy players to do, especially against stationary defenses.
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Jan 29, 2015 02:48
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Captain Foo posted:You had to alter the target in the middle of the throwing animation, just as the grenade left the grenadier's hand. And awayyyyyyyyyy So, e.g. target on that sandbag 2 tiles away, and just as he's about to throw you retarget to that refinery your spy plane just revealed on the other side of the map? And you probably have to be pretty much frame exact on it.
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Jan 29, 2015 02:52
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