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Oh wow another athiest  thread. Also another where all us horrible theists are deluded idiots who are no different than some ancap trad catholic who probably reads to much hhh.
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Feb 6, 2015 01:11
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CommieGIR posted:
Mostly its you guys telling Kyrie he is wrong. Also most likely he will be posting in this one to. So you're expanding his lovely presence with this thread.
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Feb 6, 2015 01:16
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Kyrie get's his Jesus
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zeal posted:To be fair, you do believe in Iron Age fairy stories. That is pretty idiotic. Rodatose posted:Despite all our differences I think we can agree on one thing, and that is that the divinely ordained place for a crown is fixed upon the heads of kings, and the divinely ordained place for the heads of kings is fixed upon pikes http://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/tenure/text.shtml May be written by a Calvinist but he is right about Kings. Starving Autist posted:Hey all, ignore the fact that Christians kept slaves for the vast majority of their existence and justified it with scripture, but did you know the real Christians are the ones who opposed it? Gotta love how Christian apologists have to continuously revise the religion so it appears less monstrous. You're right they did, in fact we got some kickass hyms about that true saint amongst men. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6WignKYFI8
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Feb 6, 2015 16:10
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CommieGIR posted:Don't forget that we couldn't end slavery in the US without a massive civil war in which both sides of the conflict openly appealed to divine right to their cause. Wait you actually think a bunch of poo poo stains who cobbled together phrenology and choice quites from the bible were going to just let their meal tickets free? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5mmFPyDK_8
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Feb 6, 2015 16:19
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CommieGIR posted:That's a no true scotsman you are pulling there. Regardless of how baseless the claim of the Confederacy on slavery, they DID use religion as justification for their appeals. Yeah I mean its not like they litterally thought it was a holy war or anything to extinguish something that was an abomination. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-I9duc8W6Q Starving Autist posted:Well I mean if you define the terms so that your argument is a tautology, things become as easy as assuming you're just going to live forever because death is scary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrDvpChmecI Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 16:32
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CommieGIR posted:Either its a holy war, or they just like involving God a lot. Look I know you're an anti theist and everything that christianity or any religion has ever done is evil. But lets just look at the songs ofr abolitionists and their writings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrDvpChmecI They call what they do SACRED. I wonder what they mean. Oh here's a abolitionist and a slave talking. Frederick Douglas to his former "master" posted:Your wickedness and cruelty committed in this respect on your fellow creatures, are greater than all the stripes you have laid upon my back or theirs. It is an outrage upon the soul, a war upon the immortal spirit, and one for which you must give account at the bar of our common Father and Creator. Yep nothing to do with Christianity. Uncle Tom's Cabin posted:It was the first time that ever George had sat down on equal terms at any white man's table; and he sat down, at first, with some constraint, and awkwardness; but they all exhaled and went off like fog, in the genial morning rays of this simple overflowing kindness. To deny that Christianity was the main impulse behind the American and the British abolitionist movements is to deny actual history. Really its as bad as when poo poo heels like the wall builders try to turn the Founders into Dominionists.
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Feb 6, 2015 16:48
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Kaal posted:Lol you are such a troll of this thread. Thats horseshit, many in the enlightenment engaged in pre adamism and were quite willing to say that blacks, aboriginals, and semites were not equal to Europeans. Also Lol Locke? That guy was a Christian.
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Feb 6, 2015 17:03
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CommieGIR posted:That has more roots in white supremacism white was ironically also religiously motivated. Yes and the enlightenment for all its many goods also was certainly a major influence on the development of white supremacy. Starving Autist posted:If Christianity is really responsibly for ending slavery, why did it only take 1850 years? Wouldn't it have done something earlier if the scripture was actually anti-slavery? Abolitionism has no origin in Christianity, it was merely assimilated by apologists like you who are afraid of death. CommieGIR posted:I am actually not an anti-theist, shocking I know. But I'm also well aware there was more motivation behind the abolition movement then sudden appeals to religious ideals that previously were used to uphold slavery. If the shoe fits.... Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 17:12
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CommieGIR posted:
No, hey I could care less if you bring up the crusades, those were idiotic uses of religion that can be used because some poo poo stains think that Christians have to own Jerusalem. But to deny when Christians were the main motivator for good, because that somehow goes against you're religious people never do nay good narrative , shows that you really do have a problem with Christians. CommieGIR posted:An eloquent response. Well done. Yep thanks for proving my point anti theist.
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Feb 6, 2015 17:24
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CommieGIR posted:The difference between having an impact on world history and Yeah that's bullshit, Jesus has had the same kind of influence on history that Confucius or Buddha had, civilizations were all changed by those men's teachings and for an atheist to deny it shows some rather poor understanding of history. Kaal posted:Bad posts are just bad posts, there are no excuses. Trying to play the "Christianity invented everything" card just displays your own lack of historical awareness. Roman pagans had a significant impact on Christianity, yes or no? QED Julius Ceasar banned slavery in America. Also lol noone is claiming Christianity invented everything.
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Feb 6, 2015 17:28
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Sinnlos posted:Hitler did and we should. I almost think Commie has one of those simplistic views of history where everyone is only doing what they do for material gain.
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Feb 6, 2015 17:31
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CommieGIR posted:Fair enough, you're right! But considering Western thought has been far more influenced by political aspirations dressed in the clothes of religion, shouldn't we actually focus on the direct impact of the individuals that utilized his teachings and not Jesus and his 2000+ year political agenda? Yeah you're a dumb rear end. https://books.google.com/books?id=l...d=0CCUQ6AEwATgK The people who ordered the crusades actually really did think that they were fulfilling some of the book of revelation. Also the people who were abolitionists had material reasons to be against slavery right? They had material reason to risk life and limb bringing men to freedom?
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Feb 6, 2015 17:42
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CommieGIR posted:You are Miltank are the ones arguing I'm a materialist, I am not arguing from that standpoint.
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Feb 6, 2015 17:49
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Kaal posted:More like a moronic post. Anyone trying to separate Christianity from "The Cruel Romans" is living in a fairy tale. Christianity is essentially the Romanization of some fairly brutal varieties of tribal monotheism. It was a populist, suburban religion that was intentionally civilized and adopted by the Roman state. More like took over the Roman State. Also anyone with a basic knowledge of Christianity would know most of the dotrines covered in the New Testament were there by the early 2nd century. But then I am not a primitive materialist.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:00
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I worry mostly about people who deny history.
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Feb 7, 2015 02:54
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CommieGIR posted:I worry about people that paint history with broad strokes, but hey. I do to, like when someone thinks that history can be broken down into materialist wants.
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Feb 7, 2015 02:56
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Small Frozen Thing posted:I saw you posting something pretty reasonable in some other thread recently, and I was thinking "Huh, Crowsbeak... Isn't he some kind of stupid rear end in a top hat? I think I remember something like that. What if he isn't, though, and I'm just imagining bad things about random people now?" and I got kind of distressed. CommieGIR posted:I never did that, I simply argued that only viewing the overall religious value of historical figures instead of their political and historical personal values was worrying. You're comments on the crusades show otherwise.
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Feb 7, 2015 03:16
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Ocrassus posted:I think this thread should shift away from the slave trade and focus on modern day issues that many Christians throw their weight behind. Gay Marriage. I believe man and women, but then its a minor issue compared to having children going without food, and medical care and a society turn away from helping the helpless. Drug use, I think you shouldn't do drugs, but then I can see that people use drugs despite the insane war. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Feb 7, 2015 |
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Feb 7, 2015 21:30
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Who What Now posted:You believe man and women what? Are you saying you're a polygamist so long as it's one husband and multiple wives? Is this you trying to hint that you're a Mormon? I'll admit that you really made me laugh, with that one, it does sound like I am endorsing polygamy. Look I believe one man one women marriage. Now if you could prove to me that the early church allowed for the other conclusively I might change my mind. However at the same time it's at the bottom of my reasons to vote. I mean Christians should try to act on what Jesus says is most important like helping the poor. "Jesus" according to Matthew posted:And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’ Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Feb 7, 2015 |
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Feb 7, 2015 22:39
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Al Harrington posted:WOMAN Are you talking about the Greek Pedastry? Because that really is not right. Likewise the Romans I am pretty sure were not fine with men actively choosing to be the one taking it in the rear end.
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Feb 7, 2015 22:59
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Al Harrington posted:It goes back further than that: That paper seems to be ignoring the fact that the Romans very much looked upon being penetrated s some great dishonor. Also it seems to ignore that a non roman having sex with a younger roman male could get them accused of "ruining the youths reputation". The Romans generally viewed homosexuality as a power equation so to give them this "progressive" light is really rewriting history. Also before you cite Hadrian, Antonius was a foreigner and a boy, him being both made it quite alright to the Romans. Also its not as though you can blame Christians for homosexuality becoming so reviled in the western part of Rome when one considers how the germanics viewed homosexuality. Now for the unions that took place, I am fine with that, its still not marriage though. Calling it a enfraterization or a union is fine. Also as I noted I don't vote on issues relating to homosexuality because Jesus cared alot more about people being abused and the poor being downtrodden, something that still happens today despite some thinking that Jesus's teachings shouldn't apply today. Miltank posted:au contraire, it is the love of money at the root of all evil.
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Feb 8, 2015 06:06
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VitalSigns posted:We need to get rid of morality based in irrational religious beliefs or cultural programming and instead build a perfect robot with access to an ineffable superhuman moral knowledge to hand us an objective code of ethics. Should we also require that the robot would need a nano augmented human fused into it to work? Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Feb 8, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 08:13
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Starving Autist posted:The claim that Christianity ended slavery is especially hilarious when you consider that explicit approval of slavery is one of the few things the old & new testaments agree upon completely. Paul who was once called Saul, from Tarsus who chrsitians call the apostle posted:The law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
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Feb 11, 2015 01:15
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Starving Autist posted:Trading slaves is not equivalent to keeping them, a practice explicitly condoned elsewhere in the NT. But the abolitionist movement was borne out of a original movement to ban the trading of slaves.
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Feb 11, 2015 01:20
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zeal posted:And nobody's 'trading' the slaves made such by the instructions in Deuteronomy 20 "Yeshua, aka Jesus, AKA the Christ, according to Matthew" posted:38 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: Jesus being God kind of makes the whole idea of murdering your enemies a bad thing now. Now I know that didn't stop the Catholic church in the 1000s using that to justify the crusades.
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Feb 11, 2015 01:25
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zeal posted:Well those are only God's Own Rules for slaughtering the heathen far afield. For those in the promise land the terms of engagement are slightly stricter: Yep and he did and later as the Church Fathers realized all were accepted to Heaven. If God changed his mind its a good thing.
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Feb 11, 2015 01:47
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DarkCrawler posted:I don't think its stopped any Christian denomination ever, except for the Amish (and Mennonites?) I guess. Doesn't stop me from acknowledging God.
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Feb 11, 2015 02:03
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DarkCrawler posted:I guess that's a different denomination then? If he is not omniscient then it is just another fallible authority, albeit at a higher level. Maybe there are levels beyond that, after all the universe is infinitely bigger then any religious book has been able to muster. He created the Earth? He created the sky? Even at the Solar System level that is a fraction of the stuff that is out there, I've read my Genesis. He created the entire universe, so I will acknowledge him.
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Feb 11, 2015 02:21
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DarkCrawler posted:So what is stopping me then, even though I think we were raised equally Christian? According to the Bible, he created the Earth, the heaven, the sky and the waters. Where did all this stuff that is never even mentioned in the Bible comes from? What can God teach me about supernovae, about black holes or dark matter? About different forms of life that might exist out there that have nothing to do with vegetation and trees? About spacetime, about relativity, about the interaction of matter and energy? Nothing. Just the mere minuscule fraction we already know about the universe through the scientific method goes so far beyond old Mesopotamian texts - be it the Torah, the Bible or the Quran - that there is no level of comparison that could even exist between them. There is nothing to acknowledge from religion, because what we can directly observe and measure is infinitely more great. Remind where in the Bible does it say you cannot study the machine of the Universe?
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Feb 11, 2015 02:35
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DarkCrawler posted:Remind me where in the Bible does it even mention the Universe beyond Earth and the Sun? 400 billion stars in Milky Way. 500 billion galaxies. How many are mentioned? How is someone living at the time of Jesus supposed to know about them? Why would God need to talk about it? I mean would that knowledge make people be less shits to each other?
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Feb 11, 2015 02:45
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vessbot posted:Because it might give people one iota of reason to think any of the religion is true? How would telling them that their are other worlds make them believe it? zeal posted:If your god's goal was to make people be less shits to each other he probably wouldn't have commanded them to commit genocide. I don't think you understand your god very well. Well with Jesus it was. Which was his question.
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Feb 11, 2015 02:52
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Starving Autist posted:Well when they verify that stuff on their own, they might have some more faith in him. Interesting that the only thing he's willing to share is stuff that people already know and coping mechanisms for human mortality. Considering that it spread far and wide across an empire I say it worked out quite well didn't it? Plus most learned people were willing to admit there was a prime mover. DarkCrawler posted:So telling people that there is literally infinite space and resources for them to exist and giving them the means to reach them would in your opinion have achieved nothing? Of course he gave us the means, its our intelligence. Whether we use it to combine together and leave the cradle is up to us. CommieGIR posted:It'd be nice if there was something to show that he did it, instead of the natural process that we know did it. Commie Gir, of course he has working through those processes. BTW I notice how we are no longer trying to deny that Christianity was the main force behind abolitionism. Seems we now have moved to. "If Jesus didn't mention Extra Solar Planets, NO GOD." Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 03:30
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Who What Now posted:You know what God never does? Say owning people as property is wrong. loving interesting, that. Yep thats why slave traders are personally called out. That is also why manumission is suggested. Because there is nothing wring their with slavery., Its also a mystery as to why with Christianity that you have pushes to stop slavery, as say compared under platoism or aristoelism. Seriously what is it with a poster having religion that turns other posters into parodies of r/athieism. CommieGIR posted:I'm not because he agreed that the abolition movement was no doubt not exclusively Christian. Well those Gods may or may not exist they are not the prime mover, which my God is. Just read both mythologies, you'll see both acknowledge that they are not in fact the prime movers, while my God actually is said to create them and every other thing out there.
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Feb 11, 2015 04:37
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CommieGIR posted:They all have as much credibility as the other. Well, that is, very little credibility. Oh I do not doubt God has created others, that is foolish when I see the heavens. Also I wouldn't be surprised if man is the first one God has revealed its presence to.
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Feb 11, 2015 04:48
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CommieGIR posted:Why God? I'm not going to commit blasphemy by trying to give God a motive for creation.
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Feb 11, 2015 05:07
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Who What Now posted:In the bible? Because if so this never actually happens. I quoted the exact verse on the previous page.
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Feb 11, 2015 05:56
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Yet they also do not defend it do they? Also can you not deny their is ambivalence? Lets compare that to platoism or aristotelism that argued for it.
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Feb 11, 2015 06:14
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Al Harrington posted:that is all rendered irrelevant by Timothy 1:10 Actually it is especially since that verse would lead to Abolitionism that you anti theists seem to want to maintain was founded by a bunch of preadamite justifying enlightenment types. Look I understand it perfectly we all have our own little myths. Mine are that JC did do everything the Bible has, and yours are that the enlightenment was perfect. Except when it wasn't and then unlike with Church fathers its perfectly fine because of"men of their time". Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 06:27
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vessbot posted:Zeus and Odin are too contingent to create the universe, but an ape isn't? Going back in time 13+ billion years before they existed is logically possible? You should read the mythos, in neither of their respective mythos are they the God of creation, merely the kings of creation and are themselves subject to its laws. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 06:41
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Starving Autist posted:If the enlightenment sucks so much, one wonders why all its good ideas have been co-opted by Christianity and used to overwrite and erase the barbarity Christianity stood for beforehand. I never said it sucked. I just recognize it really is not some great leap that anti theists claim it was. vessbot posted:You forgot to answer how it's logically possible for a continent ape to go back in time and create the universe. Or I guess for a continent ape to become necessary? I never claimned I believed that, if you want to believe it its fine.
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Feb 11, 2015 06:50
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