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Willie Tomg posted:its so cool how the sound on this video was muted probably for "copyright" reasons oops, serves me right for selecting the clip with my laptop on mute Here's a working one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3ZNUxqo9M New page food for thought: a good chunk of global finance revolves around the pension systems that began growing in the mid 20th century. Alot of 20th century left wing solutions are about stasis and stability as a relief from the chaos of capitalism. This isn't working out, instead the focus should be on placing bounds on market forces (for example minimum and maximum employment compensation) and making the state the central 'matchmaker' for labor supply and demand. Mc Do Well fucked around with this message at 23:41 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 23:27
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May 10, 2015 19:44
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did bernie win?
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May 10, 2015 20:02
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Mofabio posted:There's absolutely no way a basic income, or establishing the government as employer of last resort (also known as Job Guarantee), will make it through congress without union power increasing. I live in a country where GMI is an actual piece of political agenda that is seriously debated in terms of whether we should experiment with it or not, and the unions are literally the instance in society that are fighting against it hardest, tooth and nail.
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May 10, 2015 21:12
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Stefu posted:I live in a country where GMI is an actual piece of political agenda that is seriously debated in terms of whether we should experiment with it or not, and the unions are literally the instance in society that are fighting against it hardest, tooth and nail. I'd like to hear more about this.
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May 11, 2015 02:04
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Do we still get points if Sanders gets a cabinet position?
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May 11, 2015 04:21
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McDowell posted:oops, serves me right for selecting the clip with my laptop on mute My favorite comment: Ric Reitz, known as "Doug" in this anti-union propaganda, is a longtime member of SAG-AFTRA (an arts and performers' union) and is actually incredibly pro-union and recognizes the incredible benefits and protection that a union can offer. In fact, he was even quoted as saying in response to his portrayal of the misinformed "team member" in this video, "Am I pro-union? Absolutely". And quite frankly, after watching this cheesy and obvious propaganda piece, how could you not?
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May 11, 2015 08:30
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McDowell posted:New page food for thought: a good chunk of global finance revolves around the pension systems that began growing in the mid 20th century. Alot of 20th century left wing solutions are about stasis and stability as a relief from the chaos of capitalism. This isn't working out, instead the focus should be on placing bounds on market forces (for example minimum and maximum employment compensation) and making the state the central 'matchmaker' for labor supply and demand.
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May 11, 2015 08:53
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If he's anything like his relative Colonel Sanders, I'd definitely vote for him. If I were a US citizen. So make that happen plz
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May 11, 2015 20:15
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Nessus posted:So instead of a pension program, you'll be assigned to a labor corvee that might sort of very broadly consider what you're trained at in the course of shipping you around to fulfill the needs of capital? There will still be leisure and retirement, but as a legal guarantee rather than a privilege for members of an organization. It makes sense for the state to employ the young to take care of the old and infirm. I'm not talking about 'corvees' and 'assignments' but rather a kind of social media platform for employers and job seekers that could start as a joint program of usajobs.gov and the IRS. Eventually if there is a big objective measure of all work demand and supply you could give people more time off. You should also place clear restrictions on trade so Eurasia and the Americas develop in parallel (more redundant manufacturing and a focus on building land infrastructure).
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May 12, 2015 00:18
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Stefu posted:I live in a country where GMI is an actual piece of political agenda that is seriously debated in terms of whether we should experiment with it or not, and the unions are literally the instance in society that are fighting against it hardest, tooth and nail. Please tell us more, I've got a huge  for GMI. I can't imagine why a union would be against it, unless your country has some special laws/circumstances I'm probably unaware of.
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May 12, 2015 01:44
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McDowell posted:There will still be leisure and retirement, but as a legal guarantee rather than a privilege for members of an organization. It makes sense for the state to employ the young to take care of the old and infirm. I'm not talking about 'corvees' and 'assignments' but rather a kind of social media platform for employers and job seekers that could start as a joint program of usajobs.gov and the IRS. Eventually if there is a big objective measure of all work demand and supply you could give people more time off. You should also place clear restrictions on trade so Eurasia and the Americas develop in parallel (more redundant manufacturing and a focus on building land infrastructure). This, all of this.
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May 12, 2015 02:09
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I found one article claiming union opposition in Belgium: http://www.basicincome.org/bien/pdf/2004Vanderborght.pdf
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May 12, 2015 02:14
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Freakazoid_ posted:Please tell us more, I've got a huge A GMI would likely cause people to be less worried about losing/quitting their job, which would reasonably weaken the institution whose remit is to placate this fear. It's the same reason scandinavian labour unions are opposed to a legalised minimum wage; the more dependent society is on a strong union, the stronger the union will be. In their defence, it's worked out very well historically, but they're getting undermined by financialisation and technology and are getting slightly panicky
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May 12, 2015 11:41
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mobby_6kl posted:If I were a US citizen. So make that happen plz If you move here today, you could be a citizen in time for the 2026 midterms!
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May 12, 2015 20:23
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Freakazoid_ posted:Please tell us more, I've got a huge It can also be used as a welfare trap intended to keep the poor from advancing in society. It fosters and exacerbates wealth inequality. If you're going to have a huge for something, have it for Basic Income, not GMI. It's a lot less problematic, cheaper to implement, harder to corrupt, and simpler to understand.Which is why this conversation started about Basic Income and Employer of Last Resort instead of GMI.
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May 13, 2015 04:51
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Freakazoid_ posted:Please tell us more, I've got a huge 1. The unions still hold lifetime full-time employment as their goal and fear that GMI would work against this goal by making it easier to hold part-time employment, do odd jobs etc. 2. The unions fear that GMI would be used to replace Finland's earnings-related benefit system, which also props union membership (even though no proposed GMI would do this, you can read more about the earnings-related allowance here http://www.kela.fi/web/en/unemployment) 3. There is some grumbling about GMI also being paid to wealthy spouses etc. You can read a bit about it here: http://www.transform-network.net/yearbook/journal-112012/news/detail/Journal/the-basic-income-debate-in-finland.html GlyphGryph posted:It can also be used as a welfare trap intended to keep the poor from advancing in society. It fosters and exacerbates wealth inequality. If you're going to have a huge I'm not sure what is meant by difference between Basic Income and GMI.
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May 13, 2015 10:13
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Stefu posted:I'm not sure what is meant by difference between Basic Income and GMI. I'd like this clarified, too. I've basically heard them used interchangeably.
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May 13, 2015 10:55
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Basic income means that every citizen is paid a certain sum, no questions asked and no strings attached. GMI has some kind of means tests or other conditions attached, which usually means that if you make less than some arbitrary cutoff point the state steps in and either pays you the difference or gives you some other kind of benefits to make up the gap. However, GMI schemes run the risk of having more or less onerous requirements which can make it difficult for people to qualify.
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May 13, 2015 12:29
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GMI is similar to basic income, if you added a tax (100% in many proposals) that only effected poor people - it can be described as a Basic Income with an extremely regressive tax policy on top of it. The important bit is the means test - and in most proposals, means tested to the point of being a rather powerful welfare trap, by penalizing work and efforts to increase wealth, but only for the lowest class. It discourages people from ever acquiring the skills and experience they'd need to escape from the trap as well. Welfare traps, as a rule, tend to leave people significantly more miserable than they were before even if they do have more money, because it cuts off opportunities for progress and improvement, a basic psychological human need. All this said, most GMI proposals aren't anywhere near as bad as a lot of the currently existing welfare systems at disempowering the poor, but there are serious concerns for most implementations that can't just be handwaved away, and I can understand why unions might be opposed. Cerebral Bore posted:Basic income means that every citizen is paid a certain sum, no questions asked and no strings attached. Some of these differences may seem trivial, but it's an area where trivial differences can lead to huge impacts in terms of class mobility and quality of life. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 17:00 on May 13, 2015 |
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May 13, 2015 16:54
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Oh, okay. In that case, I'm definitely in favour of a basic income over a GMI. I'll be sure to use that term in the future.
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May 13, 2015 20:12
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GlyphGryph posted:It can also be used as a welfare trap intended to keep the poor from advancing in society. It fosters and exacerbates wealth inequality. If you're going to have a huge There's not going to be social mobility in 20 years when we run out of jobs for everyone, so it won't matter which one gets implemented. It's silly to defend one over the other.
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May 14, 2015 03:19
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In those terms, when talking about union opposition, I was discussing basic income, not GMI.
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May 14, 2015 07:59
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bernie sanders will bring back lf!
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May 14, 2015 11:50
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Stefu posted:In those terms, when talking about union opposition, I was discussing basic income, not GMI. I'm not sure what you mean here, the proposal and even the arguments you just mentioned are very much GMI, not basic income. I'm not saying the Unions wouldn't also be opposed to basic income (from those arguments, they might actually even oppose it more), but that it isn't even on the table here.
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May 14, 2015 14:58
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I like this thread about GMI and basic income, it is a lot more interesting, honestly, than a quixotic attempt to get Bernie Sanders elected president. I like the basic income a lot, but it needs to come paired with quite a lot of consumer protections or you'll just get poor people being more ripped off than they are now. A lot of the problem of poverty living is that people overpay for what they get.
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May 14, 2015 16:24
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Nosfereefer posted:bernie sanders will bring back lf! How can I give him money?
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May 14, 2015 17:20
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imagine four bernies on the edge of a cliff
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May 14, 2015 20:34
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Humor piece about Sanders bringing the Democrats toward the left http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/27/bernie-sanders-democratic-primary-do-good quote:Liberalism’s excitement factor is certainly nowhere near what movement conservatism offers people: the emotional ride of mainlining white socioeconomic (and racial and sexual) resentment, the righteousness that comes from a paranoid sense of victimization by all government and the bizarro high of wanting to kill everyone.
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May 27, 2015 18:56
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He's right. Sanders can attack Hillary all out from the left without hurting her in the general, and may force her to make rhetorical concessions. These concessions won't make it into her policy, but could easily shift the overton window left and effect policy down the road.
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May 27, 2015 22:40
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quote:A lot of people are very excited about Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign. It's not hard to figure out why: there are a lot of those progressives out there who are very concerned about economic inequality, the rise of the super-rich, the financial industry, and the role of money in American politics.
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May 27, 2015 22:44
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Bad article doesn't recognize that cultural and social woes are a by-product of income inequality. We need to arrest lots of people to fuel prison labor schemes, we need to oppress racial minorities to explain to poor white people why they should support welfare cuts and other austerity measures. Bernie wants to address the source of the problem while others want to address the symptoms.
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May 27, 2015 23:21
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Salt Fish posted:Bad article doesn't recognize that cultural and social woes are a by-product of income inequality. White people: Your issues are literally subservient to ours. Why don't you support us?
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May 27, 2015 23:29
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For the lazy wanting the link to computer parts' quote above (not just sick burns): http://www.vox.com/2015/5/27/8671135/bernie-sanders-race
Mortley fucked around with this message at 00:22 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 00:20
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Salt Fish posted:Bad article doesn't recognize that cultural and social woes are a by-product of income inequality. We need to arrest lots of people to fuel prison labor schemes, we need to oppress racial minorities to explain to poor white people why they should support welfare cuts and other austerity measures. Bernie wants to address the source of the problem while others want to address the symptoms. We should plan for rising sea levels on the coasts even though it doesn't address the source of the problem that is global warming. There's nothing stopping Bernie from talking about mass incarceration and increased inequality. Time is a constraint, but Bernie is not the most concise individual. There's no clear division between issues of class and race either. Unionizing fast food workers is an old school labor solution to issues that primarily affects minorities. A lot of racial distrust is built upon both perceived and actual economic competition as well. Even if you just read Coates for at least the past year he's been laying out how profitable discriminating against black communities can be. Sanders is the best candidate in the race, but he's not perfect.
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May 28, 2015 00:54
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Flocons de Jambon posted:Bernie needs a gimmick. Ron Paul honestly believed in the mystical power of pure-strain gold Krugerrands. I don't know that Bernie has any equivalent beliefs. At least Kucinich had his UFO story. JUst make a big thing about him being a socialist and he'll get all the hipsters to vote for him for being ironic capitalists. Also take something from the polish fascist who say they'll be worse than the nazis have a slogan that says "marx? I'll be worse".
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May 28, 2015 01:49
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Sanders can and will bandaid his ticket with a firebrand pro-black, pro-women VP E:do black voters turn out for the primary? I did a quick search and couldn't find anything.
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May 28, 2015 01:51
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LutQHKSsy_E
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May 28, 2015 01:52
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computer parts posted:White people: Your issues are literally subservient to ours. Why don't you support us? Computer parts: actually thinks "by-product" is the same as "subservient to." Are you just playing devil's advocate or something? Because otherwise it seems you either don't understand what he wrote (which I think is only partially correct) or you're just engaging in dishonest fuckery.
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May 28, 2015 16:07
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Feather posted:dishonest fuckery. Well, it is a computer parts post, even if he is right.
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May 28, 2015 16:57
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