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opus111 posted:glad that this is turning into the uk megathread. the UK megathread sucks rear end.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:34
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there is nothing inherently wrong with limiting immigration. the hosed up part is that labor is extrmely constrained in its movement, but capital can go wherever the gently caress he wants and do as it pleases. this is the hosed up part. if you want free trade then we should also have free immigration and anyone who disagrees with this is a loving retard
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Jun 23, 2015 00:36
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babypolis posted:there is nothing inherently wrong with limiting immigration. the hosed up part is that labor is extrmely constrained in its movement, but capital can go wherever the gently caress he wants and do as it pleases. this is the hosed up part. if you want free trade then we should also have free immigration and anyone who disagrees with this is a loving retard I was going to write an agreeing post but realised this basically summed it up, so emptyquotin this. edit: gently caress
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Jun 23, 2015 00:42
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babypolis posted:there is nothing inherently wrong with limiting immigration. the hosed up part is that labor is extrmely constrained in its movement, but capital can go wherever the gently caress he wants and do as it pleases. this is the hosed up part. if you want free trade then we should also have free immigration and anyone who disagrees with this is a loving retard
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Jun 23, 2015 00:44
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babypolis posted:there is nothing inherently wrong with limiting immigration. the hosed up part is that labor is extrmely constrained in its movement, but capital can go wherever the gently caress he wants and do as it pleases. this is the hosed up part. if you want free trade then we should also have free immigration and anyone who disagrees with this is a loving retard There is nothing inherently wrong with limited immigration. Here's what is wrong with unlimited immigration: this funny myth that all immigrants want to come over to make a better life for themselves, because all cultures are born equal and all have work ethics. Funny thing: they don't. Now me, taxpayer in the UK, have this thing where I believe the government should look after my interests first and then the interests of everybody else on the planet. So what labour did was "by all means do come over cause our population is aging and we need young hands to work and pay taxes". except for the part where instead of people coming over to work and pay taxes we get a hole bunch of people who run on the formula: Family of 7 in which only dad works ( if he does) and mom stays home and raises the 5 kids on various benefits. Now of those kids? They will be married off to their cousins back in Pakistan or whatever then come back to have another 7 peeps family in which only one works.And so on and so on and lo and behold the non EU immigration in the UK ends up at taking 200 million a year more in benefits than they pay in taxes. Not to mention the part where they have little to no interraction with the rest of the society, and that's how UK welfare pays to raise ISIS warriors. Now please note that I have nothing against immigration, nor against welfare. But I'm a big loving believer in the social contract and all that. So see, in theory the government's measure is not per se a bad idea. The number is stupid. making it i don't know, 20k would be more like it, since the state has invested nothing in training immigrants so they don't actually go into the system owing money. Let's say that if you have a modicum of qualification even if you start in a low office job at like 15k, in 6 years you'll get to 20k a year. Now add to that the fact that you can't bring your foreign spouse in the UK if you don't make at least £18.6k/years and that starts to make some sense.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:55
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its extremely infuriating to see people who benefited from destroying the livelyhood of others go on to complain that those same people who are now disenfranchised and are forced to move somewhere else are taking their jobs
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Jun 23, 2015 00:56
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ChlorophileAddict posted:There is nothing inherently wrong with limited immigration. thanks for compeltely missing my point and then writing a bunch of words about god knows what bullshit
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Jun 23, 2015 00:57
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The UK should just switch to a system of government based on motorcycle riding judges who serve as judge, jury and executioners.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:01
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etalian posted:The UK should just switch to a system of government based on motorcycle riding judges who serve as judge, jury and executioners. brb asking my boyfriend to pronounce "Judge Dredd"
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Jun 23, 2015 01:02
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ChlorophileAddict posted:There is nothing inherently wrong with limited immigration. 10/10. solid troll right here because this could of straight up come out of a daily mail article given how inaccurate it is. It's a provable statistic that immigrants on the whole bring in more money than they take out of the system ( note this is a UCL study reported on by the guardian so please don't accuse it of being some lefty conspiracy ). What you've said about "lol one dad earns just over the amount needed to live here so he has 20 kids laffo and claims benefits" could equally apply to British families living in old coal mining towns or industrial centres where unemployment is sky high because theres no jobs, so I fail to see how somehow stating it's only "them furreners" that this applies to is a moot point. Also, fyi, claiming that all benefit claimers who happen to be of indian descent are somehow "funding ISIS" is pretty much the dumbest statement i've ever heard and I recommend you say that to a cop so that they can arrest you for inciting racial hatred, thanks.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:07
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babypolis posted:its extremely infuriating to see people who benefited from destroying the livelyhood of others go on to complain that those same people who are now disenfranchised and are forced to move somewhere else are taking their jobs
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Jun 23, 2015 01:08
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ArbitraryC posted:The fact of the matter is driving wages and benefits down by allowing corporations to exploit global economic inequality is a lose lose situation for everybody but the elite. When the masks fall down in an airplane you're supposed to make sure you have your poo poo together before trying to help other people and I think the same policy should apply here. We need to essentially collectively bargain as a country to enforce fair wages and benefits and we can't do that as long as we allow the exploitation of poor people around the world. Can't, unions got hosed over by every government since thatcher and now every time they strike to maybe earn a rise of inflation this year maybe the companies go "but, this isn't fair, our profits dropped 4% from 221 million last year so we have to cut back :<" and paint it like somehow this is a problem and the unions are at fault.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:10
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the UK is doing the same thing to itself Russia did to itself in the 90s albeit slower and thus the consequences are harder to notice soon enough they will start giving the barbarians citizenship and then what will be left of the proud empire?!?
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Jun 23, 2015 01:19
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ArbitraryC posted:The fact of the matter is driving wages and benefits down by allowing corporations to exploit global economic inequality is a lose lose situation for everybody but the elite. When the masks fall down in an airplane you're supposed to make sure you have your poo poo together before trying to help other people and I think the same policy should apply here. We need to essentially collectively bargain as a country to enforce fair wages and benefits and we can't do that as long as we allow the exploitation of poor people around the world. you make it sound like a question of moral or ethics but its really a question of economics. when a corporation can just pack up its poo poo and go set up in some third world hellhole as soon as they detect the faintest whiff of a loss workers have no bargaining power and goverment becomes all about licking corporate rear end so they throw some scraps your way
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Jun 23, 2015 01:20
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babypolis posted:you make it sound like a question of moral or ethics but its really a question of economics. when a corporation can just pack up its poo poo and go set up in some third world hellhole as soon as they detect the faintest whiff of a loss workers have no bargaining power and goverment becomes all about licking corporate rear end so they throw some scraps your way but Russia's economy is doing relatively fine despite saying gently caress you to a lot of big food corps maybe being rash as gently caress pays off after all!?!?
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Jun 23, 2015 01:26
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ChlorophileAddict posted:the obvious solution to Britain's problems: this is stupid. we live in a democracy and a big enough number of the population sympathise with conservative views to make those views relevant.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:32
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ChlorophileAddict posted:the UK megathread sucks rear end. agreed
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Jun 23, 2015 01:32
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babypolis posted:there is nothing inherently wrong with limiting immigration. the hosed up part is that labor is extrmely constrained in its movement, but capital can go wherever the gently caress he wants and do as it pleases. this is the hosed up part. if you want free trade then we should also have free immigration and anyone who disagrees with this is a loving retard agreed
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Jun 23, 2015 01:32
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opus111 posted:this is stupid. we live in a democracy and a big enough number of the population sympathise with conservative views to make those views relevant. "democracy works really well in the 21st century" - baby boomers
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Jun 23, 2015 01:33
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Drone_Fragger posted:10/10. solid troll right here because this could of straight up come out of a daily mail article given how inaccurate it is. It's a provable statistic that immigrants on the whole bring in more money than they take out of the system ( note this is a UCL study reported on by the guardian so please don't accuse it of being some lefty conspiracy ). What you've said about "lol one dad earns just over the amount needed to live here so he has 20 kids laffo and claims benefits" could equally apply to British families living in old coal mining towns or industrial centres where unemployment is sky high because theres no jobs, so I fail to see how somehow stating it's only "them furreners" that this applies to is a moot point. That study showed that over 10 years 2001-2011 EU immigrants put in 2 billion a year more than they took out in benefits, while non EU immigrants put in 200 mil a year less than what they took out in benefits. I suggest you read all of it not just what the Guardian shows. It also shows that Brits take out 500 million a year more than they pay into the kitty- mainly due to pensions. Also I haven't said anywhere anything about anyone of indian descend funding ISIS. What I said is that UK welfare pays to raise ISIS warriors. Different thing. Insofar, most of the people we know to have gone over to Syria are people living on welfare- most recently the Dawood sisters. The statistics on the Muslim community were raised by the Muslim Council of Britain http://www.mcb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/MCBCensusReport_2015.pdf PS: I'm a EU immigrant 13 years in the UK. This isn't me being against immigration. This is me being against unrestricted non contributing immigration. There's a difference.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:34
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opus111 posted:this is stupid. we live in a democracy and a big enough number of the population sympathise with conservative views to make those views relevant. 24%
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Jun 23, 2015 01:35
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Lichy posted:"democracy works really well in the 21st century" - baby boomers nobody's opinion on democracy changes the fact that the uk is a democracy.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:35
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opus111 posted:nobody's opinion on democracy changes the fact that the uk is a democracy. The UK is not a democracy since not everybody is equal in front of the law. FPTP is hugely undemocratic.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:37
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maybe if everyone got implanted with a really painful electro shocker that put you into a world of pain and agony if you didn't visit the inside of an election booth during elections mass democracy would actually be a viable system instead of the retards-voting-for-corpocracy-politicians shitfest it is now but I'm being v positive about humanity now
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Jun 23, 2015 01:38
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opus111 posted:nobody's opinion on democracy changes the fact that the uk is a democracy. UKs actually an oligarchy bro but don't stop believing
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Jun 23, 2015 01:39
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Gas all British and let the muzzies and Africans have their land
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Jun 23, 2015 01:39
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this is like when that goon said that all working class men are liberals lol. i dont know where some people get the idea that 99% of their country has the same views as them, millions of people in the uk are anti-eu, anti-immigration and want to see institutions like the NHS opened up to the market.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:41
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Lichy posted:maybe if everyone got implanted with a really painful electro shocker that put you into a world of pain and agony if you didn't visit the inside of an election booth during elections mass democracy would actually be a viable system instead of the retards-voting-for-corpocracy-politicians shitfest it is now actually quite a bit of people showed up at the last elections. However the tory gerrymandering/changing the electoral law on the stealth so many people were not aware they had to re register/FPTP ended up with the 24% party taking the majority... while 1.2 million votes get 50+ seats in Scotland but only 1 in England... and as it turns out- whichis funny- 4.4 million UKIP voters= 1 MP seat.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:41
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Lichy posted:UKs actually an oligarchy bro but don't stop believing lol no surely as a russian you know one when you see one.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:41
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I mean that non ironically too. Kill all British people. Put the royal families head on stakes and turn Sheffield and south Hampton into concentration camps and have all natural British citizens murdered.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:41
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Return Of JimmyJars posted:I mean that non ironically too. Kill all British people. Put the royal families head on stakes and turn Sheffield and south Hampton into concentration camps and have all natural British citizens murdered. uk megathread is in your other tab bro.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:42
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opus111 posted:uk megathread is in your other tab bro. that would be an awful waste of stakes
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Jun 23, 2015 01:44
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opus111 posted:lol no surely as a russian you know one when you see one. the UK oligarchy is just more open for joining than the Russian one - you've gotta have loads of cash is the only requirement
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Jun 23, 2015 01:51
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e: lichy scores double
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Jun 23, 2015 01:51
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Lichy posted:there's a lot of similarity between what London is doing to the uk right now and what Moscow has been doing to Russia for a while also the two oligarchies overlap a lot
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Jun 23, 2015 01:52
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its funny that the biggest whiners about the eu are the brits when they got a much nicer deal than most of europe. at least the uk got to keep their currency and was able to use all their finance money to screw around the rest of europe. its not like you are greece where joining the eu meant opening your country to being ransacked by german and british banks that would throw the whole country to the wolves as soon as poo poo started going bad
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Jun 23, 2015 02:00
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babypolis posted:its funny that the biggest whiners about the eu are the brits when they got a much nicer deal than most of europe. at least the uk got to keep their currency and was able to use all their finance money to screw around the rest of europe. its not like you are greece where joining the eu meant opening your country to being ransacked by german and british banks that would throw the whole country to the wolves as soon as poo poo started going bad you may want to read a bit more about Greece, seriously
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Jun 23, 2015 02:02
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babypolis posted:its funny that the biggest whiners about the eu are the brits when they got a much nicer deal than most of europe. at least the uk got to keep their currency and was able to use all their finance money to screw around the rest of europe. its not like you are greece where joining the eu meant opening your country to being ransacked by german and british banks that would throw the whole country to the wolves as soon as poo poo started going bad actually its really annoying and embarrassing, the eu is good and little englanders are idiots.
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Jun 23, 2015 02:03
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ChlorophileAddict posted:you may want to read a bit more about Greece, seriously i think it is you, frriend, who should read up on the issue, and stop buying into the retarded narrative that countries have to balance their checkbook just like a household dodes
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Jun 23, 2015 02:05
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opus111 posted:actually its really annoying and embarrassing, the eu is good and little englanders are idiots. The EU is work in progress but overall the advantages > disadvantages. The Little Englanders... they don't even like the non little englanders . Or the Scots. Or the irish. Or the Welsh. Luckily in my experience they are actually a minoriy restricted to the south east of England- pretty much every where else I've been the Brits are pretty decent folk.
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Jun 23, 2015 02:06
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