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Jackie Brown is a simply beautiful film, and Tarantino's best, I'd say. I go back and forth on his stuff, and don't really think he has a "better era." I like Inglorious and Django, hate Kill Bill 1 and am okay with 2, appreciate, but don't enjoy Death Proof, etc. Rodriguez seems do do well on "first" movies and not so good on sequels, if I was to rate him in any manner. It's like the "firsts" have the right balance of ridiculousness, and the followups are too far over the top. The only time that isn't the case is the El Mariachi series, where it's the third that goes too far.
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Jun 8, 2015 15:33
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I feel that exact same way about Kill Bill. I would much rather watch any of the films it's riffing on. Kill Bill was really good at convincing my friends that samurai and kung fu movies are in fact amazing. Kill Bill is QT's worst film(s) I'd say, but they are still better than most of Robert's output. I can't decide if Jackie Brown or Death Proof is my favorite QT movie though. Django and Inglorious Basterds is 3 and 4 respectively though.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:35
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I'm long past the point of caring what Robert Rodriguez does movie wise but the El Rey network is pretty good.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:42
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I really need to watch Jackie Brown again. I think my favorite Tarantino film is probably Inglourious Basterds. Every scene in that movie just works for me. I love the slow pacing of the dialogue-heavy scenes. I would love it if Rodriguez put out a movie half as good as Desperado or El Mariachi before he's done.
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Jun 8, 2015 19:07
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:I would love it if Rodriguez put out a movie half as good as Desperado or El Mariachi before he's done. Alas.
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Jun 8, 2015 19:11
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When I was a kid I started with Kill Bill and worked my way from there. I think I really loved everything he's done with the exception of Death Proof, that whole first half always made me want to kill myself. Agree that Jackie Brown is largely underrated; feels like such an incredibly long movie to get through so I could never watch it on repeat like some others. Still an amazing film, I'm always amused that De Niro is just randomly thrown in there. Inglorious Basterds is pretty high up there for me, too; whoever said it felt better than it was supposed to be is on the money because of the language, the characters, and convergence of all the loose ends. I thought Django was similarly good but less so than Basterds--the setting felt like less of a statement and more a backdrop. gently caress's sake, the story comes unwound because one of the characters literally suffers from "white guilt" at the worst moment and it only mucks things up worse. Really looking forward to Hateful 8, and even more giddy that Jennifer Jason Leigh somehow got cast in a Tarantino movie as the female lead. I really do hope he gets around to that oft-rumored "sci-fi" film because I'd love to see him handle something totally out of bounds for his style.
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Jun 8, 2015 19:14
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zandert33 posted:I'm sorry that people who don't like things you like for tangible reasons upsets you so. I never said people were horrible if they liked "Kill Bill", it has no effect on me how anybody feels about anything. For myself I don't feel it does anything better then the movies he copied off that came out 40 years ago, so it has no value to me. the douchenozzle part is that you implied that your superior knowledge of 70s Japanese cinema was why you don't like Kill Bill, and if only these plebes would watch real movies they wouldn't like that garbo you are perfectly allowed to not like kill bill, it's just when you express this opinion in a way that makes you look like a horse's rear end that I take umbrage
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Jun 8, 2015 23:20
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Justin Godscock posted:Now I need to rant on Sin City 2 for a bit because that film just bothered me. It started with Frank Miller wanting to write new stories, then he fell in love with directing and made The Spirit (bad, bad movie) and dragged his feet for a good decade THEN we got the sequel which was a total mess. Sin City 2 looked and felt like it was a 1990s direct-to-video sequel made by completely different people. It's incredible to think that it was made 9 years after the first one but looked so much worse. JGL, Eva Green, Powers Boothe, as well as Christopher Lloyd in his cameo, were all great. And that's the limit of what I can really praise about it. I also liked Machete but Machete Kills was so terrible that even Danny Trejo was hard to enjoy in it. I think Machete's reputation is a bit unfair but Machete Kills is everything people said about the first one times ten. Thundersword238 posted:Yeah, it almost makes me not want to even look at my copy of The Dark Knight Returns anymore. Holy Terror in particular was ghastly on all levels. I'm sure the title of his upcoming Batman: The Master Race is a red herring and it won't delve into what we're all expecting a Frank Miller comic with a Nazi reference in it will do.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:27
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I hated Jackie Brown when I first saw it, like it more the second time, and by the third I thought it might be just as good as Pulp Fiction. I haven't watched it in a long time, but I now have really fond memories of it. Movie grows on you.
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Jun 9, 2015 00:47
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LORD OF BUTT posted:the douchenozzle part is that you implied that your superior knowledge of 70s Japanese cinema was why you don't like Kill Bill, and if only these plebes would watch real movies they wouldn't like that garbo Yep, that's what I said. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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Jun 9, 2015 02:50
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Good Robert Rodriguez Films: El Mariachi Desperado (Quentin Tarantino is in it) His segment in Four Rooms (an anthology which QT contributes to) From Dusk Till Dawn (Has a QT script, QT is in it) Sin City (w. special guest director QT, if only for a single scene) Planet Terror (QT is in it. Produced alongside Death Proof) Bad Robert Rodriguez Films: Everything after El Mariachi that doesn't have the Tarantino touch. (Which isn't to say Tarantino is a great actor who elevates movies, but his presence on set does seem to make Rodriquez a better director) High Warlord Zog fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 03:32
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Going to throw this out here, but which does everyone like Kill Bill Part 1 or Part 2? I think I've only really seen the first part once or twice but have rewatched the second part more than a lot. I'm not sure why, but it's probably the fusion of Pei Mei wuxia martial arts and gritty Spaghetti western with Bud and all. Also, the fight between Beatrix and Elle is a much better fight than between her and O-Ren.
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Jun 9, 2015 03:55
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I hated part 2 the first time I saw it, then when I watched it next, back to back with part 1, I loved it. In fact I liked part 1 way more too. That's the way to watch those films.
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Jun 9, 2015 04:03
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Part 2 is better because Pai Mei owns, but I really like the Crazy 88 fight in Part 1.
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Jun 9, 2015 04:08
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All things being equal, we all owe Tarantino our infinite appreciation for introducing us to Christoph Waltz. But also Inglorious Basterds and Django are the high point of the second phase of his career.
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Jun 9, 2015 04:13
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I think the criticisms of Tarantino being a mere creator of pastiches literally has everything to do with Kill Bill part 1, where it's the closest to being true. I mean, you've got Reservoir Dogs, followed by Pulp Fiction, followed by Jackie Brown - that's an unbelievable streak. Then Kill Bill came out. And then Grindhouse/Deathproof as a pseudo-followup. It's too juicy a target to say that somehow those first three films were flukes and that he'd since devolved. No one can write dialog like Tarantino, and no one can direct actors well enough to actually pull off and elevate his crazy dialog better than Tarantino. Regardless of if he ever makes a movie as good as Jackie Brown again, he's still an amazing combination writer/director. And really, even if Kill Bill isn't his greatest work, the sheer degree of experimentalism in it is admirable. I feel like it's easy to forget what a weird fuckin movie Kill Bill is. Periodiko fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 04:17
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MinibarMatchman posted:Death Proof, that whole first half always made me want to kill myself. Agreed. The worst was seeing the whole Grindhouse feature in the theater and going from Planet Terror which got everyone really amped up and then the fantastic trailers between films, into Death Proof. The movie has it's moments and the car action is great but it's kind of a snore, otherwise.
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Jun 9, 2015 20:21
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I agree that for the theater run it should have been Death Proof before Planet Terror, but Death Proof is a way better movie.
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Jun 9, 2015 20:41
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I love everything by QT, but Basterds is definitely the highlight. I used to be into Rodriguez, but then I realized I haven't liked a single movie he's put out since...Desperado.  It just sort of feels like he lost his way. Even his kids movies are janky and strange in ways that don't quite work. Although Spy Kids does have the incredible line, "Do you think God stays in his Heaven because he too lives in fear of what he has created?" muttered by Steve Buscemi.
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Jun 9, 2015 23:26
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:I love everything by QT, but Basterds is definitely the highlight. I used to be into Rodriguez, but then I realized I haven't liked a single movie he's put out since...Desperado. The first Sin City was pretty cool but I haven't watched it since I was in high school.
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Jun 9, 2015 23:48
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So I think I can articulate why I'm not only cool with Kill Bill being made up of pastiches, but actually kind of dig that aspect. The thing that makes Kill Bill interesting to me is, it's not just drawing from one source. It's basically a pastiche of everything Tarantino likes: you have jidaigeki films like Lady Snowblood and Lone Wolf and Cub being homaged, the Pai Mei character from Executioners from Shaolin literally shows up played by Gordon Liu, there's spaghetti western homages all over the loving place, Vol. 2 is a neo-noir for about half of the movie, Elle is modeled after the main character from Thriller: A Cruel Picture in appearance, and there's paraphrases from Yojimbo, Coffy, Wrath of Khan, and The Driver, just off the top of my head. It's "hackish," in a sense, but really, it's the film equivalent of something like Endtroducing by DJ Shadow. It wears its influences on its sleeve, but what makes it different from something like Machete is that it uses these influences: it doesn't just clone other movies thoughtlessly, it synthesizes them into a coherent, compelling, somewhat unique story. When something from another movie pops up in Kill Bill, it's because it legitimately fits there, not just because Tarantino wanted to flex his nerd boner. WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jun 10, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:52
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The Duke posted:Agreed. The worst was seeing the whole Grindhouse feature in the theater and going from Planet Terror which got everyone really amped up and then the fantastic trailers between films, into Death Proof. The movie has it's moments and the car action is great but it's kind of a snore, otherwise. I can't remember who said it but Grindhouse was great because Planet Terror was what people thought exploitation movies were and Death Proof was the real deal. It's uneven but that end car chase was masterful.
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Jun 10, 2015 00:37
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:The first Sin City was pretty cool but I haven't watched it since I was in high school. I tried to watch it with a friend who had never seen it a while back. We didn't even finish the first story before we both totally lost interest and turned it off. It has not aged well.
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Jun 10, 2015 04:49
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TheJoker138 posted:I tried to watch it with a friend who had never seen it a while back. We didn't even finish the first story before we both totally lost interest and turned it off. It has not aged well.
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Jun 10, 2015 04:54
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Periodiko posted:I think the criticisms of Tarantino being a mere creator of pastiches literally has everything to do with Kill Bill part 1, where it's the closest to being true. I mean, you've got Reservoir Dogs, followed by Pulp Fiction, followed by Jackie Brown - that's an unbelievable streak. Then Kill Bill came out. And then Grindhouse/Deathproof as a pseudo-followup. It's too juicy a target to say that somehow those first three films were flukes and that he'd since devolved. jesus christ those would have to be pretty humongous "flukes"
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Jun 10, 2015 13:40
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I remember finding the conversations between the characters unbearable in Death Proof at the theater, but being fine with it watching at home. I think a big part of it is having watched a ridiculous over the top movie and a bunch of stupid, ridiculous over the top trailers, before seeing a bunch of people sitting around a table talking about things you would try to steer the conversation from in a real conversation.
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Jun 10, 2015 16:00
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Did QT plan for Death Proof to follow Planet Terror? Because he loves to mess with expectation and emotion, I could see him anticipating the boredom/confusion with Proof's slower pace.
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Jun 10, 2015 17:09
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Call Me Charlie posted:I can't remember who said it but Grindhouse was great because Planet Terror was what people thought exploitation movies were and Death Proof was the real deal. It's uneven but that end car chase was masterful. Well, Robert Rodriguez was one of those people. I've mentioned it before but at a press conference Rodriguez had a lot of trouble defining what Grindhouse actually was as a genre. He started to fumbling an answer about mashing genres together and Harry Knowles, of all people, stepped in to give an actual answer. Planet Terror was fine, but it's pretty much no different from anything that Rodriguez puts out anyway. Deathproof is great from a feminist point of view, even though it makes one pretty big questionable choice (Leaving the cheerleader to her fate). And man that final chase is fantastic.
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Jun 10, 2015 17:13
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If she is anything like her friends, that cheerleader can handle herself.
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Jun 10, 2015 17:23
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Yeah, when they come back at the end isn't she fine anyway? Or am I misremembering?
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Jun 10, 2015 17:31
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The last shot you see of the cheerleader is her gulping (the sound effect and the swallow gesture, not actually swallowing anything) as she's about to be apparently raped.
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Jun 10, 2015 19:06
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Darko posted:The last shot you see of the cheerleader is her gulping (the sound effect and the swallow gesture, not actually swallowing anything) as she's about to be apparently raped. Rosario Dawson and QT got into a big argument over that scene. A lot of people have tried to defend that scene saying "if she is anything like her friends, she will be fine". But she isn't really like the other three girls. She is kind of the odd girl out/ stick in the mud. QT has a very dark mind and I don't think we are supposed to assume anything other than her being raped.
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Jun 10, 2015 22:08
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MacheteZombie posted:Kill Bill was really good at convincing my friends that samurai and kung fu movies are in fact amazing. Yeah, the Kill Bill films do not move me at all. The whole thing just feels empty and pointless. I wonder what made Quentin lose his emotional core? If you start with True Romance through Jackie Brown you see stylized and heightened reality with a solid base and emotional core. The world in these films feels solid, but a little askew. Starting with KB nothing feels real or has any weight to it. Even Django didn't affect me as much as I thought it would have and I am black. I am very excited for the Hateful Eight though. It seems like a much smaller and more character focused film, and I heard it's really nasty.
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Jun 10, 2015 22:15
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All I took from the cheerleader scene is that she was left behind with a creep. It's going to be super weird and awkward for her. The redneck has shown no inclination towards violence. I thought it was more of a statement about leaving behind traditional gender roles but nope it's gotta be rape. That's some Tipper Gore levels of reaching to find something offensive.
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Jun 11, 2015 02:46
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The Last Gentleman posted:Yeah, the Kill Bill films do not move me at all. The whole thing just feels empty and pointless. I wonder what made Quentin lose his emotional core? If you start with True Romance through Jackie Brown you see stylized and heightened reality with a solid base and emotional core. The world in these films feels solid, but a little askew. Starting with KB nothing feels real or has any weight to it. Even Django didn't affect me as much as I thought it would have and I am black. I am very excited for the Hateful Eight though. It seems like a much smaller and more character focused film, and I heard it's really nasty. I mentioned it before, but I truly feel that the lukewarm public reaction to Jackie Brown hurt Tarantino in some way. The movie has a lot of heart, more than any other he's made. I believe he put more of himself, not just "things and movies he likes", but his actual self, into Jackie Brown. When the audience wasn't really there (or when they were they, they just kept saying "this isn't Pulp Fiction") I think it affected him on a personal level. I think the fact that it took several years from Jackie Brown to Kill Bill (by far his longest gap) attests to this. I think Tarantino himself sort of nailed the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=258fDJ7EvVU&t=1531s Started here for context, but he gets to the point about a minute later, and it continues on for a bit. I think he did get out of his funk, but I think the clear shift has to be due to JB. zandert33 fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jun 11, 2015 |
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Jun 11, 2015 03:11
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SlipUp posted:All I took from the cheerleader scene is that she was left behind with a creep. It's going to be super weird and awkward for her. The redneck has shown no inclination towards violence. I thought it was more of a statement about leaving behind traditional gender roles but nope it's gotta be rape. That's some Tipper Gore levels of reaching to find something offensive. *gulp*
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Jun 11, 2015 03:45
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SlipUp posted:All I took from the cheerleader scene is that she was left behind with a creep. It's going to be super weird and awkward for her. The redneck has shown no inclination towards violence. I thought it was more of a statement about leaving behind traditional gender roles but nope it's gotta be rape. That's some Tipper Gore levels of reaching to find something offensive. Yeah, a woman left alone with a creep, a gulp and a fade to black. Maybe he's just gonna show her his stamp collection.
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Jun 11, 2015 19:17
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Tarantino is a good film maker most of the time but Inglorious Basterds is one of the worst films over ever seen. Some of the performances are good, some of the scenes are individually well directed, but overall its just a long, self indulgent, excessively boring and profoundly stupid mess. I remember reading interviews about this new World War II spaghetti western / heist movie Tarantino was making and thinking it sounded like a lot of fun. Then years later the movie come out and turns out to be a dull, meandering tribute to German cinema or something with an excessively stupid plot, a weird lack of focus on its own central story line, and a dumb climax that inexplicably achieved critical acclaim.
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Jun 11, 2015 19:50
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Helsing posted:Tarantino is a good film maker most of the time but Inglorious Basterds is one of the worst films over ever seen. Some of the performances are good, some of the scenes are individually well directed, but overall its just a long, self indulgent, excessively boring and profoundly stupid mess. You have seen an astoundingly low number of films if Inglourious Basterds is one of the worst you've ever watched.
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Jun 11, 2015 19:52
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The only part of Basterds that stands out as indulgent is the scene where Fassbender's character is introduced.
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Jun 11, 2015 19:59
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